Watching X2 again, I could cry!

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

"Dad can we talk about this for a second?"

"I can't do this."

"I'm sorry I know this is a bad time.."

Yes, not much more than one but there are more, which is why I said 'for the record'.

How would Singer have introduced Angel in X2 btw? I don't think I've ever heard it.

And he had what, 8mins screentime, he wasnt even worth including, and what made turn from someone embarrassed by their mutant abilities to someone who couldnt give them up? Why not show us him savings someone's life he couldnt have without his wings? So then he realises he can use his abilities for good deads and thats why he rejects the cure, would that have been so hard?

 

[gambitfire]

He was just there for plain and simple eye candy.

Ohhh look at the pretty wings....end scene.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

-sighs- So what now?

 

[gambitfire]

Hey Andy.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

hey gambit.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

He was just there for plain and simple eye candy.

Ohhh look at the pretty wings....end scene.

Well eye candy seemed to be the only thing they were aiming for with this movie doesnt it? That would be alright for a lesser known CB movie, but not the goddamn X-Men!

 

[WorthyStevens]

And he had what, 8mins screentime, he wasnt even worth including, and what made turn from someone embarrassed by their mutant abilities to someone who couldnt give them up? Why not show us him savings someone's life he couldnt have without his wings? So then he realises he can use his abilities for good deads and thats why he rejects the cure, would that have been so hard?

Try 3 minutes of screentime.

 

[Celestio]

And he had what, 8mins screentime, he wasnt even worth including, and what made turn from someone embarrassed by their mutant abilities to someone who couldnt give them up? Why not show us him savings someone's life he couldnt have without his wings? So then he realises he can use his abilities for good deads and thats why he rejects the cure, would that have been so hard?

Every character can't have the same amount of screentime in any film, that's a fact. Angel was a new character and he was never gonna have Wolverine or even Iceman's amount of screentime - he had to be established first. The same thing could be applied to Jubilee or Kitty in X2, their fans can't have been happy with the small roles they had but they never could have had huge roles with so many other characters.

Kitty went from having a cameo in X1, to a slightly bigger but still small role in X2, to a lot bigger role in X3. I'm sure if X4 goes ahead, Angel will have a more expanded role now he has been introduced and set up.

edit - And I'm pretty sure he saved his dad's life which he couldn't have done if he had taken the cure.

 

[La_She-Beast]

But it's amazing how much information you can squeeze from a character in like, three minutes? Just a bare moment of dialogue with another character (e.g. his father) would've given much info/prominence about Angel

 

[gambitfire]

Callisto and Juggernaut had more Screen time than him, so yea i would say it's a problem Celestio.

Oh and as far as Cameo goes they destroyed that the moment they advertised him as well as gave him extra dialogue. So unless there is such a thing as a glorified cameo i would never compare it to one.

 

[The Guard]

Warren/Angel in X3 is the poster child of this film for the cure, along with Rogue. He represents the pressure from others that people feel to assimilate...especially young people, and combined with Rogue's arc, and Logan's speech to her, delivers on one of the key themes of the film: the belief that you should decide whether to assimilate or not for yourself. That there are other ways than simply changing who or what you are to get through life. No, we don't find out he's good looking, but we do see some depth to his character and it's relation to the story.

If one doesn't at least appreciate the weight to Angel's role in X3, then I must assume that odds are they've never struggled with outside forces that want them to change who they are the way his character does. What, Nightcrawler's two or three "message" lines make his character a classic, but Angel's part in X3 is "useless"?

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Warren/Angel in X3 is the poster child of this film for the cure, along with Rogue. He represents the pressure from others that people feel to assimilate...especially young people, and combined with Rogue's arc, and Logan's speech to her, delivers on one of the key themes of the film: the belief that you should decide whether to assimilate or not for yourself. That there are other ways than simply changing who or what you are to get through life. No, we don't find out he's good looking, but we do see some depth to his character and it's relation to the story.

