vegata( when he first came to earth) vs superman

[MSGohan]

Gokou is cooler than Superman ever will be -- And probobly just Prime and Pre-crisis would take on the Z-fightier´s.

The Goku we in Manga seems a little crappy, because his strengh and speed never is stated as definite, and when there is something about the those factors, there is inconsistensies, like Goku having trouble lifting 40 tons and he had to go super to lift it. Yet later he easly lifts about 1 cubic meter of the hardest metal in universe (A cubic meter of gold will weighs 19.3 tons.), so surly this metal much wieght more than 20 tons, yet he seems to be lifting that with ease with 1 hand.
You can't even say anything about SSJ Gotenks speed, because it's never stated how long it took him to fly that distance.
But in Supermans case everything is stated, which makes it pretty easy to determine his strengh. Even though there still are inconsistensies like, how the hell can Superman move the moon or a planet with his hands, that will exert a HUGE amount of pressure on the ground, and he will just go through earth.

 

[The Sage]

If it's Vegeta when he first arrives, then Superman wins easily. If it's Vegeta during the Cell Saga, particularly after he achieves his Super Vegeta form, then I bid Superman goodbye and good luck.

 

[MSGohan]

If it's Vegeta when he first arrives, then Superman wins easily. If it's Vegeta during the Cell Saga, particularly after he achieves his Super Vegeta form, then I bid Superman goodbye and good luck.

As there are different levels of Vegeta, there also are different levels of Superman...
If we're talking abut the Superman from the Animated series or JLU, then it may be an intens battle. The victory could go to either of them. But Vegeta will be beaten by a stronger form of Superman, like the Pre-Crisis one for example.

 

[Sloth7d]

Unless we're talking about SSjVegeta, then he pwns all forms of Superman.
He may have to turn ascended saiyan to beat PreCrisis Supes, though.

 

[Warhammer]

As there are different levels of Vegeta, there also are different levels of Superman...
If we're talking abut the Superman from the Animated series or JLU, then it may be an intens battle. The victory could go to either of them. But Vegeta will be beaten by a stronger form of Superman, like the Pre-Crisis one for example.

You speak the truth.

 

[ssj4 vegetto]

the first time everyone is in agrement

 

[Leto Atrides]

But in Supermans case everything is stated, which makes it pretty easy to determine his strengh. Even though there still are inconsistensies like, how the hell can Superman move the moon or a planet with his hands, that will exert a HUGE amount of pressure on the ground, and he will just go through earth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactile_telekinesis

Basically he makes a big old force-field around things, and interacts with the field and not the object itself. It's presumably involuntary.

It's complete Deus ex Machina, but so is alot of Dragonball and DC Comics.

 

[MSGohan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactile_telekinesis

Basically he makes a big old force-field around things, and interacts with the field and not the object itself. It's presumably involuntary.

It's complete Deus ex Machina, but so is alot of Dragonball and DC Comics.

Well that would make sense of how they can lift houses. But it is stated,

Subsequently all fictional characters who display the above abilities are principally given the ability of tactile telekinesis by default even without the creators having to say so.

Itn't that ability even mentioned in the comics? Then how can someone just say that they have the ability to do so? Maybe the writers didn't even think of the object collapsing under it's own weight, when someone carries it??

 

[buutenks]

The Goku we in Manga seems a little crappy, because his strengh and speed never is stated as definite, and when there is something about the those factors, there is inconsistensies, like Goku having trouble lifting 40 tons and he had to go super to lift it. Yet later he easly lifts about 1 cubic meter of the hardest metal in universe (A cubic meter of gold will weighs 19.3 tons.), so surly this metal much wieght more than 20 tons, yet he seems to be lifting that with ease with 1 hand.
You can't even say anything about SSJ Gotenks speed, because it's never stated how long it took him to fly that distance.
But in Supermans case everything is stated, which makes it pretty easy to determine his strengh. Even though there still are inconsistensies like, how the hell can Superman move the moon or a planet with his hands, that will exert a HUGE amount of pressure on the ground, and he will just go through earth.

I agree.

And ssj Trunks destroyed Freeza(who can survive the explosion of a planet) with a small ki blast,that proves that their small ki blasts have more power then the explosion of a planet.

Edit:And Goku lifted that 2 meter wide rock,which would weigh around 15-20 tons and he lifted it like it was nothing and he was holding it like it wasn't even there.

I have to say that Toriyama didn't really thought of what Goku did when he was weaker and all that.

For e.g. it takes(in the manga) normal Goku without flying nowhere near his max speed,3-6 minutes to get from the tournament to where Babi-di's ship was,now it takes ssj Trunks and ssj Goten(and they really wanted to get there fast) about an hour or two to get there,talk about inconcitency.

Toriyama didn't really care how much Goku can lift,or if he made Goku in one scene weaker then when he's weaker and all that.

When Goku first came to Namek he traveled over a couple of islands in one second,or probably faster then one second seeing how Krillin and Vegeta didn't sensed him and Reccom's and the other two's scouter didn't picked up Goku moving,so he must've went faster then one second.

Now this Goku has a power level way weaker then ssj Trunks,so you see,Troiyama didn't care much about dbz,he made it to be there.

So trying to prove their speed or strength is pointless,because it was never stated.

 

[buutenks]

As there are different levels of Vegeta, there also are different levels of Superman...
If we're talking abut the Superman from the Animated series or JLU, then it may be an intens battle. The victory could go to either of them. But Vegeta will be beaten by a stronger form of Superman, like the Pre-Crisis one for example.

Animated Sups is weak,he loses badly to saiyan saga Vegeta.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Well that would make sense of how they can lift houses. But it is stated,

Itn't that ability even mentioned in the comics? Then how can someone just say that they have the ability to do so? Maybe the writers didn't even think of the object collapsing under it's own weight, when someone carries it??

