What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS*

[Daybreak_st]

Yeah I think Metropolis is already back to a semblance of normalcy. They are still rebuilding, but life has clearly moved on.

And that's considerably "unrealistic" in a such a "realistic" movie.

 

[writer0327]

Agreed. I think that was the problem. There were a lot of things to like in the film, primarily the action but the overall tone was just too melancholy. The final scene gives me hope for the sequel.

Far too melancholy. Yes, Superman should be uplifting, at least to me it should be. Spectacle and dazzling effects are wonderful, action is great, but can we get a little heart and soul next time? I mean, the Avengers is giving me all of that "destroy everything, blow up the city" stuff, Iron Man, Transformers, etc....if I wanna see a city shredded into rubble and nothing more, I got all kinds of movies I can watch for that.

Superman is different, an icon, a symbol for humanity, for hope. They gotta make sure we get that feeling in the sequel. They need to bring out Superman's persona.

 

[writer0327]

And that's considerably "unrealistic" in a such a "realistic" movie.

No kidding.

Think about it. Aliens showing up out of nowhere, attacking, and nearly destroying a city and the planet, bringing the Earth to its knees...and without the intervention of another alien, Earth was done.

and months later, everything is back to normal?

Strange. But perhaps behind the scenes, the world leaders are crafting weaponry to combat another alien attack. What would have made a strong ending to the film would be something along those lines, world leaders or even just our President and his cabinet discussing the possibility of more aliens showing up, how vulnerable the Earth was to the last attack, and the fact that we can't just rely on Superman to save the day.

And then you can show Clark and Lois smiling at each other on Clark's first day at work.

 

[BH/HHH]

Thematically it doesn't work. The whole point is Kryptonians are breed to be a specific class. Farmers will only be farmers and so on, therefore it is a planet without choice and Kal-El is unique because he can be anything thing he chooses. Therefore a scientist born and breed should never be able to best a warrior born and breed. Jor-El holding his own against a warrior and not only a warrior but the GENERAL makes NO SENSE. That be would like someone who was a doctor all his life holding his own with Jet Li in a fight.
But you go with it because what else can you do.

But Jor El and Lara for that matter broke Kryptonian ways by having a child naturally this in itself is a way of breaking their gentics so is it so hard to think that Jor El could learn to fight?

 

[blumatic]

Far too melancholy. Yes, Superman should be uplifting, at least to me it should be. Spectacle and dazzling effects are wonderful, action is great, but can we get a little heart and soul next time? I mean, the Avengers is giving me all of that "destroy everything, blow up the city" stuff, Iron Man, Transformers, etc....if I wanna see a city shredded into rubble and nothing more, I got all kinds of movies I can watch for that.

Superman is different, an icon, a symbol for humanity, for hope. They gotta make sure we get that feeling in the sequel. They need to bring out Superman's persona.

I agree. And thats why MOS is so brilliant. You didnt get that yet. He has to climb that mountain to be the hero that we know and love. I didnt find MOS paticularly uplifting but I appreciate that about the movie. Im on a journey with Clark. I see how hard it is for him.

I mean we all want this guy to be such a perfect icon and he should be always cheery, smiling, and insprational. But let Supes have a moment to be real. He's begging for us to ask him, "How you doing Superman? Seriously how are things going with YOU?" I wouldnt be surprised if he broke down a little. He's was raised as a human, emotions and all. And as a human he is imperfect.

MOS didnt have Superman educated by Jor-El for 12 years to know everything like they did in 1978. Cavill's Supes is very raw. I like that. And I cant wait to see his progression.

 

[writer0327]

But Jor El and Lara for that matter broke Kryptonian ways by having a child naturally this in itself is a way of breaking their gentics so is it so hard to think that Jor El could learn to fight?

Not on the level of a General, who wasn't some fatso sitting in a war room, but a "man of action", clearly trained in combat. You really have to suspend your disbelief to make that work.

