The Flash What will this new world look like? (spoilers inside)

[Kyle]

I tried to make as general a subject heading as possible, that new world being: the ramifications of the Flashpoint paradox.

There will be Flashpoint spoilers in this. Generally, what do you think will change?

There's only one thing that I'd bet a lot of money on right now - Caitlyn is Killer Frost and if possible her enemy is Ronnie a.k.a. Fire Storm. They may have been romantically linked in the show, but in the comics they were enemies. It plays out with making things go to hell plus turning friends and lovers against one another (Wonder Woman killed Steve Trevor, for instance). I don't think Cisco will know who Barry is, which is going to be really hard emotionally on Barry (imagine going to a terrible world and your friends don't even know who you are anymore).

If this does/hopefully effect other shows, what I would love to see...

Oliver Queen/Green Arrow fugitive wanted on murder charges, he's a lot more homicidal. The Green Arrow killing people starting in season 1 never went away, it just got worse and a heck of a lot darker. Bordering on being the Punisher. If you commit a heinous crime, you're going to DIE.

What if Tommy was the real Merlin? What would that have done to the show and all of the stories that came after Tommy's death.

What if it was Laurel who became the Black Canary first and Sarah was just a regular girl or flat out died years ago (which would really help due to Legends of Tomorrow).

For Supergirl, I'd say Kara's father is still alive. Martian Manhunter landed and was able to get away, he became a detective. Hank Henshaw is on the hunt for a new alien who appeared because he doesn't think it can be trusted and should be eradicated.

On Legends of Tomorrow they should explore a lot of different alternatives. Seeing a narcissistic Ray Palmer who would create a disutopia with his robots would be interesting.

 

[Web-Head]

Thinking about it will make my head hurt, so I'll just wait to see.

 

[Marvel Knight]

It wouldn't affect Supergirl.

That's on another Earth.


That being said, I'm thinking the effects of the paradox will be resolved in the Flash premiere.


Otherwise CW's Arrow would be affected, and the Olicity shippers wouldn't be cool with that.

 

[Kyle]

IThat being said, I'm thinking the effects of the paradox will be resolved in the Flash premiere.

I doubt it would be resolved that quickly because they've built up to this exact moment for two years now. I don't think they would spend two years building up to this then just speed through the story in one episode.

I'm catching up on Arrow and realizing that it had a rather recent episode that was very Tommy heavy. With what I stated above, I'm wondering if this might have been very, very intentional now.

 

[Marvel Knight]

Collin Donnell (Tommy) is a lead on Chicago Med now;
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4655480/

And Arrow's audience would be too lost if the entire series shifted like that. The show is a tumblr fanfiction shipper soap now.


Whatever they do on Flash will likely be contained to Flash and be resolved quite fast.

I think the big thing to come out of the Flashpoint episode is that Eobard (played by Tom Cavanugh) will be back. That's how they'll keep Tom on the cast.

 

[Kyle]

I didn't say those things would for sure happen. The verdict is still out if Berlanti will have the guts to take this all the way.

If this was out of nowhere, then yeah it would be resolved fast. But they didn't do this to keep Tom on the cast at all. They've been planning this whole arc since since the Season 1 finale:

That added with us seeing Season 3 Flash already, shaking his head "no" to Season 1 Flash about saving his Mom.

Thus going Flashpoint and doing this arc was always planned from a plot perspective first and foremost, not a keeping a cast member one.

 

[Marvel Knight]

That wasn't Season 3 Flash that shook his head.

That was an older version of Flash who had a long history of fighting Eobard, Reverse Flash. Thawne mentioned it in S1.

And the photo you posted is of Flash from 2024 in a completely different incident.

 

[Kyle]

That wasn't Season 3 Flash that shook his head.

That was an older version of Flash who had a long history of fighting Eobard, Reverse Flash. Thawne mentioned it in S1.

And the photo you posted is of Flash from 2024 in a completely different incident.

So a Flash from really far into the future travelled back in time to stop Flashpoint from happening again? That's basically what you're saying. The only reason for Flash to be in that time is to prevent Flashpoint. Just curious, have you ever read Flashpoint?

 

[Loki882]

This is there excuse to do more Supergirl crossovers. Either her world somehow merges with the CW-verse one, or the barrier between universes gets much weaker at least.

 

[Kyle]

This is there excuse to do more Supergirl crossovers. Either her world somehow merges with the CW-verse one, or the barrier between universes gets much weaker at least.

