Batman Begins Upon repeated viewings, this is the best movie I've EVER seen.

[Visceral]

The editing kinda ticks me off too.... but ultimately, that's one of only a FEW flaws for me when it comes to this film. ALL movies have flaws, even "The Godfather", which is so goddamn precious to everyone (not me). Compared to all the other Bat-movies, this one actually has less flaws (in my opinion), which makes it the best one.

Yes, it is my favorite movie of all time, and you can call me a complete moron, and that I haven't seen alot of movies..... but the truth is, I have. I've seen so many movies in my day (along with my best friend; we've stayed at the theatre and have seen multiple movies in one day, just for the fun of it, and we've done all-night marathons just because we could)... and I'm telling you, unless it's extremely obscure and nobody has seen it.... I probably have. Doctor Zhivago? Check. The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly? Check? One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest? Check? The Exorcist? Check. Scarface, Goodfellas, On Golden Pond, Kramer vs. Kramer? Check check check check.

Now, that includes "The Godfather". I've seen it. More than once. And honestly, I'm bored to tears with it everytime. That's not because I don't understand the movie-making process (I make movies myself, with my friends, and most of them suck, but that doesn't mean I don't know a thing or two). I'm a writer, I understand the writing process, and I've read the Godfather novel by Mario Puzo... and I kind of enjoyed it, because I enjoy reading. The problem with the movie, to ME, is that I can't relate to it. A movie needs to get me hooked right away, or it's pointless to me. I can't relate to that movie. I can't imagine being the son of a mob boss, who talks with cotton in his mouth. It doesn't make sense to me. It's very foreign, and there's nothing there that I can identify with....so OF COURSE I'm not gonna like it! It's not because I'm A.D.D. (I'm not), and it's not because I don't get it (I do), it's just that I can't ENJOY it.

Now, Batman Begins is a different story. I can relate to it, more so than other movies I've seen. It's got the realism factor (although most of the situations are silly and over-the-top; they are presented in a realistic fashion that makes me believe that "Yes, maybe this could actually happen in the real world... MAYBE). I can picture myself in young Bruce's shoes, watching my parents get killed. I can picture myself wanting revenge for so long, being afraid of something (bats), wanting to take matters into my own hands. These are REAL issues people deal with: Loss, Vengeance, Grief, Fear. It constantly takes me back to Shakespeare, which I have studied for 3 years now. Shakespeare wrote about such subjects 500 years ago, and many people of that Elizabethan era said that they wouldn't stand the test of time, but yet here we are 500 years later, and people still read the Bard. It's because you can relate to it. You might not understand what the hell is being said in the dialogue (and I myself have trouble even 3 years later), but when you see a stage production (done accurately), you don't need to hear a damn thing. The EMOTIONS are there. You can SEE what is happening.... It's not about crappy dialogue or editing that is too fast; it's about using your OWN imagination, and filling in the gaps.

Batman reminds me of a classic Shakespearean tale, more than any other comic book character. Not only that, but he is my life-long hero. My idol. Sure, just this fact alone would make "Batman Begins" my favorite movie, because... it's BATMAN, so of course I'm gonna love it, because I'm watching my childhood hero on the big screen...

... But I did not like the first 4 movies. If I had to pick my favorite from the old ones, it's definitely "Batman Returns", because although we barely saw Batman himself, it dealt with psychology, character development (Selina, at least), and emotions (musically, and on screen) beautifully. The other ones are a sad attempt. Jack is always Jack to me, he doesn't change; he just puts make-up on, and he's "Jack with make-up". The two Schumacher films... well, I won't even mention them.

Another thing you have to look at it... is the heavy amount of pressure "Batman Begins" had in 2005, and even before that when we started hyping it in 2003. We didn't know what to expect. We got a British director who only made two movies beforehand (which were both excellent, mind you), and a lead actor who was Welsh, whom we only really knew from his performance in "American Psycho"... which was dark, but not very Batman-ish. Then we get a rusty Bat-logo unlike we've ever seen before, and then we see pictures of a massive tank with huge-ass wheels that we're supposed to believe is "the Batmobile."

