Homecoming What should they do with the Spidey franchise? - Part 2

[XtremelyBaneful]

The complete lack of casting news or just plain news of any kind from Sony's end regarding S6 and TASM3 tells me something's up. The last time we heard anything was back in September when Garfield was asked about S6, which was two months prior to the hacks.

what confuses me about the hack is this: I thought what was released to the public was a bunch of old emails that the company had.

so all this talk about disney wanting spidey for cap3, I'm guessing it was old talks between the two conglomerates, but in light of the leak, sony was saying, "oh what the hell, we've been hacked so everybody's gonna know now, let's start talking to disney again" and that's where we are at now.

am I correct in my assessment?

 

[degraves93]

what confuses me about the hack is this: I thought what was released to the public was a bunch of old emails that the company had.

so all this talk about disney wanting spidey for cap3, I'm guessing it was old talks between the two conglomerates, but in light of the leak, sony was saying, "oh what the hell, we've been hacked so everybody's gonna know now, let's start talking to disney again" and that's where we are at now.

am I correct in my assessment?

Sounds about right. If the reports from Latino Review, CBM and Reddit are true, and they stand a good chance of being true, Sony Japan is really unhappy with the direction of the Spider-Man franchise and they coerced Sony Pictures to renegotiate with Disney/Marvel. Apparently, Feige is pretty confident in the direction of talks, as there's already a rumored cast list.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Sounds about right. If the reports from Latino Review, CBM and Reddit are true, and they stand a good chance of being true, Sony Japan is really unhappy with the direction of the Spider-Man franchise and they coerced Sony Pictures to renegotiate with Disney/Marvel. Apparently, Feige is pretty confident in the direction of talks, as there's already a rumored cast list.

so sony japan have been unhappy with the asm series, but did the leak prompt them into making sony pictures talk to disney again? like if the leak never happened, would the february meeting, the spidey summit maybe talking about this deal, and these supposed post-leak emails/talks between the two conglomerates have been happening?

also, I hear avi arad needs to be like completely out of the picture for it to work. i say go for it. fire the mofo.

 

[degraves93]

so sony japan have been unhappy with the asm series, but did the leak prompt them into making sony pictures talk to disney again? like if the leak never happened, would the february meeting, the spidey summit maybe talking about this deal, and these supposed post-leak emails/talks between the two conglomerates have been happening?

also, I hear avi arad needs to be like completely out of the picture for it to work. i say go for it. fire the mofo.

I think so. I believe that if TASM2 hadn't gotten such a mediocre box office and critical reception, we wouldn't even be talking about this right now. It's been months since we've heard anything from Sony. I firmly believe the deal has a great shot of happening, it's just a matter of when we'll find out.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I think so. I believe that if TASM2 hadn't gotten such a mediocre box office and critical reception, we wouldn't even be talking about this right now. It's been months since we've heard anything from Sony. I firmly believe the deal has a great shot of happening, it's just a matter of when we'll find out.

i would love for it to happen bro but don't forget, sony can be pretty delusional. i feel like their bad might break the best in them and they'll think they'll be fine just continuing things on on their own.

 

[degraves93]

i would love for it to happen bro but don't forget, sony can be pretty delusional. i feel like their bad might break the best in them and they'll think they'll be fine just continuing things on on their own.

Very true. There's just not as much money in continuing on their own though. Even they should recognize that.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Very true. There's just not as much money in continuing on their own though. Even they should recognize that.

uhh, that new walkman that costs over a G, how much do you think it costed them to manufacture it? and realistically, what target audience are trying to get at with that product?

did they recognize that these questions need very important answers before going to post production...?

 

[Spider2099]

From what I understand, the deal between Marvel and Sony didn't go through and Sony Japan is angry about that, in addition to the studio poorly handling the character on screen.

 

[degraves93]

uhh, that new walkman that costs over a G, how much do you think it costed them to manufacture it? and realistically, what target audience are trying to get at with that product?

did they recognize that these questions need very important answers before going to post production...?

