Which was worse?

[MR.Han]

GAYLORD

 

[LordSimen]

Indiana jones is a normal human being not someone altered into a superhero.

Bad analagy. Plus, his whip never ran out. =P

 

[Phoenix248]

i liked the organic webbing even though it wasn't true to the comics. it made sense: he was bit by a spider. he can crawl and has super strength and a spider-sense. even if he didnt have organic webbing , mechanical shooters wouldn't have been plausable IMO. he can barely make it home for thanksgiving and because of that Green Goblin realizes who spider-man really is. Where does he have the time (and the web shooters themselves) to make web fluid?

 

[MR.Han]

Yeah the webshooters werent neccassary. I always thought they were annoying in the comics when Spidey ran out of webbing.

 

[vengence]

I was okey with organics because I always wanted to see the man-spider on TV!!!

 

[WhiteRat]

Organics suck the worst but yeah they both sucked.

 

[kidtrunks69]

I think that the xeb was worres then green goblins costum.

 

[spider-jide]

Its a no brainer, obviously both pissed off the fans but GG's costume was the worst.

 

[Arahael]

They both suck and both were horrible changes,but organics was the worst change of them all because it completely changes his character even though people here deny that and wont face it.

 

[American_Hobo]

They both suck and both were horrible changes,but organics was the worst change of them all because it completely changes his character even though people here deny that and wont face it.

what do you mean they both suck?

 

[The Navigator]

I fail to see why EITHER of these is a big deal. Frankly, I was always more comfortable with organics anyway, because there's no way in hell those little mechanical pencil-lead holders could shoot out over thirty feet of line or goo, or whatever the hell he wanted it to be (all by, miracle of miracles, turning the nozzle). They never showed us how he rotated those damn things anyway, so why not organics? Even "The Science of Spider-Man" admits organics is a more plausible step to include in the transformation.

GG outfit. Yeah, it looked bad. The alternative looked worse and you all know it. There is no way in hell a guy in a pink and green outfit with booties, a cap, dishpan gloves, and outside undies would make an intimidating villian. He never has. Even Marvel asked if he looked "cute" or not his opening issue. Why is this guy number 1 at all? Doc Ock should CLEARLY--

Gettin' off topic there. Bottom line, each of these changes were welcome in my eyes.

 

[The Navigator]

I would like to take this opportunity to say I HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE the idea of Mechanical Webshooters.

It pissed me off when every episode of Spider-man and everytime I picked up a comic he'd "run out" and had to "Refill" It always bugged me. Plus if he had mechanical shooters you know it'd be buldging off of his wrists and he'd look like a ******.

I like organic much better.


And this "Man-Spider" busyness is just stupid. He's still Spider-man. He now just doesn't have stupid canisters attatched to his wrists. WOOPIDY DOO! YOU'LL LIVE!

EXACTLY. People who say organics is just lazy writing apparently never paid attention to the blatant deus ex webshooter cycle that just kept spinning throughout the comics.

And even "Marvels" had to acknowledge those bulges.

 

[The Navigator]

I would now like to take this opportunity to ask people that were disappointed why they wanted Spidey to be a carbon copy on the big screen as in the comics. I know I'm gonna get flamed for it, probably get called "ignorant" or something petty like that, but I really am curious.

If Spider-Man, to the letter, is what you want, then you already have him. Read Essentials, or shell out the big bucks for those back issues while pissing about how TPBs are the end of the business. The imagination (and the nostalgic past) is always better than what can ever be shown on the big screen--and the first "real" Spidey movie would pobably follow a comic-book storyline anyway. Just go back to the dusty long boxes and let your mind do what the CGI can't.

And don't feed me that line about "How you always wanted to see Spidey in the theaters." Because if you did, then you're either a liar or an idiot. The Spider-Man you know and Hollywood do not co-exist. Hollywood has a reputation for compromises,different directorial views, emphasis on "franchise."

In a word, change. Which is exactly what repels you. So--if you can't enjoy the Spider-Man movie, then I really suggest you write one yourself, fan-fic, or actual script to send in, or go back to the old issues and fond memories. The memory's always better than the present.

Let the good times roll.

 

[LadyKayoss]

I don't see why organic webbing is such a big problem. I mean, spiders make webs, so why's it a big stretch to believe that Spider-Man can? I know it's not how it is in the comics, but there are some valid points brought up by earlier posters, such as when would Peter have time to make the fluid? And would movie-goers unfamiliar with the comic really believe that those tiny cartidges can produce so many of those big web lines?

My only real problem with the Goblin's costume was the mask. I understand why they made the suit armor, why they eliminated the cape and the shoes, why the mask is a helmet. But why couldn't they do something that would let you at least see his mouth moving? The whole Power Rangers effect of voices with no movement or expressions really bugged me. It's a good thing Dafoe and Maguire sound nothing alike...

 

[WhiteRat]

I don't see why organic webbing is such a big problem. I mean, spiders make webs, so why's it a big stretch to believe that Spider-Man can? I know it's not how it is in the comics, but there are some valid points brought up by earlier posters, such as when would Peter have time to make the fluid? And would movie-goers unfamiliar with the comic really believe that those tiny cartidges can produce so many of those big web lines?

