Watching X2 again, I could cry!

[xii22_loop]

Also, you do know Singer was going to shoot, Cyclops, Storm and Jean origin scene's in X1 before Fox cut the budget back dont you?

YES! everybody seems to forget about that.

you can get sort of an idea of what they'd be like from some of the early scripts that are on the internet of X1.

i might as well post it, taken from simplyscripts.com (http://www.simplyscripts.com/xyz.html), this is from 1 of the february 24, 1999 draft script of X1 by Ed Solomon, Chris McQuarrie, Tom DeSanto, Bryan Singer.

this occurs right after the Magneto as a child in the nazi camp part:

-----------------------

ANGLE ON:

The boy's parents watch him as he -- as they, are taken
away.

The rest of their story is as you would expect.

EXT. SKY - DAY

Bright, bright blue framing a blinding white sun.

PAN DOWN AGAIN TO REVEAL:

The cracked, drought-stricken soil of nowhere.

TITLES:

KENYA - 1978

A group of children at play. Tribal children who,
without the help of the titles, could be from any age.

They run through a tiny village of tents, playing. Every
child holds a long reed-like stick and they chase each
other playing their version of tag.

As each child is tapped, they chase the others. Each
trying to avoid being "it", though never going far enough
away to miss the fun.

One girl in particular. A PRETTY GIRL OF 12, with
unusual white hair, is tagged and immediately shunned.

She chases kids this way and that, but to no avail. She
is not strong enough, nor agile enough, to win.

She tumbles and lands on her stick, snapping it. She
stands and, when the children see that her stick is
broken, they begin to giggle.

The giggles become laughter and the laughter becomes a
taunt, and before we even realize, the inherent cruelty
of children let loose becomes evident.

They have now formed a circle, at first avoiding her
touch with distance, but now growing tighter with menace.
In the unspoken manner of children at prey, the group
begins to chant in their native tongue - a song we have
not heard but sung in a way none-too inviting. They
begin to poke at her with the reeds, driving her back.

The girl now moves to the center of the circle, no longer
wishing to tag anyone.

ONE DEVIOUS CHILD seems to get an idea. He takes his
stick and smacks it across her shoulder. She turns to
face the child and another swings his stick across her
back with a solid THWACK. Before long, mob rule gives
way and all the kids are swinging at her and laughing.

It grows to the brink of frenzy, the laughing and the
shouting not too unlike the noise of the previous scene.

So much so, we may miss the first flake of snow. The
children certainly do. It is snowing for a good ten
seconds before the last of them stops.

By then, the snow is thick as flies and wafting down to
melt instantly on the hot African soil that has never
seen snow before.

ANGLE ON:

Adults come out of their huts and in from the fields and
the whole of the village is soon gathered around the
little girl, staring up from the clear blue sky and the
snow that falls from nowhere. From nothing.

One by one, all eyes fall on the little girl and the
looks of curiosity become looks of fear. Of
superstition.

Punctuated by a solid thump.

And then another.

AN OLD MAN looks down at his feet and sees a tiny,
misshapen ball of ice, no bigger than his eye. He looks
at it, bites it, then pops it in his mouth - breath
turning to steam.

Another such chunk of ice pops him on the head. THE
CROWD LAUGHS.

They look up again and see that mixed with the snow are
tiny pellets of hail, seeming to increase in number as
the snow mysteriously wanes.

And the pellets are getting larger. Until they land as
hunks.

The white haired girl drops to the ground and covers her
head as hailstones the size of baseballs plow into the
Earth.

Before long, tents are collapsing and panic ensues.

And all along the white haired girl sits huddled in the
dust, crying.

As hailstones fall in a circle around her, never coming
closer than then a few feet or so.

INT. HIGH SCHOOL GYMNASIUM - NIGHT

ONE MORE SKY. This one a backdrop. Cheap paint and
tissue paper hung with hooks on a wall just behind the
basket on a full court.

As we pull back, we see the skyline of New York, crudely
made out with its silhouette buildings of dark gray and
black - windows of yellow.

Among the famous landmarks represented is the Statue of
Liberty, complete with a real light bulb burning in the
torch.

We are at a prom. The theme is RHAPSODY IN BLUE and the
decor has made tragic efforts to show it. The
tablecloths are blue, the napkins are blue - far too many
of the tuxes are powder blue, and the blue eye shadow is
as heavy as expected.

Peter Gabriel's "In Your Eyes" gives painful indication
of the era, but here it is, nonetheless:

SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA - 1986

MOVE ACROSS THE FLOOR and through the swaying, clutching,
sweating dancers to the bathroom.

Through the door to the usual -

INT. BOYS BATHROOM - NIGHT

Several boys are here, bow ties undone - unclipped in
most cases. Smoking, drinking from whatever inventive
container was used to smuggle in booze. Breath freshener
and Visine are the chaser.

Some of the guys are rolling joints while others make the
sad effort to wave smoke away. Who are they kidding?
It's a fog in here.

MOVE DOWN THE ROW OF TOILET STALLS to one in particular.
Here we find A FRECKLED KID standing in front of mirror,
clearly holding himself up from the effect of God knows
what.

He talks to his friend in the he stall behind him.

FRECKLED KID
Man, what's the matter with you?

His friend is on the toilet with his head in his hands.
He seems to be in some pain. He is SCOTT SUMMERS - AGE
17.

FRECKLED KID (cont'd)
Dude. Lighten up. She's just a girl.
You just gotta-

SCOTT
No, my eyes... my eyes are killing me.

The Freckled kid offers a small plastic bottle.

FRECKLED KID
You want some Visine, man?

SCOTT
My... eyes...

The freckled kid looks and sees that Scott's eyes are
watering so badly that tears are literally streaming
through his fingers.

He goes back to the mirror to look at his own.

SCOTT
... they're burning...

The freckled kid turns back to him.

FRECKLED KID
Dude, how much did you smoke?

SCOTT
I didn't smoke anything.

Scott looks up, taking his hands away, revealing for an
instant that his eyes are merely bright red embers in his
head. Featureless but for the color.

Freckles takes a step back.

INT. GYM - OUTSIDE BOYS ROOM - NIGHT

A blinding flash of light shows through the frosted glass
in the double door and cuts through the crack into the
dark of the gym.

All who see it are stunned. Frozen. A lingering moment
of confusion, then:

BOOM, the doors to the Boys Room burst open and the
occupants scatter into the gym.

INT. GYM - STALL - NIGHT

Freckles is still there, legs locked.

FRECKLES' P.O.V.

He looks at Scott who is now crying meekly in the stall,
covering his eyes again -- afraid to open them.

The door of the stall across from him swings closed TO
REVEAL:

A HOLE, PUNCHED THROUGH THE STALL DOOR framing Scott's
face perfectly. Pull back to reveal that the hole
continues through the wall, into the girl's bathroom next
door.

In the corner several girls huddle together, they are
afraid.

INT. SENATE HEARING ROOM - DAY

Packed with reporters and photographers. There's a dais -
a raised panel of senators - and a second, lower panel.
This is where the "experts" are testifying.

Panning across the faces of several G.O.P. creeps as they
watch something with varying degrees of interest.

TITLES:

WASHINGTON D.C. - THE NOT TOO DISTANT FUTURE

A woman's voice holds over the proceedings. It is the
voice of JEAN GREY - whom we will soon meet.

As she is speaking, we come to a large screen television
at one end of the room.

