Where did DC/WB go wrong? - Part 1

[HighFivingMF]

But, fun fact: In the late '90s, Kevin Smith was approached to write and direct Green Lantern. But he thought he wasn't a good fit.

 

[Ultimatehero]

But, fun fact: In the late '90s, Kevin Smith was approached to write and direct Green Lantern. But he thought he wasn't a good fit.

Cool and yeah, unsure how that'd turn out...

And my prior post just realized that it was asking about his Green Lantern, not Green Arrow - got confused since I brought up his run on Green Arrow in the quoted section.

 

[The Guard]

There's no Green Arrow. Meant his 'Superman Lives.

Ah. Yeah, SUPERMAN LIVES (Kevin Smith's draft/s) is a fun read. It's okay. Kind of an average script in the grand scheme of things.

I'm not even really a Green Lantern fan and I don't know - it just rubbed me the wrong way - it was taking a beloved fan property and making it into a joke more or less. I wouldn't like it if that was done to one of my favorite heroes, so from that angle it just - as said - I didn't respond well to it. They could have done a spoof that didn't revolve solely around an actual character and color the way mass audiences view it.

That's what was kind of weird about it, as I recall. It almost wasn't a spoof. It was almost this straight approach to the mythology, except with a ridiculous character and lots of humor surrounding that character, and his odd obtaining of the ring, which as I recall turned out to be a plot by Sinestro to prevent Hal from becoming Green Lantern or something along those lines. It was like this weird, backward love letter to the overall concept, if not the mythos.

What it did was establish that all the worlds are connected. You say glorified cameo. How is that different from Fury in Iron Man? Sure it was a build-up to 'The Avengers.' But mainly and most importantly it told the audience "these guys exist in the same universe." Which I don't think a lot of the G.A. is aware of. Comic fans, even in general, know but outside of that? I've heard one guy ask if Superman was going to be in 'The Avengers.'

It was a nice cameo type moment, and certainly speaks to Hal's character, when the ring doesn't choose Superman in favor of him. But in the grand scheme of things, it's really not that significant, other than pointing out, that these two are in the same world. Which is simplicity to begin with. Its different than Fury's use in that Fury isn't just a cameo. He introduces a concept, that of a larger universe, and Iron Man's involvement in The Avengers Initiative. He and SHIELD have a very clear role, very defined role in IRON MAN. Just seeing Superman would just have been...Superman being there, or seeing Clark's desk in another version. Hardly on the same level of concept introduction. I'd say including Amanda Waller was a nice first step in developing a shared universe, and does more for that idea than even including Alan Scott would have (though I would have loved to have seen him in GL, and he could have been used that way as well). She's basically DC's currently accepted "Nick Fury". Ultimately, though, like I said, it's not that hard to point out that they exist in the same universe. They just haven't done it yet.

I'd still say the GREEN LANTERN we got on screen was leagues darker than what we got on film. Or that might just be the way it was directed and all of the blue hues. It just seemed extremely odd in comparison to the image the first draft brings to mind.

I assume you mean that the film was darker than the script. How so?

Here are my thoughts:
-In the script, Hal is a lot cockier, a bit more direct, and a bit more of an *******, than his film counterpart
-The script features some kind of sexual/stalking overtones with Hammond and his lab assistant.
-The script features Hammond torturing Broome and using him as a puppet, and Sinestro torturing Legion
-Hal visits Abin Sur's widow in the script, there's much more made of Sur's death.
-There are sadder elements to Alan Scott's use in the script.
-There are funeral flashbacks, an exploration of the losses Hal and Carol and Hal's mother have suffered in the script
-In the script, when Hal becomes Green Lantern, there's more real world conflict to resolve
-There are more overt government cover up elements to the script
-The revenge aspect between Hammond and his father is fleshed out more
-In the script, Hammond himself is a lot more dangerous. He's not just seeking power, he also seeks to destroy Coast City and kills people.

The rest of the serious or dark elements the film presents are always utilized by the script.

