The Dark Knight What can kill TDK as a movie? Overestimating?

[kenellard]

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[Keyser Sushi]

edit

Way to octuple-post, guv'na.

All I will say is that

1.) Most Bond movies are garbage, but a few of them are wonderful. Casino Royale is one of these.

2.) I have to assume that Nolan has an idea of what Ledger is capable of or he would not hae cast him.

EDIT: It was eight, I thought it was seven.

 

[kenellard]

Way to septuple-post, guv'na.

All I will say is that

1.) Most Bond movies are garbage, but a few of them are wonderful. Casino Royale is one of these.

2.) I have to assume that Nolan has an idea of what Ledger is capable of or he would not hae cast him.

yeah, that was pretty impressive

1. I haven't seen one in the cinema since goldeneye, that was pretty good, I might check CR out this week

2. so do I, I'm not suggesting Nolan doesn't think he's the man for the job, but i haven't seen much to tell me he is, short of him coming to my house for a screentest I'll be in the dark on it for some time

 

[Keyser Sushi]

yeah, that was pretty impressive

LOL yes it was.

1. I haven't seen one in the cinema since goldeneye, that was pretty good, I might check CR out this week

This beats the panties off Goldeneye. This is Bond in the early Connery tradition.

2. so do I, I'm not suggesting Nolan doesn't think he's the man for the job, but i haven't seen much to tell me he is, short of him coming to my house for a screentest I'll be in the dark on it for some time

Well, I respect not having a blind trust for any director.

On the other hand, I don't think "risk" is the right word. I think what you just said here at the end is a fair and balanced statement, though.

 

[StorminNorman]

If Connery was more manly - he would would be Daniel Craig

 

[kenellard]

indeed, a sound note to end this evenings proceedings, stay classy SHH

 

[Keyser Sushi]

If Connery was more manly - he would would be Daniel Craig

LOL!!!

Shomehow I wonda what Sean Connery would have to shay aboot dat...

 

[L0ngsh0t]

Way to octuple-post, guv'na.

All I will say is that

1.) Most Bond movies are garbage, but a few of them are wonderful. Casino Royale is one of these.

2.) I have to assume that Nolan has an idea of what Ledger is capable of or he would not hae cast him.

EDIT: It was eight, I thought it was seven.

Can I please ****ing nit pick at your **** for once? You spelt have wrong, I fear the Night School classes are lacking in there years...jk

Wait a minute, what? outside of the two most recent ones (being World is not enough, and Die another day), there aren't any that are complete garbage. There are a few that are of a lesser quality then the rest, but most are very good. Casino Royale though, is instantly top 5 bond movie

On the Ledger note, weather you like him or not, he is the person Nolan best feels will portray his version of the Joker. That is what makes me very excited for Ledger, and whomever it will be that plays Dent, I will be very excited to see him playing the character, outside of the little jakey he just will not resemble anything close to pretty much every drawing of Dent ever. But besides that, I am not a terribley huge fan of Schrieber, but if he is who Nolan wants, and he is who Nolan thinks can best fit what he is trying to do with Dent, then by all means, I'll give it a very fair, and excited chance.

 

[Cinemaman]

Anyway, to answer the question... here are some things that could really bring TDK down:

cheesy one liners
muddled plot
too many insignificant characters and simple plot devices

How?

You know who is screenwriter this time? - Nolan's brother (who also wrote Memento and The Prestige), what means great screenplay.

And BTW, I doubt there will be too much characters (especially after we got to know that probably there will be no Penguin). And if it is so, then you can re-watch BB and realize how good were fitted all characters.

 

[Cinemaman]

I think that too, especially the cheesy one-liners, a serious movie can have humour without a certain character practically waving a big "COMIC RELIEF!" flag every ten minutes, they just seem awkward and forced

Honestly I don't think there should be jokes. Funny moments? Yeah sure, jokes? Not so necessary stuff in script of so serious movie.

This new Nolan's trilogy isn't Spidey franchise and also it must not look like previous Bat-movies.

I mean, just look at X-Men (except 3rd movie). This franchise looked very serious before X3 came with a lot of jokes and action scenes.

X1 and X2 were very serious movies, which also had 2-3 funny scenes. And that was enough.

The same goes to bat-franchise.

 

[Cinemaman]

^^ They're all at a party.

 

[Cinemaman]

I'm not really into bond movies, I've heard good things about CR though.

