Who can match or beat Superman?

[BrianWilly]

The Phoenix's powers are inconsistent, as with most uber-powered cosmic characters; even Superman. On her good days she could snuff out black holes and rearrange the universe with a thought, but that requires a pretty harmonious balance between Jean and the Phoenix Force which admittedly doesn't happen nearly as often as otherwise. Most times we see her, she has about as much power as we saw in X3 or throughout the majority of Morrison's run or something. Generally, I'd compare her power level with someone like the Green Lanterns; capable of amazing cosmic feats if pressed, but usually sticks with something more small-scale.

Which is still far from saying that Superman could defeat her. In fact, it should be a pretty straightforward victory for her. People tend to overstate and overestimate Superman's defense against telepathy; the simple fact is that he has no more special defense against telepathy than anyone else with an above-average willpower resistance does. He's not physiologically more resistant to it or something, he's just mentally stronger than the average person. Max Lord took over Superman's mind. J'onn J'onnz did it once he actually felt like it. For someone like Jean Grey, who has spent the majority of her life training her telepathy to take down far better than Superman and has since recently come into her own as an omega mutant world-class psychic, surpassing even Xavier...it literally should be like a walk in the park.

 

[Silicon Surfer]

In addition when in fiery Phoenix form she is pure energy and is immune to every power Superman has since she is not solid.

 

[Bapman]

Hmmm... so if she IS that powerful then I guess she CAN take out Superman with a breath.
AND about his mental defence.
I got that from the OFFICIAL SUPERMAN GUIDE... where it's written specifically that KRYPTONIANS have physical defense against mental manipulation... their brain is made that way... on top of that Superman has very strong willpower.
Ofcourse not every writer follows that... so we have the usual occasional bickering.

AND about GHORT RIDER... how does he defeat Superman again !?

P.S. --- Willy is right... all the uber powerful characters are inconsistent... so as much u can say they can fight this well... there's also the counter arguement that they cant... all the time.

 

[Silicon Surfer]

Ghost Riders hellfire is magical in nature and can't be put out by water, cold or lack of air. It burns the soul not the flesh so invulnerability or healing ability doesn't count for anything at all. It burns you until someone with magical control over it removes it or until your soul is destroyed.

 

[Bapman]

Wow... that's a pretty cool ability but I'm assuming its not so easy to just start burning a person's soul.
Specially one like Superman's...
PLUS... What happens if SUPERMAN punches him with full force... what happens to GR !?
Is he tough enough to take it !? does anything happen !?

 

[BrianWilly]

In addition when in fiery Phoenix form she is pure energy and is immune to every power Superman has since she is not solid.

Hnn, I don't know about that. When she merged with the M'Krann Crystal she became that fiery pure energy, but most of the time she's as solid as anyone. Or else the Shi'ar weapon would have never killed her the first time around, and Magneto's EMP would have never killed her the second time around.

 

[bkhedr]

Hmmm... so if she IS that powerful then I guess she CAN take out Superman with a breath.
AND about his mental defence.
I got that from the OFFICIAL SUPERMAN GUIDE... where it's written specifically that KRYPTONIANS have physical defense against mental manipulation... their brain is made that way... on top of that Superman has very strong willpower.
Ofcourse not every writer follows that... so we have the usual occasional bickering.

AND about GHORT RIDER... how does he defeat Superman again !?

P.S. --- Willy is right... all the uber powerful characters are inconsistent... so as much u can say they can fight this well... there's also the counter arguement that they cant... all the time.

If Max Lord could take over Supes' mind; omega level Jean Grey should be able to make him think he's a chicken.

 

[unstoppable]

Theres no way Magneto can beat Superman

unless he has some weird kryptonite mojo thing

 

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

Shouldn't this be in the DC forum? I doubt this one will go as long as the Hulk one since we've seen people match and even kill Supes. Besides, Superman fans are at least able to admit that it's happened.

