Civil War What you didn't like about Captain America: Civil War - Flaws/Critiques

[yllum]

To use them as a red herring and lure Cap/Stark to that Soviet bunker. At the end of the day, he could have shown them that video of Stark's parents being murdered almost anywhere. Alas the movie wanted them to brawl in a secluded location, so that's how they wrote it.

exactly pal, I could understand the red herring portion. But why would zemo wanted cap vs iron man at the sovient bunker? So as not to kill innocent? I don't think zemo cares about the innocent.

That is the only part of the movie I don't get along with why scott lang willingly becomes a criminal. The movie is otherwise perfect in my books

 

[TalismanRing]

A secluded area also keeps other Avengers or authorities from interfiling or stopping it, or IM and Cap themselves holding back because there are innocents that would be endangered.

 

[yllum]

A secluded area also keeps other Avengers or authorities from interfiling or stopping it, or IM and Cap themselves holding back because their are innocents that would be endangered.

That is a very valid point!

 

[divan]

While Zemo certainly didn't care how many were killed to further his plan, he probably wouldn't have liked for the "final brawl" to cause more collateral either, given that's exactly how his family died et all.

 

[DanielFM]

It may sound like nit-picking, but I hated how they gave the iconic Cap's "No, you move" speech to Peggy.

It was unnecessary. They didn't need it to make her cool. But they could have saved it to help define Steve's view of the world even further.

 

[Jaxon]

1. Vision - OP and cartoony.
2. Vision not under direct govt control as he's Ultron clone
3. Zemo's plot is nonsensical and needs all sorts of coincidences and things he doesn't even know about to work
4. Tonys reason for fighting Cap at the end is stupid. It's only the acting chops of RDJ that fools the viewer.
4. Airport fight made know sense why Cap and Bucky wasted time instead of just stealing the Quinjet a day earlier
5. Tony recruiting a 15 year old kid off a small video when he's a kid, and has 36 hrs only.
6. Spiderman having a new suit in 12 hrs
7. Cap and Bucky never talked to each other enough
8. No one dies in this series. Rhodey should have been killed and I wish Wanda had ripped the stone out of Vision's head because I can't stand him.
9. Iron Man was depowered so much in this movie.

 

[Chesterfield]

When someone can't differentiate between, "no" and "know" it makes it all the more easier to dismiss anything they have to say as grade A bollocks.

 

[Mjölnir]

When someone can't differentiate between, "no" and "know" it makes it all the more easier to dismiss anything they have to say as grade A bollocks.

I don't want to pick on someone's language as they might not be native speakers (just as I'm not), but he has shown himself to remember many things wrong and doesn't acknowledge when you point it out, he just keeps posting about something else, so he certainly doesn't come across as someone that's genuinely interested in discussing the movie.

 

[Seven Legion]

1. Vision - OP and cartoony.
2. Vision not under direct govt control as he's Ultron clone
3. Zemo's plot is nonsensical and needs all sorts of coincidences and things he doesn't even know about to work
4. Tonys reason for fighting Cap at the end is stupid. It's only the acting chops of RDJ that fools the viewer.
4. Airport fight made know sense why Cap and Bucky wasted time instead of just stealing the Quinjet a day earlier
5. Tony recruiting a 15 year old kid off a small video when he's a kid, and has 36 hrs only.
6. Spiderman having a new suit in 12 hrs
7. Cap and Bucky never talked to each other enough
8. No one dies in this series. Rhodey should have been killed and I wish Wanda had ripped the stone out of Vision's head because I can't stand him.
9. Iron Man was depowered so much in this movie.

My rebuttals below:

1. Vision is supposed to be OP. He has a freaking infinity gem in his head, how could he not be?
2. By ratifying the accords, Vision already subordinated himself to government control. Your point is thus moot.
3. Zemo explicitly stated that he studied the HYDRA/SHIELD files leaked by Natasha. Plus he was introduced as a veteran from the Sokovian military, so he could have had the expertise to execute whatever he did.
4. Look me in my eyes and tell me you won't try to murder the man who killed your parents.
5. Gee, I guess that makes more sense than having Lex unwittingly create an abomination with his blood But really, as a casual fan I can tolerate some compromises to the script. Heck it's sure eons better than the other movie.
6. Tony created his first Iron Man suit in a handful of hours. How hard would that be when he owns a damn technology company and has a supercomputer at his disposal? Heck, he even synthesised a new element in less than a day.
7. Some friendships are just mature like that. That movie, on the other hand. Plus their conversations can take place off-screen, stop nitpicking.
8. You not being able to stand Vision is not a legitimate reason to kill off a character barely one movie after he was introduced. High stakes don't warrant casualties. Rhodey having to live with his physical handicap for the rest of his life is, IMO, more painful than a cop-out death.
9. Dude, he was up against Captain America, a proven melee specialist. Plus that was a confined space with nary an inch for his suit to maneuver. Quit nitpicking.