With the possible exception of Parallax being a bit scarier than Legion, and Hal's emotional/relationship concept/fears about Carol being a bit deeper and more serious in the movie, the script is just a lot darker, more serious, and more mature in general in its approach than the film, which, ironically, ends up being less generic than the script. It's an odd dynamic. There's a lot to like about both versions. Had they been able to combine both approaches, it wouldn't have been perfect, but it would have been something very special.

Whedon's AVENGERS is a testament to Whedon's WONDER WOMAN, and so is his take on 'The X-Men.' Here's the thing, he's a writer lol. Writers... well, we never think anything we do is good.

I don't really see how pointing to Whedon's work on the X-Men or THE AVENGERS proves anything about the quality of his existing WONDER WOMAN project. It certainly speaks to his potential if Avengers is well done, but we already knew he had potential. That's why he was hired to develop WONDER WOMAN.

 

[Ultimatehero]

Now to me SUPERMAN LIVES was boss - I mean, the funeral scene? Now THAT would have built the universe. Problem is, and why I didn't focus on it, I'm unsure if budget-wise it could be done. I mean, the action was literally a comic. That's what I loved about it.

Puppets as the guardians? As said, just the whole thing irked me for some reason.

For fans? Maybe. General audience? No. They have no idea who Amanda Waller is in the least. They do know who Superman is though. Also it wasn't really Nick Fury in Iron Man that caused excitement it was these lines - "you are not alone" - signaling that other superheroes will come into play. Once again, at that point Nick Fury wasn't known to the GA. Just for an instant distance yourself as a comic book fan and just try to see what this all means for someone who's never picked up a comic book before. For example you said Amanda Waller worked greater, but GA know nothing about her.

I don't know exactly. I mean you say those things, but I kept on picturing it with a much broader color pallette. Maybe because the world was much more expansive and detailed than what wound up in the film. Maybe that the action was just more epic and seemed like panels in a comic book. Just the sheer differences between the two. The first draft seemed to go in the right direction, it got me as a non-fan to become a fan, but what came out? Still making heads and tails of it.

And there's really going to be nothing to be able to prove it. I can't post it. Share details about it or anything. Other than to say if you love what he did in the past and AVENGERS, you'd love this.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

As an individual who has only appreciated two of Whedon's past projects, I can't honestly say I was excited to hear about him writing the treatment for Wonder Woman.

I disliked Buffy, Angel, Dollhouse and Firefly (just saw Cabin in the Woods, and I found it to be 'meh'). His style has never struck a cord with me sadly. I undoubtedly loved X-Men and Toy Story, but that's it thus far.

 

[Ultimatehero]

I will say it's classic Whedon. I will also say some elements from that script seemed to have transferred over to AVENGERS. I can't say what. But in the offchance that someone else who's read it is reading this - they'll probably pick up on what it is.... for those who this might confuse - not aliens nor Loki or Thor lol.

 

[CConn]

As an individual who has only appreciated two of Whedon's past projects, I can't honestly say I was excited to hear about him writing the treatment for Wonder Woman.

I disliked Buffy, Angel, Dollhouse and Firefly (just saw Cabin in the Woods, and I found it to be 'meh'). His style has never struck a cord with me sadly. I undoubtedly loved X-Men and Toy Story, but that's it thus far.

I hate Whedon too!!

High five!

 

[CConn]

As an individual who has only appreciated two of Whedon's past projects, I can't honestly say I was excited to hear about him writing the treatment for Wonder Woman.

I disliked Buffy, Angel, Dollhouse and Firefly (just saw Cabin in the Woods, and I found it to be 'meh'). His style has never struck a cord with me sadly. I undoubtedly loved X-Men and Toy Story, but that's it thus far.

I hate Whedon too!!

High five!

 

[The Morningstar]

I never got into Buffy or Angel and that because it's not my kind of thing. But it was clearly well made. Firefly and Serenity are awesome though. I doubt see how anyone can doubt his ability at characterisation and juggling multiple characters.

Cabin in the Woods sounds like the perfect movie for me. Something that simultaneously celebrates and pisses all over the horror genre.