-------

And that brings us to Jean at the senate.

P.S. goddamn fox, most of all the problems and things the movies lacked was because Fox was cuting the budget.

 

[Goddessreicho]

YES! everybody seems to forget about that.

you can get sort of an idea of what they'd be like from some of the early scripts that are on the internet of X1.

i might as well post it, taken from simplyscripts.com (http://www.simplyscripts.com/xyz.html), this is from 1 of the february 24, 1999 draft script of X1 by Ed Solomon, Chris McQuarrie, Tom DeSanto, Bryan Singer.

this occurs right after the Magneto as a child in the nazi camp part:

-----------------------

ANGLE ON:

The boy's parents watch him as he -- as they, are taken
away.

The rest of their story is as you would expect.

EXT. SKY - DAY

Bright, bright blue framing a blinding white sun.

PAN DOWN AGAIN TO REVEAL:

The cracked, drought-stricken soil of nowhere.

TITLES:

KENYA - 1978

A group of children at play. Tribal children who,
without the help of the titles, could be from any age.

They run through a tiny village of tents, playing. Every
child holds a long reed-like stick and they chase each
other playing their version of tag.

As each child is tapped, they chase the others. Each
trying to avoid being "it", though never going far enough
away to miss the fun.

One girl in particular. A PRETTY GIRL OF 12, with
unusual white hair, is tagged and immediately shunned.

She chases kids this way and that, but to no avail. She
is not strong enough, nor agile enough, to win.

She tumbles and lands on her stick, snapping it. She
stands and, when the children see that her stick is
broken, they begin to giggle.

The giggles become laughter and the laughter becomes a
taunt, and before we even realize, the inherent cruelty
of children let loose becomes evident.

They have now formed a circle, at first avoiding her
touch with distance, but now growing tighter with menace.
In the unspoken manner of children at prey, the group
begins to chant in their native tongue - a song we have
not heard but sung in a way none-too inviting. They
begin to poke at her with the reeds, driving her back.

The girl now moves to the center of the circle, no longer
wishing to tag anyone.

ONE DEVIOUS CHILD seems to get an idea. He takes his
stick and smacks it across her shoulder. She turns to
face the child and another swings his stick across her
back with a solid THWACK. Before long, mob rule gives
way and all the kids are swinging at her and laughing.

It grows to the brink of frenzy, the laughing and the
shouting not too unlike the noise of the previous scene.

So much so, we may miss the first flake of snow. The
children certainly do. It is snowing for a good ten
seconds before the last of them stops.

By then, the snow is thick as flies and wafting down to
melt instantly on the hot African soil that has never
seen snow before.

ANGLE ON:

Adults come out of their huts and in from the fields and
the whole of the village is soon gathered around the
little girl, staring up from the clear blue sky and the
snow that falls from nowhere. From nothing.

One by one, all eyes fall on the little girl and the
looks of curiosity become looks of fear. Of
superstition.

Punctuated by a solid thump.

And then another.

AN OLD MAN looks down at his feet and sees a tiny,
misshapen ball of ice, no bigger than his eye. He looks
at it, bites it, then pops it in his mouth - breath
turning to steam.

Another such chunk of ice pops him on the head. THE
CROWD LAUGHS.

They look up again and see that mixed with the snow are
tiny pellets of hail, seeming to increase in number as
the snow mysteriously wanes.

And the pellets are getting larger. Until they land as
hunks.

The white haired girl drops to the ground and covers her
head as hailstones the size of baseballs plow into the
Earth.

Before long, tents are collapsing and panic ensues.

And all along the white haired girl sits huddled in the
dust, crying.

As hailstones fall in a circle around her, never coming
closer than then a few feet or so.

INT. HIGH SCHOOL GYMNASIUM - NIGHT

ONE MORE SKY. This one a backdrop. Cheap paint and
tissue paper hung with hooks on a wall just behind the
basket on a full court.

As we pull back, we see the skyline of New York, crudely
made out with its silhouette buildings of dark gray and
black - windows of yellow.

Among the famous landmarks represented is the Statue of
Liberty, complete with a real light bulb burning in the
torch.

We are at a prom. The theme is RHAPSODY IN BLUE and the
decor has made tragic efforts to show it. The
tablecloths are blue, the napkins are blue - far too many
of the tuxes are powder blue, and the blue eye shadow is
as heavy as expected.

Peter Gabriel's "In Your Eyes" gives painful indication
of the era, but here it is, nonetheless:

SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA - 1986

MOVE ACROSS THE FLOOR and through the swaying, clutching,
sweating dancers to the bathroom.

Through the door to the usual -

INT. BOYS BATHROOM - NIGHT

Several boys are here, bow ties undone - unclipped in
most cases. Smoking, drinking from whatever inventive
container was used to smuggle in booze. Breath freshener
and Visine are the chaser.

Some of the guys are rolling joints while others make the
sad effort to wave smoke away. Who are they kidding?
It's a fog in here.

MOVE DOWN THE ROW OF TOILET STALLS to one in particular.
Here we find A FRECKLED KID standing in front of mirror,
clearly holding himself up from the effect of God knows
what.

He talks to his friend in the he stall behind him.

FRECKLED KID
Man, what's the matter with you?

His friend is on the toilet with his head in his hands.
He seems to be in some pain. He is SCOTT SUMMERS - AGE
17.

FRECKLED KID (cont'd)
Dude. Lighten up. She's just a girl.
You just gotta-

SCOTT
No, my eyes... my eyes are killing me.

The Freckled kid offers a small plastic bottle.

FRECKLED KID
You want some Visine, man?

SCOTT
My... eyes...

The freckled kid looks and sees that Scott's eyes are
watering so badly that tears are literally streaming
through his fingers.

He goes back to the mirror to look at his own.

SCOTT
... they're burning...

The freckled kid turns back to him.

FRECKLED KID
Dude, how much did you smoke?

SCOTT
I didn't smoke anything.

Scott looks up, taking his hands away, revealing for an
instant that his eyes are merely bright red embers in his
head. Featureless but for the color.

Freckles takes a step back.

INT. GYM - OUTSIDE BOYS ROOM - NIGHT

A blinding flash of light shows through the frosted glass
in the double door and cuts through the crack into the
dark of the gym.

All who see it are stunned. Frozen. A lingering moment
of confusion, then:

BOOM, the doors to the Boys Room burst open and the
occupants scatter into the gym.

INT. GYM - STALL - NIGHT

Freckles is still there, legs locked.

FRECKLES' P.O.V.

He looks at Scott who is now crying meekly in the stall,
covering his eyes again -- afraid to open them.

The door of the stall across from him swings closed TO
REVEAL:

A HOLE, PUNCHED THROUGH THE STALL DOOR framing Scott's
face perfectly. Pull back to reveal that the hole
continues through the wall, into the girl's bathroom next
door.

In the corner several girls huddle together, they are
afraid.

----------
And that brings us to Jean at the senate.

P.S. goddamn fox, most of all the problems and things the movies lacked was because Fox was cuting the budget.

But...

It's no where near being close. They NEVER had any intention of getting it right.

What about Ororo and Scott being orphans? It explains why they fight to keep the X-men together as a family.

Ororo being teased??? WTF, she was WORSHIPPED for pete's sake! What about her parents being killed, or her mother's pagan preisthood, or her father being an American?