Problem with that is Flash re-reverses time in the end of the arc so even if it brings Supergirl in that way, changing the timeline again would alter that impact seemingly...

 

[Loki882]

It's confusing I know. But these writers haven't given a crap about the rules/paradoxes of time-travel (either on this show or LOT) before, so why would they start now? If they want it to happen, then it will happen, because they want it to. Logic be damned.

 

[Kyle]

It's confusing I know. But these writers haven't given a crap about the rules/paradoxes of time-travel (either on this show or LOT) before, so why would they start now? If they want it to happen, then it will happen, because they want it to. Logic be damned.

No, I mean I don't think it will happen by way of paradox because Flash re-reverses time to set things back the way they were. I think it will have something to do with the Legends of Tomorrow and Timemasters to merge the two. Basically I think the merge will happen, just not tied into the paradox unless they have some ramifications remain (which is possible, just think there might be more because that means all shows would be impacted by Flashpoint in a way that would last).

 

[Marvel Knight]

So a Flash from really far into the future travelled back in time to stop Flashpoint from happening again? That's basically what you're saying. The only reason for Flash to be in that time is to prevent Flashpoint. Just curious, have you ever read Flashpoint?

Actually no. It's explained here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=we0GvO_JRVo


The Flash (White emblem) that asked Barry (Red Emblem) to stop wasn't the S3 Flash... but one from much further into the future who has been fighting Reverse Flash (Eobard) for a long time... and this was their last battle.

 

[Kyle]

This is a head scratcher. But, the Flash in that battle is and isn't the Flash of that fight who got Barry to safety and prevented Nora from being killed. That's the Flash whose mother wasn't killed - the Flash from the timeline where his mother was still alive. Theoretically, I don't think that Flash exists anymore because his life was drastically changed by the Reverse Flash.

Just... did you read Flashpoint? If not, read it. Basically what Wells is talking about there is almost exactly what happened in the comic. His enemy was a different Flash (an older Flash) whose life he did ruin and destroy (that Flash's mother was always alive - thus Reverse going back in time to kill her). The Flash who goes back in time to create Flashpoint, he is the Flash whose mother did die - and that is the same Flash who went back to prevent his days/weeks younger self to not go stop Nora's death.

It's really hard and convoluted to explain, but if you read it - that will make everything a lot simpler to understand. Because what Thawne says does make sense and he was fighting an older Flash (a Flash whose mother was always alive) and is precisely basically how it was in Flashpoint. When you are the time traveler yourself you still retain your memories, thus even though Mom Flash doesn't exist anymore (or something else happened to him) Wells still has memories of a Flash that wasn't this Barry Flash since this Barry Flash was created by the splintered timeline.

Maybe someone can explain this better than me lol... just, it's a lot easier to understand after reading Flashpoint.

ADDING TO ATTEMPT TO SIMPLIFY, THE SCENE HAD 3 FLASHES:

1) FLASH WHO FIGHTS REVERSE FLASH, HIS MOTHER DIDN'T DIE (FLASH'S MOM BEING ALIVE, THEN KILLED, THEN SAVED = DC UNIVERSE GOING APOCALYPTIC)
2) FLASH WHO GOES BACK TO SEE HIS MOM
3) FLASHPOINT PARADOX FLASH WHO GOES BACK IN TIME TO PREVENT FLASH FROM SAVING HIS MOM

Sounds more confusing than it is, but I swear - the comic makes it so much easier to understand.

 

[souNdwAve89]

My brain is fried.

 

[iambranded]

Its like we watched these seasons for nothing then.....
a roller coaster with no ending....great for some...but all the relationships that was built....OVER

 

[Kyle]

Its like we watched these seasons for nothing then.....
a roller coaster with no ending....great for some...but all the relationships that was built....OVER

Not at all. The timeline that Flash creates by saving his Mom is so horrific that he goes back to re-reverse it so the splintered timeline he created by saving his Mom never happened and the timeline we know from the show CONTINUES as the official timeline.

Think of it as 'It's A Wonderful Life' basically since it was a huge DC version of that or Back to the Future II. I'm unsure how much it will affect the other shows, but I am pretty sure Caitlyn will definitely be Killer Frost and Cisco will no longer be Barry's friend or know who he is (since a nightmare world basically is the result from Nora being alive, killed, then saved).

 

[Mysteryman]

I am not even going to try to figure it out.
It will be fun to watch it unfold on its own.

 

[Marvel Knight]

Snip

So here's an interesting question....



If there is a version of Barry/Flash (From the Original Timeline) who's mother was never killed... and that timeline went on to lead to a bright future where Eobard would be born centuries later, and Flash was a legend..



