What you didn't like about Captain America: TWS - Flaws/Critiques

Discussion in 'Captain America: The Winter Soldier' started by speno94, Mar 28, 2014.

  1. starwolf_oakley Registered

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    It seemed strange that Agent 13 was in the movie at all. As all the MCU movies so far have romantic interests for the leads (even The Avengers had Pepper Potts), I thought CA:TWS would be no different. But if we were supposed to see Agent 13 as a romantic interest for Cap, it certainly didn't play that way. Maybe she was *supposed* to be the love interest and they swapped her out for Black Widow.

    HYDRA's goals were very vague in this movie. Baron Von Strucker at least had a clearer goal at the end, wanting to use Loki's scepter and the Twins to conquer the world with SCIENCE!
     
  2. Silvermoon Made To Be Ruled

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    My take is that they had Sharon in this mainly as an introduction to her character so that when it comes to whatever Cap 3 has in store (where I imagine she'll have a bigger role - be more of an actual romantic interest) it's not like she came completely out of nowhere
     
  3. seishin87 Registered

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    I've defended the film but never did get around to voice what I guess you would say I didn't like about TWS or stuff I might have wanted different. And for the most part I love TWS, and none of this in any way ruins or spoils the film for me but...

    -The conclusion of the opening boat scene was a little underwhelming to me the first time I saw the film. For the most I didn't spoil anything in terms of how things were going to unfold. Maybe I'm just used to/spoiled by stuff like the Bond films and even The Avengers opening scene where it's an OTT explosive set piece. A part of me might have been expecting the ship to be blown up or at least a serious threat/attempt to do so. Was also waiting to see if they would factor the rocket into the action in someway but it was just window dressing for the scene, kinda like the helicarrier engines but more on that later. The conclusion itself was rather abrupt with Batroc setting off the grenade and escaping, next thing the film's in DC. Now all that said I feel that's just a nitpick and actually a part of me is happy that they went against my built in exceptions, usually films with an OTT opening action scene are a little front loaded in that department, case in point some of the Brosnan Bond films. That's certainly not the case here and overall I feel the action in the movie was very balanced. The opening as is is still pretty awesome overall, but no where near my favorite sequence of the film. I thought Batroc was well done though and the actual fight was good.

    - The whole bit with the USB flash drive in the vending machine. This one might be nitpicking on my part again cause after thinking about it I guess Widow probably saw/spied Steve planting the drive in the machine in the bit where it cuts away to Steve leaving before the reveal in the machine. The first couple times I watched it that part just felt a little contrived/clunky and although I guess I kinda explained it to my self it still feels a little too convenient. Again I feel like I'm nitpicking with that one. It's no where near as bad as some of the story issues with Silva's plot in Skyfall, and I liked Skyfall just feel like that film is a little overrated, Casino Royale is still my favorite Craig film.

    - Not really a flaw because it was probably a pacing issue or perhaps it was never filmed, but I wanted to see the infiltration into Fort Meade to get the Falcon wings. Maybe there's nothing more to it scripted or filmed but if there is it would nice to see as a possible deleted scene or maybe even a one shot at some point although there's way more interesting stories to tell with a one shot.

    - Parts of the ending helicarrier battle. I actually think this helicarrier scene is a little more balanced than the one in The Avengers with "ten minute freefall"(porbably hyperbole on my part but it seems/feels like it). The problem is it feels like some nice action may have been left on the cutting room floor for the sake of having the effect that things were happening in real time while still showing all the important stuff with Cap/Falcon, Winter Soldier, Widow/Fury/Pierce and Maria Hill. I guess at the end of the day it's hard to complain about story getting top priority over action but if it's a running time issue rather than pacing than that's something I don't like. I'd prefer if we'd get a film that runs 140-145 mins for the theatrical/final cut if it means we can have both (story/action). I'd rather see the good stuff on the big screen than have to watch it on home video as deleted scenes or an extended/director's cut i.e The Wolverine(which is why I may or may not go to see DoFP on the big screen just because).

    One thing I would change about the helicarrier action is the bit where Cap leaps off one carrier and is caught mid-air by Falcon. I'd expand a bit on the lead up to the leap and give Falcon a bit more to do and tie up one lingering action related question, what happened to the Quinjet chasing Falcon? In the film Cap is driven off the edge of the carrier by rocket fire from Hydra goons, instead I would keep the dodging rocket blasts but have him leaping across the deck only to be cornered and driven out onto one of the engines where they can't use the rockets but can still pursue. Meanwhile Falcon is busy being chased by the Quinjet from earlier and can't make it to Cap who's still on the edge of the engine, a couple Hydra goons make it onto the engine to get in closer firing range for their guns but one steps a little too close to the hazard markings and he's picked up off his feet pulled through the inlet vanes into the engine where he's fried/incinerated/vaporized by the repulsor jets. Meanwhile Falcon nears the engine that Cap's on with the quinjet still behind him, he flies under the carrier and almost like he's going to go straight through the repulsor blast but fakes out at the last second sending the quinjet behind him flying into the blast which knocks it out of the sky. With Falcon now in perfect position, Cap leaps off with the rest of the scene/continuing as is in the film. If I could add/change one thing in the film that would be it. I feel like it would have made things a bit more interesting, perhaps another little memorable action bit. Perhaps I should have taken Fury's comment that engines were redesigned by Stark as a hint as not to expect too much from them after what we saw in The Avengers, although they explode pretty spectacularly and at least we got quite a bit with the quinjet's anyway.