What about Scott's father Cosair, or the orphanage he was in, OR HIS BROTHER?

Singer and his writers had no intention of representing the characters they have been reconized as. God, I can't believe people wonder why I hate these movies. Look at the "missing" orgin scenes and see why. Scott died before anything could be known about him, and not his unappreciate girlfriend, and Ororo was made to not be cared about. Well, watch me not care any more.

These movies can continue to be my coasters.

 

[BMM]

Ha. Script drafts make me laugh. Sometimes they also make me appreciate why some ideas never leave the page. While I would like more background given to the characters, I'm kind of glad they decided to cut a sequence of origin scenes like these. I think Magneto's is better, and it's much more accurate. I'll let these ideas rest in peace along with the likes of the Storm and Wolverine sex-fest and Wolverine running around saving the day with Leech hidden in a knapsack on his back.

 

[xii22_loop]

yeah Magneto's was better.

But atleast was that had planned for Storms was sorta vital to the plot, or her being 'afraid' of people.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

You cannot expect Angel to equate to Nightcrawler - this isn't a formula you can apply to characters. Nightcrawler was a secondary character, Angel was a tertiary character, an extended cameo. There are many more characters in X3 than in X2 because it X3 intended to show a wider mutant world existing, which was necessary to then lead into Magneto's building of a mutant army so that the story arcs could move towards a climax. It's impossible to imagine a mutant army existing within the story structure of X2, because the story was smaller and involved covert activities, background actions, simmering tensions and a Brotherhood of a massive two members right till Pyro joins at the end - it was all about things going on in secret and behind the scenes. X3 isn't.

Regarding Angel, we do see that Angel as a child tried to hack his wings off, locked in the bathroom with an array of knives. We see his father's shock and disappointment, we see Warren hiding himself from his father's reaction. This scene then cuts straight into the opening credits showing scientific research, linking Angel to the cure. We then see Worthington Labs, implying a large industry run by Angel's father, who is therefore motivated to find a cure. We see Angel as an adult, we see his reluctance as he enters that room and is strapped down. We also see his full wings neatly hidden under his coat, they are not hacked off, therefore he has learned to live with them and try to lead a normal life. We see a decision made - a 'coming out' - as the cure presents a life-changing choice, a 'now or never' moment. He bursts free. He then seeks a place of safety. He later appears at Alcatraz, saving his father...showing that what his father considered a disease can be wonderful, life-saving, a gift. He appears literally and unexpectedly like an angel, as they do in religious texts.

Angel was the symbol of the cure (in fact, the reason for it). He stands for everything that is different, and for the fact that it can be angelic and beautiful to be different, to be a mutant. His role is also symbolic of freedom (when he flies past Leech's containment room) and a wider acceptance of mutants (flying over SF at the end).

For a cameo role, he played a vital and symbolic part in the story. If you cannot see that, you need to watch it again. We've gone over and over and over and over Angel's role on here. I do not know why I have to explain it again. It should be obvious by now, if you had any comprehension skills. If you can read subtexts and themes in SR, then you sure as hell are capable of reading them in X3.

I've seen X3 7 times and i have no desire to watch it again thankyou. Angel was advertised as having a large role, Kinberg and Penn said he would have a large role, he didnt, he was a glorified cameo at best. I have plenty of comprehension skills sunshine, but there is a loack of comprehension in X3. And dont get me started on him showing up at the end, how the hell did he get to SF from NY so fast in the first place? Again poor film-making.

Someone with Storm's powers and proud, regal background does not need to be afraid. The movie screwed her up, simple as that. She is not a simpering, wimpering scaredycat, she has a dramatic power over the elements. The X-Men movie writers failed to grasp the character's unique perspective. And so do you. Her fear makes no sense, within the movie itself and when compared with the source material. Storm is not a timid mouse. End of that.

Even the most powerful people in the world have fears, Magneto if just as powerful if not more powerful than she is, but he still fears humans and Pheonix in X3. And you mentioning the source material now? So when you defend X3 saying things need to be changed from the comics and film is a different medium, but that doesnt count when you wanna argue a point huh?

They wanted to shoot origins for Storm and Cyclops. Both origins are in the novelisation. They were cut but it's still no excuse for not including something more in the dialogue.

Obviously Singer didnt have the time to shoot anything like that, otherwise he would have, with Singer, story and character always comes before anything else.

Circumstances dear boy, circumstances. You are very unworldly and seem to know little of how things work in real life. It's probably because you, like many on here, are very young and spend too much time in front of the computer! Straight men locked up together in prisons end up having same-sex relationships because of the situation, how shocking and out of nowhere is that!

I am very young and spend too much time in front of a computer? I'm 24 and only go on the computer in work or university because i dont have access at home, so there is you argument shot down.

Bobby and Kitty are in each other's company more because of the fact that she, and also Colossus, are being trained to be full X-Men members in this movie. Circumstances push them closer together. There is an affectionate friendship there, clearly shown when he takes her out on the pond. And perhaps their hormones are raging as teenagers' hormones do. They share some nice moments that do not amount to anything but are perceived by Rogue as what she wants to have - the ability to hug and touch with no fears. Bobby is quite entitled to flirt, it's what teenage kids do, and he was quick enough to flirt with her when she arrived. Don't be so judgemental and fixed about everything.

So why isnt Kitty attracted to Colossus then, or Bobby to Jubilee? There are lots of boys and girls at the school who by your rules should be attracted to each other.

Keep dreaming. Bryan already had to be reined in with the budget on SR, it was wildly overblown considering the end result. Millions spent on sequences that were never seen. He was given far too much freedom. More control and discipline is needed - look at the amount X1 was made for, it's quite possible to use money in a better way than he did on SR. That Krypton sequence would have made a massive difference and also set up a sci-fi element to the movie, making it easier to introduce more sci-fi outer space stuff in the sequel. For the sequel to suddenly be more sci-fi is a vast change in direction from the human melodrama of the first movie. Also, Warners are insisting on more action, which effectively says the first movie didn't have enough dynamism (which is a widespread criticism).

I've no need to dream lad, a sequel is happening and BS said from the start there would be more action, before any final BO numbers were in.

Quite clearly, he broke free and swiped aside the guards in an unexpected show of his strength, a reaction created by the adrenaline of stress. His father's shocked reaction at his son's massive outstretched wings showed this was something new that hadn't been seen before. Part of his coming out, becoming an adult, standing proudly as a mutant and realising the extent of his powers. Simple. And obvious.

He was a tertiary character. We saw what we needed to see. You need to buy some of those 'dot to dot' puzzle books so that you can learn to connect the dots on screen as well.

We didnt see what we needed to see though, we didnt see why he suddenly couldnt live without his wings. And its not like he had no choice but to take the cure, he could have just not gone to the cure clinic in the first place. but again we dont know. Just because someone's views dont agree with your own doesnt make them stupid boyo.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Ha. Script drafts make me laugh. Sometimes they also make me appreciate why some ideas never leave the page. While I would like more background given to the characters, I'm kind of glad they decided to cut a sequence of origin scenes like these. I think Magneto's is better, and it's much more accurate. I'll let these ideas rest in peace along with the likes of the Storm and Wolverine sex-fest and Wolverine running around saving the day with Leech hidden in a knapsack on his back.

I'm sure Singer would have expanded on these origin's though in later movies. I'm pretty sure Cyclops was set for a lot more back story in Singers X3.