 

[Drz]

People nitpicking at Zemo are pretty much the same people who nitpicked the Heath Ledger Joker.

Yes, both had a luck of planning that depended on little events working out for them, but both had the experience to truly execute it all.

Also Cap and Bucky did talk to each other, Tony's reasons for fightning Cap we're build up since Iron Man 3 and even this movie reminds the audience what happened to him in all of these movies.

I also don't get these "noone dies" why did someone bigger name need to die? Look how much Joss Whedon damaged the MCU by his murder fetish and getting rid of Quicksilver, just why?

Besides, 2 characters did die in this movie and set to motivate two heroes.

 

[Jaxon]

My rebuttals below:

1. Vision is supposed to be OP. He has a freaking infinity gem in his head, how could he not be?
2. By ratifying the accords, Vision already subordinated himself to government control. Your point is thus moot.
3. Zemo explicitly stated that he studied the HYDRA/SHIELD files leaked by Natasha. Plus he was introduced as a veteran from the Sokovian military, so he could have had the expertise to execute whatever he did.
4. Look me in my eyes and tell me you won't try to murder the man who killed your parents.
5. Gee, I guess that makes more sense than having Lex unwittingly create an abomination with his blood But really, as a casual fan I can tolerate some compromises to the script. Heck it's sure eons better than the other movie.
6. Tony created his first Iron Man suit in a handful of hours. How hard would that be when he owns a damn technology company and has a supercomputer at his disposal? Heck, he even synthesised a new element in less than a day.
7. Some friendships are just mature like that. That movie, on the other hand. Plus their conversations can take place off-screen, stop nitpicking.
8. You not being able to stand Vision is not a legitimate reason to kill off a character barely one movie after he was introduced. High stakes don't warrant casualties. Rhodey having to live with his physical handicap for the rest of his life is, IMO, more painful than a cop-out death.
9. Dude, he was up against Captain America, a proven melee specialist. Plus that was a confined space with nary an inch for his suit to maneuver. Quit nitpicking.

Doing this from my android so I won't answer everything.

They had the elements of a compelling story but messed up some key decisions.

Zemo should have been Hydra, the whole Cap arc always has had Hydra agitating but instead put him on a basic "you killed my family" revenge plot. Ant Man movie acknowledged that Hydra is still around.
Zemo, once in control of WS, should have used him to start killing Avengers. WS kills Rhodey violently and that sends Cap, Tony and WS into final conflict where anxiety is extreme and no forgiveness is possible. But you know, they don't go there with Feige.

 

[GuestStar2004]

The only thing id say about civil is that it was pretty much iron man 4, captain america 3 and avengers 3 under the name captain america and maybe that was a shame because in the end you got less of captain america and his story because there was so much going on with all the characters and when it came to sides i found it hard to not be on iron mans side since it felt like he got the biggest emotional beats in the movie while capt didn't have much of a conclusion to his trilogy apart from bucky.

i know probably not a big deal because of all the characters getting their moment to shine and that was indeed a cool factor i enjoyed but as a conclusion to the captain america movies it felt like they dropped the ball abit for the cool factor

 

[Drz]

Zemo should have been Hydra, the whole Cap arc always has had Hydra

Winter Soldier disappointed by having Redford and all people supporting security over freedom and making them the scapegoat Hydra.

Here, there isn't a scapegoat but we have real villlains for the first time.

