whats so bad about MJ and the romance?

[Johnny-Oh]

I don't know if that was a typoo or I accidentally expressede wrong but she's isn't anything like a strong and independent woman on my view but the contrary,she's empty,don't bring anything interesting to the movies besides adding drama and tension,of course that's my opinion and I won't state it like a fact because i don't see it as my right.

Oh.just to make it clear if someone misunderstood me,a female character doesn't need to help a hero to make her interesting and again strong and independent.

Well expecting her to be a "strong woman" isn't completely fair considering that wasn't the point of the character in the first place(her insecurity/low self-esteem is the core and struggle of her character). HOWEVER she is independent, most of her actions in the trilogy she takes them for herself.

Gwen on the other hand is just there to help Peter in whatever he needs, she doesn't have an arc in any of TASM movies. The decisions she takes are direct consequences of Peter's actions which means she is NOT independent at all.

 

[sl500jazz]

Thank ya.

I deeply disagree with that but here isn't the place to talk about ASM movies but if you want to discuss we can go somewhere else to talk.

That's fine.

Agreed to disagree. The whole "sexist" debate is not something that I want to delve too deeply into.

Simply put, the character was written horribly.

I personally don't think Dunst was miscast at all; she was cast while hot and popular off the "Teen" movies Bring It On, Crazy/Beautiful, Dick, and Drop Dead Gorgeous, and just finished co-hosting one of the most popular MTV movie awards.
So casting was on point.

In terms of how she looked in the movies, first movie is where her wardrobe worked best; however once Dunst got her personal stylists as MJ's stylist for the movies, I felt it was downgraded. Her hair was fine in 1 and perfect in 3; 2 felt like she looked like the stereotypical ginger where the lack of soul ginger jokes come from.

Where they really failed with MJ though, was the writing.

In SM1, she overall started well enough, no big issues really. Just your basic love interest for the hero. Starts off with Flash, they break up, goes to Harry, flirts with Peter, and flirts with Spidey, Harry breaks up with her and then she goes for Peter. Kind of skanky, but she's supposed to be a high school senior with home problems, so there's only the way up to go with her.

IN SM2, ugh, she was such a shrew. Dates JJJ's son, gets fussy with Peter over a play, connects again with Peter, all of a sudden engaged to JJJ's son, tries to creepily reenact the upside down kiss, still tries to see Peter on the side, gets kidnapped, see's Peter is Spidey and then leaves JJJ's son at the altar. Sorry but that is all kinds of sloppy, skanky, hot mess. Being overly hot/cold to Peter, treating JJJ's son like he's nothing and trying to make him kiss like a past flame, and then ditches him for no good reason. She had more than enough time to call off the wedding and could even blame her kidnapping if need be; she's a needy skank here and totally goes downhill in

In SM3, she now knows Peter's situation. Ok cool, but then, feeling ignored and jealous, she starts seeing Harry on the side the same way she saw Peter on the side when she was girlfriend to Harry in SM1 and JJJ's son in SM2. And not just once, but throughout the entire movie, and Harry is not just some guy either, it's Peter's best friend ever, and he's also her ex from high school that wasn't that long ago at the time. And Harry makes her break up with him! I know MJ is not genius level or anything, but no offense, if Spider-Man is your boyfriend, you can tell him what's wrong and work together on how to fix it, not all of a sudden just do what your ex told you to do. And for her to get mad that Peter went on a date after she broke up with him, after all the build up of the first two movies, it's just you can't sympathize for that character when she knowingly caused all of it. Then all Spidey saves her once more and their closest friend, that's so at the heart of their trio dies, they just brush it off literally after his funeral and have their happy ending. I will say, the upside down Spider-Man kiss was an ******* move on Peter's part, but MJ did the same thing as well in SM2, so that's karma. However, that's still not a good reason for MJ to leave the restaurant simply because Gwen happened to be there as well.

I know MJ is a free spirit, and she's had her fun as a bachelorette, but when she fully decided to be with Peter, she was devoted. She didn't want to be tied down to anyone, but Peter ended up making her want to be.

Raimi's movies got the entire essence of Mary Jane horribly wrong, and that's why no one likes her or her supposed romance with Peter much.

Basically this. Despite certain similarities to the comics, they failed to capture the essence of the character, and the changes that were made, weren't for the better.

Anyway, If I'm not mistaken, Raimi has admitted before that with MJ he had intended to mix Peter's silver age love interests. IMO some of MJ's behavior in the Raimi trilogy is quite similar to 616 Betty Brant's and her situation with Ned Leeds, but ultimately Betty and Peter's relationship didn't last.

 

[Andrew Lucas]

You really seem to flip-flop a lot.

Once you get proven wrong on something, you seem to try to turn it into something we didn't understand and how we didn't get what you were implying. It would be understandable if it happened once, but it seems to happen a lot.