I think it's a risk because he's never had a role anywhere near as intense as the joker, so I worry that he won't be able to pull it off, as there isn't any evidence to prove he can, that's pretty much it. I wouldn't ever run him down because he played a gay cowboy, that's just a lame troll-esque way to belittle someones point, I'm all up for "Brokeback 2: back in the habit"

Don't worry. I saw last time Ledger in very serious and depressive movie, it's called Candy.

And I think you should also watch it, if you don't have so much faith in him.

BTW, Ledger is really very good actor and he has a nice view for Joker. Yeah, some of his movies were bad, but it doesn't mean that he was bad in them.

Besides, nobody had faith in Keaton, Reeve, Routh, Maguire, Craig and etc. And who are they now? Batman, Superman, Spider-man and James Bond.

I believe that Ledger will do a great job, especially with the help of such a talented director as Nolan.

 

[Miranda Fox]

About 5x better than BB that's for sure. That's all that matters.

Good to know.

Mm, when it comes to Heath, I think we have a few different schools of thought here:

1. Those who, having enjoyed some of his past work or have been fans for ages (*raises hand* that'd be me) and therefore think he could do a terrific job. But still are not completely sure.

2. Those who aren't fans of it but trust Nolan's judgement.

3. Those who really don't like the decision and think it's fulfilling to spend all their free time ranting about it.

4. Trolls who still think the word gay is funny.

I'm choosing to disregard the last two.

But I think number 2 are the most common and, undeniably, Ledger's performance, if it ends up being terrible, would sink TDK. So this definitely is on the list.

As to Dent - this has been a big worry of mine because he will be the main villian in the third film. If they really mess that casting up then the third film is sunk by default. It's why I can believe they really are looking at Oscar nominees/winners for this role. Which, for now, I'll take as a good thing.

 

[Babs Gordon]

How?

You know who is screenwriter this time? - Nolan's brother (who also wrote Memento and The Prestige), what means great screenplay.

And BTW, I doubt there will be too much characters (especially after we got to know that probably there will be no Penguin). And if it is so, then you can re-watch BB and realize how good were fitted all characters.

I'm not saying it's going to happen. I highly doubt that will happen. I'm just saying... if there's anything that can kill a movie for me, it's those. Oceans 12 had too many characters and a muddled plot. It could have been good were it not for those things.

 

[Crooklyn]

As to Dent - this has been a big worry of mine because he will be the main villian in the third film. If they really mess that casting up then the third film is sunk by default. It's why I can believe they really are looking at Oscar nominees/winners for this role. Which, for now, I'll take as a good thing.

Heh...never did think about it that way. Pretty funny though. Would really suck if the fanbase was split on Dent. Cause then the 3rd has pretty much half the hype going in!

Oceans 12 had too many characters and a muddled plot. It could have been good were it not for those things.

O12 had roughly the same amount of characters from the first, didn't it? I'd say the film's biggest problem was definitely the script. Hopefully they'll fix that. I absolutely loved the first.

 

[Babs Gordon]

I think they tried to give to much attention to each character. The plot was just too cumbersome.

 

[kenellard]

Can I please ****ing nit pick at your **** for once? You spelt have wrong, I fear the Night School classes are lacking in there years...jk

Wait a minute, what? outside of the two most recent ones (being World is not enough, and Die another day), there aren't any that are complete garbage. There are a few that are of a lesser quality then the rest, but most are very good. Casino Royale though, is instantly top 5 bond movie

On the Ledger note, weather you like him or not, he is the person Nolan best feels will portray his version of the Joker. That is what makes me very excited for Ledger, and whomever it will be that plays Dent, I will be very excited to see him playing the character, outside of the little jakey he just will not resemble anything close to pretty much every drawing of Dent ever. But besides that, I am not a terribley huge fan of Schrieber, but if he is who Nolan wants, and he is who Nolan thinks can best fit what he is trying to do with Dent, then by all means, I'll give it a very fair, and excited chance.

ok, I know this little rant wasn't directed at me but I just think it's hilarious. "I fear the night classes are lacking in there years" doesn't even make sense grammatically, and in any case it wasn't even a good dig at Keyser. I do find it strange how so many people these days use the word "then" when they mean to say "than".

Sometimes words sound the same, yet have a different spelling and meaning, like "weather" and "whether" for example.

I also find it funny when people incorrectly use too many prepositions in their sentences in an attempt to sound intelligent, especially when they misspell them.

Oh yes, I pick the nits that none thought pickable t:

 

[Miranda Fox]

Heh...never did think about it that way. Pretty funny though. Would really suck if the fanbase was split on Dent. Cause then the 3rd has pretty much half the hype going in!

*nods* IMO, it's actually more important to the success of the series as a whole than Joker in some ways.