 

[yllum]

The only thing id say about civil is that it was pretty much iron man 4, captain america 3 and avengers 3 under the name captain america and maybe that was a shame because in the end you got less of captain america and his story because there was so much going on with all the characters and when it came to sides i found it hard to not be on iron mans side since it felt like he got the biggest emotional beats in the movie while capt didn't have much of a conclusion to his trilogy apart from bucky.

i know probably not a big deal because of all the characters getting their moment to shine and that was indeed a cool factor i enjoyed but as a conclusion to the captain america movies it felt like they dropped the ball abit for the cool factor

I agreed! Yes we did get an awesome movie which I am very happy about. However this didn't feel like a cap am movie.

I have seen the movie thrice, I can safely say that rdj has very major screentime. He even has an amazing arc in this movie. This movie could be iron man 4.

As a fan*of Captain America comics, I wanted more Steve and bucky scenes in the movie. I wanted more exploration of their relationship. I'm pleased that at least bucky got major screentime too.

 

[Avid Avenger]

Doing this from my android so I won't answer everything.

They had the elements of a compelling story but messed up some key decisions.

Zemo should have been Hydra, the whole Cap arc always has had Hydra agitating but instead put him on a basic "you killed my family" revenge plot. Ant Man movie acknowledged that Hydra is still around.
Zemo, once in control of WS, should have used him to start killing Avengers. WS kills Rhodey violently and that sends Cap, Tony and WS into final conflict where anxiety is extreme and no forgiveness is possible. But you know, they don't go there with Feige.

Okay, I know it's technically "always" but two times is a stretch to say always. Once is obviously the first time, second time is a reuse, a THIRD time is a pattern. If Hydra had been the big threat in this movie and then a fourth did not include it, that would be the breaking of the "tradition." Cap is so much more than Hydra, and while I was surprised at Zemo not being Hydra, it was done damn well. Hydra, while factions still exist at this time, have been overused by now, in movies and Agents of SHIELD. The fact it's not present (at least in a huge way) is refreshing, especially in a Cap movie.
And by the looks of it, Bucky was killing people as he escaped, which would have included Black Widow and Iron Man if Black Panther wasn't there to prevent it.

 

[marshal99]

Zemo motivation and evil plot is weak. How exactly did a camera in 1991 be placed in the exact spot where bucky kill the starks ? It kind of stretches the credibility somewhat. Show the tape and get iron man to kill bucky and cap in rage while at it ?

 

[Avid Avenger]

I did think it was weird there was a camera right there, but read my reply above, it makes sense and he never said he wanted them dead, at least nobody specifically, he just wanted to destroy they friendship and the team, which he did.

 

[Loki882]

-Zemo's motivations were really weak/underwhelming, his plot was really predictable, and he just wasn't needed in this movie (you didn't really need a villain at all TBH, given the premise).

-The "twist" with WS was also extremely predictable. I've been calling it ever since I saw the last Cap film. Because apparently HYDRA cannot kill anyone without sending WS it seems. Was he their only assassin.

-I didn't like that it ended up being all about Bucky in the end, as opposed to an actual ideology. Makes things less interesting.

-Scott Lang willingly becoming a criminal again, just like that.

-Crossbones getting the von Strucker treatment. Stop wasting your cool villains Marvel.

-IM losing it. And to answer Seven Legion's question, NO! I wouldn't just try and murder the man who did that. Especially if it's in this context, when he wasn't himself or in control of his own actions.

 

[wampa1]

Sounds like this movie basically negates the whole point of Iron Man Three, what with Tony giving up building so many suits and making time for Pepper. AoU did that as well to a degree.

As Stan Lee said, comics are about the illusion of change.

AoU was a natural progression. In Iron Man 3, he gave up his suits and in AoU he wanted to build Ultron so that he'd never have to wear to suit again. In Civil War, he acknowledges that Ultron was his fault so wants to be kept in check to prevent him doing whatever he wanted when he wanted. It all works and nothing is 'negated.'

 

[Jaxon]

Zemo motivation and evil plot is weak. How exactly did a camera in 1991 be placed in the exact spot where bucky kill the starks ? It kind of stretches the credibility somewhat. Show the tape and get iron man to kill bucky and cap in rage while at it ?

Don't forget that Howard Stark and his wife just happen to be driving around in a car with 5 packs of super soldier serum or something. WTF is that all about?

Look, there's some shocking plot holes in this movie and all sorts of coincidences needed for Zemo's plan to work, a really stupid plan.

