The Dark Knight Rises What do you not like about the movie?

[kvz5]

Bruce will have to come back once Blake gets himself killed on his first night out because he didn't have the proper training.

Nah, he won't. He and Selina would just be laughing their ass off on how they trolled Blake into taking the mantle.

 

[DuceFace]

I was fine with his Bat-voice throughout the film but it got to the point of parody in that scene.

I've always had a bit of an issue with the bat voice from time to time. This movie didn't have as many of those moments as TDK. If you want to hear a really awesome version of the bat voice, listen to the Spanish dialog for TDK, it's absolutely amazing, it's a really great interpretation of the voice. I watched the interrogation of the joker this way last night and really enjoyed it. Check it out!

 

[superpower]

My biggest gripe is that Bruce Wayne lost his fortune.

Let me get this straight...a gang of armed terrorists take over Gotham's stock exchange and do...something...with a computer while holding everyone hostage. At that exact moment, Bruce Wayne dumps every bit of his money into bad investments. The investments tank and Bruce Wayne is broke. It makes NO sense that any stock movement that happened during the hostage situation/computer hacking would actually be considered valid. Considering how much of the film is based around getting his fingerprints to make him broke, the stock exchange scene, the subsequent chase, and the "I'm broke" story that followed, this takes up quite a bit of screen time on something that I couldn't accept. Odd considering that I totally accept the idea of a guy fighting crime in a bat suit.

He's probably not completely broke but it made sense how it happened.

They took his prints to be able to trade his stocks and make it look like he did it.

Now Bruce is the the majority shareholder of Wayne ent. and when it comes to stock prices its like everything else and based on supply and demand. So the more of that 51% share of stock bane puts up for sale the cheaper it sells for which begins the reduction of his wealth and the bankrupting or Wayne ent. Now take that cash and continue making bad investments, moving the money around quickly until its gone. Or deposit in a Swiss bank account for later use.

Either way when the other 49% of investors see that price drop what will a lot of those people do, especially with a messed up clean energy plan and reclusive BW, sell sell sell...

Their sales end up putting more shares, remember supply and demand, up for sale which drives the price per stock even lower.

Next thing you know they're selling the contents of Wayne manor to pay off creditors and shareholders.

 

[ABleedingCorpse]

The Stock Exchange thing bugged me. Here you have video footage, news coverage, witnesses and cops involved in this plot point....and some how, the sudden crash in Wayne Stock (yeah...Wayne Stock....Garth lost a lot of money in this scam) the very next day after this event and yet lawyers can't easily see or point out that the terrorist who attacked the Stock Exchange had something to do with it? Proving fraud should have been as easy as Bruce sneaking back into Gotham.

 

[kvz5]

Since we were talking about this in the GD thread, I HATED the quick cut/transition in the Bruce/Gordon hospital scene. WTF was that?! It totally lost all the emotional weight of that scene. Such a wasted moment. It could've been up there with the Bruce/Alfred confrontation scene in terms of memorable emotional scenes.

 

[superpower]

The Stock Exchange thing bugged me. Here you have video footage, news coverage, witnesses and cops involved in this plot point....and some how, the sudden crash in Wayne Stock (yeah...Wayne Stock....Garth lost a lot of money in this scam) the very next day after this event and yet lawyers can't easily see or point out that the terrorist who attacked the Stock Exchange had something to do with it? Proving fraud should have been as easy as Bruce sneaking back into Gotham.

As Fox said.. fraud could be proven eventually.

Imagine if it was just a program moving all of that cash. Multiple trades per minute, hundreds of trades actually or maybe even more. That's a lot of work to weed through all of that.

Though bane could have cashed out once once the crash was set in motion but even then they would have to find that cash.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

The crash had it's intended effect. It's wasn't meant to have lasted long term. The plan was to force Bruce to make a drastic move to save the company. Box him into a corner, and he'd need to make the only move he could. Falling right into their lap, and getting the weapon.

 

[kvz5]

Well Fox admitted as much that Bruce is extremely paranoid so he must have some back up finances in times like that.

 

[Thundercrack85]

That Gordon didn't know that Bruce Wayne was Batman.

Seriously. He just connected those dots at the last minute? Even though multiple other characters, with less of a personal connection to Batman and Bruce figured it out on their own?

Throughout the films I assumed he knew all along (sort of seemed implied), but never said it out loud.

Surprised Catwoman didn't say "duh".