 

[blumatic]

Thematically it doesn't work. The whole point is Kryptonians are breed to be a specific class. Farmers will only be farmers and so on, therefore it is a planet without choice and Kal-El is unique because he can be anything thing he chooses. Therefore a scientist born and breed should never be able to best a warrior born and breed. Jor-El holding his own against a warrior and not only a warrior but the GENERAL makes NO SENSE. That be would like someone who was a doctor all his life holding his own with Jet Li in a fight.
But you go with it because what else can you do.

Jor-El blinded them before he fought them. And it doesnt mean he cant fight, every being is born with a sense of self preservation. No one wants to get killed, so for him to hold his own is logical. It seems that the El family are are high borns (Game of Thrones terms - born into a prestigious family) so they probably learned to fight a little. I mean he did have battle armor ready for when he needs.

 

[writer0327]

I agree. And thats why MOS is so brilliant. You didnt get that yet. He has to climb that mountain to be the hero that we know and love. I didnt find MOS paticularly uplifting but I appreciate that about the movie. Im on a journey with Clark. I see how hard it is for him.

I mean we all want this guy to be such a perfect icon and he should be always cheery, smiling, and insprational. But let Supes have a moment to be real. He's begging for us to ask him, "How you doing Superman? Seriously how are things going with YOU?" I wouldnt be surprised if he broke down a little. He's was raised as a human, emotions and all. And as a human he is imperfect.

MOS didnt have Superman educated by Jor-El for 12 years to know everything like they did in 1978. Cavill's Supes is very raw. I like that. And I cant wait to see his progression.

That's the thing about Superman. He feels the purpose of his father sending him to Earth, when Pa Kent says "you must have been sent here for a reason". He puts it all together, combining the values of both fathers, a brilliant scientist and a simple farmer, and from that comes his passion. Superman is living in a world where there is evil and horrors, and he is saving mankind from that, all while being the champion of truth and justice, of hope and triumph. That's who Superman is, and we didn't see him in MOS.

They could have given us a little bit more of that Superman and less Kal-El soul-searching and the movie would have been 10 times better. And I didn't mind Kal-El's searching for himself, I actually think that was the best part of the film, but we could have had less of it. But I'm not writing off Snyder yet. Hopefully there is a game plan like you say.

 

[Max Newlander]

That's the thing about Superman. He feels the purpose of his father sending him to Earth, when Pa Kent says "you must have been sent here for a reason". He puts it all together, combining the values of both fathers, a brilliant scientist and a simple farmer, and from that comes his passion. Superman is living in a world where there is evil and horrors, and he is saving mankind from that, all while being the champion of truth and justice, of hope and triumph. That's who Superman is, and we didn't see him in MOS.

They could have given us a little bit more of that Superman and less Kal-El soul-searching and the movie would have been 10 times better. And I didn't mind Kal-El's searching for himself, I actually think that was the best part of the film, but we could have had less of it. But I'm not writing off Snyder yet. Hopefully there is a game plan like you say.

The thing is I don't think there was a game plan, or is. This is Zack and Co reimaging of the MoS, and it's neither particularly 'Superman' or well done as a story.

Why would they assume they had the right of a 'sequel' Singer didn't get one, and the last successful Superman movie was 30 years ago. The public clearly showed with their wallets in 2006 that Superman was not a guarantee of riches. You had to have something worth watching for people to go and see, and having 'Superman' in it wasn't enough reason to go and watch it.

They missed the mark, again. Superman shouldn't be gritty, or set in plausibility. It's about colour, hope, uplifting origins, having a wow factor. They shouldn't have thought (and I'm sure they didn't) 'Well we will set this up for an awesomely uplifting second movie'. There is no way they were 1. That arrogant, 2. That stupid. This was them giving it 100%, this was their masterpiece (in their eyes). In many ways they overcame a lot of the issues of SR, but absolutely regressed in other ways.. Now for the people to say, 'things change, and we need realism etc'.. Well that's an absolute assumption. Superman isn't Batman, he can't be plausible and grounded in reality, he should be colourful, exciting, and a man that uplifts an audience with inspiration and a WOW factor.

Where was the WOW moments other than mindless CGI and effects. A great introduction to the human race could have been awesome and very Superman(ish) with a grandiose theme drumming away. They weren't leaving all that for a sequel, that makes NO SENSE AT ALL.

Where was the montage of exciting 'saving the day' moments.

