What can DC/WB do now to move forward? Is there hope? - Part 1

[metaphysician]

Takes just as much faith to think all of them are going to continue to be terrible.

Why? Its easy to fall down, and impossible to fall up.

I mean, there are enough Batman-related movies announced that dumb luck should result in at least one of them being decent, but "WB spams enough movies that eventually they roll a natural 20" isn't exactly something to brag about, or anticipate hopefully. Its also not entirely clear this would be the case, if they continue their pattern of executive meddling to "fix" things; they might just strangle whatever luck they stumble into, instead.

 

[Osiris-Rex]

Why? Its easy to fall down, and impossible to fall up.

Quarterbacks get sacked and then throw a touchdown a few plays later all the time. There was a joke, Q: Why did John Elway get sacked so many times? A: He got up again.

 

[metaphysician]

Yeah, but when a QB gets sacked, intercepted, or otherwise mangled in 100% of their plays, you have to question whether they belong in the NFL in the first place.

Which is to say, I'll believe that WB can "turn it around" when I see actual evidence. As is, the smart money is on "dire structural flaws".

 

[Grommers]

Yeah, but when a QB gets sacked, intercepted, or otherwise mangled in 100% of their plays, you have to question whether they belong in the NFL in the first place.

Which is to say, I'll believe that WB can "turn it around" when I see actual evidence. As is, the smart money is on "dire structural flaws".

I don't even know how to respond to this - you just compared DCEU to a quarterback whose failed at all plays..yet the DCEU has been a hit so far - yes not what they expected but its still been a success :/ It's like winning, but not like a slaughter like 81-0 (keeping with nfl terms).
it's been more like a 21-0.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

Gotta maintain that DCEU IS DOOMED NARRATIVE. 3.2 billion in 3 films but it's DOOMED...DOOMED I TELL YOU!!

 

[Osiris-Rex]

Gotta maintain that DCEU IS DOOMED NARRATIVE. 3.2 billion in 3 films but it's DOOMED...DOOMED I TELL YOU!!

There is the fact that in 2016 the two DC Comics based movies made more per movie than the four movies based on Marvel comic book characters.

Worldwide:
Batman v Superman: $873 million
Suicide Squad: $746 million
Total: $1,619 million
Average: $810 millon

Captain America: Civil War: $1,153 million
Deadpool: $783 million
Dr. Strange: $676 million
X-Men: Apocalypse: $544 million
Total: 3,156 million
Average: $789 million

$810 million > $789 million

So while there are more Marvel based movies, the DC comics movie made more money per movie.

 

[Grommers]

I think comparing the MCU to the DCEU would be a bit better - which although is in favour of marvel - I have to imagine will change sooner than later, it's also not incredibly off, so I imagine the DCEU will start to take over that fairly soon.

 

[Erzengel]

There is the fact that in 2016 the two DC Comics based movies made more per movie than the four movies based on Marvel comic book characters.

Worldwide:
Batman v Superman: $873 million
Suicide Squad: $746 million
Total: $1,619 million
Average: $810 millon

Captain America: Civil War: $1,153 million
Deadpool: $783 million
Dr. Strange: $676 million
X-Men: Apocalypse: $544 million
Total: 3,156 million
Average: $789 million

$810 million > $789 million

So while there are more Marvel based movies, the DC comics movie made more money per movie.

Or if you just do the MCU properties, it's $914.5 million.

 

[Erzengel]

I think comparing the MCU to the DCEU would be a bit better - which although is in favour of marvel - I have to imagine will change sooner than later, it's also not incredibly off, so I imagine the DCEU will start to take over that fairly soon.

It starts with a first step.

Put out a movie that's at least consensus wise "good". I'm not even confident that they can put out a "top tier" one yet. Then try and string a few of those together.

I mean look at the X-Men after Origins. First Class, the Wolverine, DOFP, Deadpool, Apocalypse and Logan. In 7 years, they've been able to turn things around.

 

[Iceman]

It starts with a first step.

Put out a movie that's at least consensus wise "good". I'm not even confident that they can put out a "top tier" one yet. Then try and string a few of those together.

I mean look at the X-Men after Origins. First Class, the Wolverine, DOFP, Deadpool, Apocalypse and Logan. In 7 years, they've been able to turn things around.

Yep, and many had given up on that franchise completely at that point. Was probably a worse position than the DCEU is currently in as most are still willing to give JL a chance.

