Watching X2 again, I could cry!

[Celestio]

Sumela's role in X1 was much larger than Katie's in X2. Katie embarrassed herself on her website by bragging that her role was much more substantial and then all she did was phase through her bed into the floor below and run through a guard. Big deal. By Katie's own admission, no scenes were left on the cutting room floor. That's all she ended up doing.

Page's casting was an embarrassment. They made such a big deal of her dramatic role in Hard Candy. Maybe she is a great actress, but you couldn't tell from the awful lines she had to recite in X3.

Um, I couldn't care less about the actresses to be honest. Kitty in X1 had one scene where she ran through the door but for the rest she was in you couldn't really notice her. I remember the scene from X2 more.

Whether you think Ellen Page was an embarassment or not is irrelevant to my point, she still had a significantly larger role in X3.

 

[antonydelfini]

Angel's character wasn't pointless.

What Angel's character lacked wasn't character development. It was payoff.

In the opening flashback, it comes off pretty clear (at least to me) that Angel is cutting off his wings because of what his dad would think. Hence the dialogue:

Warren Worthington II: "Oh god, not you."
Warren Worthington III: "Dad, I'm sorry."

It's established pretty well in that scene in the Worthington building when Angel rejects the cure that he was just going along with it because it's what his father wanted, and he realized that it wasn't who he was.

What happens after that, however, is lackluster.

The flashback scene, the scene of Angel rejecting the cure, those were brilliant. And it was pretty nice when Angel appeared at the school. And when you see him overhear Wolverine telling Storm and Beast about Magneto's plan, it seems like something is in store for him.

And then... it's not... he just shows up... at the most convenient time ever to save his father who was tossed over the ledge.

That scene is a perfect example of bad film making, in my opinion. On the commentary, Ratner thought it was some brilliant thing to have him just appear. Kinberg and Penn were just kind of like "Um... no"

Payoff would have been him joining the X-Men, to go to Alcatraz to fight to protect his father.

What we got was just, meh. The flashback scene, Angel rejecting the cure... those were brilliant! A brilliant set up for absolutley no pay off. So he could save his father conveniently? Um... no.

It's another one of those "The character development was there... the arc was there... it was a 'do just enough to get the job done'... but more would have definatley enriched the story" moments.

Aah. Somebody who knows how storytelling works. x3 did a poor job on telling their stories. They had great ideas, but they do not know how to execute it. Always remember that it is not the story that matters, its how you tell the story.

They had the dark phoenix story in their hands, they had the aftermath of the pyro betrayal storline, they had the chance to make cyclops shine this time around. Singer gave them everything they ever wanted, but they do not know how to use it.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Aah. Somebody who knows how storytelling works. x3 did a poor job on telling their stories. They had great ideas, but they do not know how to execute it. Always remember that it is not the story that matters, its how you tell the story.

They had the dark phoenix story in their hands, they had the aftermath of the pyro betrayal storline, they had the chance to make cyclops shine this time around. Singer gave them everything they ever wanted, but they do not know how to use it.

Right again fella, Singer couldnt have given them a better set-up for an amazing 3rd movie with the superb X2, but they chose to ignore everything that made X2 great, and depended instead on action scenes and special effects (that sometimes werent so special) and worked towards a release date instead of a good movie.

 

[flavio_lebeau]

I don't really understand how can someone defend Angel in X3...it's the icon, the biggest example of everything the movie represents, IMO. Great ideas, poor, very poor execution, no attention to developing characters, but rather using them for fake, forced "soap-opera like" emotional scenes and special effects. Except for the flashback, it's all trash can when it comes to Angel.

 

[britrogue]

Personally, I don't understand what Angel was even doing in the film, other than fulfill a fan's desire to see him on the big screen. His part was pretty damned pointless.

 

[04nbod]

i thoght angel kitty and collossus took time away from characters that needed it and were not required in the story arc

 

[britrogue]

I agree. They just seemed completely surplus to requirements. Ok, leave Kitty in for a reason as to why Rogue takes the cure, but Colossus and Angel did NOT need to be there. And the effects they used on Colossus sucked period.

 

[The Guard]

While we're on the subject...someone want to point out to me the "fully realized" arcs found in X-MEN and X2? Other than for Wolverine, there isn't a lot of actual, structured character DEVELOPMENT in the previous films. There were character MOMENTS, but not a whole lot of development.