Where was the uplifting parts.. Pa was a d#%k in all honesty. Ma wasn't much better.

Where was the clever script that could have been adapted from several generations of materials.

I have said before, I believe in change, but I don't believe in change when it completely takes away from the character. Make the film about Superdude, or some other superhero (brand new hero) nobody knows a history of if you want to change it so much, otherwise what's the point.

This is all my opinion, I wasn't watching a great Superman story in MoS I was ironically watching something completely alien to that.

 

[writer0327]

The thing is I don't think there was a game plan, or is. This is Zack and Co reimaging of the MoS, and t's neither particularly 'Superman' or well done as a story.

Why would they assume they had the right of a 'sequel' Singer didn't get one, and the last successful Superman movie was 30 years ago. The public clearly showed with there wallets in 2006 that Superman was not a guarantee of riches. You had to have something worth watching for people to go and see, and having 'Superman' in it wasn't enough reason to go and watch it.

They missed the mark, again. Superman shouldn't be gritty, or set in plausibility. It's about colour, hope, uplifting origins, having a wow factor. They shouldn't have thought (and I'm sure they didn't) 'Well we will set this up for an awesomely uplifting second movie'. There is no way they were 1. That arrogant, 2. That stupid. This was them giving it 100%, this was their masterpiece (in their eyes). In many ways they overcame a lot of the issues of SR, but absolutely regressed in other ways.. Now for the people to say, 'things change, and we need realism etc'.. Well that's an absolute assumption. Superman isn't Batman, he can't be plausible and grounded in reality, he should be colourful, exciting, and a man that uplifts an audience with inspiration and a WOW factor.

Where was the WOW moments other than mindless CGI and effects. A great introduction to the human race could have been awesome and very Superman(ish) with a grandiose theme drumming away. They weren't leaving all that for a sequel, that makes NO SENSE AT ALL.

Where was the montage of exciting 'saving the day' moments.

Where was the uplifting parts.. Pa was a d#%k in all honesty. Ma wasn't much better.

Where was the clever script that could have been adapted from several generations of materials.

I have said before, I believe in change, but I don't believe in change when it completely takes away from the character. Make the film about Superdude, or some other superhero (brand new hero) nobody knows a history of if you want to change it so much, otherwise what's the point.

This is all my opinion, I wasn't watching a great Superman story in MoS I was ironically watching something completely alien to that.

They certainly missed the mark. You hit the nail right on the head with the "Superdude" comment. I felt that this movie could have been any superhero. Any of the thousands of superheroes out there in comic book universes everywhere. I said it before, I grew up on comics, and especially the big 3 heroes, Batman, Superman, Spidey. Watched every cartoon, bought every comic I could, TV shows, movies, everything...and Superman was always in a class by himself when it came to superheroes.

I can't say this enough....Superman is an AMERICAN ICON. There's a sentimentality with that. When you think of Superman, you identify him with the values of THIS COUNTRY...truth, justice, hope, triumph. He's not just some super-powered hero that beats things up. It seems like those values that Superman champions are the things that are falling by the wayside, but that's precisely why Superman has always been an icon in this country because he strives for greater, and stands for things we all believe in but fall short of.

I really hope the filmmakers understand this and are doing some sort of build up towards that. I really want to love this version of Superman.

 

[Autonet]

I remember a review before the movie came out that said it was "too sci-fi" and I mocked it, but it's kinda true now that I think about it.

 

[Max Newlander]

They certainly missed the mark. You hit the nail right on the head with the "Superdude" comment. I felt that this movie could have been any superhero. Any of the thousands of superheroes out there in comic book universes everywhere. I said it before, I grew up on comics, and especially the big 3 heroes, Batman, Superman, Spidey. Watched every cartoon, bought every comic I could, TV shows, movies, everything...and Superman was always in a class by himself when it came to superheroes.

I can't say this enough....Superman is an AMERICAN ICON. There's a sentimentality with that. When you think of Superman, you identify him with the values of THIS COUNTRY...truth, justice, hope, triumph. He's not just some super-powered hero that beats things up. It seems like those values that Superman champions are the things that are falling by the wayside, but that's precisely why Superman has always been an icon in this country because he strives for greater, and stands for things we all believe in but fall short of.

