War Zone Box Office Thread

[Devil]

The Spirit did bomb, but not as bad as War Zone.

And it's strange...Do you know? War Zone it's better than Spirit...Spirit is totally the worst movie i've seen on the entire 2008!

 

[S. Grundy]

I'd say they're on about the same level.

 

[Heretic]

I made a joke the other day that for this past weekend Punisher War Zone made more money than The Dark Knight (which is out on DVD and was in theaters months before PWZ). Well...shockingly...The Dark Knight is now making more money than Punisher War Zone IN THEATERS. Like...yesterday!

 

[Balthus Dire]

Yeah, it's really shocking that the second highest grossing movie of all time is outselling PWZ.

 

[Kable24]

What's really sad is that even the Spirit out sold PWZ. Howard the Duck out sold PWZ.

 

[dft-313]

Yeah, it's really shocking that the second highest grossing movie of all time is outselling PWZ.

In theatres, six months after that film was initially released. Yeah, way to defeat your own point, slugger.

 

[Heretic]

Yes...a movie that just about everyone on earth has already seen...a movie that has been out for 6 months...a movie that is available on DVD to watch in the comfort of your own home...a movie whos DVD has broken tons of sales records...and was the highest sselling DVD of the Christmas season...is STILL beating a new movie in the same genre IN THEATERS. You really owned me on that one. I feel pretty silly now.

 

[dft-313]

What's really sad is that even the Spirit out sold PWZ. Howard the Duck out sold PWZ.

It speaks to the horrendous choices made by the team behind PWZ, really.

 

[The Guard]

Hardly. If that was true, movies like MEET THE SPARTANS and DISASTER MOVIE wouldn't make any money at all (movies that are loaded with horrendous choices).

It speaks to the fact that the public is just not all that interested in another Punisher movie in comparison to the other movies, and not much else, and that they were interested in a star-studded THE SPIRIT and HOWARD THE DUCK on some level.

 

[Nivek]

What's really sad is that even the Spirit out sold PWZ.

Which is pretty telling, since that film has been getting negative hype since Comic-Con back over the summer.

 

[Balthus Dire]

Yes...a movie that just about everyone on earth has already seen...a movie that has been out for 6 months...a movie that is available on DVD to watch in the comfort of your own home...a movie whos DVD has broken tons of sales records...and was the highest sselling DVD of the Christmas season...is STILL beating a new movie in the same genre IN THEATERS. You really owned me on that one. I feel pretty silly now.

Yeah, because the #2 grossing film of all time is not going to be a massive knockout on DVD sales?? Like, what are you thinking?? As if it wasn't expected that Dark Knight would sell millions in DVD sales, it's the second highest grossing film ever!!

That's an unfair comparison, and that's the point I was making. That's like laughing because "Casablanca" outsold "The Goonies".

 

[rogue trooper]

Thank you.

 

[Heretic]

Yeah, because the #2 grossing film of all time is not going to be a massive knockout on DVD sales?? Like, what are you thinking?? As if it wasn't expected that Dark Knight would sell millions in DVD sales, it's the second highest grossing film ever!!

That's an unfair comparison, and that's the point I was making. That's like laughing because "Casablanca" outsold "The Goonies".

Im going to try to explain this again...

I am not stating that The Dark Knight did more box office than Punisher War Zone.

I am saying that LAST WEEKEND The Dark Knight made more than Punisher War Zone. You yourself admit that almost everyone has seen The Dark Knight...and you yourself admit that the DVD broke all kinds of records...

So...it IS IN FACT laughable that last weekend IN THEATERS The Dark Knight made more money than Punisher War Zone. What theaters even carry The Dark Knight anymore??? I'll tell you which ones...dollar theaters!!! The Dark Knight $1-ticketed itself past War Zone MONTHS after most people had already seen it, and WEEKS after everyone got the movie on DVD.

You keep calling The Dark Knight a blockbuster...which is EXACTLY WHY people shouldnt STILL be seeing the movie in theaters. Not many people are...but its still beating War Zone.

 

[The Guard]

THE DARK KNIGHT is a very, very good movie in most respects and a cultural phenomenon. I wouldn't say it's laughable that it's outselling WAR ZONE.