I was scared in 2003. This is my hero... They were gonna f*** it all up AGAIN.

I mean, "Batman & Robin" came out in 1997, and it pretty much MURDERED the Batman franchise. The mere mention of Batman or a new Batman movie only made people slap their heads and say "Oh, brother." It was the "Spider-Man 3" of the late 90's, only we didn't have internet that we have today, so massive amounts of people bashing it in a forum was impossible. But I knew what everyone was thinking anyway, and I was scared by one little thought: Maybe people weren't ready for another Batman movie. It had been 8 years, just under a decade of jokes about nipples and buttocks and Arnold's acting, and Alicia's chubbiness (although I never agreed; I think she was hot in that movie). "Batman" as a whole was just a big joke. Even my dead said when the first "Begins" trailer came out: "Oh sh**, another one? Why can't they just let it die?"

And then it came out, and it was everything that I wanted it to be. Hell, I cried. I'll admit it. I cried. Call me emo. Call me an obsessive fanboy. I don't give a damn. I cried. To me, it was amazing. I'll never forget the experience of being in that theatre, watching those bats fly across the screen. I knew right off the bat.... this was it. This is what I had been waiting for. This is what Burton and Schumacher couldn't achieve. This was the whole reason why I loved Batman all my life, while everyone else made fun of him since 1997. This is why stuck with him, why I read the comics, why I watched TAS, why I collected action figures as child. It was all leading up to this moment, in 2005. Me and the silver screen, mano a mano. And the faith I had in my childhood hero was fully restored. It was like a "personal moment" in my life.

Having said that.... Do you really think "The Godfather" could ever match "Batman Begins" for me?? NO WAY IN HELL.

And the fact that they could bring Batman back to his true form after only 8 years since the monstrosity before it (aka, B&R), proves to me that this movie is the real deal. I mean, "Superman Returns" had 15 years behind it, and they had so much time to get it right, and to bring the Man of Steel back, but they failed miserably, in my honest opinion. That movie left me unbelievably dissatisfied.

So, "Batman Begins" is my favorite movie of all time, NOT because I don't know anything about movies, and NOT because I don't see enough movies.... it's because "Batman Begins" is personal to me. It was a childhood dream brought to life.

I don't really want to argue about it. You can call me a moron. I don't want to pick fights... but if you want to, by all means, go ahead and humor yourself. It won't change my opinion. This is the best movie I've ever seen.

And for the sake of conversation, allow me to show my TOP 10 list of all-time favorites:

1. Batman Begins
2. Heat (directed by Michael Mann... Al Pacino and Robert DeNiro)
3. The Shawshank Redemption (Stephen King is one of my favorite writers, and his novella was a true departure from what he usually does. I remember being concerned with how this would transfer onto film... and I happen to think this is THE best movie ever made; not my favorite of all time, but definitely the BEST ever made. See it if you haven't).
4. Goodfellas (Scorsese's best. I don't care what anyone says. "The Departed" has nothing on this; it should've got the oscar in '90.)
5. The Wizard of Oz (another childhood thing, but that can be saved for another day)
6. Closer (a movie directed by Mike Nichols, one of my favorite filmmakers)
7. Vanilla Sky (I don’t like Tom Cruise, and I don’t like Cameron Crowe – too “artsy” for me – but this movie really clicked with me).
8. Vertigo (Hitchcock's true masterpiece, I feel.... Another one of my favorite directors).
9. Wolf (an obscure movie that nobody saw, once again directed by Mike Nichols.. Jack Nicholson plays a werewolf, if you can recall)
10. Reservoir Dogs (in my opinion, better than Pulp Fiction)

Honorable mention: Braveheart. It just kicks ass. 'Nuff said.

As far as more modern movies are concerned, I think "Casino Royale", "The Departed", and "The Prestige" are ALL destined to become classics (I think they already are, but whatever).