I really hope the filmmakers understand this and are doing some sort of build up towards that. I really want to love this version of Superman.

Agreed, and for some of the fanboys (I include myself as a 'fanboy') to come up with 'once in a comic he did this and did that'. Effectively trying to justify this version of Superman, and also trying to convince themselves this was an awesome version of the character. Unfortunetly Warner, DC, Zack and Co didn't make this movies for Fanboys (not because they didn't want to) but because we are probably about 0.3% of the general audience, no matter HOW many times we go and see this, we don't make or break the movie.

So the mass public make this a real success, not us on here, and what they know of 'Superman' in much more limited in scope than most SHH posters. They know a lot of the core storyline (origins), values and the general basics about Superman. They don't know about all the different versions there have been. SR missed because of the lack of 'Super' in Superman, and some very strange plot developments (Superkid... Slaps head). MoS at least gave us ACTION, but it was mindless action, unrelatable destruction and endless CGI. I don't think this film will be fondly remembered like STM, or Begins, or even Raimi's Spider-man. I don't even think in a couple of years you will see too many copies of MoS in peoples Blueray collections. Word of mouth on this isn't great, I have seen very few 'MoS was AWESOME' social media comments within my group of friends.

Again just my thoughts and experiences.

 

[KalMart]

They certainly missed the mark. You hit the nail right on the head with the "Superdude" comment. I felt that this movie could have been any superhero. Any of the thousands of superheroes out there in comic book universes everywhere. I said it before, I grew up on comics, and especially the big 3 heroes, Batman, Superman, Spidey. Watched every cartoon, bought every comic I could, TV shows, movies, everything...and Superman was always in a class by himself when it came to superheroes.

I can't say this enough....Superman is an AMERICAN ICON. There's a sentimentality with that. When you think of Superman, you identify him with the values of THIS COUNTRY...truth, justice, hope, triumph. He's not just some super-powered hero that beats things up. It seems like those values that Superman champions are the things that are falling by the wayside, but that's precisely why Superman has always been an icon in this country because he strives for greater, and stands for things we all believe in but fall short of.

I really hope the filmmakers understand this and are doing some sort of build up towards that. I really want to love this version of Superman.

He grew up in Kansas...it doesn't get much more American than that.


And y'know what? It probably shouldn't. I think that the 'values' and morals that he stands for represent every free nation on Earth now, not just the US. Although laudable in its base message, its an antiquated sensibility to narrow it down to one country. Patriotism is fine, but being a citizen of the world isn't necessarily its opposite.

Plus...has this kid ever been out of his country....aside from that stint in the Indian Ocean to fight that giant crab?

 

[bullets]

Does anyone feel bothered to why Fiora wanted Lois Lane to accompany her and Kal El onto the ship ? I'm assuming that Zod was aware of Lois's knowledge of Clark from the news broacasts but does anyone have some ideas? For some reason it's bugging me.

It's been brought up a few times on these boards. I thought Zod wanted to use her as leverage. There's a slight possibility Zod thought Clark would be more willing to go with his plan if she was safe. Lois was on the alien ship that sent Zod a broadcast so he probably figured she was important or might of known about the codex.

 

[Enriquespy]

"You are a monster Zod, and I will stop you"

Its just like "No, I've come here to stop you" in TDKR.

Also, 20000 years old ship with kriptonian clothes is ok, having one of those clothes not only fitting you perfectly but also having the specific emblem of your family is pushing it a bit.

The Dick measuring line.

 

[KalMart]

"You are a monster Zod, and I will stop you"

Its just like "No, I've come here to stop you" in TDKR.

Also, 20000 years old ship with kriptonian clothes is ok, having one of those clothes not only fitting you perfectly but also having the specific emblem of your family is pushing it a bit.

The Dick measuring line.

Wasn't the USB key that carried JorEl's ghost or whatever responsible?

 

[Enriquespy]

Possibly, but the suit juts sort of appears, like it was there since the beginning. It could have been presented better.

 

[KalMart]

Possibly, but the suit juts sort of appears, like it was there since the beginning. It could have been presented better.