 

[flavio_lebeau]

But...

It's no where near being close. They NEVER had any intention of getting it right.

What about Ororo and Scott being orphans? It explains why they fight to keep the X-men together as a family.

Ororo being teased??? WTF, she was WORSHIPPED for pete's sake! What about her parents being killed, or her mother's pagan preisthood, or her father being an American?

What about Scott's father Cosair, or the orphanage he was in, OR HIS BROTHER?

Singer and his writers had no intention of representing the characters they have been reconized as. God, I can't believe people wonder why I hate these movies. Look at the "missing" orgin scenes and see why. Scott died before anything could be known about him, and not his unappreciate girlfriend, and Ororo was made to not be cared about. Well, watch me not care any more.

These movies can continue to be my coasters.

Wasn't Ororo worshiped when she a teenager/early adult? That part is when she first manifests her powers. It could be very well the truth. As for the other parts, maybe it could be done in a spin-off, but I don't think the movie could go that deep on everyone's past.

 

[Goddessreicho]

Flav, you know that Ro was never singled out and teased. How could she have been? She was raised in a small tight theiving community. They stuck together.

Sure that may not seem relevent, but when looking at the bigger picture it does. How she spent her childhood is exactly how she lives as an adult with the X-men.

A little bit of research on the writers and director's part could have told them that. Storm doesn't need a bloody spin off, just a few minutes and a couple of lines to tell us why she acts the way she does, instead of appearing to be an randomly uncaring bit**.

If they didn't want to go that route, which would have been fine with her fans who wanted to see a throwback to her being a thief, they could have focused some time on her being nearly raped as a child. Yeah, that could have explained her hatred and fear of humans.

That crap they had in mind for Scott and Ororo for X1 was no better than what they did to Logan in X2 or Jean in X3.

BMM is write, it needed to hit the editing room floor. If I had seen that crap I would have walked out in X1, like I did in X2.

 

[X-Maniac]

I'm sure Singer would have expanded on these origin's though in later movies. I'm pretty sure Cyclops was set for a lot more back story in Singers X3.

You're 'sure' of this and 'pretty sure' of that, but you present no evidence; and, indeed, there is no evidence. When will this blind defence of Singer stop?
He's not a god, and he may not have given us the things you say he would have.

The only consolation with that Storm origin is that it goes some way to explaining the fear she has in X1 and X2. But that origin is not accurate, and that fear is out of character.

 

[Goddessreicho]

You're 'sure' of this and 'pretty sure' of that, but you present no evidence; and, indeed, there is no evidence. When will this blind defence of Singer stop?
He's not a god, and he may not have given us the things you say he would have.

The only consolation with that Storm origin is that it goes some way to explaining the fear she has in X1 and X2. But that origin is not accurate, and that fear is out of character.

Finally something I can agree wholeheartly on. One of the reasons why hearing some of the "meaningful" dialoge with Nightcrawler is a slap in the face and so GD embrassing, and further proff of why Storm was and will always be SINO, no matter who is portraying her. THAT WASN'T STORM. Storm has never been afraid enough where it controls the way she lives.

This is so important why a remotely accurate orgin discussion or scene is essential for what should be an unessesary redemtion of her character.

But we know it won't happen because the core members outside of Jean and Logan will never be plot essential enough to have a backstory.

 

[X-Maniac]

I've seen X3 7 times and i have no desire to watch it again thankyou. Angel was advertised as having a large role, Kinberg and Penn said he would have a large role, he didnt, he was a glorified cameo at best. I have plenty of comprehension skills sunshine, but there is a loack of comprehension in X3. And dont get me started on him showing up at the end, how the hell did he get to SF from NY so fast in the first place? Again poor film-making.

Maybe Angel originally had a larger role? Who knows. Irrespective of this, we have to go on what is in the movie. As to how he showed up at the end, you are fixating on something that is, ultimately, irrelevant. Firstly, he made a dramatic and unexpected appearance... like an angel! (just as angels appear unexpectedly and mysteriously in religious writings); secondly, unless you can present to me the exact time that the X-Men left the mansion, the exact time that Angel appeared at Alcatraz and prove without question that it was impossible for him to have done the journey, then there is no real argument. He obviously didn't flap his way there, and his father is a billionaire businessman who no doubt has private jets... so there are possibilities. It's a question people can ask if they are either fixated on nitpicks or if they miss the theme of the scene. We've discussed this to death elsewhere on here.

To have him fly there with the X-Men in a uniform would be a rather fast progression to a full team member.

DVD extras show a scene of Angel fighting in the final battle, so they obviously considered that possibility.

There is nothing wrong with him being a glorified cameo. Cameo roles do exist. He served as a 'backdrop' for the cure story, a symbol for it and for mutant rights. In a multi-character movie that was all about mutant masses gathering for a war, you cannot expect all characters to get full development, just as we don't know everything about Deathstryke, Toad, Sabretooth...

You're being unrealistic and pouring hate on to the movie because you are biased against it and determined to find fault. If you really have watched it seven times (that's more times than me, and I liked it!), then you really should be taking in more of the themes and subtleties, even if you don't like the style of storytelling.

Even the most powerful people in the world have fears, Magneto if just as powerful if not more powerful than she is, but he still fears humans and Pheonix in X3. And you mentioning the source material now? So when you defend X3 saying things need to be changed from the comics and film is a different medium, but that doesnt count when you wanna argue a point huh?

I said that her fear made little sense EITHER within the movie OR when compared with the source. They made an issue out of Storm's fear in X1 and X2, and yet here is a woman who can channel lightning, summon tornadoes and lash out with the elements as at the end of X1. The character was badly portrayed, written by people who don't understand Storm at all and obviously had never read a comic in their lives (and surprise surprise the same criticism is levelled against Superman, which has the same writers!)

I would also question your assertion that Magneto has a similar level of fear. And I would think anyone would be fearful of Phoenix, given her power levels and instability.

Obviously Singer didnt have the time to shoot anything like that, otherwise he would have, with Singer, story and character always comes before anything else.

Yes, that's his thing - story and character. And that's not a bad thing to focus on. But these are not original characters that he has created. They have an iconic and long-established history in 40 years of comicbook stories. The story and characters have to draw on the original material - not the cartoons, but the original comicbooks. Anyone who'd read stories featuring Storm or most of the others would not create the versions we saw on screen.

I am very young and spend too much time in front of a computer? I'm 24 and only go on the computer in work or university because i dont have access at home, so there is you argument shot down.

In fact, you support my argument well. Your age, the fact you're still at uni, your inability to listen (I have to keep repeating things and still you don't listen) and the things you say all confirm to me what I think about your unworldliness and inexperience of life.

So why isnt Kitty attracted to Colossus then, or Bobby to Jubilee? There are lots of boys and girls at the school who by your rules should be attracted to each other.

Here's more evidence of my having to repeat myself and your unworldliness. If we accept what you say, everyone would be attracted to everyone. Which is, of course, nonsense. In the building where i work, a number of people have 'paired up' into relationships through working together (I can think of three examples on my floor of the building). Likewise, Kitty and Bobby are thrown 'together' by circumstance, by being in other's company. In the Danger Room, she grabs him to render him intangible so the missile passes through...and that creates a 'frisson' of contact, a close hug. It's nothing really, just a moment of affection, but enough to annoy Rogue of course.

I've no need to dream lad, a sequel is happening and BS said from the start there would be more action, before any final BO numbers were in.