    Now I voted/picked the helicarrier battle as my favorite action sequence in that thread, probably because I loved the bit with Winter Soldier vs. The SHIELD ground crew(which doesn't even take place on a carrier). I wouldn't change/cut that scene for anything, although I find the propeller kill in TFA more satisfying probably cause it was an actual villain rather than a good guy getting diced more so than the blood and gore, but again I'm not complaining about that at all, in fact they better have another one in Cap3(hopefully a goon) or I'm gonna be disappointed lol. If they think it would be redundant than maybe a different kind of brutal/gory/bizarre death, i.e The rock crusher from Temple of doom, The tank in The last Crusade, or something like Benicio Del Toro's demise in Licence to Kill or Mr. Wink in Hellboy 2. That kinda stuff never gets old and it's just feels like a staple of all the best/most memorable action/adventure films, at least for me. It's the nostalgia. That kinda stuff stood out when I was kid and it kinda stuck with me when it comes to the genre.
     
    #878 seishin87, May 12, 2014
    Last edited: May 12, 2014
  4. BestGirl Reluctantly following Vought's orders

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    I forgot about the flash drive in the vending machine. How did Steve get that thing open without breaking it? Why would he put it in such a visible place anyway? He should've stuck it behind the vending machine.
     
  5. Silvermoon Made To Be Ruled

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    There was a vendor that was restocking the vending machine (he was knelt down on the ground, a cart of items next to him) when Steve was standing there. So the front door of the vending machine was open.
     
  6. BestGirl Reluctantly following Vought's orders

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    Okay, I totally forgot that part. Still not the best place to hide something so sensitive. :oldrazz:
     
  7. Whiskey Tango Registered

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    I had the same complaint but also did not notice the vendor guy.
     
  8. Bert Registered

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    Loved the movie, only scene I didn't like was Old Peggy scene oddly enough. I kinda wish they'd scrapped it
     
  9. Spider-Fan SHHFFL 2014/2019 Champion

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    Why didn't you like that scene? I thought it was easily one of the shining moments of the film! I nearly teared up during that scene.
     
  10. KRYPTON INC. Incorporated Kryptonian

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    For a film that so many seem to believe has something deep to say about politics in America, and some sort of "genre definer" I would have really preferred if they would have gone into detail as to how so many American citizens (and others, but c'mon... MCU SHIELD has been shown to be populated by a crap ton of Americans) would have gone along with HYDRA'S (incredibly vague and stupid) plans. What was the incentive? What attracted them all to HYDRA? It would have been better than the general, "We are taking over the world and destroying your freedom... JUST CAUSE!!" It's a giant flaw to me.
     
  11. Ms. Marvel Screwed up Avenger

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    Genre definer...? I don't think many are calling it that. Perhaps a few vocal fans but it's not the consensus or anything.
     
  12. TalismanRing Cyclone Cookie Tosser

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    HYDRA is one in a long line of fascist, totalitarian, and or non democratic regimes/organizations that individuals and populaces have placed their faith in and given their power over to. They promise peace and order and to many that is very attractive or at least comforting conceit. Nor does everyone who joins or turns a blind eye actually need to know all the details of the organization.

    Some like Fury and the Council were on board with many of their actions along a smaller scale. They are all for the Helli-carriers and their pre-emptive strikes - aka murder of suspected terrorists and threats. Their objectives aligned in some areas and they assisted HYDRA in their larger plans without even knowing they were doing so. This is why HYDRA was able to thrive within SHIELD and the gov't. They'd also been building and recruiting from within SHIELD for almost 70 years.

    It's a not exactly subtle allegory on Americans giving over power and civil liberties to their gov't in a trade off for more security. I think Zola and Pierce effectively explained how this happened without swallowing up the story in needlessly over detailed exposition.
     
    #887 TalismanRing, May 16, 2014
    Last edited: May 16, 2014
  13. Guts Smug

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    This was something that I liked about the movie. The fact that there was no romance subplot in the movie is something that makes it different from most of the other Comic book movies and it had a more original feeling to it.
     
  14. Jumpman Registered

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    It's okay because Nolan only did it once. MCU has done it twice now and probably a few more times later on in the MCU.
     
  15. Ms. Marvel Screwed up Avenger

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    The person who brought it up said that Marvel characters always survive if they are heroes. I can not name a "hero" in TDKT that died...at any point. (No Rachel isn't one).