There were many other things, but that one really stood out.

 

[ABleedingCorpse]

The crash had it's intended effect. It's wasn't meant to have lasted long term. The plan was to force Bruce to make a drastic move to save the company. Box him into a corner, and he'd need to make the only move he could. Falling right into their lap, and getting the weapon.

Okay..that makes more sense to me now. But still, the next day after that event and nobody on the board (Daggett excluded) would have put two and two together and said "Look, Wayne is still in charge and on the board because we all know this is connected to the terrorist act on the stock exchange yesturday. This is fraud and we'll prove it!" Yes, Fox could "eventrually" prove fraud, so what was the fuss with the Board and all of this? It's like everyone in the room disreguarded the the Top News Story from last night (or second top news story, Batman always makes the front page).

 

[ABleedingCorpse]

That Gordon didn't know that Bruce Wayne was Batman.

Seriously. He just connected those dots at the last minute? Even though multiple other characters, with less of a personal connection to Batman and Bruce figured it out on their own?

Throughout the films I assumed he knew all along (sort of seemed implied), but never said it out loud.

Surprised Catwoman didn't say "duh".

There were many other things, but that one really stood out.

Gorden didn't want to know who Batman was. He didn't care. Yeah, if he wanted to, he could have figured it out, but he refused to do so. And if he DID know, he would keep that information to himself and never tell a soul. Selina only knew because of Bane. Blake knew because...he's a hothead and possibly put the piece together of troubled rich orphan Bruce and Batman's need to have money to fund his operations. The same way Blake figured out who Batman was, Gordon could have easily done also..but simply refused or ingored to do so himself..because he didn't want to know.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I inferred that he knew, but didn't say it... Like in TAS.

How could he not know? Short of Bruce telling him... (in the Batman voice) "hey, I'm Batman", it was as obvious as it could get.

They could have handled it better.

 

[ABleedingCorpse]

I inferred that he knew, but didn't say it... Like in TAS.

How could he not know? Short of Bruce telling him... (in the Batman voice) "hey, I'm Batman", it was as obvious as it could get.

They could have handled it better.

Perhaps he only strongly assumed Bruce was Batman, but never went any further with it. Over the years, he simply forgot or disreguarded the notion of Wayne being Batman. But the way it's reveale to him, makes it kinda clear that he was a bit taken back by the hint.

 

[TripXyDE]

Bruce Wayne was skinny one second; then muscular the next
I'm not sure if somebody has already pointed this out
[God I miss being in these threads]

 

[ABleedingCorpse]

Bruce Wayne was skinny one second; then muscular the next
I'm not sure if somebody has already pointed this out
[God I miss being in these threads]

He looked skinny. Had a lot to do with clothing choice and that facial hair. Goatee's make the face appear boneish on some people, like Bale. Of course, they could have filmed all of Bale's "isolated" scenes first, and given him a month or two to work out while they filmed other scenes involving Bane.

 

[UaalaDan]

Regarding Gordon not knowing his secret identity, Gordon says in the end to Batman before the hero line that he didn't care and didn't want to know so that solves this problem, imo.

After a second viewing I like the movie a bit more. I think it deserves an 8 but I don't know if it's better than Batman Begins. It didn't touch me in the same way, though. I still have some problems with the movie though.

1)First and foremost, the way Alfred was dealt in this movie:

I think to me the problem with the issue of him quitting comes to the fact that Gotham does need Batman as another maniac is loose on the streets. No, the police can't solve it and that has always been what caused Bruce to suit up. Bruce understood that if he needed to die trying, then whatever, that's how it is.

This Alfred thing would've been solved had Alfred picked Bruce up after he escaped from the prison and somehow helped him return and enter Gotham. When a city is the brink of destruction, petty personal problems are put aside for a greater cause. Isn't what they tried to show with the pointless Foley character??? This theme should've been used with Alfred who is much more important to the series than a stupid invented character that served absolutely no purpose in the movie other than create force drama. They even wrote Gordon out of the movie so Foley had to take his place which is a stupid move.

Alfred should have accepted that Batman is the only person who could've stopped Bane and the city from Nuclear destruction and should've accepted that if he needs to die in the battle, the salvation of the city is more important. A redemption and reconciliation would've be cool before the third act. A final goodbye. The way it is in the movie, Alfred disappears for 2 hours of the movie and that's it. Nolan simply wrote him out and that is a complete disservice to the character. That sucked! Moreover, he should've been proud that Bruce saved the city in the end even if cost him his life. Also, something i didnt like was that Bruce let him mourn and suffer his death. If he was going to tell him later, why would he do that to the person who raised him? It makes no sense to me.

