What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS*

[Rock Sexton]

It doesn't so much matter whether you bought it. It's right there in the structure of the film.

The focus of this movie was on Krypton, Earth as a whole, how the two people related, and Superman as a character.

They developed Krypton. They developed a rookie Superman. They developed the ideas about Superman's interaction with Earth and the First Contact elements with the Kryptonians.

Had they not done so, they would have had the time to develop Metropolis, The Daily Planet, and other concepts more related to a fully formed Superman. It's a question of what the filmmaker's chose to focus on, not an inability to handle storytelling and theme.

Sorry .... not true.

At the end of the day there was the problem of "balance" when it came to the depictions. They half-arsed a pivotal transition in Superman's relationship to the human race. It started with a simple scene of nobility when he turns himself in. It's at that stage in the movie where Supes (fully costumed and already shown to have gotten in touch with his true powers) SHOULD begin to show us the admirable traits he's known for. He doesn't. Instead what they show us is a backyard brawler.

You can't just pontificate like that, give us the scene with the pastor, and then be relegated to an interstellar MMA fight.

That's when the movie started unwinding for me. I just couldn't take it and it got progressively worse as the fight was brought to Metropolis after some cornball events putting Lois Lane in possession of the answer to getting rid of the Krptonians. It was exhausting to watch.

 

[BlueLantern]

It doesn't so much matter whether you bought it. It's right there in the structure of the film.

The focus of this movie was on Krypton, Earth as a whole, how the two people related, and Superman as a character.

They developed Krypton. They developed a rookie Superman. They developed the ideas about Superman's interaction with Earth and the First Contact elements with the Kryptonians.

Had they not done so, they would have had the time to develop Metropolis, The Daily Planet, and other concepts more related to a fully formed Superman. It's a question of what the filmmaker's chose to focus on, not an inability to handle storytelling and theme.

You're right in that respect, but then my argument would be is absolutely restrict the factors involved to what can be substantially developed.

By introducing Metropolis and the Daily Planet and not going into details regarding the city, it leaves it as loose strands but still then expects viewers to get invested when the city goes kaboom. Why?

Imagine if there was more of Smallville at the start of the film, showing Clark grow up and truly love the place he calls home but drifts to find purpose.

Later on instead of Zod taking to Metropolis and launching the Black Zero, he preys on Clark's weakness and affection for his home and chooses Smallville as the ground zero.

It would come full circle and be far more emotionally rewarding as a viewer. It would be more reminiscent of Batman Begins but that's not a bad thing at all. It would hit the spot.

Save the rest of the Daily Planet but Lois for the sequel or the final sequence where Clark's helped rebuild Smallville following the disaster and or decides to then pursue his final purpose of entering a brave new world in the form of Metropolis and the Daily Planet. End credits.

P.S The point of Chris Nolan developing Batman's character over time is true, but it felt organic. It didn't feel forced like some of the plot points in this film did. It was calculated to perfection and hence yielded maximum reward and response.

 

[Skrilla31]

Maybe you should read what I say VS ignoring the context of my statements entirely.

Oh, you're one of those. Okay.

Nevermind. Sorry to derail the thread guys.

 

[The Guard]

Sorry .... not true.

At the end of the day there was the problem of "balance" when it came to the depictions. They half-arsed a pivotal transition in Superman's relationship to the human race. It started with a simple scene of nobility when he turns himself in. It's at that stage in the movie where Supers (fully costumed and already shown to have gotten in touch with his true powers) SHOULD begin to show us the admirable traits he's known for. He doesn't. Instead what they show us is a backyard brawler.

Half assed? What on Earth are you talking about?

He turned himself in and let them take him into custody.
He trusted them.
He let them cuff him.
He told them he was not their enemy.
He told them what he knew.
And he went on, even though he was unsure of himself and untested, to save lives, innocents and military alike, while he helped them stand against this new enemy, including showing concern for the people of SMALLVILLE, even though
he’s, again, a ROOKIE.

These ARE the admirable traits he is known for.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

So pa kent is a selfish father who want his son to be a farmer.

He is not the comic book pa kent. He is just a normal father who doesn't want his son to get hurt.

Unacceptable?

Yes. Normal parents discourage their sons to use their abilities for good. And a normal father certainly would die to make this discouragement effective.

I'm talking more about the concept of "The Superman", and what that means in relation to Earth's history, and especially to Zod, what with his complaints about degenerate bloodlines.

