The Amazing Spider-Man When and how should Gwen Stacy die?

[FigsNFilms]

I think the sequel could reach TDK levels of awesomeness. Again, I am probably just thinking too much lol.

Yeah, you're thinking WAY too hard on that one. haha

TDK was a perfect storm of ideas, plot lines, characters and subtext that made it so great.

With that said, that plot line would be CRAZY. And now I'm real interested to see where they take things.

 

[Jexx]

Nah, I think the sequel could def. reach TDK-level in my personal views on the movies.

As for the general audience? We'll see.

 

[Web face]

Yeah, you're thinking WAY too hard on that one. haha

TDK was a perfect storm of ideas, plot lines, characters and subtext that made it so great.

With that said, that plot line would be CRAZY. And now I'm real interested to see where they take things.

I am just hungry for the sequel. One thing I fear though, is if Uncle Ben's killer becomes a super villain down the line. Sure it can be done well, I really loved the episode of TSSM when we see Ben's killer, but I don't want to see another failed attempt to make the fight between Spidey and the Villain personal. I'll give Lizard a pass because he is more personal.

 

[spider-neil]

Webb should simply aim to make a good movie and improve on the things that worked and bin the things that didn't. He shouldnt aim to be better than (insert movie).

 

[FigsNFilms]

As for the general audience? We'll see.

Yea, that would be extremely doubtful.

I mean we are talking about the greatest and most compelling villain of that entire genre.

Coming off a hot reboot, which put the character in a new light ... throw in zeitgeist political / social subtext, comments on a post 9/11 world, amazing and practical action scenes, oscar caliber acting ... a premature death

And an amazing script that shattered genre limitations? Yea, it will take a great deal for ASM sequel to even sniff TDK status.

 

[Web face]

Webb should simply aim to make a good movie and improve on the things that worked and bin the things that didn't. He shouldnt aim to be better than (insert movie).

Yes of course, but as a fan I want a spidey movie that I can love as much as TDK.

 

[Jexx]

well.. if ASM2 has the death of Gwen Stacy..

it would have the bolded parts of this quote at the very least

Coming off a hot reboot, which put the character in a new light ... throw in zeitgeist political / social subtext, comments on a post 9/11 world, amazing and practical action scenes, oscar caliber acting ... a premature death

 

[PSYLENTGuardian]

I'm pretty sure he never actually promised he would stay away from Gwen. If I remember correctly, he didn't even shake his head or anything. Besides, I do not want to see Peter avoid Gwen for most of the second movie. I wanna see more of her in the sequel, not less. Also, I think the ending showed that Peter wasn't going to stay away from her.

I think the conflict in the next film that's introduced in this film could be that he thinks that he can protect Gwen and still be with her somehow. Peter knows that he still has to uphold his duties to use his powers to save people, but he'll reach the tipping point where he's too confident that he can everybody.

 

[spider-neil]

Yes of course, but as a fan I want a spidey movie that I can love as much as TDK.

I have that, it's called SM2.

For the record, the things I thought that worked (in ASM);
* practical swinging and stunts
* Spidey's wise cracks
* Spidey taking on low level crooks
* Chemistry between the leads
* Police antagonistic to Spidey
* High School
* The Shadowdy presence of Norman
* The Mystery of Pete's parents
* Hunting the killer of Uncle Ben

Things that need to be improved or dropped
* Fake looking CG
If you can't convincingly create a fully CG character then have a human character with tech; Shocker, Mysterio. Or have a villian that is human but has powers easily achieved in CG; Shocker

* Villian - I want to be more engaged when Pete is fighting the villian so flesh out the villian more, I don't mean an origin I mean his motivation, why is he doing what he is doing and why should the audience care.

For me 3/4 of ASM was freaking Brilliant but the movie was let down by the villian, they improve that they'll have something that blows SM2 out of the water (imho still the high water mark of the Spidey franchise).

