Where did DC/WB go wrong? - Part 1

[Ultimatehero]

That was a totally unrelate script that included, to my best memory, naval war games lol. Yeah, that one was pretty stupid.

We've seen something similar before that's classy and memorable - but not in SR in any way shape or form.

 

[Ultimatehero]

I'm actually unsure if you can go that route in many of these. After all, you are telling an origin story. For example, Green Lantern being completely in outer space - I'd see that more as the sequel. With Wonder Woman, how can you have it be completely Greek mythology like Clash of the Titans for example? She's located in Gateway City. I'd say this script in just outline was a lot like another MARVEL film. So yes, in part it was very Greek Mythology in modern day. The other scripts, as said, didn't even delve into that. I consider that the more comic-book approach.

It's as MARVEL said at the end of the day these are all superhero films. But what genre do they fit in more? Same approach here.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

OH OH OH!

Completely unrelated, but considering you mentioned Green Lantern, I'm one of the few that wants a sequel (simply because Strong as Sinestro has too much potential), what are the chances of a sequel?

 

[HighFivingMF]

I don't have any specific questions, I just haven't met many who have so I'm really just looking for a yes or no. But anyway, do you more than the average internet person does about the abandoned David Goyer/Ryan Reynolds Flash movie?

 

[Ultimatehero]

As in every company it's divided. I have no idea about 'Green Lantern' nor do the people I know know anything about 'Green Lantern.' Okay, you've got a company. A studio that puts out all of these films and within that studio you have all of these smaller sub-companies that have a deal with said studio. They're all divided but they're also all under the same banner. There may be talks but a lot of it no one knows.

 

[MadVillainy]

I'm actually unsure if you can go that route in many of these. After all, you are telling an origin story. For example, Green Lantern being completely in outer space - I'd see that more as the sequel. With Wonder Woman, how can you have it be completely Greek mythology like Clash of the Titans for example? She's located in Gateway City. I'd say this script in just outline was a lot like another MARVEL film. So yes, in part it was very Greek Mythology in modern day. The other scripts, as said, didn't even delve into that. I consider that the more comic-book approach.

It's as MARVEL said at the end of the day these are all superhero films. But what genre do they fit in more? Same approach here.

oh I never think that GL should be 100% in space. Where does that leave Carol, Hal's(Kyle's or John's) family and human life. But I still think they couldve made it more like a cop movie. A space cop movie

With WW, no it cant be a straight Greek mythology movie like Clash, but their are still elements of the political side of WW

EDIT: Speaking of "space cop movie" I'd love for a GL film one day to be kinda like Serpico with Hal taking Serpico's place

 

[DoomsdayApex]

As in every company it's divided. I have no idea about 'Green Lantern' nor do the people I know know anything about 'Green Lantern.' Okay, you've got a company. A studio that puts out all of these films and within that studio you have all of these smaller sub-companies that have a deal with said studio. They're all divided but they're also all under the same banner. There may be talks but a lot of it no one knows.

Yeah, I figured after the box office results we'd probably see a divided company on deciding Green Lantern's fate.

It's a shame. Green Lantern should have been WB's Avengers (in a sense) but the script changes killed the film, in my opinion.

Five minutes in space does not make Green Lantern a Space-Opera and New Orleans makes an uninspiring Coast City.

 

[Ultimatehero]

oh I never think that GL should be 100% in space. Where does that leave Carol, Hal's(Kyle's or John's) family and human life. But I still think they couldve made it more like a cop movie. A space cop movie

With WW, no it cant be a straight Greek mythology movie like Clash, but their are still elements of the political side of WW

Yeah, definitely, but to me I still see that as remaining comic book. By the Batman route I didn't mean how that film some people think is outside the comic world, it's very much in it. But how dark and gritty it is. How realistic. As said - going as far as to not show Amazon City in one script.

Further breakdown, might help:

Batman is at Legacy.
Wonder Woman was at Silver.
Green Lantern is at De Line Pictures.
Unsure who has Flash.

None of these companies communicate with each other unless they just happen to talk to someone that works over there at lunch or something. It's all divided. That might be one of the main problems actually with DC being at WB. MARVEL it was just MARVEL and then Disney - one main branch (I might be wrong though of how MARVEL films work, I'm not at Disney) but that might be a part of it. Everyone's off doing their own thing at WB so you don't have that same combined atmosphere.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Wow, I really thought WB and DC were more united than that. I figured DC's line-up had the advantage over Marvel's because of the character's rights being sold to studios like Fox and Sony.

I guess WB is in a giant mess when approaching the superhero genre.

 

[Ultimatehero]

I guess WB is in a giant mess when approaching the superhero genre.

It definitely makes things more difficult. Unsure if we can get a movie like 'The Avengers' due to the complexities of that set-up. But then again I'm unsure if things are divided at Disney with MARVEL likewise or just one branch rather than many.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

At this point, I'm not expecting a JL/WF/Trinity film any time soon. Sad to say, I think I would die happy if I were to get (at least) a Green Lantern sequel (done right), and Flash and Wonder Woman adaptations.