And the thing about those complaints is...despite being key aspects of the Superman mythos, they're minor, because I absolutely get what they're doing. They introduced Superman and his background, they're going to introduce his larger mythos in the sequel. Which is kind of a brilliant move and allows for each film to focus on something different, given that the concepts are so sprawling in a sense.

Yes well, how could you expect the world calling him "Superman" if the world was first introduced to a number of "Supermen" and few of them saw Kal-el or knew what he did.

 

[BlueLantern]

Look up in the sky. It's a bird. It's a plane. It's the alien in blue as opposed to the alien in black!

 

[Rock Sexton]

Half assed? What on Earth are you talking about?

He turned himself in and let them take him into custody.
He trusted them.
He let them cuff him.
He told them he was not their enemy.
He told them what he knew.
And he went on, even though he was unsure of himself and untested, to save lives, innocents and military alike, while he helped them stand against this new enemy, including showing concern for the people of SMALLVILLE, even though
he’s, again, a ROOKIE.

These ARE the admirable traits he is known for.

He's not a rookie at that stage though. The whole point of showing you when he found Jor-El and practiced his powers was to illustrate he knows who he is and what he's capable of.

Then we get the noble event of him turning himself in, which highlights what Supes is about ..... only to basically recant on his persona as the fight breaks out in Smallvile and the in Metropolis. We got heavy dosages of a brawler causing lots of collateral damage. Yes, there would be some, there's no doubt about that, but at no point did we get glimpses of Supes attempting to prevent any of it.

 

[The Guard]

Imagine if there was more of Smallville at the start of the film, showing Clark grow up and truly love the place he calls home but drifts to find purpose.

And that would have worked...but that isn’t the point of view this film took. This Clark Kent felt like an outsider, wasn’t sure where he belonged. It was a choice made by the filmmakers. We’ve seen Clark loving Smallville already. This was something new.

Later on instead of Zod taking to Metropolis and launching the Black Zero, he preys on Clark's weakness and affection for his home and chooses Smallville as the ground zero.

They kind of did. Did you notice how they ended up in Smallville, and Zod dispatched two ships and threatened his mother? Clark's reaction to this was pretty powerful stuff. They obviously had found a weak point.

Save the rest of the Daily Planet but Lois for the sequel or the final sequence where Clark's helped rebuild Smallville following the disaster and or decides to then pursue his final purpose of entering a brave new world in the form of Metropolis and the Daily Planet. End credits.

So Metropolis just comes out of nowhere, then? Hmm...

 

[Skrilla31]

I still can't over that last scene of young Clark running around in the cape. That scene is just flat out dumb on so many levels, you have to wonder what these guys were thinking when they included it.

Oh that's right, they weren't thinking.

 

[The Guard]

He's not a rookie at that stage though. The whole point of showing you when he found Jor-El and practiced his powers was to illustrate he knows who he is and what he's capable of.

Yes he is.

He'd never truly been tested as Superman yet.

Just because you know how to hit doesn't mean you can win a batting title quite yet.

Then we get the noble event of him turning himself in, which highlights what Supes is about ..... only to basically recant on his persona as the fight breaks out in Smallvile and the in Metropolis. We got heavy dosages of a brawler causing lots of collateral damage. Yes, there would be some, there's no doubt about that, but at no point did we get glimpses of Supes attempting to prevent any of it.

He didn't recant anything. His actions in Smallville are still noble.

That's part of who Superman is. He's someone who will use his strength to stand against those who would harm others.

And yes, we did get glimpses of Superman preventing the damage.

But this was also one of those trial and error scenes.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

I still can't over that last scene of young Clark running around in the cape. That scene is just flat out dumb on so many levels, you have to wonder what these guys were thinking when they included it.

Oh that's right, they weren't thinking.

It could have even be a scene as to why Clark decided to wear a cape.... but no.

It was just a flat attempt of symbolism. "He was a hero in cape since he was a kid."

 

[Rock Sexton]

Yes. Normal parents discourage their sons to use their abilities for good. And a normal father certainly would die to make this discouragement effective.