They're crazy. IDK man, I just don't see the other options working, even a second reboot.

 

[Spider2099]

did they recognize that these questions need very important answers before going to post production...?

I guess not considering the studio spent over $400M by the time the movie was released.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

From what I understand, the deal between Marvel and Sony didn't go through and Sony Japan is angry about that, in addition to the studio poorly handling the character on screen.

OK, I'm guessing the leak revealed that much. And I'm guessing after the leak, is when sony decided to start talking to disney again like I suggested in this post?

They're crazy. IDK man, I just don't see the other options working, even a second reboot.

see, WE the people realize this, but is more important that THEY do.

and for the record, if the deal happens, isn't the most likely scenario a second reboot anyway?

I guess not considering the studio spent over $400M by the time the movie was released.

I meant post production of the walkman but... holy moley, they spent almost half a billion on promotion of asm2?

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

also, since the leak revealed old emails, i'm guessing early on, that disney wanted spiderman to have a much bigger role in cap3 if they made the deal, but since talks broke down they basically replaced his character with black panther.

and now that they're talking again and disney is still interested in incorporating spidey in the mcu, it will still be starting with cap3, only in a cameo/really small role instead.

yeah?

 

[Spider2099]

they spent almost half a billion on promotion of asm2?

The combination of production and marketing budgets add up to about $400M, probably a little more.

also, since the leak revealed old emails, i'm guessing early on, that disney wanted spiderman to have a much bigger role in cap3 if they made the deal, but since talks broke down they basically replaced his character with black panther.

and now that they're talking again and disney is still interested in incorporating spidey in the mcu, it will still be starting with cap3, only in a cameo/really small role instead.

yeah?

I think they originally wanted Spider-Man to be a major part of Civil War, but that never went through. Now the talks, from what we can tell from the e-mails, are more focused on getting Spidey to be in Avengers: Infinity War Part 1 & 2. And there would be a solo Spider-Man film in 2017 or so before that as a collaborative effort.

 

[degraves93]

also, since the leak revealed old emails, i'm guessing early on, that disney wanted spiderman to have a much bigger role in cap3 if they made the deal, but since talks broke down they basically replaced his character with black panther.

and now that they're talking again and disney is still interested in incorporating spidey in the mcu, it will still be starting with cap3, only in a cameo/really small role instead.

yeah?

I think a Spider-Man cameo at the end of CW is a possibility, but we don't know that yet.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

The combination of production and marketing budgets add up to about $400M, probably a little more.

well, damn. I know they made a few hundred million in profit, but nowhere near the amount they wanted to.

I think they originally wanted Spider-Man to be a major part of Civil War, but that never went through. Now the talks, from what we can tell from the e-mails, are more focused on getting Spidey to be in Avengers: Infinity War Part 1 & 2. And there would be a solo Spider-Man film in 2017 or so before that as a collaborative effort.

right, they originally wanted him to be in civil war, but then the talks broke down. and then the leak happened. so i'm asking did that initiate sony and disney into talking again (maybe sony japan also gave a necessary push), and did the talks turn into disney saying they want spiderman's debut in the mcu to be in cap 3 from a major role, reduced/rewritten into a cameo/small role?

I thought that was what the rumors were pointing to.

I think a Spider-Man cameo at the end of CW is a possibility, but we don't know that yet.

just like I said to spider2099, I thought that's what the rumors were saying; if they make the deal, spidey will make marvel cinematic debut in cap 3 in some way shape or form.

 

[Eddie]

Sony absolutely did not make a few hundred million in profit from ASM2. Don't let anyone tell you it did. Leaked documents say it made $65,000,000 BEFORE overheads. That means it made less than that. TASM2 was not very financially successful for Sony at all.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Sony absolutely did not make a few hundred million in profit from ASM2. Don't let anyone tell you it did. Leaked documents say it made $65,000,000 BEFORE overheads. That means it made less than that. TASM2 was not very financially successful for Sony at all.

where are these leaked documents you speak of my good sir

 

[harryoscop]

where are these leaked documents you speak of my good sir

Sony took most of them down.