Yeah but there is no logical reason for the webbing to shoot out of his wrists at all.Realistically and logically the webbing should shoot out of his ass,thats the whole problem you run into with organics.Thats a weak argument to say that people unfamiliar with the comic would really believe that those tiny cartridges can produce so much webbing out of so many web lines.This is just fantasy we are talking about.They wont think anything more about that than they will of him getting the powers of a spider from a spiderbite.Its not a documentary.So you throw those laughable points out the window.The whole thing of spider-man is unbelieveable.

 

[The Navigator]

I don't see why organic webbing is such a big problem. I mean, spiders make webs, so why's it a big stretch to believe that Spider-Man can? I know it's not how it is in the comics, but there are some valid points brought up by earlier posters, such as when would Peter have time to make the fluid? And would movie-goers unfamiliar with the comic really believe that those tiny cartidges can produce so many of those big web lines?

Yeah but there is no logical reason for the webbing to shoot out of his wrists at all.Realistically and logically the webbing should shoot out of his ass,thats the whole problem you run into with organics.Thats a weak argument to say that people unfamiliar with the comic would really believe that those tiny cartridges can produce so much webbing out of so many web lines.This is just fantasy we are talking about.They wont think anything more about that than they will of him getting the powers of a spider from a spiderbite.Its not a documentary.So you throw those laughable points out the window.The whole thing of spider-man is unbelieveable.

Addressing this "organic" thing one more time....the reason a spider shoots webbing out of his ass is because that's the only place that can hold a spinneret, and it allows him to manipulate it with his eight legs.
Now, on Spider-Man, he's got a lot more room, so the spinnerets could go anywhere. And since the hands are the most-used manipulating tools on a human body, why not the wrists?
And there's a difference between "believable" and "deus ex machina." The synthetic webshooters had just that problem, as when they ran out (if they ever ran out) they almost always did it mid-swing or mid-battle. They never ran out at home when Spidey was trying to snag a beer and was too lazy to get up off the couch. If they wanted to make a more believable representation of a functioning mechanical device, then the webshooters should have been full of misalignments, rusty rotating cartridge system (at least, I assume they rotate, seeing as how the design seems to favor that of a gatling gun), corroding trigger mechanism, etc. I love Stan Lee and everything, but the synthetic webshooters, if he really wanted them to "fit," could have been a lot more problematic. And why not? Spider-Man is the signiature problem-ridden hero.
Of course, if you REALLY want to talk about where the spinnerets on a human would come out of, I'd say the nipples. Especially if it's Spider-Woman.

 

[WhiteRat]

For Him to store all the webbing though to shoot out of his wrists he would have to have popeye like arms to be able to shoot it out so many great distances and that would not be possible without damaging many organs and veins in his wrists with his powered webbing in him.also spiders dont shoot webbing,they spin it there is no logic for why he would be able to shoot webbing great distances out of his body in the first place.Theres the problem you got with organics.and Sure he would have had problems in the beginning constructing the mechs but with trial and error he would correct all those things.Just because we use our hands doesnt mean when we go to the restroom it will come out of our wrists does it? No the ass is a lot more logical.Theres just no logical justification for them to be able to shoot out of the wrists.

 

[The Navigator]

Slow down there, son. I never said it was possible. After all, you yourself said none of this is unbelievable anyway, so who gives a rat's ass (no pun intended) about possible? Even the mechs, and the whole idea of synthetically produced webbing is impossible.
And I'm still not seeing how you can make a case for it logically coming out of his ass when you've thrown logic out the window. Your entire argument is self-defeating because in the end, the only leg you have to stand on gets cut off--by you. If you yourself say that Spider-Man is an illogical creation, than you should have no problem with organic webbing spinnerets being in the wrists and shooting, not spinning, webbing. If you have no problem with believability, than you shouldn't have a problem with him swinging with intact arms and legs instead of a hand and some bones being left on the line (which they would with synthetic webshooters, if your grip didn;t fail).

In the end, I suppose, it merely comes down to personal taste. I prefer the organics, because to me, they make more sense instead of mechanicals, even if they come out of his wrists instead of his hands. He does, after all, have all the OTHER spider-powers...

 

[LadyKayoss]

I don't see why organic webbing is such a big problem. I mean, spiders make webs, so why's it a big stretch to believe that Spider-Man can? I know it's not how it is in the comics, but there are some valid points brought up by earlier posters, such as when would Peter have time to make the fluid? And would movie-goers unfamiliar with the comic really believe that those tiny cartidges can produce so many of those big web lines?

Yeah but there is no logical reason for the webbing to shoot out of his wrists at all.Realistically and logically the webbing should shoot out of his ass,thats the whole problem you run into with organics.Thats a weak argument to say that people unfamiliar with the comic would really believe that those tiny cartridges can produce so much webbing out of so many web lines.This is just fantasy we are talking about.They wont think anything more about that than they will of him getting the powers of a spider from a spiderbite.Its not a documentary.So you throw those laughable points out the window.The whole thing of spider-man is unbelieveable.

