Which was worse?

Which was worse?

  • Organic Webbing

  • Goblin's Costume

Results are only viewable after voting.
Originally posted by Kurt Wagner
i know this is the wrong forum, I meant to post it in the spider-man forum, but I guess I was in this one and didnt realize it.
Click to expand...
Moving...
 
Wow, theres a lot to digest here, there have been some insightful and thoughtful contributions to the discussion and i'm impressed with the absence of diving into childish comments and the such. I'd like to add that i'm not happy about the organics but i'll live and can accept that this is an adaptation of a character that has been around for almost half a century. GG's costume wasn't even a cosyume. It was a military battle suit and although it served its purpose, some of us fans feel it was a huge let down.
At the end of the day what it comes down to is, that IF SPIDER-MAN 2 IS A HIT AND DOES JUST AS GOOD AS THE 1ST MOVIE OR BETTER, then all of those that complain fall into the category of their efforts to be heard in vein.
Take spider-man unlimited the animated series, that was an adaptation of spider-man but it floped why? because it sucked, people didn't like it and if anything that cartoon show has o be the worst adaptation of spider-man in history, far surpassing the organics and anything else. The fact is the 1st spider-man movie was widely recieved by an audience who do not follow the spidey comics and most enjoyed it. Believe it or not but the success of the movie wasn't due to all the die-hard fans but it was due to the casual movie goer and that is the truth. Its been said before, the movies are an adaptation of spider-man and the movies aren't being made just for the fans of the comics but for those who simply enjoy watching movies or those who aren't fans of the spidey comics but fans of the spidey films.
If spider-man 2 is successful enough to do just as well or better than the 1st, then all those still complaining about changes this and changes that are wasting their time, efforts and lose any credibility their arguments may hold. It will prove that the formula for the 1st movie worked and can be used and improved upon.
I'm not defending the decision for using organics because i think pete could have had mechs in the movie because at the end of the day we're dealing with fantasy here but what i am saying is that those who know nothing about the comics will find it easier and more flowing to digest the concept that the movie has introduced. If mechs were to be introduced in the movies that would be great but you have to remember this film isn't being made to soley accommodate fans of the comics but to those who dont read the comics too and like it or hate it everyone here is still going to go and see the movie anyway so it doesn't realy make a difference, as long as the comic-book blueprint is in the movies then its all good and thats what the spidey movies have done so far.
 
Well said Jide.

I like to think of the first movie as "The Dumbing Down of Spider-Man" for MASS consumption.

and since it did so well the powers that be could give a flying rat's ass whether some of us were disappointed in the organics, the Goblin suit and no Gwen.
 
I don't think that people should lose their credibility for simply maintaining their disdain and disapproval of the mistakes of the first movie. However, if they can't talk about anything else and insist on making it their life's work to preach to the choir (Spider-Man true believers) and try to pry open the eyes of the non-believers (the so-called "Man-Spider" fans... the ones who don't admit that it was wrong) with their rusty crowbar of truth, then they do lose their credibility, and they let their analtical skills deteriorate with no new flaws to dissect and complain about.

"Spider-Man Unlimited" may have been a flop, but it doesn't equal the failures of the first Spider-Man film (and I mean ALL the failures, not just the webs and green armor). The reason is, this movie is an adaptation of the original Spider-Man of Earth 616. That horrid cartoon was also, but it was clearly an alternate stoyline that took Spidey to places and characters far removed from the original story. It's not represented at the level a feature film is. I'm not sure how to explain this point, but I'm guessing you get my meaning. Terrible show, but easier to ignore.

I will never forgive or completely forget the makers of the Spider-Man movie for taking the easy way out and choosing James Cameron's web-shooter idea over finishing the assembly of the shooter mechanisms, but I absolutely do not support the idea of changing back to mechs at this point in time. I don't really care much about the ignorance of non-fans and their confusion over this change, but I think it should be avoided, and more importantly, the less attention given to Peter's freakish wrist mutations, the better. If they had used Cameron's screenplay, I'd actually go so far as to call it "Man-Spider" (although only once in a while as a derogatory comment, not every day in threads that don't lead anywhere), because they paid a lot of attention to it and how disgusting it was. As it is, I'm more interested in character protrayals and writing. When they get that right (and it will be Spider-Man 3 at the very earliest for this to happen, since the the "Smallville" writers did "Spider-Man 2"), then I may forget this transgression. Come on, you lazy, overpaid pig-*****ers... show me something good!