And if you agree to the need for more action, then isn't that saying that there wasn't enough first time round? I recall quite clearly that you thought SR wasn't as epic as you hoped.

I thought it had almost enough action, it was the rather sombre and laboured presentation of the story that made the action seem 'flat'. And there was a lack of conflict between characters. It lacked the epic 'wow' factor.

We didnt see what we needed to see though, we didnt see why he suddenly couldnt live without his wings. And its not like he had no choice but to take the cure, he could have just not gone to the cure clinic in the first place. but again we dont know. Just because someone's views dont agree with your own doesnt make them stupid boyo.

It was the thought of denying an essential part of himself. More evidence of your unworldliness, as I shall have to give more examples of real world scenarios (again!). Many deaf people resist having cochlear implants to 'cure' their deafness, they decide to accept themselves as they are and they become proud of what they are. There are risks, questions, ethical issues, it's changing what you were. It's like someone presented with the opportunity of some sort of life-changing situation (cosmetic surgery, medical surgery)... they might ultimately decide it's not worth it and that they would rather try to be happy as they are.

In Angel's case, he has obviously lived with the wings for ten years - and obviously he can't keep hacking them off in the bathroom when they keep growing. Would you rather he took the cure so the character called Angel was erased from the movieworld as soon as he appeared? Why not have all the X-Men cured, yes let's get rid of all the mutants so there is no more conflict, no more movies. Let's do what Hitler did to Jews and gays and just get rid of them all, let's not show anyone standing up for what they are. Are you really in favour of this kind of approach?

 

[flavio_lebeau]

Flav, you know that Ro was never singled out and teased. How could she have been? She was raised in a small tight theiving community. They stuck together.

Sure that may not seem relevent, but when looking at the bigger picture it does. How she spent her childhood is exactly how she lives as an adult with the X-men.

A little bit of research on the writers and director's part could have told them that. Storm doesn't need a bloody spin off, just a few minutes and a couple of lines to tell us why she acts the way she does, instead of appearing to be an randomly uncaring bit**.

If they didn't want to go that route, which would have been fine with her fans who wanted to see a throwback to her being a thief, they could have focused some time on her being nearly raped as a child. Yeah, that could have explained her hatred and fear of humans.

That crap they had in mind for Scott and Ororo for X1 was no better than what they did to Logan in X2 or Jean in X3.

BMM is write, it needed to hit the editing room floor. If I had seen that crap I would have walked out in X1, like I did in X2.

I too think it would be better if we got an origin showing the plane accident, the fact that led into her claustrophobia, and maybe some explanation or development on the elevator scene (just a little glimpse showing how desperate she gets inside the elevator hole, and then overcomes her phobia, letting it all out on Toad.). So thinking better, I have to agree with you. It wasn't difficult at all to at least show her claustrophobia (some may argue she showed it in the elevator, but she didn't, we didn't see any fear, just she getting out). But in the end, I would have liked an origin, even if it was the one in the script.

The rape idea would be awesome, mindblowing, but too dissturbing for a kids movie (X-men, after all, is still treated as a kids movie, just like Superman, Spiderman and even Batman Begins). For an art movie, or a drama movie, it would be an awesome idea. I can even picture the scene. Just one scene like that may give more indepth than the entire "arc" of Storm in the trilogy. But I can't see it happening, at least not in the brutal way I imagine it would have to be. And softening such a scene isn't good imo. It's a brutal experience, and should be a brutal scene, not a simple "let's move the camera out so the audience can't see anything" or "let's show only her face" (although if done properly, it could be disturbing without showing, just psychical violence)

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

YES! everybody seems to forget about that.

you can get sort of an idea of what they'd be like from some of the early scripts that are on the internet of X1.

i might as well post it, taken from simplyscripts.com (http://www.simplyscripts.com/xyz.html), this is from 1 of the february 24, 1999 draft script of X1 by Ed Solomon, Chris McQuarrie, Tom DeSanto, Bryan Singer.

this occurs right after the Magneto as a child in the nazi camp part:

-----------------------

ANGLE ON:

The boy's parents watch him as he -- as they, are taken
away.

The rest of their story is as you would expect.

EXT. SKY - DAY

Bright, bright blue framing a blinding white sun.

PAN DOWN AGAIN TO REVEAL:

The cracked, drought-stricken soil of nowhere.

TITLES:

KENYA - 1978

A group of children at play. Tribal children who,
without the help of the titles, could be from any age.

They run through a tiny village of tents, playing. Every
child holds a long reed-like stick and they chase each
other playing their version of tag.

As each child is tapped, they chase the others. Each
trying to avoid being "it", though never going far enough
away to miss the fun.

One girl in particular. A PRETTY GIRL OF 12, with
unusual white hair, is tagged and immediately shunned.

She chases kids this way and that, but to no avail. She
is not strong enough, nor agile enough, to win.

She tumbles and lands on her stick, snapping it. She
stands and, when the children see that her stick is
broken, they begin to giggle.

The giggles become laughter and the laughter becomes a
taunt, and before we even realize, the inherent cruelty
of children let loose becomes evident.

They have now formed a circle, at first avoiding her
touch with distance, but now growing tighter with menace.
In the unspoken manner of children at prey, the group
begins to chant in their native tongue - a song we have
not heard but sung in a way none-too inviting. They
begin to poke at her with the reeds, driving her back.

The girl now moves to the center of the circle, no longer
wishing to tag anyone.

ONE DEVIOUS CHILD seems to get an idea. He takes his
stick and smacks it across her shoulder. She turns to
face the child and another swings his stick across her
back with a solid THWACK. Before long, mob rule gives
way and all the kids are swinging at her and laughing.

It grows to the brink of frenzy, the laughing and the
shouting not too unlike the noise of the previous scene.

So much so, we may miss the first flake of snow. The
children certainly do. It is snowing for a good ten
seconds before the last of them stops.

By then, the snow is thick as flies and wafting down to
melt instantly on the hot African soil that has never
seen snow before.

ANGLE ON:

Adults come out of their huts and in from the fields and
the whole of the village is soon gathered around the
little girl, staring up from the clear blue sky and the
snow that falls from nowhere. From nothing.

One by one, all eyes fall on the little girl and the
looks of curiosity become looks of fear. Of
superstition.

Punctuated by a solid thump.

And then another.

AN OLD MAN looks down at his feet and sees a tiny,
misshapen ball of ice, no bigger than his eye. He looks
at it, bites it, then pops it in his mouth - breath
turning to steam.

Another such chunk of ice pops him on the head. THE
CROWD LAUGHS.

They look up again and see that mixed with the snow are
tiny pellets of hail, seeming to increase in number as
the snow mysteriously wanes.

And the pellets are getting larger. Until they land as
hunks.

The white haired girl drops to the ground and covers her
head as hailstones the size of baseballs plow into the
Earth.

Before long, tents are collapsing and panic ensues.

And all along the white haired girl sits huddled in the
dust, crying.

As hailstones fall in a circle around her, never coming
closer than then a few feet or so.

INT. HIGH SCHOOL GYMNASIUM - NIGHT

ONE MORE SKY. This one a backdrop. Cheap paint and
tissue paper hung with hooks on a wall just behind the
basket on a full court.

As we pull back, we see the skyline of New York, crudely
made out with its silhouette buildings of dark gray and
black - windows of yellow.