If one doesn't at least appreciate the weight to Angel's role in X3, then I must assume that odds are they've never struggled with outside forces that want them to change who they are the way his character does. What, Nightcrawler's two or three "message" lines make his character a classic, but Angel's part in X3 is "useless"?

Angel's character in X3 was useless. What was the point? He had no real emotional scenes and the conflicting scenes were quickly over. He offered nothing to the plot and was misused terribly.

So we're supposed to be happy with a character that essentially got screwed over? No thanks.

 

[chaseter]

Angel's character in X3 was useless. What was the point? He had no real emotional scenes and the conflicting scenes were quickly over. He offered nothing to the plot and was misused terribly.

So we're supposed to be happy with a character that essentially got screwed over? No thanks.

Angel had to decide whether or not to take the cure, even if it was against what his father wanted for him...conformity, to be normal in the eyes of the 'normal'. Yet he still saved his father in the end. I do agree his character's potential could have been great and we were lied to. But to say his character was useless is a bit overboard. Angel was underdeveloped. I am happy Angel was in X3...better than nothing. It is better to get to see a character in what is suppose to be then end of the movies than never at all. Hell, I am still mad I never saw Gambit...he had better be in a movie SOON.

 

[Hugh'sMrs]

Kitty went from having a cameo in X1, to a slightly bigger but still small role in X2, to a lot bigger role in X3.

Sumela's role in X1 was much larger than Katie's in X2. Katie embarrassed herself on her website by bragging that her role was much more substantial and then all she did was phase through her bed into the floor below and run through a guard. Big deal. By Katie's own admission, no scenes were left on the cutting room floor. That's all she ended up doing.

Page's casting was an embarrassment. They made such a big deal of her dramatic role in Hard Candy. Maybe she is a great actress, but you couldn't tell from the awful lines she had to recite in X3.

 

[gambitfire]

Warren/Angel in X3 is the poster child of this film for the cure, along with Rogue. He represents the pressure from others that people feel to assimilate...especially young people, and combined with Rogue's arc, and Logan's speech to her, delivers on one of the key themes of the film: the belief that you should decide whether to assimilate or not for yourself. That there are other ways than simply changing who or what you are to get through life. No, we don't find out he's good looking, but we do see some depth to his character and it's relation to the story.

Or instead of barely giving any focus or depth too the Angel and Rogue arcs which are as you claim so similar, they could of just made it a bigger Rogue arc and not have done Angel at all, of course at that point we lose the eye candy effects don't we.

We barely feel what he's going through i for one felt no struggle within him, and Rogue besides the (IMO)fact that she made the wrong choice, they didn't even bother making it seem like she did it for the right reasons.

If one doesn't at least appreciate the weight to Angel's role in X3, then I must assume that odds are they've never struggled with outside forces that want them to change who they are the way his character does. What, Nightcrawler's two or three "message" lines make his character a classic, but Angel's part in X3 is "useless"?

Not only is that a horrible assumption but it says alot about your character.

Nightcrawlers did more than deliver 2 or 3 lines, he was also useful in power adding a nice balance to a what was ment to be a secondary character.

 

[gambitfire]

Angel had to decide whether or not to take the cure, even if it was against what his father wanted for him...conformity, to be normal in the eyes of the 'normal'. Yet he still saved his father in the end. I do agree his character's potential could have been great and we were lied to. But to say his character was useless is a bit overboard. Angel was underdeveloped. I am happy Angel was in X3...better than nothing. It is better to get to see a character in what is suppose to be then end of the movies than never at all. Hell, I am still mad I never saw Gambit...he had better be in a movie SOON.

Not only was there no time to let this sink in but, i still felt no struggle coming from the character. The lines didn't help out at all IMO.

And No with FOX behind X-Men i don't want to see Gambit in a film, and my god am i upset that he's the only missing character from the TAS lineup, but for what we got it makes me feel glad he is.