But Eddie is right, TASM2 was a huge disappointment for Sony. why do you think they're thinking about making such drastic changes? rebooting the series with Marvel, rebooting the series themselves (again). again these are drastic changes! lol.

 

[Eddie]

where are these leaked documents you speak of my good sir

The best answer at this point is "out there" on that one. Many sites have stopped posting info from the leaks. While reporting on illegally obtained information is legal (there's precedent), there are questions on whether or not it's ethical. If you do some digging on CBM (which I can't link to on this site) you'll find articles referencing the various leaks. This includes the fact that ASM2 only made 65 million dollars before overheads.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Sony took most of them down.

But Eddie is right, TASM2 was a huge disappointment for Sony. why do you think they're thinking about making such drastic changes? rebooting the series with Marvel, rebooting the series themselves (again). again these are drastic changes! lol.

hey you! you're the guy who made the avengers 2 football trailer ratings thread that took all the *short lived* limelight away from mine

but yeah man I don't doubt tasm2 sucked for them, I don't doubt what eddie is saying but to think they earned less than $100 million is just staggering. but they can still be full of themselves - they do still make really bad decisions so it scares me that they will just tell themselves they will be fine continuing things on their own.

I just hope they come to their senses and realize they HAVE to make nice with disney.

The best answer at this point is "out there" on that one. Many sites have stopped posting info from the leaks. While reporting on illegally obtained information is legal (there's precedent), there are questions on whether or not it's ethical. If you do some digging on CBM (which I can't link to on this site) you'll find articles referencing the various leaks. This includes the fact that ASM2 only made 65 million dollars before overheads.

why can't cbm be linked? is shh feuding with them or something?

also what are overheads?

 

[Eddie]

Overheads cover a wide variety of things and can be rather confusing. Hollywood accounting is notoriously questionable, making it even more of a mess. Things that can fall into the "overhead" category include (but aren't limited to):

-general business expenses
-insurance
-utilities
-money guaranteed to cast or crew based on the gross

 

[Stormz96]

Overheads cover a wide variety of things and can be rather confusing. Hollywood accounting is notoriously questionable, making it even more of a mess. Things that can fall into the "overhead" category include (but aren't limited to):

-general business expenses
-insurance
-utilities
-money guaranteed to cast or crew based on the gross

Would it be common for overhead to add up to over 65 mil? I don't know much at all about it but if it exceeds that then sony lost money on the film

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Overheads cover a wide variety of things and can be rather confusing. Hollywood accounting is notoriously questionable, making it even more of a mess. Things that can fall into the "overhead" category include (but aren't limited to):

-general business expenses
-insurance
-utilities
-money guaranteed to cast or crew based on the gross

aren't all those just supposed to be included in the film's production budget?

[BLACKOUT]which in this case was a whopping 200 milli[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Eddie]

Again, overhead is tricky (and often questionable, because tax reasons). As for them being included in the production budget, though, not necessarily. Overhead usually refers to the more indirect expenses, like the utilities at the studio producing the film. When an actor gets a percentage of the gross you also can't account for that in the budget. Robert Downey Jr.'s fifty million dollar paycheck for The Avengers did not make up a quarter of the budget. That was payed out of the revenue the film brought in.

 

[Spider2099]

Would it be common for overhead to add up to over 65 mil? I don't know much at all about it but if it exceeds that then sony lost money on the film

I remember Tobey was offered like $20M to be in Spider-Man 4 and that was considered a pretty big deal (whether or not this was true). I doubt Andrew would get paid nearly that amount, same with Emma Stone. I wouldn't be surprised if Jamie Foxx cost a lot of money though.