That scene totally undid what I liked about their relationship that I had enjoyed up to that point. It was getting emotional as they're arguing. Then it just gets ludicrous. Ya, I'm supposed to believe Clark would let Pa Kent die at a time like that? Especially after his real father Jor-El is already dead? No way man. At that point the "hiding" junk goes out the window ..... I'm saving my damn father and dealing with the consequences of the decision later. Hell, he could've saved him and then set off on his journal. It could've been depicted where people around couldn't really tell what was going on and it wouldn't necessarily jeopardize himself.

 

[Tony Stark]

I still can't over that last scene of young Clark running around in the cape. That scene is just flat out dumb on so many levels, you have to wonder what these guys were thinking when they included it.

Oh that's right, they weren't thinking.

Agreed. I was thinking in the trailer they were showing some random kid who is inspired by Superman, when I saw the scene in context it makes no sense.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

That scene totally undid what I liked about their relationship that I had enjoyed up to that point. It was getting emotional as they're arguing. Then it just gets ludicrous. Ya, I'm supposed to believe Clark would let Pa Kent die at a time like that? Especially after his real father Jor-El is already dead? No way man. At that point the "hiding" junk goes out the window ..... I'm saving my damn father and dealing with the consequences of the decision later. Hell, he could've saved him and then set off on his journal. It could've been depicted where people around couldn't really tell what was going on and it wouldn't necessarily jeopardize himself.

In no case would have Clark just let his father die.

I miss Donner's Clark who would have done everything to save his father.

 

[Skrilla31]

Agreed. I was thinking in the trailer they were showing some random kid who is inspired by Superman, when I saw the scene in context it makes no sense.

Wow. Now THAT was a missed opportunity.

That should have definitely made it into the film. Not just because of what it represents, but because how it mirrors real life. Every kid knows what it's likes to pretend they're Superman. Would have been such a special moment.

 

[The Guard]

It's apparent that most people simply don't grasp the actual reason Jonathan Kent wanted Clark to keep his abilities hidden.

And I've pretty much decided that anyone who doesn't love the last bit with young Clark with his towel cape doesn't have a soul, and was never a kid, and doesn't really like Superman.

 

[Rock Sexton]

Yes he is.

He'd never truly been tested as Superman yet.

Just because you know how to hit doesn't mean you can win a batting title quite yet.

It doesn't matter whether he had been tested or not. The whole point of that scene was a graduation .... the culmination of his search for identity and purpose. Jor-El then grandstands and verbalizes what Superman is to the human race.

He didn't recant anything. His actions in Smallville are still noble.

That's part of who Superman is. He's someone who will use his strength to stand against those who would harm others.

And yes, we did get glimpses of Superman preventing the damage.

But this was also one of those trial and error scenes.

Ya, telling everyone to get inside and then willingly tossing Kryptonians into the very places they are hiding is noble.

Where was a scene where Supes left the scene of a fight to rescue the public in peril? The closest we got to that was the very end when the Zod/Supes fight ended up in a location where there was some randomly placed people hiding in rubble. We never got that moment where a massive piece of debris is falling and about to crush hundreds of bystanders .... none of that.

 

[Skrilla31]

It's apparent that most people simply don't grasp the actual reason Jonathan Kent wanted Clark to keep his abilities hidden.

And I've pretty much decided that anyone who doesn't love the last bit with young Clark with his towel cape doesn't have a soul, and was never a kid, and doesn't really like Superman.

Explain the meaning of the scene to us then. Go on.

 

[Rock Sexton]

It's apparent that most people simply don't grasp the actual reason Jonathan Kent wanted Clark to keep his abilities hidden.

I understand the concept ... and it works up to a certain point. That point became outrageous when it involves a son willingly letting his father die, especially after already having lost his biological one.

 

[The Guard]

It doesn't matter whether he had been tested or not. The whole point of that scene was a graduation .... the culmination of his search for identity and purpose. Jor-El then grandstands and verbalizes what Superman is to the human race.

Yes, in the context of whether Superman was a rookie or not, it does matter.

I don't think you know what rookie means. It means inexperienced. He was not experienced at using all of his powers yet, especially in combat.

Ya, telling everyone to get inside and then willingly tossing Kryptonians into the very places they are hiding is noble.

I don't recall Superman tossing Zod into a building that people were hiding in. I recall Zod, Faora and his people tossing Superman through buildings.

Where was a scene where Supes willingly left the scene of a fight to rescue the public in peril? The closest we got to that was the very end when the Zod/Supes fight ended up in a location where there was some randomly placed people hiding in rubble.