 

[ManWithNoName18]

The current Boxoffice isn't bad, good enough to continue justifying the DCEU.

I do think BVS definitely missed it's potential as a billion dollar grosser.

 

[UltimatePyro9]

The current Boxoffice isn't bad, good enough to continue justifying the DCEU.

I do think BVS definitely missed it's potential as a billion dollar grosser.

And that's the problem. The WB wanted/needed this movie to make a billion dollars. Heck, that's how it felt like they wanted. Didn't work out that way and it feels like they're scrambling to produce goodwill so the DCEU can be a big thing.

 

[Erzengel]

The amount that BvS did would be awesome for MOS, WW, Aquaman but not for BvS, JL or The Batman. The latter movies should be on the Avengers and Iron Man scale.

 

[Superchan]

The amount that BvS did would be awesome for MOS, WW, Aquaman but not for BvS, JL or The Batman. The latter movies should be on the Avengers and Iron Man scale.

I would agree with BvS and JL but 870 mill for Batman would be awesome! While Batman is massive he wasn't a billion dollar franchise until Nolan got a hold of him and BvS proved that you can't just put batman in a movie and expect a billion (even with superman being right there with him) cos he ain't transformers or pirates or any of those franchises that seem to make a billion no matter what.
If and when the batman gets made, Reeves & Affleck will need to bring their A game to even hope of beating BvS's boxoffice.

Gotta maintain that DCEU IS DOOMED NARRATIVE. 3.2 billion in 3 films but it's DOOMED...DOOMED I TELL YOU!!

The news of DCEU's demise are greatly exaggerated, which is what fanboys do best. However the DCEU is undoubtedly under performing, hence WB's very public course correction attempts. MOS not cracking the 700 and BvS not cracking the 900 is not acceptable, only SS performed exceptionally well out of the 3 and interestingly enough it was the only film that wasn't directed by Snyder whose films (300 being the exception) have a dubious track record of opening big and dropping like a rock.

 

[The Joker]

So while there are more Marvel based movies, the DC comics movie made more money per movie.

How many DCEU movies have made a billion each?

 

[Mandon Knight]

money ain't everything folks...just saying...

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

The current Boxoffice isn't bad, good enough to continue justifying the DCEU.

If it stays that way. But history shows it is far more likely than not to drop once the novelty wears off.

 

[Erzengel]

money ain't everything folks...just saying...

When you are making $250M plus movies in production costs alone then yeah it is.

 

[Mandon Knight]

When you are making $250M plus movies in production costs alone then yeah it is.

It's not the be all and end all on judging the quality of a film though, that's all I'm saying.

 

[Grommers]

If it stays that way. But history shows it is far more likely than not to drop once the novelty wears off.

Quite the opposite - DVD sales have been solid, much better than Marvel Counter-parts.

Look at from Batman Begins to TDK, they were laughing, same sort of thing will happen here.

 

[Grommers]

When you are making $250M plus movies in production costs alone then yeah it is.

And still pulling in 300+ million in profit is actually worth it, where else are you gonna get a 100% return on your money in about 1-2 years of production?

 

[Flint Marko]

DVD sales have been solid, much better than Marvel Counter-parts.

Source?

And still pulling in 300+ million in profit

Where is this number coming from?

 

[Erzengel]

It's not the be all and end all on judging the quality of a film though, that's all I'm saying.

So...if your flagship A list tent pole box office release for the year fails to make over $1B. Gets panned by the critics. With fans giving it the lowest Cinemascore since Catwoman and GL, what else is there to judge by?

 

[Grommers]

Source?
http://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Captain-America-Civil-War#tab=summary
http://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Batman-v-Superman-Dawn-of-Justice#tab=summary

You can compare the two dvd sales and B vs S is higher.


Where is this number coming from?

The second number is if it made 800 million roughly, 250 million for production, even 200 million for marketting / distribution etc.

That still leaves 350 million, yes Civil war pulled in much more from the box office, but in no way is it being close to a failure.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Quite the opposite - DVD sales have been solid, much better than Marvel Counter-parts.

Look at from Batman Begins to TDK, they were laughing, same sort of thing will happen here.

That isn't the same situation at all. Batman Begins actually shows the damage that poorly received films, even starring popular characters, can do. People didn't like Batman & Robin, so they didn't show up for Batman Begins and it underperformed. We've also seen this after The Phantom Menace and after countless other widely disliked blockbusters.

BvS has way more in common with Batman & Robin than Batman Begins.