 

[L0ngsh0t]

I'm not saying it's going to happen. I highly doubt that will happen. I'm just saying... if there's anything that can kill a movie for me, it's those. Oceans 12 had too many characters and a muddled plot. It could have been good were it not for those things.

Please, Oceans 12 had one more character in it, then Oceans 11, but yes, the plot was a little muddled, I highly disagree with the fact, that it was the one extra character that did it to the moive. I would probobly think giving more screen time to Brad, George, and more specifically Matt Damon (who had alot larger role in 12, then he did in 11) where probably what made it seem like there wasn't enough room for everyone.

However, Oceans 11 is the almost dictionary definition of how an ensemble movie should be made, and the X-Men movies should have taken notes, because they where complaining about having 6 or 7 X-Men, so Gambit couldn't be in the moives. Well, Steven Soderberg did it with 13 main speaking parts (including Garcia, and Roberts) and all but one or two of the actors could have been the top bill in another movie, and it was (11) brilliant

 

[Ronny Shade]

Way to octuple-post, guv'na.

All I will say is that

1.) Most Bond movies are garbage, but a few of them are wonderful. Casino Royale is one of these.

2.) I have to assume that Nolan has an idea of what Ledger is capable of or he would not hae cast him.

EDIT: It was eight, I thought it was seven.

I liked Casino Royale, but I wouldn't qualify it as "wonderful."

It was frankly, kind of boring. It was basically your run-of-the-mill espionage action flick.

 

[Cinemaman]

I'm not saying it's going to happen. I highly doubt that will happen. I'm just saying... if there's anything that can kill a movie for me, it's those. Oceans 12 had too many characters and a muddled plot. It could have been good were it not for those things.

Alright, now I see this.

 

[darknite17]

I agree with studio hype and your opinion about pressure from external sources.
To restart the Batman franchise can't easy thing to concieve, since every Bat-Fan has their own perception it s always going to upset a few people.
I also like the fact that your viewing led you into something dark and mystical about the character that Nolan did, was either subjective fluke nor a clever sleight of hand. If this aspect was more developed then we could've had a solid direction for the films to be more resonating.
I love momento and insomnia, they are regarded highly as great stories with great story telling. I just feel that be made the latter two as a sort of Indie-low budget style which dressed up as heavyweight hollywood. But Batman Begins seemed to have the same, only reversed. I appreciatte that some of us like it like that. But I cant help but feel disappointed.
I must add that if Begins had any affect on me I would some it up in one word. Scared. The way Nolan toyed with the lighting or just something, I cant put my hand on. It felt like a Gothic Opera. The understated performanced were becoming more and more dramatic as the film went on, the mood was very somber aswell reflecting on tragedy and fear more than anything.
If TDK is going to be fresh and exciting, then Nolan should explore Batman's Heroism. Conforming to the trilogy formula if there is such a thing anymore, has worked for so many directors and episodic stories aswell.

 

[Babs Gordon]

Please, Oceans 12 had one more character in it, then Oceans 11, but yes, the plot was a little muddled, I highly disagree with the fact, that it was the one extra character that did it to the moive. I would probobly think giving more screen time to Brad, George, and more specifically Matt Damon (who had alot larger role in 12, then he did in 11) where probably what made it seem like there wasn't enough room for everyone.

However, Oceans 11 is the almost dictionary definition of how an ensemble movie should be made, and the X-Men movies should have taken notes, because they where complaining about having 6 or 7 X-Men, so Gambit couldn't be in the moives. Well, Steven Soderberg did it with 13 main speaking parts (including Garcia, and Roberts) and all but one or two of the actors could have been the top bill in another movie, and it was (11) brilliant

Why are you some combative? Here's a prescription for chill pills. Go get it filled.

Oceans 11 was fantastic, I agree. It was managed perfectly. And what you pointed out about the screentime for characters was something I'd already pointed out above. Oceans 12 was just mismanaged.

 

[ronzpeed]

ok, so "previous trilogies have had bad final parts, therefore so will Nolan's trilogy". y'know alot of people would say you're the greatest genius the world has ever known, and alot of people would be right.

i know i'm a genius, but really i just don't see the third film as being better than tdk. if they put two-face as the real main vilain, he wouldn't be as threatening as the joker

 

[Keyser Sushi]

I liked Casino Royale, but I wouldn't qualify it as "wonderful."

It was frankly, kind of boring.

Hell, I loved every second of it.

It was basically your run-of-the-mill espionage action flick.

Yes, but I happen to like those - and ultimately this is what James Bond is supposed to be.