Superman leaving the fight would have resulted in more people dying. Superman fighting Zod was what was going to end that threat in the first place.

We never got that moment where a massive piece of debris is falling and about to crush hundreds of bystanders .... none of that.

So, you're whining because we never got that cliché moment we've seen in countless other superhero movies?

 

[The Guard]

I understand the concept ... and it works up to a certain point. That point became outrageous when it involves a son willingly letting his father die, especially after already having lost his biological one.

If you understand the concept, it shouldn't work up to a certain point. You should understand exactly why Clark let his father die.

Jonathan's concept was not "Clark, this is bigger than us, but not bigger than you saving me"

Sheesh.

 

[Daybreak_st]

sorry, this is just not the version of your pa kent.
neverthless, pa kent is just like any other great father who will sacrifice himself for his son.
he didn't want the world to know his son is an alien. he didn't want his son to die (most likely if they do, he will get caught and killed for experiment in the real world)
how hard is it for you to understand?

There are so many mind-numbingly dumb decisions in that one scene culminating in the most unnecessary death on screen And there is simply no logic to ANYTHING that happens in that scene. Explain to me why Johnathan didn't let clark go get that dog? Why in the world did he risk his life to save a DOG! Even without powers he could've run faster than Pa to get the dog and would've had zero problem opening the door etc. It was a poorly written scene on all levels. It takes an immense amount of ignoring basic logic to even suggest anything in that scene was a good idea. They cut back and forth to Clark...so...many...times you wonder why in the world is he just standing there. You want to make Johnathan sacrifice himself then fine and least have him doing it in a heroic way trying to save other people not his dog. And the idea that he knowlingly leaves Martha with the enormous task of raising this boy who will no doubt one day change the world...he willingly leaves her to that task?!! What is sacrificial about that? It was poorly written. Have Clark equally occupied saving people, I mean we've already established at this point he's saved people before so him helping without powers would not be against his character, an no just having him dad pass him one child doesn't really count. If he's busy saving others and his dad's busy and then he looks up and THE ONLY WAY to save his dad is to use his powers and his dad waves him...THAT I COULD UNDERSTAND. BUT STANDING THERE JUST WAITING AS YOUR DAD IS TRAPPED IN THE CAR AND JUST WAITING IS JUST POORLY WRITTEN. PERIOD.

 

[RedIsNotBlue]

I understand the concept ... and it works up to a certain point. That point became outrageous when it involves a son willingly letting his father die, especially after already having lost his biological one.

Did you miss every single one of the scenes where Jonathan Kent was raising Clark and hammering home the point that society wasn't ready for him to reveal himself and that he shouldn't use his powers for selfishness? And he didn't know he LOST his biological parents, he knew nothing about where he was from at that point other than that he was an alien and his adopted parents were the Kent's.

 

[Senator Pleasury]

It's apparent that most people simply don't grasp the actual reason Jonathan Kent wanted Clark to keep his abilities hidden.

Oh, we get it. It's just weird and in no case it is worth of suicide or Clark allowing his father to commit it.

And I've pretty much decided that anyone who doesn't love the last bit with young Clark with his towel cape doesn't have a soul, and was never a kid, and doesn't really like Superman.

You have "decided" what other people think?

 

[Rock Sexton]

Yes, in the context of whether Superman was a rookie or not, it does matter.

I don't think you know what rookie means. It means inexperienced. He was not experienced at using all of his powers yet, especially in combat.

Mentally he's not a rookie. We spent all that time building his backstory during his journeys of saving people and doing right by human kind. That should've overriden his desire to rage out and play WWE on Smallville and Metropolis.

I don't recall Superman tossing Zod into a building that people were hiding in. I recall Zod, Faora and his people tossing Superman through buildings.

They were doing it to each other .... and like I've argued with you before, Superman wouldn't sit there going toe-to-to in an IHOP with people around. He would do whatever he could to take the fight outside away from the people. But suddenly this Superman (who's clearly physically stronger from having been exposed to our sun) couldn't canonball them out of there?

Superman leaving the fight would have resulted in more people dying. Superman fighting Zod was what was going to end that threat in the first place.

So, you're whining because we never got that cliché moment we've seen in countless other superhero movies?

We all know Superman is quick enough to move around and save a few innocents and then get back to his fight. C'mon man.

I'm not whining. I'm rightfully irritated that I got to watch endless amounts of brawling.