 

[citizenpain]

Im going to try to explain this again...

I am not stating that The Dark Knight did more box office than Punisher War Zone.

I am saying that LAST WEEKEND The Dark Knight made more than Punisher War Zone. You yourself admit that almost everyone has seen The Dark Knight...and you yourself admit that the DVD broke all kinds of records...

So...it IS IN FACT laughable that last weekend IN THEATERS The Dark Knight made more money than Punisher War Zone. What theaters even carry The Dark Knight anymore??? I'll tell you which ones...dollar theaters!!! The Dark Knight $1-ticketed itself past War Zone MONTHS after most people had already seen it, and WEEKS after everyone got the movie on DVD.

how is it in fact laughable that a great film like the dark knight is beating pwz in theaters long after its release? that doesn't make sense. it'd be laughable if it was a horrible movie like meet the spartans, but it's the dark ****ing knight! everybody and their mom has seen the movie at least 3 times if not more.

You keep calling The Dark Knight a blockbuster...which is EXACTLY WHY people shouldnt STILL be seeing the movie in theaters. Not many people are...but its still beating War Zone.

that's like saying that if titanic or some other blockbuster was re-released in theaters, nobody would go see it because it was such a huge hit and everybody has already seen it. huh? if it's a blockbuster, people are going to watch it and they're going to watch it a lot. given the option of seeing it in theatres over dvd, i'd definitely go to that dollar feature and people went ape**** over tdk, there's some that probably saw the movie like 10+ times in theaters.

 

[dft-313]

Hardly. If that was true, movies like MEET THE SPARTANS and DISASTER MOVIE wouldn't make any money at all (movies that are loaded with horrendous choices).

It speaks to the fact that the public is just not all that interested in another Punisher movie in comparison to the other movies, and not much else, and that they were interested in a star-studded THE SPIRIT and HOWARD THE DUCK on some level.

Those films have a clearly defined market and the choices are horrendous to me, but make sense to the intended audience. And even then, both bombed pretty badly in theatres.

The Punisher movie could have been successful on the following criteria:

- retaining Thomas Jane and making the DVD's audience aware of a sequel
- hiring an experienced, proven director with a cult reputation and a track record of good, low budget action movies
- a serious approach to the material that placed some emphasis on character (the fact is that X-Men and Spider-Man have raised the bar - PWZ sought to drop it beneath sea level)
- Marketing that sold the story rather than ridiculous, sub John Woo action histrionics

That would have brought the character out of the comic book zone - he's the most believable of Marvel's current heroes in a real world context - how about playing him that way?

 

[rogue trooper]

The Punisher movie could have been successful on the following criteria:

- retaining Thomas Jane and making the DVD's audience aware of a sequel
- hiring an experienced, proven director with a cult reputation and a track record of good, low budget action movies
- a serious approach to the material that placed some emphasis on character (the fact is that X-Men and Spider-Man have raised the bar - PWZ sought to drop it beneath sea level)
- Marketing that sold the story rather than ridiculous, sub John Woo action histrionics

That would have brought the character out of the comic book zone - he's the most believable of Marvel's current heroes in a real world context - how about playing him that way?

- Jane was the one who walked out.
- I think she delivered quite well.
- The concept of The Punisher is very different from Spider-Man and X-Men.
-The marketing, now there kinda' agree.

While The Punisher is the most believable character in The Marvel Universe, I would dissagree that he's the easiest to adapt to screen. You see, in a universe like Marvel, where it is mostly filled with colorful costumed super powered heroes, a somber, obsessed, non-superpowered vigilante like The Punisher really stands out. That is one of his main strenghts as a comicbook character.
Now, when taking the character to celluloid, I believe it has to be done in a very stylized way, because there have already been countless films that have dealt with the type of action The Punisher would have. I think Lexi cleverly did with the character what Ennis did with him on WBF which is to have fun with it.

 

[Heretic]

Youre talking as if The Dark Knight was some megahit released eons ago that hasnt been avaiable for viewing and was rereleased to theaters so everyone could finally see it again.

In fact...it never left theaters...it can easily be seen in the comfort of peoples homes...a DVD costs roughly the same amount as a family of tickets and drinks and popcorn (probably less).