2) Batman CLEARLY murdered the driver of Talia's truck. I've seen the movie again and that is what they show in it.

3) How the pit worked and what you had to do to escape was fuzzy as hell and very unclear. The rope only went to the step? Why couldn't the rope be used to go to the other step so you didn't have to jump? The space wasn't very clearly shown, imo. Just a leap of faith explanation isn't enough for me.

4) We should've been shown how a broke Bruce Wayne returned and entered Gotham. Maybe with help of those pilots in TDK? Alfred? Superman flew him there? Anything would've been better than what we got

5)Talia still had an awful death scene and the character of Miranda Tate needed better development.

6) I really missed a Joker mention and Bruce visiting his parents grave. Maybe they should've shown that in the beginning of the movie.

7)Did I tell you that Foley was completely useless?

8) I still don't like that John Blake's legal name was Robin.

Those are some of my problems that even after a second viewing, I still don't like it.

 

[ABleedingCorpse]

Actually, Gordon said to Batman that the people of Gotham DESERVE TO KNOW who saved them and then Batman gives the 'Hero' line to him...and then Gordon pieces it together...but chooses to keep the information to himself..as he understood that Batman wasn't a NAME, but a Symbol. Though it would haunt him to know that he's kept a secret from people once again...that is until he find the Batsignal fixed..then he understand the meaning of it all.

I don't know. Gordon just didn't care to know who Batman was until THAT moment when he understood that Batman was going to be "no more" and that he felt people deserved to know who Batman was. That the person under the mask deserved respect from Gotham, but when he learns it's Wayne...it's more than likely he understood the reasoning that Batman is unknown.

 

[UaalaDan]

Actually, Gordon said to Batman that the people of Gotham DESERVE TO KNOW who saved them and then Batman gives the 'Hero' line to him...and then Gordon pieces it together...but chooses to keep the information to himself..as he understood that Batman wasn't a NAME, but a Symbol. Though it would haunt him to know that he's kept a secret from people once again...that is until he find the Batsignal fixed..then he understand the meaning of it all.

I don't know. Gordon just didn't care to know who Batman was until THAT moment when he understood that Batman was going to be "no more" and that he felt people deserved to know who Batman was. That the person under the mask deserved respect from Gotham, but when he learns it's Wayne...it's more than likely he understood the reasoning that Batman is unknown.

Yeah, i think that was dealt well in the movie. The problem people had is that the way Blake found out, it made Gordon look like a fool for not knowing. So, it is explained in the movie Gordon simply didnt want to know and didnt care and that is fine with me.

Also, this is what causes Blake to quit the force. He is tired of the lies. I thought it was awesome when he said that the institutions are failing and are in shackles. Perfect foreshadowing for him thinking exactly like Batman.

 

[ABleedingCorpse]

Blake figuring out who Batman was and Gordon NOT figuring out are two seperate things. Two seperat reasonings. Gordon didn't have the same experiance Blake did in understanding Bruce. Blake figured out who Bruce was over years of making up stories and legends of this ubber cool awesome rich orphane known as Bruce Wayne who he saw had pain in his eyes and hid it. Gordon wasn't an orphan and didn't spend his childhood looking up to Batman AND Bruce Wayne. I figured Blake make up a story that Bruce was Batman and gave his reasons for it...Bruce hid the anger and wore a mask..that planted an idea in Blakes head to expand it and eventrually...he put two and two together. Who ELSE would be Batman other than Bruce Wayne (in his eyes of course). It's not so obvious to others in the city like Gordon, but to Blake..he had an idea because the THOUGHT about it for sooooo long where as Gordon didn't. Gordon didn't spend his nights thinking about who Batman was, he didn't care and didn't want to know. Sure, he may have thought about it. He may have said "Bruce Wayne? Naw, not that toolbag of snobbish money.", but he never ACTED on it like Blake did.

It's all in the reasoning.

 

[UaalaDan]

Yeah, he completely figured out that the public Bruce Wayne was a mask. I don't have a problem with that anymore. Blake was dealt really well in the movie and JGL was probably the best part of the whole thing.