Angel's character in X3 was useless. What was the point? He had no real emotional scenes and the conflicting scenes were quickly over. He offered nothing to the plot and was misused terribly.

No real emotional scenes? Go look up the definition of emotion. You're telling me a kid crying because he can't rid himself of he's a mutant isn't emotional? A kid getting scared when someone tries to cure him of his mutation, and breaking free of his father's impositions?

And Angel did save his dads life, but that was WAY after he had already rejected the cure for reasons we'll never know.

Maybe because he was happy being himself? Can you really not read between the lines when a filmmaker asks you to?

What Angel's character lacked wasn't character development. It was payoff.

I'd argue that him rejecting the cure and seeking out help for his issues IS the payoff.

Payoff would have been him joining the X-Men, to go to Alcatraz to fight to protect his father.

He did. How realistic is it to expect him to suddenly fight, though?

What weight? We didn't need Angel as that pressured character because we already had Rogue.

So only one character needs to feel the societal pressures caused by their mutation and the cure? Let's just do away with Beast's entire arc while we're at it. And why bother making Magneto/Mystique react to the cure at all?

And the difference between Nightcrawler and Angel is that NC actually did something in the movie besides teleporting around and starring in a useless arc that did nothing to forward the movie.

You know, not every goddamn character moment in a movie has to "drive the plot" (Did Nightcrawler's "In the circus...I didn't hate them, I pitied them" drive the plot? No, it simply revealed part of the film's message and something about his character). You're all so hung up on what you think you know about "structure" you don't even realize what it takes to make a film feel relevant and human anymore.

 

[The Guard]

Was Angel's part brilliantly written and conceived? No. He was a cameo. Take it for what it is, a metaphorical representation of a young's mutants struggle with societal pressures, and move the hell on.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Was Angel's part brilliantly written and conceived? No. He was a cameo. Take it for what it is, a metaphorical representation of a young's mutants struggle with societal pressures, and move the hell on.

Maybe you need to move the hell on and stop trying to change everyones mind who has a different opinion than you. No one is forcing you to go into any threads.

Your exhibiting troll like behavior by coming here and starting trouble with anyone who dares to say anything negative about X3. So maybe you need to move on?

 

[kg576094]

While we're on the subject...someone want to point out to me the "fully realized" arcs found in X-MEN and X2? Other than for Wolverine, there isn't a lot of actual, structured character DEVELOPMENT in the previous films. There were character MOMENTS, but not a whole lot of development.

Please refer to this

 

[X-Maniac]

Personally, I don't understand what Angel was even doing in the film, other than fulfill a fan's desire to see him on the big screen. His part was pretty damned pointless.

Can I ask if you would please read books a little more, take English Literature, or something that makes you understand how stories are told.

Rather than the the cure being just SOMETHING that SOMEONE SOMEWHERE has developed, there is a personal interest in it. The source of that cure is a mutant. And the man who developed that cure was driven to do it because his own son is a mutant and he wants to give him a better life.

That is not pointless. There is no way you can argue this at all. You are wrong.

Whether you liked how Angel was portrayed, the dialogue, screentime, etc, is a matter of opinion but Angel's role in this movie is not a matter of opinion. It's an obvious fact that couldn't be more obvious if it punched you right in the face.

Why is he there? To make the cure something real and human, to make it a character rather than an concept. This should be about people, not chemicals and scientists.

Let's put it another way. You hear of plans by a govenrment to deduct large sums of money from people's wages. Do you care? Maybe you do, maybe you don't. But then you hear that they will be taking money from your best friend's wages and they will lose their home and their marriage will crumble, or even worse you hear they will take away YOUR wages. What was once a distant thing that didn't affect you now does affect you - and so you care about it, you want to stop it, your emotions are involved in it.

This is basic stuff, stuff that is so basic that I shouldn't even have to be writing it down on this page as though I'm talking to a five-year-old. I had given you more credit than this.

Let's go back to X1. Magneto wants to mutate the world leaders at Liberty Island. The X-Men want to stop him. But things are stepped up to another level when he plans to use Rogue - someone that the X-Men know very well - to carry out his plan and she will most likely die as a result. Suddenly it's much more urgent and important and emotional to stop what he is doing.

 

[X-Maniac]

Please refer to this

Those are just more opinions.

I had a quick look. Just as we got no background story on Mystique, Toad, Sabretooth or Deathstryke in X1 and X2, so we got none on Multiple Man, Arclight, Callisto or Juggernaut in X3. Why? Because they are henchmen, their backgrounds are not important to the bigger picture.