Among the famous landmarks represented is the Statue of
Liberty, complete with a real light bulb burning in the
torch.

We are at a prom. The theme is RHAPSODY IN BLUE and the
decor has made tragic efforts to show it. The
tablecloths are blue, the napkins are blue - far too many
of the tuxes are powder blue, and the blue eye shadow is
as heavy as expected.

Peter Gabriel's "In Your Eyes" gives painful indication
of the era, but here it is, nonetheless:

SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA - 1986

MOVE ACROSS THE FLOOR and through the swaying, clutching,
sweating dancers to the bathroom.

Through the door to the usual -

INT. BOYS BATHROOM - NIGHT

Several boys are here, bow ties undone - unclipped in
most cases. Smoking, drinking from whatever inventive
container was used to smuggle in booze. Breath freshener
and Visine are the chaser.

Some of the guys are rolling joints while others make the
sad effort to wave smoke away. Who are they kidding?
It's a fog in here.

MOVE DOWN THE ROW OF TOILET STALLS to one in particular.
Here we find A FRECKLED KID standing in front of mirror,
clearly holding himself up from the effect of God knows
what.

He talks to his friend in the he stall behind him.

FRECKLED KID
Man, what's the matter with you?

His friend is on the toilet with his head in his hands.
He seems to be in some pain. He is SCOTT SUMMERS - AGE
17.

FRECKLED KID (cont'd)
Dude. Lighten up. She's just a girl.
You just gotta-

SCOTT
No, my eyes... my eyes are killing me.

The Freckled kid offers a small plastic bottle.

FRECKLED KID
You want some Visine, man?

SCOTT
My... eyes...

The freckled kid looks and sees that Scott's eyes are
watering so badly that tears are literally streaming
through his fingers.

He goes back to the mirror to look at his own.

SCOTT
... they're burning...

The freckled kid turns back to him.

FRECKLED KID
Dude, how much did you smoke?

SCOTT
I didn't smoke anything.

Scott looks up, taking his hands away, revealing for an
instant that his eyes are merely bright red embers in his
head. Featureless but for the color.

Freckles takes a step back.

INT. GYM - OUTSIDE BOYS ROOM - NIGHT

A blinding flash of light shows through the frosted glass
in the double door and cuts through the crack into the
dark of the gym.

All who see it are stunned. Frozen. A lingering moment
of confusion, then:

BOOM, the doors to the Boys Room burst open and the
occupants scatter into the gym.

INT. GYM - STALL - NIGHT

Freckles is still there, legs locked.

FRECKLES' P.O.V.

He looks at Scott who is now crying meekly in the stall,
covering his eyes again -- afraid to open them.

The door of the stall across from him swings closed TO
REVEAL:

A HOLE, PUNCHED THROUGH THE STALL DOOR framing Scott's
face perfectly. Pull back to reveal that the hole
continues through the wall, into the girl's bathroom next
door.

In the corner several girls huddle together, they are
afraid.

INT. SENATE HEARING ROOM - DAY

Packed with reporters and photographers. There's a dais -
a raised panel of senators - and a second, lower panel.
This is where the "experts" are testifying.

Panning across the faces of several G.O.P. creeps as they
watch something with varying degrees of interest.

TITLES:

WASHINGTON D.C. - THE NOT TOO DISTANT FUTURE

A woman's voice holds over the proceedings. It is the
voice of JEAN GREY - whom we will soon meet.

As she is speaking, we come to a large screen television
at one end of the room.

-------

And that brings us to Jean at the senate.

P.S. goddamn fox, most of all the problems and things the movies lacked was because Fox was cuting the budget.

Wow, that's WAY too many origin scenes. I'm glad they were cut.

Plus, Cyclops' isn't anything even close to accurate...

 

[gambitfire]

Way too many?

It's only 3 besides X3 had 2.

just one more.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Maybe Angel originally had a larger role? Who knows. Irrespective of this, we have to go on what is in the movie. As to how he showed up at the end, you are fixating on something that is, ultimately, irrelevant. Firstly, he made a dramatic and unexpected appearance... like an angel! (just as angels appear unexpectedly and mysteriously in religious writings); secondly, unless you can present to me the exact time that the X-Men left the mansion, the exact time that Angel appeared at Alcatraz and prove without question that it was impossible for him to have done the journey, then there is no real argument. He obviously didn't flap his way there, and his father is a billionaire businessman who no doubt has private jets... so there are possibilities. It's a question people can ask if they are either fixated on nitpicks or if they miss the theme of the scene. We've discussed this to death elsewhere on here.

To have him fly there with the X-Men in a uniform would be a rather fast progression to a full team member.

DVD extras show a scene of Angel fighting in the final battle, so they obviously considered that possibility.

There is nothing wrong with him being a glorified cameo. Cameo roles do exist. He served as a 'backdrop' for the cure story, a symbol for it and for mutant rights. In a multi-character movie that was all about mutant masses gathering for a war, you cannot expect all characters to get full development, just as we don't know everything about Deathstryke, Toad, Sabretooth...

You're being unrealistic and pouring hate on to the movie because you are biased against it and determined to find fault. If you really have watched it seven times (that's more times than me, and I liked it!), then you really should be taking in more of the themes and subtleties, even if you don't like the style of storytelling.

So if i dont like a movie i am biased against it? Thats a new one. Deathstryke, Toad and Sabertooth were never advertised as major characters were they? Angel was, heck we even see him in an X-Suit on the DVD talk about misinterpretation. But my point is we are given to little information about Angel to determine what type of person he is, etc. Did you honestly give a **** about Angel in this movie? Did you care when his father was going to die? I know i didnt, and he is meant to be a good guy! Thats were this movie failed, by not making us care about the characters and Angel was the epitomy of that.

I said that her fear made little sense EITHER within the movie OR when compared with the source. They made an issue out of Storm's fear in X1 and X2, and yet here is a woman who can channel lightning, summon tornadoes and lash out with the elements as at the end of X1. The character was badly portrayed, written by people who don't understand Storm at all and obviously had never read a comic in their lives (and surprise surprise the same criticism is levelled against Superman, which has the same writers!)

I would also question your assertion that Magneto has a similar level of fear. And I would think anyone would be fearful of Phoenix, given her power levels and instability.

Oh i'd say Magneto has fear alright, thats why he went to the conference at the start of X1 IMO, to see if humans had changed from what he had experienced of them in the opening flashback. SR didnt have the same writers as X1 did it, so i dont know were your pulling that from.

And you say Storm was out of character in the first 2 movies, which is true in part, but in X3 she was way more out of character, yet you defend that movie?

Yes, that's his thing - story and character. And that's not a bad thing to focus on. But these are not original characters that he has created. They have an iconic and long-established history in 40 years of comicbook stories. The story and characters have to draw on the original material - not the cartoons, but the original comicbooks. Anyone who'd read stories featuring Storm or most of the others would not create the versions we saw on screen.

And anyone who's ever read an X-Men comic will know that practically EVERY character is out of character in X3, with the exception of Beast, Magnetp and Pyro.

In fact, you support my argument well. Your age, the fact you're still at uni, your inability to listen (I have to keep repeating things and still you don't listen) and the things you say all confirm to me what I think about your unworldliness and inexperience of life.

You assume so much yet know so little. I have finished my degree in Uni, back in May, but still have access to the computer system. I have experienced plenty in my life, so dont assume so much and act a bit more maturely when responding please, i dont want this to turn into a slanging match.