Zemo should have been Hydra, because the story was just the next Avengers movie because it is set-up of AoU (and don't forget the government doesn't do a thing about Ultron 2 running around)

Zemo should have used Bucky to kill Avengers - especially Rhodey to force the final conflict

There was not enough work on justifying Captain America's position as Tony's was very easy to agree on - join the UN, everyone thinks that makes sense and this makes Cap out to be a bit of a *****e.

Cap should have had direct conversation with Ross about Bucky being innocent, under Zemo's control, these other super soldiers, with Ross just ordering the Avengers to go bring Bucky in. That could have led to the team fracturing at the airport with Tony's trying to follow orders and Cap defying them, spontaneously, and fighting more on the spot then this stupid set-up that didn't make sense. But it was forced to include Spiderman. I've heard the Russos say they kept trying to balance the time between Cap and IM about their stance, but that was a big flaw when one side (Tony's) was so easy for the audience to align to and this was also meant to be a Cap movie.

They made some really stupid choices and the focus early and late on Strak's parents death made this far more of an Iron Man movie than it should have been.

I think once the initial excitement comes off this movie will drop like AoU did.

 

[Bren]

Steve and Sharon's kiss. Although Sam and Bucky's reaction was brilliant

 

[Nathan]

Steve and Sharon's kiss. Although Sam and Bucky's reaction was brilliant

Easily got the biggest laugh in my theater.

 

[yllum]

Just wanna confirm..so Sam was sitting on bucky lap in the small tiny car right?

 

[Drz]

-The "twist" with WS was also extremely predictable. I've been calling it ever since I saw the last Cap film. Because apparently HYDRA cannot kill anyone without sending WS it seems. Was he their only assassin.

How is it a twist since the last movie tells us this information already?

 

[samhiuy]

So, the Team Cap v Team Iron Man battle was floating around on facebook today so I had another look over it. I think the main problem is Hawkeye, he just feels so out of place due to not being introduced earlier in the movie. The battle is still a little all over the place in parts, but I think it's because there's no real bad guy in the fight so it becomes a little hard to distinguish who's on which team. When there are multiple good guys fighting one and other it becomes a bit tricky to remember the teams involved. That said though, I can already picture it in my head how Infinity War may look when they all unite.

No offense, but you're probably the only one with this complaint as of now. I don't know. I have read about complaints about Zemo, the score, the shaky cam, the jumping between locations, but the one that you have is very rare. It's quite easy to see who was fighting who, and who is on which team. Also, I'm not even sure what you're talking about is a complaint.

It was a messy fight in a good way. It was meant to be like that. I mean, what else do you expect? Everyone going into a 1v1 battle? Everyone have some kind of tag on their body saying what team they are? I'm not sure why it is a complaint to you. They are all separated for the most part anyway, and the only time people can't keep up is when ALL of them are fighting in one scene. The complaint definitely works from your perspective, but I wouldn't say it is shared by others.

By the way. It seems like there are some people here that haven't watched the movie. I highly suggest that you guys watch it first before coming here to complain based on what you have read online. Also, the airport battle was meant to be non-serious. Other than Black Panther (and Wanda...to a certain degree), no one else was actually aiming to kill anyone else. That is why Hawkeye pulled his punches. Why Vision didn't do much (he would have accidentally hurt someone *ahem* so he avoided fighting). When Scott turned into Giant-Man, there was actually plenty of chances for him to kill War Machine...but he didn't.

When people criticized that scene for having no stakes at all, I feel the need to question whether they actually understood what was happening at that time. The only time when things got serious was when Vision's beam hit Rhodes and sent him plummeting straight down AND THAT WAS AN ACCIDENT. If Sam wanted Rhodes to die, he wouldn't give a crap about trying to save him or apologizing. None of them wanted each other to die. The only one actively seeking to kill someone was BP - who was trying to kill Bucky no matter what. He didn't participate in any of the banter, and didn't give a crap about anyone else (when he told Hawkeye that he doesn't care who he is).

Seriously. I agree with everything else + the CGI was very noticeable. People said it wasn't going to be like that on the big screen, but it remained the same. Oh, but I liked Zemo though. He actually won the battle. But Crossbones is another thing. He totally died a fodder, though his actions pushed the Sokovia Accords forward. This is his debut as Crossbones, and *bam* he is dead.