    Also Nolan also faked Bruce's death so he didn't just do it "once". :whatever:
     
  16. ctsketch Registered

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    Ra'as al Gul
    Gordon
    Wayne


    all fake deaths...one per movie
     
  17. X-Gal123 Registered

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    I mostly loved the movie but there were a couple things that bothered the DC resident in me. The biggest is that the SHIELD headquarters is way to tall. DC buildings have height restrictions and I can't remember whether buildings are not allowed to be taller than the Washington Monument or the Capitol, but SHIELD was definitely taller than both, which is wrong and every time there was an exterior shot it reminded took me out of the movie because although the building style was like a lot of DC, the size was just wrong and didn't fit.

    Second DC complaint, there many Smithsonians, there is not just one. so while I know the question Black Widow asked, something like "Where's the Smithsonian I need to pick up a fossil" was a joke, it was still wrong. It was also a joke for the wrong reason, because it was about Cap being old, not the fact that there are 16 smithsonians.

    And relevant for the plot, but also another DC thing, is that all the police cars have their lights flashing all the time. There is a difference between the regular patrol flash and the siren racing to get to places flash, but there are always lights on. So when Fury saw the police car next to him, running, but without flashing lights, he should have know something was wrong or weird with the cars before they smashed into him and started shooting.

    I know these are minor nitpicky things, but on the whole I love the movie, these things just jumped out me. And I apologize if they were mentioned earlier, I make it few the first few pages on the thread and the last few to see if it was brought up, and I didn't see the DC-isms mentioned so I thought I'd bring them up myself.
     
  18. Whiskey Tango Registered

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    Wrong.
     
  19. blksuperman2 Deadly Akuma

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    I think the Triskelion is supposed to be in Arlington, VA. It looked like it was on the opposite side of the Potomac so the height restrictions that D.C. has isn't applicable. Kinda how the Pentagon isn't in D.C. but right outside it.
     
  20. Silvermoon Made To Be Ruled

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    Just to note on this, I believe it's GPS coordinates (if we ignore the typo where I think it says S instead of N) put it on Theodore Roosevelt Island. So it's more *in* the Potomac ;)
     
  21. blksuperman2 Deadly Akuma

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    Hmm. I think you're right Silvermoon.

    [​IMG]
     
  22. Human Torch Registered

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    I kinda wish we got more of the "culture shock" stuff.I think they pretty much stayed away from that stuff since they thought:
    A: It might play too broadly comical
    and
    B:Younger audiences would probably find it off putting.I.E. Despite looking like a guy in his 20's, he acts like my 80 y/o grandpa.For example I can't see Cap liking Nirvana,because despite being a young man,he still has the tastes of a man brought up in the 30's/40's.I think it would've been cool to have him voice how some things (like music or movies) haven't changed for the better in his opinion.
     
  23. MbJ Registered

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    There were a couple of times where I felt show, not tell would've been better. In particular I woud've liked them to show how Black Widow managed to sneak onto the military base to steal Falcon's exo-suit. I know it's just implied it'd be an easy task for her but I was surprised they completely blew past it and just showed him wearing the suit a few scenes later.

    I'd also have at least liked some foreshadowing or hint as to how she somehow managed to kidnap and replace the security council lady. Or even what she did with her once she took her clothes.
     
  24. Just_Human Registered

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    1. hiding a very important drive in a vending machine? really? it's a good think Widow grabbed it before a patient and male nurse bought some gum... but I'll let this one fly, because he had to act fast and had he gone to the bathroom it would have looked suspect

    2. so Pierce thought it would be a good idea to kill Cap by having dudes - who even though are trained, dont have any super strength- attacking him in an elevator? any person with half a brain knows who is going to leave the elevator in one piece.
    ust put a damn bomb in his apartment and be done with it

    But hey, this scene is amazing, so I will let this one fly too

    3. The scene where Winter Soldier attacks the 3 Amigos + Sitwell : Wilson had the easiest part; basically hides, wait for Winter Soldier to leave (going after Widow), waits for all his henchmen to go down after Steve, then attacks the only dude left upstairs from behind. LIRL ; true he had no gun or shield, but still ...

    4. When Rumlow and Co arrest the 3 amigos, there is a TV crew in helicopter; I'm assuming they would have followed the vans for live coverage; of course it didnt happen because otherwise HYDRA would have seen Hill and the 3 amigos leaving one of the vans

    5. DC still looked like a nice quiet city after the attack on Fury; no high security? people relaxing outside and sipping a drink? super realistic tbh

    6. When WS switches hand when fighting with his knife - you know the super cool move - you can tell it's Sebastian Stan's double - the same dude from the set pics .... kinda ruins the experience a little bit

    Still a 10/10; fantastic movie
     
    #899 Just_Human, Jul 2, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2014
  25. See Cap Run Registered

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    It was just such a great movie all around! Probably my only two dislikes would be:

    1) Natasha asking Steve who the woman in the picture at the bunker was: it seems to me like it should be obvious to her since Peggy helped found SHIELD and is in the Smithsonian. I do understand that they wantd to give Steve that nice moment after she asks him but I think they could have found a way to do so without making Natasha look ignorant

    2) No Hawkeye: at least he got mentioned in that scene with the SHIELD guards talking about him being in Afghanistan

    That's all I can think at the moment.
     
    #900 See Cap Run, Jul 3, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2014

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