No matrix? hmmm.

still a good list, try watching the original vanilla sky, the mexican version

 

[Cain]

The same way you find BB superior and more relatable and enjoyable to those other films you listed, I find On The Waterfront, North By Northwest, Raging Bull, Terminator 2, The Crow along with plenty of other films superior to Batman Begins. Batman is my favorite character in all of fiction not just comics but to be honest I'm not sure if BB makes my top 25 maybe the top 30 but it's themes are themes I've seen explored better elsewhere. I respect your explanation though definitely just goes to show how much personal preference is the key factor in these type of things. I've never seen anybody mention Wolf like ever lol didn't think that movie was that great myself but James Spader was great in that movie.

 

[Jerry!]

I'll admit, The Illusionist's plot was no better than The Prestige's - it may have even been worse - it did have several key elements that The Prestige did not.

Firstly, I felt, it made it's characters much more interesting. It wasn't just a singleminded obsession for everyone in the cast - no, every character had his or her own psychology, and their own reason for doing everything they did. And to observe The Prince's egotistical insanity in contrast to Eisenheim's multi-faceted genius with his own emotional needs and (at the beginning) emptiness and even a touch of obsession, with the Police captain's confliction between serving his own political interests and serving his own, almost childlike, fascination with Eisenheim's magic was extremely interesting.

On top of this was also a rather intelligent sociological study on the society the characters had lived in. The polarization between rich and poor, and how horrible that pretty much everyone in society - even someone as powerful as the Prince lost his sanity, his humanity, due to the importance society foolishly placed on himself and his family. You compare the film's premise to Romeo and Juliet, but this is an aspect that's decidedly different; there wasn't this economic-based divide among the characters. And there certainly wasn't such an in-depth display of how pointless division affects everyone negatively - not just two young lovers.

Which brings me to the love story. Yeah, say what you will about it - too Romeo and Juliet-esque, too girly for the manly, comic book reading adolescents we are, one thing cannot be argued; it sent a sharply positive and uplifting message about not just love, but just what the human heart and mind is capable of when it needs it, when it wants it. It was the story of how one brilliant man could manipulate everything - everything that was wrong with the world - just to get the one thing that he wants. That's not about love, that's about determination, and, in a way, power and strength.

That's markedly different from The Prestige's highly cynical and negative outlook of the human mind and of obsession. And how really weak and powerless human beings are to their base desires. Which, there's nothing wrong with that - y'know, I certainly enjoyed it - but, myself, I'm not a cynical man. I'm not a depressed man. I believe in a lot in the human mind, and I loved to see it in all of it's greatness in The Illusionist, rather than at its lowest point in The Prestige.

Lastly, I loved The Illusionist's cinematography and it's art direction. The director seemed to soak in everything about the time period and paint a beauty visual picture of the world we were traveling into. There were frames that seemed almost like art it was so well done. With The Prestige - as with all of Nolan's movies - I feel he chooses to downplay his environments rather than highlight them, and that, I think, is never as good as seeing something, see a world, in all of its splender and and visual flavor.

So yeah, that's why I like The Illusionist better. I won't even go into the fact that both Ed Norton and Paul Giamatti are fantastic actors to watch and - IMO - easily hold their own with most of The Prestige's cast.

Yeah, I actually agree with most of what you said, and its not that I hate the love story with the Illusionist or the movie itself, its just kind of seemed like, "I've seen it before" type of thing with me when I watched it. I haven't really seen a movie like the Prestige before, it almost makes your own mind betray itself, you want to believe something, when you know and the movie actually tells you not to. But at the end you still want to.

Ed Norton should have had more lines in the movie, and Paul Giamatti was good as usual, but its difficult to compare their roles with the kind of (dual) roles that Jackman and Bale had to play. Its really amazing that in almost every scene in the Prestige with Bale in it, there is a hint dropped at what is actually happening, and that most people don't even have the faintest clue, even though the very first thing that the movie tells you is to look closely at everything And whats equally as impressive is how simple it all is when you go back and watch it again.