To me, relaunching Batman is much too soon within the range of five years. A MoS sequel is understandable but WB should really start taking more risks.

 

[Ultimatehero]

As said, that's what it all comes down to. WB gets great scripts with a lot of potential. But the budget or, most likely, fantastical elements (since I think these scripts can be done at modest blockbuster budgets, excluding Kevin Smith's Superman) scare them off. Basically because they all seem to go in the same pattern. Man of Steel is probably hands-off mostly due to Nolan being behind it - he has his own office.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

As I said in the past, I just want a World's Finest Film. I want that so much more than a full-on JL movie.

 

[Ultimatehero]

That itself is or should be possible, but only as long as Batman & Superman remain in some way under Nolan or Legendary.

 

[The Morningstar]

I can't take credit for this idea because someone else mentioned it but, Green Lantern should have been like Training Day, in space. That would have been ridiculously awesome.

 

[Micromind]

Yeah, definitely, but to me I still see that as remaining comic book. By the Batman route I didn't mean how that film some people think is outside the comic world, it's very much in it. But how dark and gritty it is. How realistic. As said - going as far as to not show Amazon City in one script.

Further breakdown, might help:

Batman is at Legacy.
Wonder Woman was at Silver.
Green Lantern is at De Line Pictures.
Unsure who has Flash.

None of these companies communicate with each other unless they just happen to talk to someone that works over there at lunch or something. It's all divided. That might be one of the main problems actually with DC being at WB. MARVEL it was just MARVEL and then Disney - one main branch (I might be wrong though of how MARVEL films work, I'm not at Disney) but that might be a part of it. Everyone's off doing their own thing at WB so you don't have that same combined atmosphere.

I think that Wonder Woman's rights are no longer with Joel Silver, now WB has all the movie making rights. as reported by Nikki Finke.

http://www.deadline.com/2009/09/exclusive-warner-bros-jeff-robinov-restructures-dc-comics-diane-nelson-put-in-charge-of-dc-business-existing-dc-titles-pulled-from-producers/

Even when Silver had rights WB could make a JLA movie as they were going to make JL:Mortal which was going to be directed by George Millar.

Even now the rights to make a Superman and Batman movies are with WB, as far as I know Legendary Pictures are only co producers /co financiers not the owners of movie rights to Batman or Superman.

 

[Ultimatehero]

All of the above is correct (BB). And ok then, JLA is more possible now. Just, as said, those sub-companies are incommunicato with one another.

 

[metaphysician]

Wow, I've been saying that WB seemed to have internal issues, but I never thought it was *this* bad/complicated. . .

 

[Ultimatehero]

Only really where DC is concerned since the way it's divided within the system is confusing. Everything else is the same as every other studio in its divisions. Just, seemingly, most haven't thought about what's going on behind the scenes with all the sub company labels that appear on screen after the main studio label.

 

[MadVillainy]

I think they should try to get all the projects co financed at LEgendary

 

[Fudgie]

Wow, I've been saying that WB seemed to have internal issues, but I never thought it was *this* bad/complicated. . .

Me neither. It explains a lot.

 

[Docker2.0]

I don't know, they had him working on a Wonder Woman script forever, and apparently couldn't come to terms on how to approach the character for a movie

On a parallel note, from an interview http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=38239 here's Whedon's take on what makes Marvel's characters different from DC's and why they worked for launching an ensemble movie-
- "It's enormously difficult to take very disparate characters and make them work, and DC has a harder time of it than Marvel because their characters are from a bygone era where characters were bigger than we were," Whedon said. "They've amended that, but Marvel really cracked the code in terms of, 'Oh, they're just like us!' So a dose of that veracity that Marvel started with 'Iron Man', I think you need to use that as your base."

Is he right? Wrong?

Strangely enough, DC has one of the most not super but "human" characters in Batman. Is he from a bygone era? Or is the contemporary take on the character completely relevant for toady? I think the later.

What Whedon describes as Marvel having a "base" to build on in Iron-Man, DC had in the Dark Knight, they just refused to recognized it as their base, and saw it and the rest of their franchise as separate.

I think this was their biggest mistake.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if they called Whedon if the Avengers are a success and I couldn't blame them because of what he did with the Avengers. But honestly, I think they should do a World's Finest movie first before JL because that should be how they build up to it.

And as far as DC's characters being bigger than Marvel's.....I think he's right. DC tends to have their heroes to be more like gods than people with powers, which is why I laugh at Marvel vs DC fights because DC heroes are made actually to be stronger than Marvel's. If you ask anyone who's a cornier character out of Captain America(who's a boy scout)and Superman(who's also a boy scout)people will say Superman, even though they basically have the exact same principles. It's why he kind of looks like a bully going against Lex because Lex has no powers and is smart and Supes has every power imaginable. With Snyder producing MOS, there's no question it will do well but I honestly don't know how well it's going to do at the box office due to them using Zod yet again and the history of Superman. I want it to do well because if it doesn't, then you can say goodbye to everything DC with the exception of Batman making it to film. But if they have no plans to do a JL movie, which I believe they do but they are going about it the wrong way, I say do a World's Finest first. That's just my two cents.