The only person, to my knowledge, that was stated to actually utilize tactile telekinesis was Superboy post crisis.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

I agree.

And ssj Trunks destroyed Freeza(who can survive the explosion of a planet) with a small ki blast,that proves that their small ki blasts have more power then the explosion of a planet.

Not true. It's far easier to use a much smaller amount of energy in a super focused beam to penetrate a surface than an extremely overwhelming blunt amount of energy.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tactile_telekinesis

Basically he makes a big old force-field around things, and interacts with the field and not the object itself. It's presumably involuntary.

It's complete Deus ex Machina, but so is alot of Dragonball and DC Comics.

Not a Deus-ex Machina. Just a really easy way of explaining something that's probable off.


A Deus-ex Machina would be a no-powered Superman punching out Doomsday.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

The Goku we in Manga seems a little crappy, because his strengh and speed never is stated as definite, and when there is something about the those factors, there is inconsistensies, like Goku having trouble lifting 40 tons and he had to go super to lift it. Yet later he easly lifts about 1 cubic meter of the hardest metal in universe (A cubic meter of gold will weighs 19.3 tons.), so surly this metal much wieght more than 20 tons, yet he seems to be lifting that with ease with 1 hand.
You can't even say anything about SSJ Gotenks speed, because it's never stated how long it took him to fly that distance.
But in Supermans case everything is stated, which makes it pretty easy to determine his strengh. Even though there still are inconsistensies like, how the hell can Superman move the moon or a planet with his hands, that will exert a HUGE amount of pressure on the ground, and he will just go through earth.

Not exactly true.


Titanium is far harder than iron and lead, yet is only a mere fraction of the weight.

 

[Warhammer]

Wow, Mistress.
You are a smart girl.

 

[Ultra-Herald9]

Wow, Mistress.
You are a smart girl.

Tell me about it. Next time I have a question about physics i'm askin her.

 

[Ultra-Herald9]

Not true. It's far easier to use a much smaller amount of energy in a super focused beam to penetrate a surface than an extremely overwhelming blunt amount of energy.

Exactly. This is a reason why Superman's heat vision is so effective cause not only is it just heat but it also packs massive concussive force(enough to sweep Doomsday off his feet) and Supes can gauge how much heat or force he can put in to it. This makes him a huge threat from afar in battle even against invunerable enemies.

 

[buutenks]

Not true. It's far easier to use a much smaller amount of energy in a super focused beam to penetrate a surface than an extremely overwhelming blunt amount of energy.

Actually Trunks just focused his energy in that blast so it will destroy Freeza,I didn't meant that all their ki blasts have that much power,I mean that when they want they can focus their ki into the blast so it ill have more power but it wont to much to the area around it.

 

[MSGohan]

Not exactly true.


Titanium is far harder than iron and lead, yet is only a mere fraction of the weight.

Well that's true, I didn't think about that. But I only got the impression that it is very dens, because Goku can tell that it is hard by hitting softly at it. If that wasn't a dens material you wouldn't be able to tell...

 

[MSGohan]

Not true. It's far easier to use a much smaller amount of energy in a super focused beam to penetrate a surface than an extremely overwhelming blunt amount of energy.

What's your point? buutenks states,

(...),that proves that their small ki blasts have more power then the explosion of a planet.

Which means that their small ki blasts is MORE POWERFULL than a planetary explosion (not that a planetary explosion is weak..). He never said that the ki blast has more amount of energy of an entire planet explosion, but that this is more effective.

Exactly. This is a reason why Superman's heat vision is so effective cause not only is it just heat but it also packs massive concussive force(enough to sweep Doomsday off his feet) and Supes can gauge how much heat or force he can put in to it. This makes him a huge threat from afar in battle even against invunerable enemies.

Yes it is effective. There are also a couple of characters in DBZ who have this skill.

 

[Leto Atrides]

The only person, to my knowledge, that was stated to actually utilize tactile telekinesis was Superboy post crisis.

I think he used it actively, and then writers liked the idea and retconned it as an explanation for everybody else.

With Superboy is was a big component of his powers, and he went around purposely using it. I think with everyone else it's just an incidental thing.

 

[Ultra-Herald9]

The only person, to my knowledge, that was stated to actually utilize tactile telekinesis was Superboy post crisis.

Superman's energy field works the exact same way although it was never outright stated it was tactile telekinesis.

 

[buutenks]

Well that's true, I didn't think about that. But I only got the impression that it is very dens, because Goku can tell that it is hard by hitting softly at it. If that wasn't a dens material you wouldn't be able to tell...

It doesn't matter,he lifted that 15 ton rock like it wasn't even there.

And like missters said,it could be a very tough metal,but to be very light.

Though as light as it probably was,it still would have 5 tons or less.

The rock feat is much better.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Superman's energy field works the exact same way although it was never outright stated it was tactile telekinesis.

His field is reflexive, where Kon's was active.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Actually Trunks just focused his energy in that blast so it will destroy Freeza,I didn't meant that all their ki blasts have that much power,I mean that when they want they can focus their ki into the blast so it ill have more power but it wont to much to the area around it.

Oh, he obviously did focus his energy. I doubt anybody will actually challenge that idea. But what I'm saying that planetary destruction energy necessity definitely changes in how you actually use it. If you're going to destroy someone from the inside out, the energy required is dramatically less than if you're trying to do it from the outside. Because, from the inside, you only need enough to let the pressure just erupt from the inside out. Where, if you attack from the outside, you'd basically have to overcome something, which would require much more energy.

I'm not saying Trunk's couldn't destroy a planet. It's just that he didn't need the energy necessary to destroy a planet to destroy Frieza if he focused his energy correctly.