*gasps* This is fantasy? Really? You mean, if I go to New York, I won't actually meet Spider-Man? *rolls eyes*

Weak my argument may be (I didn't see the need to make strong ones, since everyone in previous posts already said everything I was thinking), but in documentaries and the like, the makers of the film said so themselves that they were trying to make things MORE believable to audiences who'd never seen Spider-Man - trust me, I know 'the whole thing of spider-man is unbelievable.' It's why they cut down the length of Ock's tentacles, for example - once they got too long, they looked less real.

And don't think I'm unaware where webbing comes from in a real spider; a friend of mine and I were having a highly amusing discussion about that and Spider-Man.

 

[Swordmaster]

I really wanted to hear Spidey say "go go power rangers when dodging GG's attacks.

 

[The Navigator]

Yeah, that would've been fun.

 

[The Lizard]

Even though the design of the GG armor annoyed some people, it didn't have an effect on the way Norman/GG behaved as a character.

The organic webs on the other hand took away some of what made Peter Parker a scientific whiz kid, as well as substituting a whole new batch of scientific improbabilities for ones we were already used to for decades.

So I say the orgs are still a worse spit in the face to fans than the GG armor.

 

[blind_fury]

In the end, I suppose, it merely comes down to personal taste. I prefer the organics, because to me, they make more sense instead of mechanicals, even if they come out of his wrists instead of his hands. He does, after all, have all the OTHER spider-powers...

You bring up a good point. Why shouldnt Peter Parker have all the abilities of a spider. Well simply because the character is not meant to be that simplistic. Making Spider-man a spider-hybrid rather than a scientist given partial spider abilities who uses his human intellect to adapt technology that mimics a spider is a huge mistake.

To simplify the character by making him more spider-like does a disservice to the creators of the character and the fans. It would be like giving Wolverine bone claws in the movie because adamantium doesnt exist in real life. An important achievement of Peter Parker's was the creation of webshooters and synthetic webbing. This creation seperates him from mutants who are born with animal-like powers. It also links him with the villians in spidey's universe that mostly have MACHINES imitate animal parts. Such as dr. ock, who has MECHANICAL tentacles. The Scorpion, who has a MECHANICAL tail. Even the Green Gobling uses technology exclusively for weaponry. You see the villians are scientist who CREATED technological weapons the same as Peter Parker created his technological weapon, mechanical webshooters. This is not by coincidence.

What organics is, is a dumbed down version of Spider-man. One who simply grows webbing powers instead of a gifted prodigy who invents webbing technology. Why this change was made comes down to one thing. LAZINESS. Truely imaginative filmamakers wouldve found a way to give Spidey his trusty webshooters.

 

[The Lizard]

What organics is, is a dumbed down version of Spider-man. One who simply grows webbing powers instead of a gifted prodigy who invents webbing technology. Why this change was made comes down to one thing. LAZINESS. Truely imaginative filmamakers wouldve found a way to give Spidey his trusty webshooters.

Yep.

Someday I hope to get ahold of that test footage mech webshooter scene and re-edit my own version of the 2002 movie.

 

[The Navigator]

You bring up a good point. Why shouldnt Peter Parker have all the abilities of a spider. Well simply because the character is not meant to be that simplistic. Making Spider-man a spider-hybrid rather than a scientist given partial spider abilities who uses his human intellect to adapt technology that mimics a spider is a huge mistake.

To simplify the character by making him more spider-like does a disservice to the creators of the character and the fans. It would be like giving Wolverine bone claws in the movie because adamantium doesnt exist in real life. An important achievement of Peter Parker's was the creation of webshooters and synthetic webbing. This creation seperates him from mutants who are born with animal-like powers. It also links him with the villians in spidey's universe that mostly have MACHINES imitate animal parts. Such as dr. ock, who has MECHANICAL tentacles. The Scorpion, who has a MECHANICAL tail. Even the Green Gobling uses technology exclusively for weaponry. You see the villians are scientist who CREATED technological weapons the same as Peter Parker created his technological weapon, mechanical webshooters. This is not by coincidence.

What organics is, is a dumbed down version of Spider-man. One who simply grows webbing powers instead of a gifted prodigy who invents webbing technology. Why this change was made comes down to one thing. LAZINESS. Truely imaginative filmamakers wouldve found a way to give Spidey his trusty webshooters.

Perhaps. But remember that Peter in the movies was a pretty big brain on the science front, if those beginning scenes in both movies are any indication. Token scenes, perhaps, and there should have been more of them (particularly after he lost his powers), but they're there.
And villians who create themselves, at least the big ones you mentioned, didn't set out to be villians, if you notice. They were created in an accident--like Spider-Man. (Well, most of them. Now that JMS has ass-raped continuity, GG apparently's been evil from the start.)
True, synthetic webshooters would have been nice to see--even I won't contend that. But, as I said before, though I know it's not true to the comics (unless you count Spidey 2099), I simply prefer the organics. They just make more sense to me.
Thank you, though, for responding in an insightful and polite manner. Nice to see not everyone who uses the internet is an ass.