 

[Doc Samson]

Blake figuring out who Batman was and Gordon NOT figuring out are two seperate things. Two seperat reasonings. Gordon didn't have the same experiance Blake did in understanding Bruce. Blake figured out who Bruce was over years of making up stories and legends of this ubber cool awesome rich orphane known as Bruce Wayne who he saw had pain in his eyes and hid it. Gordon wasn't an orphan and didn't spend his childhood looking up to Batman AND Bruce Wayne. I figured Blake make up a story that Bruce was Batman and gave his reasons for it...Bruce hid the anger and wore a mask..that planted an idea in Blakes head to expand it and eventrually...he put two and two together. Who ELSE would be Batman other than Bruce Wayne (in his eyes of course). It's not so obvious to others in the city like Gordon, but to Blake..he had an idea because the THOUGHT about it for sooooo long where as Gordon didn't. Gordon didn't spend his nights thinking about who Batman was, he didn't care and didn't want to know. Sure, he may have thought about it. He may have said "Bruce Wayne? Naw, not that toolbag of snobbish money.", but he never ACTED on it like Blake did.

It's all in the reasoning.

Exactly, Gordon specifically shows on two separate occasions in the movie that he didn't really want to know who Batman was, probably for the same reason Lucius gives in BB. "If you don't want to tell me what your up to, when I'm asked, I don't have to lie."

 

[Vader815]

As Rises shows, he has a natural animosity towards lying anyway, clearly struggling with the lies made at the end of TDK. Connecting Batman is Bruce Wayne just adds another burden of duty to him.

-Vader

 

[UaalaDan]

I forgot to mention one thing that also bothered me: The ending.

During this franchise, it kind of bothers me that Alfred never really comes to the realization that for Bruce, Batman IS living.

They keep treating Batman as this horrible thing Bruce does, but rarely does the film explore the freedom that it gave him, as an outlet for his pain, as a transformation into something more compassionate than a revenge driven young man.

Alfred wants him to "live", but what Bruce wants (historically) is to be Batman. I just find it odd that this never really comes up. Its kind of one of the key elements of the mythos.

Nolan, because of this fact, never got the character completely right, imo. It's his movies and his vision but I certainly don't like the ending or agree with it. That IS NOT the Batman I've been reading in the comics all these years. Bruce would never quit Gotham and start a new life in a new country. He could've quit being Batman because he is old and his body doesnt support that kind of life but the Bruce Wayne I know and love would have stayed in the city and helped train Blake because the fighting for true and justice is never-ending and he clearly needs training.

Moreover, it was shown in TDK that not everyone can be Batman. Those wannabees also had will to do what is right but something was missing. And then, in this movie, he says that anyone can be Batman and that he is just a symbol. Makes no sense.

No! Batman is not just a symbol. Bruce Wayne is Batman and he can never get over the pain and simply quit and leave Gotham for a better life. That is BS!

 

[Doc Samson]

I forgot to mention one thing that also bothered me: The ending.


Nolan, because of this fact, never got the character completely right, imo. It's his movies and his vision but I certainly don't like the ending or agree with it. That IS NOT the Batman I've been reading in the comics all these years. Bruce would never quit Gotham and start a new life in a new country. He could've quit being Batman because he is old and his body doesnt support that kind of life but the Bruce Wayne I know and love would have stayed in the city and helped train Blake because the fighting for true and justice is never-ending and he clearly needs training.

Moreover, it was shown in TDK that not everyone can be Batman. Those wannabees also had will to do what is right but something was missing. And then, in this movie, he says that anyone can be Batman and that he is just a symbol. Makes no sense.

No! Batman is not just a symbol. Bruce Wayne is Batman and he can never get over the pain and simply quit and leave Gotham for a better life. That is BS!

Exactly, it's not at all the same, and I also don't feel that's necessarily a bad thing. Nolan created his own lane within the Batman mythos, I don't know why this is such a horribly bad move. This Bruce has always viewed Batman as a temporary thing, had Dent not stepped forward at that press conference in TDK, Bruce would've quit then. In BB, he says he wants to inspire people and shake them out of apathy. In TDKR, he's finally done that. Story over.

 

[UaalaDan]

That's cool. I just don't like it.

You know, just like in TDK, It was shown that even if he wants to quit, there's always something in the way. Maybe this can be dealt in future movies or JLA. Maybe Blake will die and Bruce has to comeback old and all like in Dark Knight Returns.

It would be a great idea for a World's Finest movie.