Villain Spawning

Discussion in 'The Dark Knight' started by spideyman101, Dec 22, 2007.

  1. spideyman101 Registered

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    I think it's entirely possible with the current circumstances that the origin of Joker is such:

    Jack Napier is a common thief and is being tracked by the cops. He gets in a razor blade accident and is then captured. Scarecrow does his typical thing (he's done this around the time, or before the time, of Batman Begins). He tries to give Jack the insanity plea so that he can move him to Arkham. But when he does this he also takes the time to test his new formula! He tests it on Jack and it turns him mentally insane. It does the opposite of making him insane by fear! It makes him insane by happiness! Jack is locked away in the Asylum and Dr. Crane decides to go back to the old formula for obvious reasons ( :oldrazz: ), but he (Joker) makes his grand escape in Batman Begins when the SWAT team unlock all the doors and all the goons are set free. Jack, instead of rampaging the streets, uses his brains and hides. Taking his insanity and his scarred face like a weapon, he then dies his hair green, puts on white makeup, mascara, and red lipstick and then begins his torture upon Gotham!

    NOTE: Scarecrow locks his new formula away, but then Joker comes and makes him an offer he can't refuse (his life). Scarecrow finally gives him a full truckload of this "laughing gas". Joker then uses it on his victims (some of them).

    Now in relation to Two-Face, I thoroughly believe Joker should have SOME part in scaring Harvey. I believe Joker and Maroni should work together. Maybe Joker supplies the acid to Maroni who then takes it upon Harvey...

    Now if these two situations happened, then I think it'll be interesting how all villains have a role in "creating" the next villain.

    Ra's Al Ghul: He helped supply Dr. Jonathon Crane with the formula, thus ultimately creating Scarecrow.

    Scarecrow: He tests his new formula on Jack Napier ultimately creating Joker.

    Joker: He helps supply Maroni with acid so he could then hurt Harvey Dent, thus creating Two-Face...

    Two-Face: Given the same order in which the previous villains have had a part in creating the next villain, who's life do you think Two-Face will alter so severely that the next villain in Gotham is born?
     
  2. David Rice Registered

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    For the love of god!

    1. Ra's Al Ghul did not create the Scarecrow.
    2. For the last time!!!!! The Joker is not Jack Napier.
    3. And hell no to the Joker giving Maroni the acid.
     
  3. spideyman101 Registered

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    Maybe no Jack Napier, but that's the only name I could find!

    The thing about Joker giving acid to Maroni, it makes Joker half responsible for Two-Face... this will give Two-Face a reason to want and kill Joker!
     
  4. Ama Zing Registered

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    The whole line of villians connected is a neat idea, though I don't really suscribe to the Scarecrow tested on pre-Joker theory. We're not supposed to get any origin, but I think it's possible that the fear gas might have played a part, since it's still an important element pre-TDK as seen in the Gotham Times.

    That said, couldn't this just be brought up in one of the pre-existing Joker threads, rather than make a whole new thread?
     
  5. Ama Zing Registered

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    And yeah, Ra's didn't create Scarecrow, he just gave him new toys.
     
  6. David Rice Registered

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    That's becuase no one knows who the Joker really is and that is the way it will be in the film.

    Joker should not responsible for creating Two-Face at all. I will not happen that way dude. Sorry, but from what "we" know about the film now eveything points to just Maroni.
     
  7. t1box135 Registered

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    nolan said we're not getting an "origin of joker"
     
  8. doctorkenyon Free Range Human

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    Making the Jokers origin dependent on another villain in any way is a bad move.

    I'm happy to just have him turn up origin free.
     
  9. DaRkVeNgeanCe An Epic Film Guy

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    I definetly dont want Heath's Joker to be Jack Napier
     
  10. Gianakin_ SW Prequels Defender

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    No problem with one villain being created by another, as long as it's done well.
     
  11. doctorkenyon Free Range Human

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    It would take away from the independent 'wildcard' nature of the character.

    To give him ties to other characters straight away would limit him.
     
  12. Gianakin_ SW Prequels Defender

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    So does Maroni's big part in creating Two-Face limit him, or Dent? Or does it create excellent dynamics between the 2 characters?
     
  13. doctorkenyon Free Range Human

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    I just want to see this Joker come in with a blank slate, no baggage, just carnage.

    But yeah, good point well made. :up:
     
  14. Gianakin_ SW Prequels Defender

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    Oh, I wasn't talking about the Joker. I'm talking about villains in general.
    I agree with you about the Joker. Still, if someone had a good idea about interweaved origins of him and another villain, I'd love to be surprised.
     
  15. doctorkenyon Free Range Human

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    Just out of curiosity, which prequel trilogy are you defending?
     
  16. ashminator side-punch

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    why does joker have to have anything to do with the creation of two face? why cant it just be another subplot story arc wthin the film?

    like your ideas about certain points though some good ideas but i dont think the film will pan out like this myself

    i hope the fear gas does has somthing to with it but leaving the joker a mystery ads more depth like the whole wolverine thing

    it keeps us and batman guessing
     
  17. ashminator side-punch

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    re edited to two face sorry
     
  18. Gianakin_ SW Prequels Defender

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    The Star Wars one. Love it, and at points much more than the Original One.
     
  19. doctorkenyon Free Range Human

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    As I feared =p

    I'll never watch them again but at least they spawned some good comics, games etc...
     
  20. doctorkenyon Free Range Human

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    You always fear what you don't understand...
     
  21. Bat-Mite Registered

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    I'm glad that Gordon said in the trailer that the Joker has no other aliases and they basically had no clue as to who he is. Because if the name "Jack Napier" appeared in this movie, I'd disown it and Nolan's entire trilogy. That's how much I hate the idea of the Joker having a fleshed out origin in this movie. He works much better as a character with a mysterious background.
     
  22. Symbiote666 Registered

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    I think Harvey Dent should be the first 'stage' of the Joker trying out his 'laughing gas'. BB focused on all of that gas/antidote/chemical warefare stuff, they shouldn't fill TDK with it. We should see/hear that he is trying to develop Crane's formula to make his own brand of it, but he shouldn't use it until the end of the movie. I think whenever the Joker meets his demise, the last thing he has involvement with should be Harvey Dent. Sending a letter to him, another good chance to slip in one of these online game 'slogans' "I believe in Harvey Dent", he just thinks it is some fan mail and carelessly opens it. Then, when he opens it it should be rigged to explode, like a letter bomb, and the close quarter explosion, mixed with the effects of the Joker's toxin should both scar Dent, and turn him insane.
     
  23. ashminator side-punch

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    sybiote 666 see the thread i opened for a reaction to this
     
  24. SpiderWill Registered

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    Possible spoilers

    My guess is that Batman struggles with the choice of killing the joker, and that he ultimately decides to spare him and he goes to court. During the trial Joker scars Harvey Dent, causing Harvey to think "If Batman had killed the Joker this wouldn't have happened" thus warping his concept of right and wrong.
    With this new sense of justice Dent hunts down Maroni and the reported limo scene takes place.


    As for the joker, I think its better if he doesn't have any origins or ties to anyone. It works better to have a character that is, as Nolan called him, an absolute. Like the Villain in No land for old men (great movie you should check it out). That way the joker is a metaphor for the continued chaos that Batman faces reinforcing that his mission is not a finite one.
     
  25. ashminator side-punch

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    dick grayson once said that the he (batman) and the joker will always exist in constant battle

    that they exist because the other one does

    the joker is the chaos to batman's order

    and einstein said

    for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction

    so spiderwill is right
     

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