I vote that people stop reiterating why it was wrong to give Spider-Man orgnic web-shooters and make the Green Goblin look like a Power Rangers villain, at least as a primary focus of a thread, because all intelligent post-pubescent comic book fans already know for a fact that it was wrong and why it was wrong. The rest of you can go ***** yourselves. :)
In return, I ask that anyone with the urge to "explain" to us hardcore fans with higher standards than the average brain-dead MTV-indoctrinated teenager STIFLE that urge. You don't have a valid point, no matter how intelligently you state it. Laziness and carelessness with our favorite characters is not okay, and no true fan will ever think it's okay.
Let's all stop the madness and move on to pissing and moaning about newer and fresher failures on the part of the good folks at Sony and Marvel Studios. Comic books are supposed to stimulate creativity. It's not creative to harp on the same stale complaint for years, and it's not creative to defend non-creative people bastardizing a creative concept.

Rant and proposition over.
 
Herr logan... we agree on the fact that it will never be right.. but my only critisism is that u make it sound as if they didnt even take webshooters into concideration... when they did.. they really did.. many of us have seen the concept art.. the prototype and the test footage so they did think it over... but my only thing is they must have dug deeper for one reason and it wasnt lazyness.. im kinda still thinking its the web capsules... but i dont know.. thats somthing we will never know.. and with the prototypes.. etc.. we can see that they did try.. i think what we should be asking is why not.. what was the real reason?
 
They were having "problems" with the mechanical web-shooters. I read about this a long time ago. I say it's laziness because they could have gotten it right, but didn't. I'm supposed to believe the people who made a completely CGI Spider-Man who moves exactly the way comic book Spidey moves can't build a bracelet that looks like the billions of drawings of web-shooters we've seen? Bull****. To buy that lie is idiocy, and to defend their lack of respect is heresy. Okay, that was a nut-job word to use, but you see what I mean.
James Cameron wrote a horrible screenplay in which Peter turned into a mutant freak-baby with ejaculating wrists. When the hard-working and dedicated filmmakers were having "problems" with the web-bracelet props, they dropped the whole thing and used Cameron's insane, creepy idea as a cop-out escape.

The least they could have done is have him wear the bracelets when he has his gloves off and then they somehow magically don't make his wrists bulky when the gloves are on-- just like in the comics. It's a cheap visual trick no one buys, but it would have been faithful. Honestly, have you ever seen a drawing of Spidey with his classic costume and shooters where he doesn't have smooth wrists? For that, that I would make a big concession and suspend my disbelief, because as corny as it is, it's right off the page and it doesn't change his biology or take away his scientific genius. But he didn't even have detatchable gloves in the movie, did he? Friggin' things were attached.
 
i know how you feel but obviously it wasnt a design problem with the webshooters.. thats not the "problem" don't call them lazy when we don't know the full story. i still say the movies are the most accurate and best thing we have gotten to the comics thus far. So im happy... its alot better then waiting 10 more years for a spider-man movie to be made.
 
lazy. i'll tell you who was lazy. stan lee was lazy when he invented the webshooters. or maybe he realized that people could handle a person getting superstong, being able to stick to walls and having a spider-sense. But they obviously can't handle the thought of someone having a new organ caused by the same spider bite tho. Even tho his muscles would have to under go a similar transformation as well as his brain.

Someone asked earlier why they hadn't changed this in the comics if it was a bad idea in the first place. Well there's the reactions of people like you for one. there's also the fact that the horse already bolted from the barn and closing the gate just wouldn't work.

when i first read spider-man 2099 i thought wow this is the way those powers should have been done all along. The problem with spidy 2099 tho was Miguel is no Peter Parker.

stanlee maybe brilliant in ideas for powers and characters. but I doubt he researched at all how they should be implimented. It was acceptatable in comics at the time to just have some one invent something. Thus Peter Parker invented web fluid.
 
Originally posted by ph27home
lazy. i'll tell you who was lazy. stan lee was lazy when he invented the webshooters. or maybe he realized that people could handle a person getting superstong, being able to stick to walls and having a spider-sense. But they obviously can't handle the thought of someone having a new organ caused by the same spider bite tho. Even tho his muscles would have to under go a similar transformation as well as his brain.

Someone asked earlier why they hadn't changed this in the comics if it was a bad idea in the first place. Well there's the reactions of people like you for one. there's also the fact that the horse already bolted from the barn and closing the gate just wouldn't work.

when i first read spider-man 2099 i thought wow this is the way those powers should have been done all along. The problem with spidy 2099 tho was Miguel is no Peter Parker.

stanlee maybe brilliant in ideas for powers and characters. but I doubt he researched at all how they should be implimented. It was acceptatable in comics at the time to just have some one invent something. Thus Peter Parker invented web fluid.
Click to expand...