 

[batman strikes]

I will say it's classic Whedon. I will also say some elements from that script seemed to have transferred over to AVENGERS. I can't say what. But in the offchance that someone else who's read it is reading this - they'll probably pick up on what it is.... for those who this might confuse - not aliens nor Loki or Thor lol.

I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say that some of the elements in his Wonder Woman treatment are used for Captian America in Avengers. Am I kind of in the ballpark.

 

[Ultimatehero]

One area, but there are many others. That's also actually wasn't what I was thinking of lol, but definitely the case there as well.

 

[The Morningstar]

I imagine Loki and Ares shared similarities?

 

[Ultimatehero]

Close, but not exactly.

 

[batman strikes]

One area, but there are many others. That's also actually wasn't what I was thinking of lol, but definitely the case there as well.

Interesting, Well I guess when I finally see The Avengers I might have a better idea. Is there a reason why WB is being so secretive about Joss Whedon Wonder Woman treatment? I don't imagine they will use any of the story details since they weren't to fond of them from the get go.

 

[HighFivingMF]

Interesting, Well I guess when I finally see The Avengers I might have a better idea. Is there a reason why WB is being so secretive about Joss Whedon Wonder Woman treatmen? I don't imagine they will use any of the story details since they weren't to fond of them from the get go.

They keep everything secret in case they want to use a part of it later. For example, the racetrack scene in Green Lantern was partially based on a scene from the Jack Black screenplay. Some designs from earlier, unproduced Superman movies are being used for Man of Steel. Sometimes things leak though.

 

[batman strikes]

They keep everything secret in case they want to use a part of it later. For example, the racetrack scene in Green Lantern was partially based on a scene from the Jack Black screenplay. Some designs from earlier, unproduced Superman movies are being used for Man of Steel. Sometimes things leak though.

Makes since. But I think they really missed the boat by not using his script.

 

[Ultimatehero]

That could explain. Don't know. As said, I'm just really unsure what I can and can not say thus really saying nothing about it. Kevin Smith's 'Superman' leaked - no trouble there. This script is just as much in the open if you know where to look and are connected, yet nothing.

 

[batman strikes]

His script leaked? It must be hidden deep in the corners of the internet or know one wants to talk about. That's strange considering Justice League Mortal had all its plot details revealed not to long ago. Although a script was never put out there to download.

 

[Ultimatehero]

No. It's not leaked that's the thing. Kevin Smith's script leaked. The Wonder Woman script, for clarification, is out there in the open for anyone in the industry who knows where to look if they are within close proximity to it.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Hey Ult, do you know anything about the MoS project? I've talked to two sources here about the film and they've been quite positive about 2013.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

I hate Whedon too!!

High five!

I don't like his writing style at all, but I will say this, he is an expert in dealing with team or ensemble films. I feel that The Avengers was the better fit for Joss than say... Wonder Woman.

I couldn't imagine a Wonder Woman film filled with one-liners. His style meshes far better with characters like Tony Stark/Iron Man or Wally West/Flash.

 

[Ultimatehero]

I really don't know anything. From a background acting gig it did look cool though and like a step up.

 

[Micromind]

I don't like his writing style at all, but I will say this, he is an expert in dealing with team or ensemble films. I feel that The Avengers was the better fit for Joss than say... Wonder Woman.

I couldn't imagine a Wonder Woman film filled with one-liners. His style meshes far better with characters like Tony Stark/Iron Man or Wally West/Flash.

I did not like Whedon's Buffy or Angel, but I liked Serenity, that movie showed his ability to direct ensemble cast.

He was a better fit for Avengers than Wonder Woman.

Still, if WB can get someone who can use good of the ideas from his script and write the rest of WW script, it would be a good start.

 

[The Morningstar]

I think Whedon is a big enough comic fan to adjust his style for Wonder Woman. He wouldn't have her busting out wise cracks that's for sure.

 

[jmc]

No. It's not leaked that's the thing. Kevin Smith's script leaked. The Wonder Woman script, for clarification, is out there in the open for anyone in the industry who knows where to look if they are within close proximity to it.

Is this Whedon's WW script? I thought he couldn't crack the character.