Proven? I already got convinced by Joker a lot of times recently so I don't see where that came from,I'm not afraid to realize mistakes like I did with exaggerating on MJ having no comic traits,I thought I had been saying from the start that she doesn't need to help Spidey to make her interesting, that's just a bonus.

I could say that the large post about MJ proved everything about how messed she is but I won't since it's a matter of opinion.

 

[Andrew Lucas]

Well expecting her to be a "strong woman" isn't completely fair considering that wasn't the point of the character in the first place(her insecurity/low self-esteem is the core and struggle of her character). HOWEVER she is independent, most of her actions in the trilogy she takes them for herself.

Gwen on the other hand is just there to help Peter in whatever he needs, she doesn't have an arc in any of TASM movies. The decisions she takes are direct consequences of Peter's actions which means she is NOT independent at all.

Ugh please stop bringing the "helping" Spidey point, I already that it doesn't make a woman strong before.

That's why she horrible written like people stated before,she adds nothing,something is always bothering her and she drops it on Peter creating another useless drama.

Really?Nothing at all? Only for Peter? So leaving him and moving to England doing what's better for her life doesn't mean anything?

"It's time to let this go"

 

[The Joker]

Proven? I already got convinced by Joker a lot of times recently

You did? Well aren't I the silver tongued devil lol.

 

[Andrew Lucas]

You did? Well aren't I the silver tongued devil lol.

@_@

Okay,it might not be something THAT crucial but I did

I'm ashamed.

 

[The Joker]

@_@

Okay,it might not be something THAT crucial but I did

I'm ashamed.

Why be ashamed if you were convinced by a well backed up opinion? I'm not sure which ones you're talking about, but I always do back up all of my opinions so there's no shame if you were convinced by some of them.

 

[Johnny-Oh]

Ugh please stop bringing the "helping" Spidey point, I already that it doesn't make a woman strong before.

That's why she horrible written like people stated before,she adds nothing,something is always bothering her and she drops it on Peter creating another useless drama.

Really?Nothing at all? Only for Peter? So leaving him and moving to England doing what's better for her life doesn't mean anything?

"It's time to let this go"

You ignored my point of MJ having arcs in the trilogy while Gwen didn't have any.

"So leaving him and moving to England doing what's better for her life doesn't mean anything?" So mean how she desperately keep calling him and visiting him?

 

[Andrew Lucas]

Why be ashamed if you were convinced by a well backed up opinion? I'm not sure which ones you're talking about, but I always do back up all of my opinions so there's no shame if you were convinced by some of them.

You're right kind sir (See?)


Could you reply to a quickly off topic question? Is Michael Keaton your favorite Batman actor? (Movies)

Sorry,it's just that I read an article about those actors and I know how a deep Batman fan you are,just got curious.

 

[Andrew Lucas]

You ignored my point of MJ having arcs in the trilogy while Gwen didn't have any.

"So leaving him and moving to England doing what's better for her life doesn't mean anything?" So mean how she desperately keep calling him and visiting him?

No I didn't.

Because she loves him and wanted to be with him?Like any normal love interest would? The difference is that she doesn't live for him like some others LIs did.

Honestly, Gwen from ASM isn't the topic subject, we can go somewhere else.

 

[The Joker]

You're right kind sir (See?)

I've done it again

Could you reply to a quickly off topic question? Is Michael Keaton your favorite Batman actor? (Movies)

Sorry,it's just that I read an article about those actors and I know how a deep Batman fan you are,just got curious.

No Bale is my personal favorite. Michael is second favorite. If we were counting voice actors, too, then Kevin Conroy would be top of the list for me.

 

[Andrew Lucas]

I've done it again



No Bale is my personal favorite. Michael is second favorite. If we were counting voice actors, too, then Kevin Conroy would be top of the list for me.

Honestly, I can't decide between Keaton and Bale,he definitely would.

Thanks for answering.

 

[henzINNIT]

MJ is a pretty well developed character with some distinctly human flaws. I find her to be pretty relatable, but she just wasn't much fun, and progressively less so as the films went on. I think some sharper dialogue could have made her more like her comic counterpart and spiced up her scenes.

The hate on the character, casting, and romance is over the top at this point. I kind of miss the days when a superhero's secret identity caused problems.

 

[Majik1387]

But knowing his secret identity didn't cause any problems that didn't already exist.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

Spoiler

Simply put, the character was written horribly.

I personally don't think Dunst was miscast at all; she was cast while hot and popular off the "Teen" movies Bring It On, Crazy/Beautiful, Dick, and Drop Dead Gorgeous, and just finished co-hosting one of the most popular MTV movie awards.
So casting was on point.

In terms of how she looked in the movies, first movie is where her wardrobe worked best; however once Dunst got her personal stylists as MJ's stylist for the movies, I felt it was downgraded. Her hair was fine in 1 and perfect in 3; 2 felt like she looked like the stereotypical ginger where the lack of soul ginger jokes come from.