You really cant come up with a GOOD reason why a 6 month old movie, available on DVD, is beating a brand new release in the same genre. If anything, people who like The Dark Knight should be checking out some other dark superhero film...like Punisher...instead of going to the theater to see a movie they own at home.

Understand this...they have ALREADY SEEN The Dark Knight! They OWN THE DVD. There is NO REASON to go out to see it again over another movie in the same genre...unless of course...that new movie is a colossal bomb that is almost universally despised.

 

[rogue trooper]

There is NO REASON to go out to see it again over another movie in the same genre...unless of course...that new movie is a colossal bomb that is almost universally despised.

....or unless ofcourse...it isn't that the new movie is universally despised, but because of the lousy marketing there are people who don't know about the film.

 

[jebhdb]

I wouldn't be suprised to see War Zone's box office jump somewhat when it reaches the dollar theaters. There's alot of people that don't even go to the theater until a movie hits the dollar show. I'm not saying that War Zone is going to jump into the top 10 or anything, but maybe it will at least beat TDK for the week in theaters.

 

[Heretic]

....or unless ofcourse...it isn't that the new movie is universally despised, but because of the lousy marketing there are people who don't know about the film.

I am actually one of the few who liked War Zone...but you really cant deny the facts...people dont want to see it. I heard so many people blame the release date on the poor debut, yet that date didnt seem to affect all the other movies that stomped it in its opening weekend. I like the movie, but Im not drinking the kool aid. The movie bombed on its own terms. The movie was advertised to action fans...and action fans decided not to see it...good of word of mouth could have saved it...but word of mouth was bad. You cant blame anything but the movie itself.

 

[Heretic]

Since some of you ccant wrap your heads around why The Dark Knight shouldnt still be beating War Zone in theater...

Max Payne...in its 11th week...beat Punisher War Zone this past weekend. No "blockbuster" arguments there...same genre and Max Payne has been out far longer and is less well known, but its still far outpacing War Zone on a day to day basis.

Oops...edit to make myself accurate.

 

[dft-313]

- Jane was the one who walked out.
- I think she delivered quite well.
- The concept of The Punisher is very different from Spider-Man and X-Men.
-The marketing, now there kinda' agree.

1) Jane walked out because the project was completely screwed - the studio could have made an effort to keep him on - he fought long and hard to get the sequel made.

2) You may think so, but the majority of critics disagree and, here's the kicker, so did the public. Lexi has the honour of making a worse film that Mark Goldblatt did but with more money and a better cast.

3) Which has what to do with my point that the film would have benefited from a more serious approach? Do you honestly think she got the tone right to appeal to a mainstream audience? It's pretty obvious that's not the case.

While The Punisher is the most believable character in The Marvel Universe, I would dissagree that he's the easiest to adapt to screen. You see, in a universe like Marvel, where it is mostly filled with colorful costumed super powered heroes, a somber, obsessed, non-superpowered vigilante like The Punisher really stands out. That is one of his main strenghts as a comicbook character.

It seems pretty easy to me - take one solid MAX arc, like In The Beginning or Up Is Down..., mix in some of the elements from other MAX and Punisher stories for flavour and origin (explaining the background through dialogue rather than showing anything) and then get a good scriptwriter and director to bash it into shape. PRESTO - decent dark, adult thriller.

Now, when taking the character to celluloid, I believe it has to be done in a very stylized way, because there have already been countless films that have dealt with the type of action The Punisher would have. I think Lexi cleverly did with the character what Ennis did with him on WBF which is to have fun with it.

You think Lexi's approach was "clever"? You undermine your own argument - the film is the epitome of dumb - and it fails in even that narrow remit.

WBF works precisely because it IS a comic book, but we already saw those elements translated poorly to celluloid in Punisher 2004. That film fails whenever it tries to be more flippant because the character doesn't suit it.

The critics and the audience have responded to this sillier treatment by ignoring the film almost entirely - it is the LEAST SUCCESSFUL MARVEL FILM EVER. Even allowing for inflation!