Here's more evidence of my having to repeat myself and your unworldliness.

And yet more of your immaturity. Please stop with the snide remarks

If we accept what you say, everyone would be attracted to everyone. Which is, of course, nonsense. In the building where i work, a number of people have 'paired up' into relationships through working together (I can think of three examples on my floor of the building). Likewise, Kitty and Bobby are thrown 'together' by circumstance, by being in other's company. In the Danger Room, she grabs him to render him intangible so the missile passes through...and that creates a 'frisson' of contact, a close hug. It's nothing really, just a moment of affection, but enough to annoy Rogue of course.

Yes but what you are saying is different. People who work together every day are likely to build a relationship or attractiveness to each other. Bobby and Kitty dont even speak to each other in the first 2 movies and it seems they never spoke much off screen either, as is indicated when Bobby thanks Kitty in a surprised manner in the DR.

And if you agree to the need for more action, then isn't that saying that there wasn't enough first time round? I recall quite clearly that you thought SR wasn't as epic as you hoped.

Oh please show me were i ever said SR was not epic enough, please. I may, MAY, have said i wanted a bit more action, but that would never be at the expense of the character we got. And i believe ALL superhero movie sequels should have more, better and bigger action, in fact its virtually a shoe-in for any action sequel, let alone a superhero one.

I thought it had almost enough action, it was the rather sombre and laboured presentation of the story that made the action seem 'flat'. And there was a lack of conflict between characters. It lacked the epic 'wow' factor.

I thought it had easily enough action and it was balanced very well with the character and plot we got, hence why we got a good movie IMO. And i loved the action sequences we were given.

It was the thought of denying an essential part of himself. More evidence of your unworldliness, as I shall have to give more examples of real world scenarios (again!). Many deaf people resist having cochlear implants to 'cure' their deafness, they decide to accept themselves as they are and they become proud of what they are. There are risks, questions, ethical issues, it's changing what you were. It's like someone presented with the opportunity of some sort of life-changing situation (cosmetic surgery, medical surgery)... they might ultimately decide it's not worth it and that they would rather try to be happy as they are.

In Angel's case, he has obviously lived with the wings for ten years - and obviously he can't keep hacking them off in the bathroom when they keep growing. Would you rather he took the cure so the character called Angel was erased from the movieworld as soon as he appeared? Why not have all the X-Men cured, yes let's get rid of all the mutants so there is no more conflict, no more movies. Let's do what Hitler did to Jews and gays and just get rid of them all, let's not show anyone standing up for what they are. Are you really in favour of this kind of approach?

Did i say anything about wanting Angel or any of the characters to be cured? No and if anything, i'm angry about the characters that were cured, especially Rogue. I just want to know why, in one sudden moment, does he decide he cant live without his mutancy no matter what. Yet you and your holier than thou attitude cant see that.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

You're 'sure' of this and 'pretty sure' of that, but you present no evidence; and, indeed, there is no evidence. When will this blind defence of Singer stop?
He's not a god, and he may not have given us the things you say he would have.

The only consolation with that Storm origin is that it goes some way to explaining the fear she has in X1 and X2. But that origin is not accurate, and that fear is out of character.

No hes not a God, but he's far better director than Ratner.

 

[Halcohol]

No hes not a God, but he's far better director than Ratner.

He's a different director than Ratner. Big difference.

Singer = characterization & mood
Ratner = energy & action

What are the X-Men all about? Characters and action. For the first two movies the focus was on the characters, but we still got some decent action scenes. For the 3rd movie, the characters had already been established and the focus was shifted more towards really cool action sequences.

Would Singer's X3 have been different than Ratner's? Without a doubt. However, while Singer's would have been more in-depth and had more feeling behind it, I can't help but wonder if we would have been left wanting more out of the action sequences. I think we can all agree that Ratner gave us what we deserved with regards to action.

Sure, some of the action was mostly set-up with little payoff (Iceman vs. Pyro for example, anything to do with Colossus), but nobody can argue that Magneto vs. the convoy, the Bridge scene, or the entire Alcatraz scene weren't awesome.

If anything, we would've seen a Storm with more conflict as to whether or not she should fight her old friend. Since my guess is Singer's Cyclops would have lived to play a major part in the story, Storm's role would have been based around her conflict. Perhaps she might have had more of a rivalry with Callisto, but I guess we'll never know.

 

[04nbod]

i am still dreaming for a day when i see a scott and phoenix face off come to life

 

[xii22_loop]

so what actually makes a story? characterization & mood
or energy & action? And which makes a better movie?

 

[04nbod]

not one to beat around the bush xII22 Loop. Well i like characterisation and i think they ever spend enough time in the mansion showing everyday life and the relationships for example what are bobby and rogue like when the movies don't give them domestic problems

 

[X-Maniac]

He's a different director than Ratner. Big difference.

Singer = characterization & mood
Ratner = energy & action

What are the X-Men all about? Characters and action. For the first two movies the focus was on the characters, but we still got some decent action scenes. For the 3rd movie, the characters had already been established and the focus was shifted more towards really cool action sequences.

Would Singer's X3 have been different than Ratner's? Without a doubt. However, while Singer's would have been more in-depth and had more feeling behind it, I can't help but wonder if we would have been left wanting more out of the action sequences. I think we can all agree that Ratner gave us what we deserved with regards to action.

Sure, some of the action was mostly set-up with little payoff (Iceman vs. Pyro for example, anything to do with Colossus), but nobody can argue that Magneto vs. the convoy, the Bridge scene, or the entire Alcatraz scene weren't awesome.

If anything, we would've seen a Storm with more conflict as to whether or not she should fight her old friend. Since my guess is Singer's Cyclops would have lived to play a major part in the story, Storm's role would have been based around her conflict. Perhaps she might have had more of a rivalry with Callisto, but I guess we'll never know.

Exactly. You took the words from my mouth. Singer's good at character drama (and even then some characters get shoved aside and turned into cardboard cut-outs, you can tell the X-Men was too many characters for him to handle well). Ratner's good at 'guns blazing' epic action and not so good at pacing and detail (he IS good at character moments, they were there in X3, but the pacing perhaps did not let them 'breathe' as much as many would like)

This blind worship of Singer, as though he is some kind of god, has to stop. Aveitwithjamon is one of the most guilty of this narrow-minded approach. Even saying he'd only watch X4 if Singer were involved.

Of course Cyclops would have lived if Singer stayed - because if Singer stayed, then it's highly unlikely Marsden would have signed to the Superman project. But it's debatable whether he'd have had a big part in the movie.

 

[X-Maniac]

So if i dont like a movie i am biased against it? Thats a new one. Deathstryke, Toad and Sabertooth were never advertised as major characters were they? Angel was, heck we even see him in an X-Suit on the DVD talk about misinterpretation. But my point is we are given to little information about Angel to determine what type of person he is, etc. Did you honestly give a **** about Angel in this movie? Did you care when his father was going to die? I know i didnt, and he is meant to be a good guy! Thats were this movie failed, by not making us care about the characters and Angel was the epitomy of that.

Angel was a cameo, a tertiary character. How many times does it need to be said to sink in!? You just will not listen. I'm not sure if you are just stubborn, or completely dense.

Who cares about the DVD cover. Maybe he was meant to have a larger role at some point. If they'd given him any more screentime, you'd be moaning about that, about there being too many characters and too much to take in.