 

[FigsNFilms]

well.. if ASM2 has the death of Gwen Stacy..

it would have the bolded parts of this quote at the very least

No, it would have it's own thing with the death of Gwen Stacy ...

But how on earth is Gwen Stacy's death allegory to the post 9/11 War on Terror? It's nothing similar. TDK is about a war of philosophies in a neo-noir type setting with stunning visuals.

But that subtext was relevant in 2008, the way fear was relevant in 2005 coming off George Bush Jr's re-election, the way class warefare, poverty in RISES is relevant to the state of America in 2012.

ASM's sequel would have to make strong comments on what is happening at that time in the world, or in America.

ASM was a decent film, but it hasn't been a "hot" film.

In 2005, word of mouth built tremendous momentum after an atrocious previous installment fo Batman Begins. I'm not seeing that yet with ASM.

And when I said "premature death" I didn't mean a character. I meant an actor. I meant Heath Ledger.

Which added a special zest to see the film, even if out of sheer morbid curiosity.

Anyone saying anything from ASM and it's potential would be close to TDK is overzealous and most likely a fan boy.

 

[spider-neil]

No, it would have it's own thing with the death of Gwen Stacy ...

But how on earth is Gwen Stacy's death allegory to the post 9/11 War on Terror? It's nothing similar. TDK is about a war of philosophies in a neo-noir type setting with stunning visuals.

But that subtext was relevant in 2008, the way fear was relevant in 2005 coming off George Bush Jr's re-election, the way class warefare, poverty in RISES is relevant to the state of America in 2012.

ASM's sequel would have to make strong comments on what is happening at that time in the world, or in America.

ASM was a decent film, but it hasn't been a "hot" film.

In 2005, word of mouth built tremendous momentum after an atrocious previous installment fo Batman Begins. I'm not seeing that yet with ASM.

And when I said "premature death" I didn't mean a character. I meant an actor. I meant Heath Ledger.

Which added a special zest to see the film, even if out of sheer morbid curiosity.

Anyone saying anything from ASM and it's potential would be close to TDK is overzealous and most likely a fan boy.

I enjoy TDK because I enjoyed Joker, subtext has almost nothing to do with that enjoyment. In fact I thought the whole 'big brother is watching you' subplot tedious and contrived.

Fox - 'yeah I know the Joker is killing people but spying on people is just mean'

*machine self destructs*

Fox - 'oh bruce, you scamp, you had me going there'



So let's get this right, to be better than TDK you have to 'BE' TDK?
Side Note: The cheat with Joker in the opening robbery, I've watched it really closely to see who the Joker is and his hair is brown, only when he takes off his mask and says 'makes you stranger' is his hair green.

 

[SpiderMarvelite]

by the hands of the green goblin of course.

 

[FigsNFilms]

I enjoy TDK because I enjoyed Joker, subtext has almost nothing to do with that enjoyment. In fact I thought the whole 'big brother is watching you' subplot tedious and contrived.

Great comic books comment on socities fears and anxieties.

 

[PSYLENTGuardian]

That they do. As I'm sure we all know, Spider-Man is the regular dude on the street like everyone else. His story doesn't need to be allegorical to 9/11 specifically, though.

 

[The Shape]

Here's my opinion on how the sequels should go:

Firstly, it's flat-out WAY TOO SOON for the Green Goblin to be back on screen. Let's be real here. We're not talking about the same gap between Jack's Joker and Heath's.

Having said that, I think that TASM2 should have a different main villain throughout, someone with a vendetta against Spider-man or someone hired by Oscorp to hunt him (Kraven). Also, there should be at least one or two side villains that Spidey can take down in the first portion of the film while the main plot is thickening (Shocker, Electro, etc). The sequel should also build-up the relationship of Peter and Gwen, and we should see Peter start his Daily Bugle career (which would introduce new side characters to the series).