 

[The Guard]

For example, they hired Kevin Smith then gave him all of these guidelines and things he had to use. Even with those restrictions, gotta admit, he gave them a really awesome script in my opinion. One that opened up the DC universe. At least they're trusting Nolan and Snyder completely with Superman it seems like.

For example, they hired Kevin Smith then gave him all of these guidelines and things he had to use. Even with those restrictions, gotta admit, he gave them a really awesome script in my opinion. One that opened up the DC universe. At least they're trusting Nolan and Snyder completely with Superman it seems like

You're referring to Smith's Superman Lives script, or a Green Lantern one?

The Jack Black 'Green Lantern' script? Yeah, gotta say - that script sucked. I've read it.

What's weird about the Jack Black/Jud Plato Green Lantern project is that it actually kind of works. It's fairly funny in places, and kind of hits all the right spots of Lantern lore, but it's not Jordan, or Rayner, or Gardner, or Stewart, or the deeper approach anyone wanted. But there is some good action and humor in that script, and I think it could have been pretty entertaining in a backward sort of way.

But, personally I enjoyed the Berlanti/Green/Guggenheim 'Green Lantern' script. I have no idea what happened but the re-write after that? Literally destroyed the film beyond recognition. I think because they wanted to make it darker and this was more fantastical. Hell, it even gave them a possible connection with Superman in the script. If they would have just done that??? They'd have the start of the MARVEL universe - no kidding - they would have nailed it.

I don't know that the use of Superman in that script/concept is really all that comparable to what Marvel did with SHIELD/Fury in IRON MAN. It was a glorified cameo moment.

I don't recall the GREEN LANTERN script being that much more fantastical than the finished product, just that there were more story/action elements. It's pretty obvious that the approach after the initial draft was not to make it darker and grittier, but rather to trim the runtime and the budget down from what it had been. The movie still had a very comic book feel to it. Too comic booky for some. If anything, it probably could have been a little darker and grittier.

One of the major issues with Green Lantern is that WB had really only seen dark and gritty succeed before it, and on some level, a production team wasn't put into place that was able to find a balance between serious and lighthearted and fun. It was their first attempt at such a film, and there were some missteps. THE FLASH will likely be the next one.

The idea that GREEN LANTERN should have taken place in space or mostly in space keeps coming up here, and is kind of silly. Beyond budget issues with that, there are character introduction concerns. He's Earth's Green Lantern. He is based on Earth, and his origins are on Earth. Earth should have been heavily featured.

I really want to believe Whedon's Wonder Woman concept was a great one, and that the script was very good, but I'll believe it when I see something more concrete about it. He himself has occassionally mentioned that he had issues with the concept.

 

[HighFivingMF]

The Kilowog stuff in the Smigel Lantern script was weird. Watching Superman Returns, saying it was hilarious. Becoming a couch potato.

The one genuine gigantic laugh I got from it was when Jud kept going on when Ganthet (I think, it may have just been a random Guardian) was trying to talk, so he just shouted "SHUT THE **** UP!"

 

[Ultimatehero]

There's no Green Arrow. Meant his 'Superman Lives.'

I'm not even really a Green Lantern fan and I don't know - it just rubbed me the wrong way - it was taking a beloved fan property and making it into a joke more or less. I wouldn't like it if that was done to one of my favorite heroes, so from that angle it just - as said - I didn't respond well to it. They could have done a spoof that didn't revolve solely around an actual character and color the way mass audiences view it.

What it did was establish that all the worlds are connected. You say glorified cameo. How is that different from Fury in Iron Man? Sure it was a build-up to 'The Avengers.' But mainly and most importantly it told the audience "these guys exist in the same universe." Which I don't think a lot of the G.A. is aware of. Comic fans, even in general, know but outside of that? I've heard one guy ask if Superman was going to be in 'The Avengers.'

I'd still say the GREEN LANTERN we got on screen was leagues darker than what we got on film. Or that might just be the way it was directed and all of the blue hues. It just seemed extremely odd in comparison to the image the first draft brings to mind.

Whedon's AVENGERS is a testament to Whedon's WONDER WOMAN, and so is his take on 'The X-Men.' Here's the thing, he's a writer lol. Writers... well, we never think anything we do is good. I have a script that I think is just mediocre. Yet a studio is interested (one of the top five). And I've heard from those who have read it that it's just as good as 'The Wizard of Oz' and 'The Neverending Story' & rivals Disney's 'Aladdin' and 'Hercules.' Do I believe these people? Only in that I keep hearing it lol. But, still, I can't really believe that it's that good. There's an old saying in Hollywood - a screenwriter is never finished, it's just taken away from them, and that's beyond true. It was a first draft and a kick ass one at that. And as a writer, there are always going to be things he'd want to work on and make better. That's just how writers are.