 

[WorthyStevens]

If one doesn't at least appreciate the weight to Angel's role in X3, then I must assume that odds are they've never struggled with outside forces that want them to change who they are the way his character does. What, Nightcrawler's two or three "message" lines make his character a classic, but Angel's part in X3 is "useless"?

What weight? We didn't need Angel as that pressured character because we already had Rogue. And the difference between Nightcrawler and Angel is that NC actually did something in the movie besides teleporting around and starring in a useless arc that did nothing to forward the movie.

 

[Cyclops]

Hey, Angel had the most important "Stick his head through a doorway" scene in the whole movie.

 

[WorthyStevens]

Hey, Angel had the most important "Stick his head through a doorway" scene in the whole movie.

And noone could have done that better.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Angel's character wasn't pointless.

What Angel's character lacked wasn't character development. It was payoff.

In the opening flashback, it comes off pretty clear (at least to me) that Angel is cutting off his wings because of what his dad would think. Hence the dialogue:

Warren Worthington II: "Oh god, not you."
Warren Worthington III: "Dad, I'm sorry."

It's established pretty well in that scene in the Worthington building when Angel rejects the cure that he was just going along with it because it's what his father wanted, and he realized that it wasn't who he was.

What happens after that, however, is lackluster.

The flashback scene, the scene of Angel rejecting the cure, those were brilliant. And it was pretty nice when Angel appeared at the school. And when you see him overhear Wolverine telling Storm and Beast about Magneto's plan, it seems like something is in store for him.

And then... it's not... he just shows up... at the most convenient time ever to save his father who was tossed over the ledge.

That scene is a perfect example of bad film making, in my opinion. On the commentary, Ratner thought it was some brilliant thing to have him just appear. Kinberg and Penn were just kind of like "Um... no"

Payoff would have been him joining the X-Men, to go to Alcatraz to fight to protect his father.

What we got was just, meh. The flashback scene, Angel rejecting the cure... those were brilliant! A brilliant set up for absolutley no pay off. So he could save his father conveniently? Um... no.

It's another one of those "The character development was there... the arc was there... it was a 'do just enough to get the job done'... but more would have definatley enriched the story" moments.

 

[Halcohol]

On the commentary, Ratner thought it was some brilliant thing to have him just appear. Kinberg and Penn were just kind of like "Um... no"

Ever get the impression that absolutely nobody likes Brett Ratner?

 

[Seen]

I actually agree with Ratner there. Angel just appearing out of the blue to save his father was a cool moment in my opinion.

However it would've been cooler if Angel had a bit more scenes and more character development.

 

[kg576094]

How did Angel go from one scene to the next with nothing in between i.e. from rejecting his mutancy bec of his dad to accepting it....what is so badly needed is a heart-to-heart talk between Angel & his dad. Rogue even took 2 movie to accept hers after discovering what she could do with her powers, so should Angel at least. After rescuing his dad, I was expecting a scene where his dad said he's sorry for what he has done but there wasn't 1?? that would have made one hell of an emotional scene and a neat conclusion to his arc.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

What weight? We didn't need Angel as that pressured character because we already had Rogue. And the difference between Nightcrawler and Angel is that NC actually did something in the movie besides teleporting around and starring in a useless arc that did nothing to forward the movie.

Exactly, it was pointless to have him there because other characters were already there to go through that arc, but they dispensed with Nightcrawler and i wont mention what happened to Rogue, but what happened to Beast, he was conflicted about the cure for what? 30 seconds! His arc was never fully realised either, the makers of this movie just didnt seem to have a clue about characterisation.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Kitty went from having a cameo in X1, to a slightly bigger but still small role in X2, to a lot bigger role in X3. I'm sure if X4 goes ahead, Angel will have a more expanded role now he has been introduced and set up.

edit - And I'm pretty sure he saved his dad's life which he couldn't have done if he had taken the cure.

I VERY much doubt there will be an X4, and if there is, i'm not going to see it unless Singer comes back or we get another director who understands characterisation.

And Angel did save his dads life, but that was WAY after he had already rejected the cure for reasons we'll never know.