So did JorEl.


What was that about measuring...?






Yeah, the whole suit to debut thing was quite hasty altogether and not very well built up. But I would assume that the ship had the capability of making an 'instant suit' of some sort, and the USB key housed enough info about Supes to make it for him.



I have a question about time dilation in space travel though...I think JorEl's ghost said that he designed the ship...but the estimates were that the ship was there for 20,000 years?

Edit: Realized he was talking about Zod's ship.

 

[Enriquespy]

Lovely avatar, Kalmart.

Made me Laugh.

 

[writer0327]

He grew up in Kansas...it doesn't get much more American than that.


And y'know what? It probably shouldn't. I think that the 'values' and morals that he stands for represent every free nation on Earth now, not just the US. Although laudable in its base message, its an antiquated sensibility to narrow it down to one country. Patriotism is fine, but being a citizen of the world isn't necessarily its opposite.

Plus...has this kid ever been out of his country....aside from that stint in the Indian Ocean to fight that giant crab?

The values he stands for are universal and they should be empirically embodied in Superman. That didn't happen in MOS is all I'm saying. I'm not saying he should stand for only America, but rather he champions what America stands for, and we've observed that in previous Superman media, which is why he IS an American icon.

I just don't want to see Superman become "Super Dude" and all we get is him beating up aliens. There's plenty of that elsewhere.

 

[KalMart]

The values he stands for are universal and they should be empirically embodied in Superman. That didn't happen in MOS is all I'm saying. I'm not saying he should stand for only America, but rather he champions what America stands for, and we've observed that in previous Superman media, which is why he IS an American icon.

I just don't want to see Superman become "Super Dude" and all we get is him beating up aliens. There's plenty of that elsewhere.

Well...I don't think it has to be specifically worded first of all. Secondly, it's basically "Superman Begins" and in this story he has yet to really establish himself as a known and trusted hero and better clarify what he 'stands for'. But again, being uniquely American I don't think matters as much anymore. For that matter, what he stands for is just as Icelandic or Dutch as it as American. American 'icon', like the British Mini, sure. But not something that needs to be pointed/spelled out. It's already in there for those who want it.

What's maybe more important is whether it's America or somewhere else, is that he grew up in a free nation of equal opportunity, and without an indoctrinated hate for another race or creed. Although I'm a bit wary of the implication that he grew up religious as the concept of Superman pretty much negates the idea of a God and Earth being special, I'm not sure that political ideology should creep too far into a Superman story.

 

[KalMart]

Okay...another development on the suit in the ship....

The prequel comic and the movie itself establish that the ship has been there for 18,000 years. The empty pod is that of Kara Zor-El, Superman's ancestor rather than cousin in this version, which is why the ship has a House Of El uniform (though I assume it belongs to another El since Superman's suit doesn't have a cup size).

So maybe it was just really stretchy material.

 

[bullets]

It was either to digest Jor El's posthumous appearance because of the Super-usb. The suit being spandex is kind of a funny explanation , but I guess I'll buy it.

 

[writer0327]

Well...I don't think it has to be specifically worded first of all. Secondly, it's basically "Superman Begins" and in this story he has yet to really establish himself as a known and trusted hero and better clarify what he 'stands for'. But again, being uniquely American I don't think matters as much anymore. For that matter, what he stands for is just as Icelandic or Dutch as it as American. American 'icon', like the British Mini, sure. But not something that needs to be pointed/spelled out. It's already in there for those who want it.

It really isn't shown though. That's what's missing from this film....the character of Superman, his persona, what he believes in and stands for, why he goes about fighting crime, evil, and oppression at every turn. The triumph of belief, the hope for humanity, the fight for truth and justice....this is Superman and it's not clearly portrayed in this film.

If its "Superman Begins", as you say, then they still haven't finished the movie, because by the time the film is wrapped up, we should see the core of who Superman is, with all full evidence of his characteristic traits. If there is more to be fleshed out in the next film, then what was this film for?

 

[Enriquespy]

Okay...another development on the suit in the ship....




So maybe it was just really stretchy material.

Or maybe Kara was flat chested