Why does Barry saving his mother now cause the timeline to go to complete crap and everything to go apocalyptic.


It shouldn't.... because we already saw an original timeline where Nora was never killed, and that went just fine...




I'm thinking they're going to pull more 'time remnant'/wraith nonsense on us to explain away why everything goes bad.


The explanation in Flashpoint Paradox was pretty silly honestly.. with the 'time ripples' nonsense.

 

[Kyle]

I have no idea. Personally I think it's because of the tug of war that was going on.

Mother lives, Reverse travels back to kill her, Flash travels back to save her.

That many changes for one period in time may have been too many things change and re-alterings at once. Like picture time as a piece of paper basically. You don't tear at it - it's fine. You have two people yanking it back and forth, chance are that piece of paper is going to rip. Or at least that's how I view it.

 

[EssayM]

I'm only passingly familiar with the Flashpoint comic (read: skimmed a Wikipedia summary), but if I'm correct, doesn't he change everything back to normal in the end?

Either way, this sounds like a cool turn of events for season 3, and I'm excited to see what kind of reversals they pull with the freedom of an alternate timeline.

 

[smallville fan]

I made a thread sometime last year about what a Flashpoint reality might look like.
http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=495131&highlight=

 

[Kyle]

I'm only passingly familiar with the Flashpoint comic (read: skimmed a Wikipedia summary), but if I'm correct, doesn't he change everything back to normal in the end?

Either way, this sounds like a cool turn of events for season 3, and I'm excited to see what kind of reversals they pull with the freedom of an alternate timeline.

Yeah, he changes everything back to normal in the end.

 

[Legendver2]

Not at all. The timeline that Flash creates by saving his Mom is so horrific that he goes back to re-reverse it so the splintered timeline he created by saving his Mom never happened and the timeline we know from the show CONTINUES as the official timeline.

Think of it as 'It's A Wonderful Life' basically since it was a huge DC version of that or Back to the Future II. I'm unsure how much it will affect the other shows, but I am pretty sure Caitlyn will definitely be Killer Frost and Cisco will no longer be Barry's friend or know who he is (since a nightmare world basically is the result from Nora being alive, killed, then saved).

Except this would be the perfect opportunity for the writers/producers to retcon stuff. If you remember from Flashpoint comics, the "restored" timeline wasn't even the same as the pre-Flashpoint timeline, it's the new "New 52" timeline. Assuming the restoration works the same as the comics, the new *official* timeline after will probably be a perfect way for them to merge the Supergirl timeline in here, as well as retcon things that fans didn't like in the CW-verse as a whole (i.e Laurel's death, Olicity, etc.)

So here's an interesting question....



If there is a version of Barry/Flash (From the Original Timeline) who's mother was never killed... and that timeline went on to lead to a bright future where Eobard would be born centuries later, and Flash was a legend..



Why does Barry saving his mother now cause the timeline to go to complete crap and everything to go apocalyptic.


It shouldn't.... because we already saw an original timeline where Nora was never killed, and that went just fine...




I'm thinking they're going to pull more 'time remnant'/wraith nonsense on us to explain away why everything goes bad.


The explanation in Flashpoint Paradox was pretty silly honestly.. with the 'time ripples' nonsense.

The whole point of Flashpoint was that nothing is ever going to be restored perfectly, as seen by their attempts at resoring the pre-Flashpoint timeline resulting in New 52 timeline. By "restoring" the FIRST timeline where Nora Allen is alive, it resulted in a new Nora-Allen-alive timeline that is different. To put it simply:

Pre-Flashpoint timeline =/= New 52 timeline (attempted restoration of Pre-Flaspoint timeline)

First Nora-Allen-alive timeline =/= Second Nora-Allen-alive Flashpoint timeline (Pseudo attempted restoration of First Nora-Allen-alive timeline)

Both attempts to restore the preceding "original" timelines resulted in a "restored" timeline that is different.

Head spinning yet?

I'm only passingly familiar with the Flashpoint comic (read: skimmed a Wikipedia summary), but if I'm correct, doesn't he change everything back to normal in the end?

Either way, this sounds like a cool turn of events for season 3, and I'm excited to see what kind of reversals they pull with the freedom of an alternate timeline.

It's the same....but different

 

[Kyle]

Ah, never knew that's how the New 52 started. I read it really late in the game, like years after it officially came out so I always read it as more of a contained story that was wrapped up. So, that's really interesting to find out that it did leave an impact.