And, yes, I did give a **** about Angel in this movie. Totally.

Oh i'd say Magneto has fear alright, thats why he went to the conference at the start of X1 IMO, to see if humans had changed from what he had experienced of them in the opening flashback. SR didnt have the same writers as X1 did it, so i dont know were your pulling that from.

Once again you aren't listening. SR had the same writers as X2. And there is no evidence Magneto went to the Senate meeting out of fear, so you are now just inventing things. Magneto is a terrorist, he creates the terror, he doesn't feel it himself.

And you say Storm was out of character in the first 2 movies, which is true in part, but in X3 she was way more out of character, yet you defend that movie?

In X3, Storm was sometimes more in character than previously. Her harshness over the cure is part of the comicbook character's intolerance (there is an issue where she refuses to let Rogue join the X-Men and is totally hardline and black-and-white about it, for instance). You evidently know little of the comics - I read Storm's first appearance back in 1975 as the issue was published and have read the comics ever since.

X3's Storm was also forced to continue some of the crappy characterisation from the previous movies, and it did round off her character arc. We finally saw Storm using anger to help her survive, and we finally saw her moving on from the fear she had in X1 and X2 where they were hiding at the school (she asks Xavier why they are still hiding, because the world seems a better place).

And anyone who's ever read an X-Men comic will know that practically EVERY character is out of character in X3, with the exception of Beast, Magnetp and Pyro.

That's your opinion, and it's not a correct opinion. For instance, Xavier, Juggernaut, Storm and Wolverine all acted like elements of their comicbook characters and all returning characters followed on from the stories established previously.

You assume so much yet know so little. I have finished my degree in Uni, back in May, but still have access to the computer system. I have experienced plenty in my life, so dont assume so much and act a bit more maturely when responding please, i dont want this to turn into a slanging match. And yet more of your immaturity. Please stop with the snide remarks

You show little knowledge or experience in your replies so far. I'm still waiting for you to say something that isn't influenced by a Singer bias towards X1, X2 and SR.

Yes but what you are saying is different. People who work together every day are likely to build a relationship or attractiveness to each other. Bobby and Kitty dont even speak to each other in the first 2 movies and it seems they never spoke much off screen either, as is indicated when Bobby thanks Kitty in a surprised manner in the DR.

Yes, and since X1 and X2, things had moved on. X3 clearly showed Kitty had become an X-Men member, which brought her into much closer contact with Iceman. It doesn't matter how much they spoke in X1 and X2 (and we aren't going to be shown every little conversation). But in X1 we see Kitty in the class grinning when Pyro creates a flame for Rogue and Iceman freezes it, we see Kitty watch Iceman leave an ice rose on Rogue's desk. She is around, she obviously knows Bobby. But in X3 she is training alongside him.

Oh please show me were i ever said SR was not epic enough, please. I may, MAY, have said i wanted a bit more action, but that would never be at the expense of the character we got. And i believe ALL superhero movie sequels should have more, better and bigger action, in fact its virtually a shoe-in for any action sequel, let alone a superhero one.

You quite clearly said it wasn't as epic as you thought. I remember being a little surprised and also glad you had admitted it. It was on the X3 forum as the film was released - sadly, your post history doesn't go back that far. I clearly remember you saying it because you had been harping on about how good SR was going to be, then you seemed a little disappointed. If the post history wasn't limited to 500 posts (which in your case goes back only a month) then I'd find it for you.

Did i say anything about wanting Angel or any of the characters to be cured? No and if anything, i'm angry about the characters that were cured, especially Rogue. I just want to know why, in one sudden moment, does he decide he cant live without his mutancy no matter what. Yet you and your holier than thou attitude cant see that.

As i keep saying, it's a now or never moment. Be what you are, or be changed forever with no going back. He clearly says to his father 'No, it's what you want', so he decides he has had enough of family conformity and pressure and decides to be an adult and make his own decisions. He becomes an adult. It's pretty terrifying to be strapped into that trolley, with a needle coming at you, to be told that a jarring transformation is about to take place, and to know that your father is going to parade you everywhere as the first public example of a successfully cured mutant. He decides to make his own decisions, not have them made for him. Surely you remember moments as a teenager where you rebelled against family pressure, conformity and demands and wanted to do what you wanted to do. It's called growing up.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Way too many?

It's only 3 besides X3 had 2.

just one more.

It would have been 4 flashbacks / backstory intros:

Magneto, Rogue, Storm, and Cyclops.

The first half hour of the movie would have been flashbacks for all these different characters. I don't think having a flashback introduction for every single character is really that good of an idea.

Magneto's flashback worked for the story, because it established the motivation of the villian. Why is he doing what he's doing? This is why.

Rogue's introduction also works, because she's part of that plan. She's going to be a major focus. Plus, she's gonna run away to meet Wolverine, so we can't just have her randomly meeting up with this guy.

The flashbacks in X-Men: The Last Stand work to serve the same purpose. Jean's flashback establishes the Phoenix story arc, and the Angel flashback gives us the motivation for the creation of the cure.

Quite frankly, I'd find flashback intros for Cyclops and Storm to be rather unneccesary. Their backstories don't drive the plot. Rogue and Magneto's did. Jean and Angel's did. We are shown what we need to know through the characters and their development.

Sorry, despite the fact that it's one of those fanboys complaints, a flashback introductory origin scene for every single character is not good filmmaking. Introduction of the backstories that will drive the plot is good filmmaking.

 

[gambitfire]

Rogue isn't really a flashback it's part of the story and up to date with it.

Cyclops and Storm flashbacks if done properly could work, it establishes who they are as mutants and that mutants have it bad.

If you think about it X1 doesn't really give us the greater impact of how hard it is too be a mutant i think the idea for those flashbacks where to show that being a mutant isn't that easy and so that these 2 kids in the end had somewhere to go and turned out ok and fight for a great cause, yea the movie got it across but those 2 flashbacks could of added more too it.

It also doesn't make their characters fall so into the backdrop.

That's how i feel about it.

In your opinion it's not good film making IMO it serves the story it works, the reason it felt awkward with in X3 is because they had 2 past movies to show something on Jean instead just because the writers didn't feel like going in the direction the movie seemed to go they had to go back and say oh look something you didn't know!

IMO that was lame.

 

[BMM]

In X3, Storm was sometimes more in character than previously. Her harshness over the cure is part of the comicbook character's intolerance (there is an issue where she refuses to let Rogue join the X-Men and is totally hardline and black-and-white about it, for instance). You evidently know little of the comics - I read Storm's first appearance back in 1975 as the issue was published and have read the comics ever since.

I wouldn’t be quick so quick to characterize Storm as being blindingly intolerant, particularly in the issue you’re citing. By the end of the book, the X-Men accept Xavier’s decision to make Rogue a member of the team, and Storm isn’t so narrow-minded as to not listen to Xavier’s (or anyone else’s) reasoning. Storm is actually able to look past her own indignations and consider the plight of another . . . I can’t necessarily say the same for Storm’s portrayal in The Last Stand. Furthermore, Storm is later able to accept Rogue, despite the “atrocities” she has committed in Storm’s eyes, because Storm knows there is still the potential for good inside of Rogue . . . I would say The Last Stand somewhat overlooks this compassion and logic of Storm’s, which I think is further evidenced by her callousness toward former friend and teammate, Jean Grey.