I never advocated closing the barn door after the first movie. I just don't want to have to think about or look at the horse that bolted out of the barn.

Spideyboy, you still insist on defending those careless people. I told you where the line was between a discriminating fan with standards and a proponent of mediocrity, and you chose to step over it just to keep provoking me. That's you taking the label on yourself, willfully. I already suggested that people like you stop that candy-ass devil's advocate crap, and that people like bakerboy stop the monotonous threads about things they've already discussed for two straight years, but you just keep defending people's indefensible mistakes. Your choice. You're the one who's going to live your life as a permissive advocate who tolerates unnecessary and unreasonable failure. I'll probably die a miserable, uptight malcontent. But I'll be right. :D
 
Herr Logan, im not standing up for them, im not labeling my self you are. im stating my opinion the same as you are. My opinion is what matters and it matters to me as much as yours does to you. you say im standing up for people and if you take it that way then fine. But quit acting like your god all mighty and what you say is right. Your acting like a toned down version of bakerboy. I at least aggree with half of what you say and listen to your opinion i just think theres more to it then what we know and we should not be bitter over somthing thats not gonna change anything. But from every post you have made you act as if your preaching to a coir. Im not saying your wrong, or bakerboy, all im saying is people should quit bickering. I belive theres a logical reason why the webshooters werent right.. and i see both sides on why they would or not work... lets face it people now are far more intelligent then they were in 1963, and times have changed maybe spider-man should change with the times too.. they still maintained who peter parker is.. hes still smart.. we just havent seen how smart yet. sure ill be dissapointed if things havent changed in spidey 2... there needs to be the jokes... the wisecracking.. the intellegence... If they wanted the peter parker of the 60's they would have set it in the 60's.
 
If I sound like a toned-down Bakerboy, it's because I'm at the end of my rope right now. Too much stress and anxiety. Thank goodness for Spring break. One more day...

I apologize if I sound extreme. I think even in a laid-back mindset I'd get real tired of this "theres a logical reason why the webshooters werent right" crap, real quick. Logical? Of course. That doesn't make it okay. How many times do I have to spell it out for you? This is the last time, if I have to amputate my own hands just to keep from responding to your meaningless, repetitive, wishy-washy posts: Advocating careless decision-making is wrong. It has real-world consequences in the long run. You are defending a way of thinking that is non-productive, harmful and that which demeans creativity in all of its forms. Go ahead and call this extremism and over-reaction. I've talked to hundreds of people like you, and worse than you, and it always leaves me feeling like the world is in the hands of people who don't care enough about getting it right. Not just Spider-Man and frivolous entertainment, but everything. You are part of a bigger trend; a trend that is dangerous. If you don't see the connection now, then just you wait until you have to make a decision that either affects others directly, or your own future is dependent on your ability and willingness to go the extra mile to satisfy customers/clients/fans/women/whatever. Just you wait. It's your integrity you're sacrificing by defending others' lack of it.

I'm going to go see the Spider-Man sequel. I'm going to see it, and I'm going to love parts of it and hate others. I'll probably walk out of the theater pleased as punch, with the good parts filling my head with glee. As time goes on, and with repeated viewings, I'll focus on more and more flaws in the movie, and they will matter more and more. This is how my analytical mind--one that likes things done correctly, and especially when there is every probability in the world for things to BE done correctly with enough drive to do it that way--works. I will love the watered-down, bastardized sequel of the watered-down, bastardized Spider-Man film, but when the euphoria wears off, I will be left with the whole picture. When something ignites my creativity enough so that I care about something, I care enough to want that something to be done right. I don't have the director's chair, so it's going to be done how studio ****es need it to be done, because they are full of fear and erroneous ideas about what the public wants. I'll buy their product, but I won't sit quietly while wishy-washy, cerebrally-lazy, pop-culture addicted sheep tell me I have to accept it as is. Either you are that sheep, or you're not. I told you where the line is. If you choose to cross it-- if you decide to be that sheep-- then you can have the last word, because this isn't worth anybody's time anymore.
 