It's also important that next time, Norman Osborn is physically a character in the film. He should appear to be charismatic to others and the public, but we'd know that he was up to some shady business, maybe even pulling the strings of the main conflict that takes place for Spidey. The mystery of his parents should be expanded and possibly explained. And potentially, by the end of the film, we should KNOW that the Green Goblin has been born or that Norman has found a certain serum for himself...

TASM3: The Green Goblin appears and wreaks havoc, a villain Spidey has never seen the likes of before. He is either already aware of Peter's identity, or he deduces it and kidnaps Gwen (who worked for him). At the end of the first act, Gwen is killed and Spidey feels crazy guilty. He blames himself and struggles with the idea of continuing his life as Spider-man, but he is obviously forced to by the Goblin and soon realizes the good that he brings to NYC (or something like that). The GG-Spidey story must be EPIC.

And by the end of that film, Peter has met the new MJ and it looks likely that they'll have a relationship, ending the trilogy on a positive note.

 

[Web face]

^only problem I find with that is if they try to end the last film on a positive note like you said, it might seem awfully rushed and quick that Peter goes straight to MJ after Gwens death. It would be worse than ending the trilogy on a sad note in my opinion. They would have to kill Gwen in the second movie if they want the trilogy to end on a positive note.

 

[Jexx]

I think that the Green Goblin should be introduced in Act 2 of TASM2, and have him throw Gwen off the bridge in Act 3, but that he shouldn't be the main villain of the film.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I think that the Green Goblin should be introduced in Act 2 of TASM2, and have him throw Gwen off the bridge in Act 3, but that he shouldn't be the main villain of the film.

Having GG as a side villain never occurred to me.

It's an interesting idea.

You just need a primary villain who can complement the Gwen Stacy story arc without being a distraction to the tragedy.

Maybe Mysterio or Kraven can help push Parker beyond his breaking point.

I dunno it will be tricky to give GG less lime-light while doing the Death of Gwen Stacy story justice.

 

[Web face]

Having GG as a side villain never occurred to me.

It's an interesting idea.

You just need a primary villain who can complement the Gwen Stacy story arc without being a distraction to the tragedy.

Maybe Mysterio or Kraven can help push Parker beyond his breaking point.

I dunno it will be tricky to give GG less lime-light while doing the Death of Gwen Stacy story justice.

I think Mysterio would work better than Kraven. He could give Parker hallucinations and illusions of all the people he thinks he let down.

 

[Jexx]

Well, I'm not sure.

I just hope the way the execute this turns out really well.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I think Mysterio would work better than Kraven. He could give Parker hallucinations and illusions of all the people he thinks he let down.

The only mind-bending mega-blockbusters has been The Matrix and Inception.

So I'd hope a Mysterio heavy sequel would draw from those.

Maybe Gwen dies and Parker becomes obsessed with bringing Oscorp to justice to bury his pain. Mysterio tries to control Spider-man's mind with illusion with Oscorp pulling the strings behind the scenes. They don't want to martyr Spider-man so they try to put him in a perpetual dream state. He could be stuck in a dream world where Gwen's death was just a nightmare he had while sleeping. He has to break the illusion in order bring Mysterio's crime spree to an end but doing so means coming in grips with a dark reality, Gwen's really dead.

 

[Spuzz]

If Gwen dies in the second movie it could be the Empire Strikes Back of the Spider-man movies

Or the *cough* Dark Knight *cough* of the series rather.

 

[8wid]

Even if the Green Goblin does not appear as an actual villain in the movie he can still indirectly kill Gwen by having another villain kill her off like Kraven the Hunter or Scorpion. She should die in the second movie and then move on to the secretary at the Daily Bugle afterwards.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Or the *cough* Dark Knight *cough* of the series rather.

The death of Rachael was kind of weak. I'd hope Gwen's death would have much more impact.

 

[Jexx]

Spider-Man should be the one who kills Gwen, by trying to save her. That's how it is in the comics, that's how it should be here.