I do agree that the art direction and visualization was better in the Illusionist, but something that wasn't really said in the Prestige, but rather Nolan mentioned it in the Bonus features, was that he never intended the Prestige to be a period film, that it wasn't just constrained to one type, or genre of movie. Its just difficult to compare the two movies, the one thing they have in common is magic, but other than that, they are completely different.

 

[CConn]

Well, he should've made it a period film. It would've improved it.

I'd say Bale's performance was the best of anybody. Jackman...wasn't bad at all, but didn't quite leave any effect on me like Bale, Norton, and Giamatti did.

Honestly, I think people overstate the complexity of The Prestiges plot. I mean, I got the "twist" pretty much as soon as Fallon was shown on screen. Besides being told out of chronological order, it really wasn't that hard to grasp -- I'm not trying to bash it though; it is a very good film.

 

[Jerry!]

Ehh, I don't know if it would have improved it, because you have that sci-fi factor with Tesla and the machine. I agree, at first the Prestige seems like a complicated movie, but like it says, once you know the secret, its simple. Most people don't see that, myself included, I didn't really think that Fallon was the "twist" until the scene with him and Bale in the prison for the last time. Honestly, I think you are kind of short changing Jackman, he had 3 very different roles to play in that movie, and each one he really couldn't have done better, and in the case of the drunken stage double he was a good comic relief in the movie. Jackman blowing a kiss to Michael Caine after he screws up the trick still gets me laughing my ass off. And I'm not bashing the Illusionist either it was a good movie, its just that between those 2 movies, I will remember the Prestige years and years from now, where as the Illusionist was just another movie I saw.

 

[CConn]

And for me, it's the opposite.

Although, unbiasly speaking, I really don't think either will be remembered all that well. The Departed, however, already seems to be considered a classic by, well, everyone.

 

[Cain]

And for me, it's the opposite.

Although, unbiasly speaking, I really don't think either will be remembered all that well. The Departed, however, already seems to be considered a classic by, well, everyone.

Yeah out of last year's ffeatures I see that one and Pan's Labarynth being two films that will be discussed by most avid film fans for decades to come. As much as I liked The Prestige (enough to own the 2 disc edition) I don't even see myself watching it time and time again within the next few years let alone anybody else. I still haven't seen The Illusionist so I can't comment on that one.

 

[BubbaGump]

Batman Begins is my favorite movie. But is it the best ever made? Nah. Everyone has their own, unique favorite film. Now, the Academy of Motion Pictures blah blah and other film institutes probably have similar Top Tens (with the Godfather, Citizen Kane, Gone w/ the Wind topping the lists), but what's so great about personal preference is that everyone's taste in movies is unique. My favorite films range from BB to B89 to Finding Nemo to King Kong to LOTR to Phantom Menace (yes, you heard me right). But films which I consider masterpieces are the Godfather, Citizen Kane, Casablanca, and Pulp Fiction. But preference varies and that's what's so great with liking movies BECAUSE you like them, not due to the fact that they're critically acclaimed.

 

[Keyser Soze]

I'm not going to call "Batman Begins" the best film ever made. There are plenty of classics that are superior films. But in terms of personal preference, "Batman Begins" currently ranks quite highly on my list of favourite films. No one person can really say what the BEST films of all time are, and personal favourites are really too subjective for anyone to say they're right or wrong.

For the sake of reference, here's my current top ten. Though be warned: the list is ever-changing:

1. Jaws
2. The Usual Suspects
3. Mulholland Drive
4. Magnolia
5. The Silence of the Lambs
6. Pulp Fiction
7. Chinatown
8. Brazil
9. Halloween
10. Batman Begins

 

[ThaMuzicAddict]

Anyone who thinks Batman Begins is the best movie ever can't be that much of a movie buff. This is my favorite movie, but it's not a cinematic landmark.


It's also not that impressive to be able to quote/reference major movies that have come out in the last 10 years.

 

[Castlewood]

I.
Never.
Said.
It.
Was.
The.
Best.
Movie.
Ever.
Made.

It.
Is.
Based.
On.
My.
Personal.
Tastes.


.... does that help?