Great posts everyone. I'm glad that everyone is staying away from the insults. And those that did start the insults have corrected their mistake. And now we are back to a great discussion.
 
herr logan, why is it you that draws these lines though.. as i have said be for why is it you that is acting like the spidey messiah. all im saying is the movies are the way they are so live with it. you can be angered or slightly bitter from it, but there will never be a movie that could equal the comics. nothing will justify all that we know in the comics. personally i think that the organics was creative, but am i happy with it, no. im just greatful we have an exellent spidey movie. With every comic book movie there will be thing we fans dont like, and you know what thats ok, because ive realised that when media comes to play, fans get half of what they want and the rest of the world get theres. The only way we will see a perfect spidey movie would be if it was a independant film, and they may get alot right.... but indy films lack the special FX, which the sony movies have done excellent with. Im not standing up for any one and ive said it a thousand times, I have no reason to stand up for any one except myself and thats all im doing is supporting my beliefs just as you are.


and still organics were nothing compared to the goblin suit.... it could have looked alot better.
 
the goblin should have at least looked like this concept art

FetchImageJPG.asp


it combines both the green and purple and looks much more darker and evil
 
I'm not going to respond to your continuued repitition of an empty point. You understand my point, and I understand yours. Nuff said.

On a more productive note, can someone please tell me why I can't see some of the pictures people post? Spideyboy, I can't see the concept art to which you are referring. Anyone know how to fix this? I have "Show image attachments and
 
wow herr logan not only did you completely ignor the arguement of my post. you reply as if the horse that bolted i refered to was the movie organics and not the comic invented webbing as i ment.

i guess when you ignor any good aguements it's no surprise you complain about weak arguements you see all the time from people with no standards.
 
Originally posted by ph27home
wow herr logan not only did you completely ignor the arguement of my post. you reply as if the horse that bolted i refered to was the movie organics and not the comic invented webbing as i ment.

I guess when you ignor any good aguements it's no surprise you complain about weak arguements you see all the time from people with no standards.
Click to expand...

I've been somewhat impaired lately, cognitively. I see that's leaked into my time-wasting activities, not just school. I apologize for misreading your post.
 
yeah herr... i can see uve been stressed... umm i mailed u the pic...
 
Thanks a lot, spideyboy. It's a creepy design that would have been much more effective.

Anyone know why I can't see all pictures and avatars, even though I have my options set to allow it?
 
yeah that was how he was going to look... but after making the first costume, they ran out of money. one can only hope that if they take the harry as the goblin look... they can make it look more like that at least.
 
My whole problem with the goblin costume was that it didn't even look like a military suit and yet they justified the changed for that purpose. Had it been a military suit, it would most likely be designed in pieces so that the soldier would be able to get in and out of the suit. A one piece suit would make it difficult in putting it one without another's assistance. Furthermore, there was no US Army logos on the suit.

So for me, this looked as silly as the original comic costume, but atleast with the original, the mask would look much cooler. Plus I once mentioned an idea for getting the original costume into the movie. It was somethign like the cotume had been a popular halloween costume and one day in the store, we see Norman having the conversation with the goblin costume with really is his other personality. From there we figure thats how the costume came about.
 
the real reason the goblin costume dissapoints is because its not even an origional failure. If the designers had tried something new I might gave respected that but instead they fused batman and alien to make a generic villian that neither engages or surprises. It stands as a reflection of the the lack of imagination behind the project and what lengths were taken to play it safe.
 
Originally posted by Kurt Wagner
My whole problem with the goblin costume was that it didn't even look like a military suit and yet they justified the changed for that purpose. Had it been a military suit, it would most likely be designed in pieces so that the soldier would be able to get in and out of the suit. A one piece suit would make it difficult in putting it one without another's assistance. Furthermore, there was no US Army logos on the suit.

So for me, this looked as silly as the original comic costume, but atleast with the original, the mask would look much cooler. Plus I once mentioned an idea for getting the original costume into the movie. It was somethign like the cotume had been a popular halloween costume and one day in the store, we see Norman having the conversation with the goblin costume with really is his other personality. From there we figure thats how the costume came about.
Click to expand...

To be accurate, we don't know for sure-- from only watching the movie-- if the suit was one piece or not. We never saw him dress or undress. It's possible that a one-piece suit would be easier to put on and take off, I don't know.
The suit wouldn't have the U.S. Army logo, yet, because the suit wasn't officially purchased by the government yet. Osborn had to prove it was useful first. I thought it was unrealistic that the government wouldn't want the suit and glider just because the General didn't like Osborn and the performance enhancing drug wasn't ready yet. As for the suit being a potential military device, I thought it would have been a good idea if the suit hadn't been so horribly conceived in its design.

I agree that your idea, if it led to them using the original costume, would have been better.
 
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