The Flash What will this new world look like? (spoilers inside)

[Thome216]

But that's the paradox. Having actions he has now erased still have existing repercussions.

The effect that no longer has the apparent cause. The ripples in a pond from a stone that wasn't thrown.

To use their definition of the multiverse, all universes share the same space and time, but just vibrate at different rates. So they can't be seen, touched or in any way experienced - or altered - by any other.

So I think that what Barry does in E1 can't effect E2 unless there was a breach for the new timeline to propagate through. Both universes then continue on their merry ways without awareness of the other and as they have for millennia.

We'll have to see how they tackle it whenever we get back to Earth 2, but I think that's what it's going to be.

And I think the only person who would know it had happened, other than Barry if they decide to keep his memory intact, would be Cisco. I think he'll start having dreams about some people he's never seen before, and then maybe re-meets Barry and goes, 'wow, super déjà vu,' and with the resources of the fully functional Starlabs begins to unravel things.

 

[TheRedWraith]

But that's the paradox. Having actions he has now erased still have existing repercussions.

The effect that no longer has the apparent cause. The ripples in a pond from a stone that wasn't thrown.

To use their definition of the multiverse, all universes share the same space and time, but just vibrate at different rates. So they can't be seen, touched or in any way experienced - or altered - by any other.

So I think that what Barry does in E1 can't effect E2 unless there was a breach for the new timeline to propagate through. Both universes then continue on their merry ways without awareness of the other and as they have for millennia.

We'll have to see how they tackle it whenever we get back to Earth 2, but I think that's what it's going to be.

And I think the only person who would know it had happened, other than Barry if they decide to keep his memory intact, would be Cisco. I think he'll start having dreams about some people he's never seen before, and then maybe re-meets Barry and goes, 'wow, super déjà vu,' and with the resources of the fully functional Starlabs begins to unravel things.

It can if he has interacted in significant ways with that world, but of course some random world like Jay Garrick's earth 3 would remain unaffected but the very fact that he was very involved with earth 2 that means that universe would be effected.

 

[Thome216]

I can't wait to see how they tackle it! The premier can't get here soon enough.

 

[DigificWriter]

My hypothesis regarding Krypton and the "Supers" on Earth-1 is that Clark and Kara are on Earth, but are living completely normal lives, having not had occasion to reveal their powers.

 

[metaphysician]

Eh, I'd much rather prefer "they are both living on a Krypton that never exploded". "They haven't had cause to use their powers" is a rationalization that died *sometime* between Starling City getting hit by an earthquake machine and Monument Point getting hit by a nuke.

 

[Thome216]

Eh, I'd much rather prefer "they are both living on a Krypton that never exploded". "They haven't had cause to use their powers" is a rationalization that died *sometime* between Starling City getting hit by an earthquake machine and Monument Point getting hit by a nuke.

That could be a future cross-over. We know Krypton is aware of Earth, and if in the E1 universe Astra managed to win and gain control and keep Krypton from 'sploding, then E1 may have an alien problem coming.

And who better to handle super-powered aliens than a pair of super-powered aliens?!t:

 

[metaphysician]

That. . . has nothing to do with what I said. Especially since, if Krypton never exploded, why exactly would there be any Kryptonians on Earth, anyway?

The fundamental issue is that, if Superman and Supergirl have been on Earth-1 this whole time, then they are *spectacularly awful* heroes for having done absolutely nothing the dozen or so times that a city-destroying threat has popped up already.

 

[Legendver2]

It can if he has interacted in significant ways with that world, but of course some random world like Jay Garrick's earth 3 would remain unaffected but the very fact that he was very involved with earth 2 that means that universe would be effected.

So using that metric, that pretty much means Zoom is still alive and well...man Barry screwed everyone hard.

 

[DigificWriter]

That. . . has nothing to do with what I said. Especially since, if Krypton never exploded, why exactly would there be any Kryptonians on Earth, anyway?

The fundamental issue is that, if Superman and Supergirl have been on Earth-1 this whole time, then they are *spectacularly awful* heroes for having done absolutely nothing the dozen or so times that a city-destroying threat has popped up already.

The idea would be that they * aren't * heroes on Earth-1 though. Just because they have the powers they have doesn't mean they're obligated to use them.

If they never chose to become superheroes on E1, there would be no reason for them to get involved with crises like the Undertaking, Genesis, etc, especially if they're living hundreds of miles away from those incidents.

 

[Thome216]

So using that metric, that pretty much means Zoom is still alive and well...man Barry screwed everyone hard.

I don't think so. I thought that too at first, until I considered that Barry went back and changed history AFTER the breach had closed behind West, Jessie and Jay. Going back after that and saving his mother only changed the history on Earth 1.

Earth 2, beyond the 'wall' that separates the multiverse(s), continues on with the timeline created BEFORE Barry changed history on E1. So on Earth 2, Zoom is still gone since he died on Earth 1. Now yes, Barry going back in time erases that whole thing, but that's only on Earth 1!

A little confusing... But that's a paradox for you, basically erasing the Cause that created the Effect. With the new E1 timeline, Barry did not defeat Zoom. In fact, he may never face him at all!