Where they really failed with MJ though, was the writing.

In SM1, she overall started well enough, no big issues really. Just your basic love interest for the hero. Starts off with Flash, they break up, goes to Harry, flirts with Peter, and flirts with Spidey, Harry breaks up with her and then she goes for Peter. Kind of skanky, but she's supposed to be a high school senior with home problems, so there's only the way up to go with her.

IN SM2, ugh, she was such a shrew. Dates JJJ's son, gets fussy with Peter over a play, connects again with Peter, all of a sudden engaged to JJJ's son, tries to creepily reenact the upside down kiss, still tries to see Peter on the side, gets kidnapped, see's Peter is Spidey and then leaves JJJ's son at the altar. Sorry but that is all kinds of sloppy, skanky, hot mess. Being overly hot/cold to Peter, treating JJJ's son like he's nothing and trying to make him kiss like a past flame, and then ditches him for no good reason. She had more than enough time to call off the wedding and could even blame her kidnapping if need be; she's a needy skank here and totally goes downhill in

In SM3, she now knows Peter's situation. Ok cool, but then, feeling ignored and jealous, she starts seeing Harry on the side the same way she saw Peter on the side when she was girlfriend to Harry in SM1 and JJJ's son in SM2. And not just once, but throughout the entire movie, and Harry is not just some guy either, it's Peter's best friend ever, and he's also her ex from high school that wasn't that long ago at the time. And Harry makes her break up with him! I know MJ is not genius level or anything, but no offense, if Spider-Man is your boyfriend, you can tell him what's wrong and work together on how to fix it, not all of a sudden just do what your ex told you to do. And for her to get mad that Peter went on a date after she broke up with him, after all the build up of the first two movies, it's just you can't sympathize for that character when she knowingly caused all of it. Then all Spidey saves her once more and their closest friend, that's so at the heart of their trio dies, they just brush it off literally after his funeral and have their happy ending. I will say, the upside down Spider-Man kiss was an ******* move on Peter's part, but MJ did the same thing as well in SM2, so that's karma. However, that's still not a good reason for MJ to leave the restaurant simply because Gwen happened to be there as well.

I know MJ is a free spirit, and she's had her fun as a bachelorette, but when she fully decided to be with Peter, she was devoted. She didn't want to be tied down to anyone, but Peter ended up making her want to be.

Raimi's movies got the entire essence of Mary Jane horribly wrong, and that's why no one likes her or her supposed romance with Peter much.

Agreed on all of this. Well said.

 

[Spider-knight]

Come on guys. MJ in the films is just a flawed character. She mostly has a bad life and raimi wanted to put that everyday girl aspect to her otherwise people won't buy Peter dating a hot stuff but instead he just made Peter mostly shy and awkward. I know there a a few moments of confidence but he's mostly shy and awkward

 

[SymbioteSeb]

She's a tool.
She has NO personality, she just keeps getting kidnapped. She's a plot device who's just the typical damsel in distress who NEVER defends herself

 

[Spider-knight]

She does have a personality. She's not unique but she does seem human. She did try to defend herself from dock ock and venom

 

[SymbioteSeb]

She does have a personality. She's not unique but she does seem human. She did try to defend herself from dock ock and venom

Did it work?
NO!
She needs her boyfriend to do everything!!
That makes me hate her personality. She was written so badly I honestly wanted her to die in SM3
She's a walking stereotype
You defend that?

 

[Andrew Lucas]

Did it work?
NO!
She needs her boyfriend to do everything!!
That makes me hate her personality. She was written so badly I honestly wanted her to die in SM3
She's a walking stereotype
You defend that?

I get that

 

[Spider-Fan83]

for me, MJ is suppose to be the catch of a life time, an your suppose to kinda question how Peter lucked out (or at least the other characters would question it, not knowing who Peter really is)

but, in those movies, I often found myself thinking MJ doesn't deserved him, an wondering why he even keeps going back to her, or dwelling on her

 

[SymbioteSeb]

I get that

It's true though, I didn't care for her in SM3
At least Gwen defended herself and DID help herself. She even defended Peter.

Mary Jane in the Raimi films
*villian comes in*
"AGHH!!!!!!!!!"
*gets kidnapped*

 

[Andrew Lucas]

It's true though, I didn't care for her in SM3
At least Gwen defended herself and DID help herself. She even defended Peter.

Mary Jane in the Raimi films
*villian comes in*
"AGHH!!!!!!!!!"
*gets kidnapped*

You're too fun,Seb.

 

[SymbioteSeb]

You're too fun,Seb.

Doin my job

 

[SymbioteSeb]

Remember she hit Ock with a bar? He grabbed it and it didn't slow him down one bit
Spidey needed to keep getting his ass kicked save her
Excellent GF right? I wis I could have a relationship like that!
*Claps* Excellent job MJ!