 

[Comic Book Boy]

I.
Never.
Said.
It.
Was.
The.
Best.
Movie.
Ever.
Made.

It.
Is.
Based.
On.
My.
Personal.
Tastes.


.... does that help?

Apparently not, because people keep bashing you for it.

I did it myself a couple pages back.

Can I do it again?

 

[DieSmiling]

I agree with almost everything you said. I wouldn't call BB my favorite all time movie, but it's probably top ten.

Also, saying anyone outshined Bale or took over the movie is ridiculous. This, moreso than any other Bat movie by far, is all about Bruce/Batman. The only character that even comes close to stealing the spotlight it Neeson as Ra's, particularly early, during training (where he's doing all the talking and Bruce is just listening).

 

[breyfogle_rules]

Rewatched it recently and finally "got it". I liked it MUCH more on repeated viewing.

Why?

Because I simply couldnt get by the giant, black gumby costume Bale was wearing. That aside, the writing is CLEARLY world class. This was at least as much Jonathan Nolans film as it was Chris'.

The big thing I noticed this time was the idea that Scarecrow turns into a full-on supervillain at the end of the film because he goes crazy on his own dose.
It makes perfect sense. Next time around we'll see him in full gear, 24-7.

It just tickles me silly when I think how clever this movie is.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Jonathan didn't have anything to do with Batman Begins.

 

[El Payaso]

Rewatched it recently and finally "got it". I liked it MUCH more on repeated viewing.

Why?

Because I simply couldnt get by the giant, black gumby costume Bale was wearing. That aside, the writing is CLEARLY world class. This was at least as much Jonathan Nolans film as it was Chris'.

The big thing I noticed this time was the idea that Scarecrow turns into a full-on supervillain at the end of the film because he goes crazy on his own dose.
It makes perfect sense. Next time around we'll see him in full gear, 24-7.

It just tickles me silly when I think how clever this movie is.

Tha bad thing about it is that we know now Gotham doesn't even need Batman to get rid of that villiain. Any girl can buy a tazer and be a superheroine.

 

[Jerry!]

Fair enough. But what about the mob of people and criminals that were intoxicated with the fear poison in the Narrows? It brings another purpose for there being a Batman and him being needed in Gotham.

 

[El Payaso]

Rewatched it recently and finally "got it". I liked it MUCH more on repeated viewing.

Why?

Because I simply couldnt get by the giant, black gumby costume Bale was wearing. That aside, the writing is CLEARLY world class. This was at least as much Jonathan Nolans film as it was Chris'.

The big thing I noticed this time was the idea that Scarecrow turns into a full-on supervillain at the end of the film because he goes crazy on his own dose.
It makes perfect sense. Next time around we'll see him in full gear, 24-7.

It just tickles me silly when I think how clever this movie is.

Tha bad thing about it is that we know now Gotham doesn't even need Batman to get rid of that villiain. Any girl can buy a tazer and be a superheroine.

 

[Jerry!]

Did you time travel over my response?

 

[El Payaso]

Wtf

 

[El Payaso]

Fair enough. But what about the mob of people and criminals that were intoxicated with the fear poison in the Narrows? It brings another purpose for there being a Batman and him being needed in Gotham.

Sure thing. That will assure that Batman will have a lot of purpose in the following months. My point was the lack of further purpose of Scarecrow.

 

[Jerry!]

I disagree with that as well. Because without him, then the set up for the entire crazed maniacs roaming Gotham City and making it out of control for any police force to contain is no longer there.

 

[Mr.E.Nygma]

Did you time travel over my response?

OMG!!!! I'm putting this in my sig, quoting you of course!

 

[El Payaso]

I disagree with that as well. Because without him, then the set up for the entire crazed maniacs roaming Gotham City and making it out of control for any police force to contain is no longer there.

Again, further purpose. He had one in BB, I'm talking from now on.

 

[Jerry!]

That doesn't really bother me. Not all villains are threatening physically, it would be unrealistic to make it so with the Scarecrow character. Its not perfect the way he was "ushered" out of the movie, but it just leaves more for the second movie to finish up on.