You cannot seriously expect back story on every character. The person who made that post is less than intelligent.

 

[BMM]

Those are just more opinions.

I had a quick look. Just as we got no background story on Mystique, Toad, Sabretooth or Deathstryke in X1 and X2, so we got none on Multiple Man, Arclight, Callisto or Juggernaut in X3. Why? Because they are henchmen, their backgrounds are not important to the bigger picture.

You cannot seriously expect back story on every character. The person who made that post is less than intelligent.

No, but you can at least expect them to have names . . . poor Callisto .

 

[X-Maniac]

No, but you can at least expect them to have names . . . poor Calisto .

I agree on that one.

As Magneto goes toward's Xavier's house...

to Juggernaut 'No one gets inside' (as in movie)
then to everyone else as he looks at each 'Callisto, Arclight, Quill, stay on your guard'...

 

[BMM]

Good God, I spelled her name wrong in my initial post . . . she's just not receiving any love.

Yep, whenever a character is set to replace another character that has received two films worth of buildup, which includes an increasingly dynamic, fun, and insightful relationship with Magneto, it is best to give her a name.

 

[flavio_lebeau]

Good God, I spelled her name wrong in my initial post . . . she's just not receiving any love.

Yep, whenever a character is set to replace another character that has received two films worth of buildup, which includes an increasingly dynamic, fun, and insightful relationship with Magneto, it is best to give her a name.

Callisto isn't even 10% as smart, sexy, agile, selfish, lustful, deadly and beautiful as Mystique.

 

[gambitfire]

She was bustier though.

and Arclight was not as attractive as toad.

Sabertooth was more interesting that juggs.

and well quills.....................................

quills was there.

 

[flavio_lebeau]

between Arclight and Toad, i'd stay with my hands

 

[gambitfire]

between Arclight and Toad, i'd stay with my hands

As if you have any other choice.


LOL, j/k im sorry

 

[flavio_lebeau]

As if you have any other choice.


LOL, j/k im sorry

lol, no prob.

 

[gambitfire]

lol, no prob.

As you may have noticed i have a goof tendency to joke around.

At which point it becomes spamming and i must be stopped...............i'll stop.

 

[flavio_lebeau]

As you may have noticed i have a goof tendency to joke around.

At which point it becomes spamming and i must be stopped...............i'll stop.

you better

 

[kg576094]

Those are just more opinions.

I had a quick look. Just as we got no background story on Mystique, Toad, Sabretooth or Deathstryke in X1 and X2, so we got none on Multiple Man, Arclight, Callisto or Juggernaut in X3. Why? Because they are henchmen, their backgrounds are not important to the bigger picture.

You cannot seriously expect back story on every character. The person who made that post is less than intelligent.

I hope u do understand that character dev is morethan jus giving characters their background story, it's also abt giving them their thought processes & motivations as well which make them interesting. For instance, why did Angel reject the cure when they have him cutting his feathers in the first scene which is really self-amputation, not even Rogue who nearly killed her boyfriend did such a thing to hurt herself; how abt Beast who had before attempted to make a cure that turns him blue and furry instead, why didn't he take the cure; Why was Storm so against the cure when she has a student like Rogue and friends like Beast who has so much problems with their mutancy; Also why is she so hostile towards Jean when Jean is part of the family/team and clearly in need of help because of her schnizopenia, it's like only Wolverine bother to care; Then what's the purpose of the Phoenix in Magneto's war, has the Phoenix fallen in love with Magneto like in the TAS? While the Jean in the Phoenix was confused & lost, the Phoenix should have a clear objective & motivations in the movie. The major problem with X3 is that the movie has all the big-time actions but what's clearly missing is the thought processes & motivations behind these actions.

 

[chaseter]

Those are just more opinions.

I had a quick look. Just as we got no background story on Mystique, Toad, Sabretooth or Deathstryke in X1 and X2, so we got none on Multiple Man, Arclight, Callisto or Juggernaut in X3. Why? Because they are henchmen, their backgrounds are not important to the bigger picture.

You cannot seriously expect back story on every character. The person who made that post is less than intelligent.

I agree...you cannot expect every single character to be developed fully and given background...especially henchmen as you say. They do not drive they story, the major playors do...Xavier, Wolverine, Magneto, Jean, etc... I mean it would be great to have some info on Mystique, Juggernaut, etc... but it is not expected.