 

[rogue trooper]

I am actually one of the few who liked War Zone...but you really cant deny the facts...people dont want to see it. I heard so many people blame the release date on the poor debut, yet that date didnt seem to affect all the other movies that stomped it in its opening weekend. I like the movie, but Im not drinking the kool aid. The movie bombed on its own terms. The movie was advertised to action fans...and action fans decided not to see it...good of word of mouth could have saved it...but word of mouth was bad. You cant blame anything but the movie itself.

...well, good, cause it's not kool aid. Yes, the movie was advertised to action fans but not enough and at the very last minute. Add to that the bad release date and the film coming relatively right after the other actioneers Transporter 3 and Quantum of Solace. So no, you can't just blame the movie itself.

 

[The Guard]

The Punisher movie could have been successful on the following criteria:

- retaining Thomas Jane

Thomas Jane walked off this project on his own, claiming he didn't "believe in it". Whatever that means. Most of the things he talked about wanting in a Punisher film were found in WAR ZONE. The latest rumors on it were that he wanted more creative control, and was denied it.

and making the DVD's audience aware of a sequel

Because releasing a Punisher sequel somehow isn't making them aware of that?

- hiring an experienced, proven director with a cult reputation and a track record of good, low budget action movies

O...k.

Yes, that would have been nice, but word from most insiders was that since THE PUNISHER wasn't a great movie and Hensleigh's script was awful, it was hard for Lionsgate to get any directors interested. Bit of an uphill battle there.

- a serious approach to the material that placed some emphasis on character (the fact is that X-Men and Spider-Man have raised the bar - PWZ sought to drop it beneath sea level)

Emphasis on character in what regard? An origin?

- Marketing that sold the story rather than ridiculous, sub John Woo action histrionics

That might have been a good idea, yes.

That would have brought the character out of the comic book zone - he's the most believable of Marvel's current heroes in a real world context - how about playing him that way?

Frank Castle was portrayed in a fairly realistic manner. So were his emotions, and so were his motivations, and his methods.

Now, when taking the character to celluloid, I believe it has to be done in a very stylized way, because there have already been countless films that have dealt with the type of action The Punisher would have. I think Lexi cleverly did with the character what Ennis did with him on WBF which is to have fun with it.

I would tend to agree that, like Ennis's runs, there has to be more to it than just "uber serious vigilante tale". Rarely can you just put an ultra serious vigilante onscreen and sell it to the public. Especially if you don't have a big name to do so.

Youre talking as if The Dark Knight was some megahit released eons ago that hasnt been avaiable for viewing and was rereleased to theaters so everyone could finally see it again.

In fact...it never left theaters...it can easily be seen in the comfort of peoples homes...a DVD costs roughly the same amount as a family of tickets and drinks and popcorn (probably less).

You really cant come up with a GOOD reason why a 6 month old movie, available on DVD, is beating a brand new release in the same genre. If anything, people who like The Dark Knight should be checking out some other dark superhero film...like Punisher...instead of going to the theater to see a movie they own at home.

THE DARK KNIGHT is a movie that is being rereleased in mainstream theatres, that's how popular it was.

You want a reason why THE DARK KNIGHT is still making more than WAR ZONE?

Because one movie is PUNISHER: WAR ZONE, a character far less people have interest in to begin with than Batman, with a cast of relative unnknowns. One movie is THE DARK KNIGHT, a blockbuster, Oscar-buzz generating, critically acclaimed film starring several big names.

I mean...really?

This is your argument?

Understand this...they have ALREADY SEEN The Dark Knight! They OWN THE DVD. There is NO REASON to go out to see it again over another movie in the same genre...unless of course...that new movie is a colossal bomb that is almost universally despised.

If there's no reason to go out and see it all over again, why are people still doing so? Because it's generally regarded as a fantastic film.

Max Payne...in its 11th week...beat Punisher War Zone this past weekend. No "blockbuster" arguments there...same genre and Max Payne has been out far longer and is less well known, but its still far outpacing War Zone on a day to day basis.

This one isn't all that hard to figure out, either.

There are legions of video game fans compared to comic book (and specificially Punisher) die hards. And Mark Wahlberg is a huge draw.

It's not hard to figure out why Max Payne would still be making a bit of money over WAR ZONE.