But that doesn't change the previous timeline's effect on E2, that Zoom did leave there to go to Earth 1 and was defeated there.

Basically, as far as the old timeline on E2 is concerned, Zoom opened a breach to go to E1 and simply stepped into oblivion.

That's how I see it anyway. I don't know what Flashpoint says happens or what the creative minds behind the show will determine what the courses of history will be...

 

[Lilbaz]

I don't want to see barry powerless for 2 reasons.
1/ we'd have to see the dark matter explosion for a third time for barry to get his powers. Twice in 2 seasons is enough thank you.
2/ unless they clear it up quickly it will effect arrow and the other shows.

I'd prefer that he goes back and can't really see any difference. He thinks he's in the clear, just little things out of place. Wells being alive as well as his mum and dad (would have to explain how wells got the accelerator working early (barry goes to him before going back?). But things will build as the season goes on. Ending with him having another talk with the speed force. Hell could even go to the future and see massive problems and the reason the reverse flash wants to kill him. Create a massive moral choice for him. He has everything he wants but in the future it creates massive suffering somehow.

Dunno. People might pick holes but it was just a thought.

 

[metaphysician]

The idea would be that they * aren't * heroes on Earth-1 though. Just because they have the powers they have doesn't mean they're obligated to use them.

If they never chose to become superheroes on E1, there would be no reason for them to get involved with crises like the Undertaking, Genesis, etc, especially if they're living hundreds of miles away from those incidents.

That would kind of be even worse. Instead of just being terrible at heroism, they become living embodiments of the antithesis of what the characters are supposed to stand for. I can't see that being even close to acceptable, save as a "this timeline has gone way wrong, we need to fix it" thing. "Meh, the city that got destroyed isn't mine, why should I care" ceases to be a valid excuse when you have the powers of a living god.

 

[DrCosmic]

I don't want to see barry powerless for 2 reasons.
1/ we'd have to see the dark matter explosion for a third time for barry to get his powers. Twice in 2 seasons is enough thank you.
2/ unless they clear it up quickly it will effect arrow and the other shows.

I'd prefer that he goes back and can't really see any difference. He thinks he's in the clear, just little things out of place. Wells being alive as well as his mum and dad (would have to explain how wells got the accelerator working early (barry goes to him before going back?). But things will build as the season goes on. Ending with him having another talk with the speed force. Hell could even go to the future and see massive problems and the reason the reverse flash wants to kill him. Create a massive moral choice for him. He has everything he wants but in the future it creates massive suffering somehow.

Dunno. People might pick holes but it was just a thought.

It sounds really familiar. Have they done a plotline similar to this before?

I really don't think this will last more than an episode or two. If they go four eps with Flashpoint, I'll be more than shocked. They may try to split the difference and have him travel between Flashpoint Earth and Normal Earth 1, that'd be interesting to some degree, and would allow them to do their thing and also really explore Flashpoint.

The idea would be that they * aren't * heroes on Earth-1 though. Just because they have the powers they have doesn't mean they're obligated to use them.

If they never chose to become superheroes on E1, there would be no reason for them to get involved with crises like the Undertaking, Genesis, etc, especially if they're living hundreds of miles away from those incidents.

The problem with these characters is that they're built to be superheroes. If people are dying an hour from your house (they fly hundreds of miles an hour), and you are uniquely able to help save lives, and you don't, you're not just "not a hero" you're kind of a coward, and you kind have to turn off your empathy for other human beings and their pain. That's a pretty f'ed up version of Superman and Supergirl, I think.

 

[DigificWriter]

Having superpowers does not mean you're obligated to be a superhero. If Clark and Kara chose to live completely normal lives, that would be their prerogative. They don't suddenly lose their free will and agency simply because their alien physiology means that they can burn a hole in the world.

 

[Thome216]

I think it would depend on who their adoptive parents were and the intents of their birth parents. If Krypton is destroyed in the Earth 1 universe as it usually is, then the motives of Jor'El and Zor'El are not changed. Jor'El still intends for his son to do 'great things' in order to help Earth, and Kara is still sent along in order to watch over him.

If those are similar, then any change in their intents would come from their adoptive parents. In the Earth 1 universe, what if Clark never reached the Kents? What if it was another set of parents who found him, and did not let him use his powers? Or taught him to hide them so completely that he's like Kara from the first episode of Supergirl, and probably not using his powers at all.

And if that's the case, then who was going to meet Kara when she finally reached Earth as well? And then whose hands did she fall into without Superman to guide her to the Danvers family?

If however, Astra did beat her sister Alura and kept Krypton from exploding, would Kal'El and Kara have ever left? And if they did, does that mean that the intents of their parent's changed as well? Would Jor'El and Zor'El instead have sent their kids away to hide from Astra and her people.

We know Krypton is aware of the Earth as Jor'El sent Kal there specifically. And if they are aware of Earth, would they also be aware of a pair of Kryptonians flying around an alien world? It's possible that if Kal and Kara were sent away to hide from Astra, then they would be laying low and being simple, normal little humans for their own safety - with Kara now being the elder of the two since no explosion of Krypton means no shock wave to knock her ship off course.

A few simple changes to their histories, and their intents change significantly.