Seriously....

 

[incubat]

hey..it's not like the hukl is invincible

 

[Badfish40oz]

All heros are invincible. Hulk will never die.

But I'm conceeding and saying Superman beats Hulk most of the time. There. But Hulk would still destory him in arm-wrestling!!! And Hulk is much much cooler (IMO).

Why is there even an argument with Superman vs Phoenix? Isn't she almost like THE GOD of the MU??

 

[Marvin]

good point there

someone should make the arm wrestling tournament


(may put some perspective on the pointlessness of hulk vs superman in a real fight)

 

[Kitsune]

I got that from the OFFICIAL SUPERMAN GUIDE... where it's written specifically that KRYPTONIANS have physical defense against mental manipulation...

So DC has gone back to giving Superman powers that there is no reason he should have? Worked really well against Maxwell Lord, didn't it?

 

[Vanguard07]

Wow... that's a pretty cool ability but I'm assuming its not so easy to just start burning a person's soul.
Specially one like Superman's...
PLUS... What happens if SUPERMAN punches him with full force... what happens to GR !?
Is he tough enough to take it !? does anything happen !?

Well technically Ghost Rider is "immune to all conventional forms of injury"
so only high end magics or super-science can really damage GR.
A punch from Supes is just a straight forward application of force. That falls under conventional to me.

Were Supes to full out punch GR I think he'd be several thousand miles away and moving fast but he'd be relatively unharmed.

Also the Penance Stare would take Supes down.
All the pain he's ever inflicted coming back to him all at once would deffinitely bring him down.

 

[Badfish40oz]

What pain has Superman caused others? Is it including the pain he's caused villains like Doomsday? Cause if that's the case, um yeah, Superman is down. That's years and years of Superman's attacks on Superman himself. It's like Superman X 1,000,000 in one stare, aimed soley at Superman!

 

[Kitsune]

What pain has Superman caused others?

 

[Vanguard07]

All pain. Physical, emotional etc etc.
Everytime he's ever punched, kicked, burned, slapped etc etc (and yes including villains like doomsday) it'd all come back to him at once.

Basically the penance stare would take down anyone who's had a reasonable ammount of fighting experience.

 

[Bapman]

SSSsooo... then technically... GR should be able to take down even GALACTUS with his "STARING".
To argue against KITSUNE
Yeaaahhh... HULK was also taken out by BATMAN with a gas grenade. Sooo blame in on the writers for not maintaining consistency.
FUNNY... how is SUPERMAN has lotsa powers... then it sucks or its not fair... and when SURFER... HULK... THOR have too much power then its cool.
It's nothing but prejudiced against the MAN OF STEEL.

Back on Topic... Its already been decided that PHOENIX can take out SUPERMAN sssooo no need to come and repeat her powers over and over again.

 

[Silicon Surfer]

The PC Superman was taken out several times by high level telepaths. Despite mental defenses they may still be able to do it. The ones I know of PC were Starstriker ( a villain with the same powers as Captain Comet ), Grodd, and the Shark.

 

[ibsisomis]

Actually I was thinking the same thing about you superman fans? People say they want Hulk taken down a peg or 2. But the same people that say this stuff are superman fans? WTF!?

 

[Son_of_W]

I'm not sure if these has been mentioned, but Galactus, Hyperion, Sentry, and Gladiator (the latter 3 are probably about evenly matched with Supes). Also, Sebastion Shaw absorbs Kintetic energy, if Supes punched him once, Supes gets knocked into the next century. Circumstances pending, absorbing man can take him too. Phoenix can take Supes without blinking an eyelash (at least if she's at full power like she was originally written), or turn his mind inside out otherwise. proffesor X, Psylocke, Onslaught... assuming adamantium is as unbreakable to Supes as it is in MU, Wolverine, Sabretooth, adamantium bonded heroes/villains could also potentially defeat supes. The problem is that characters would have to be used creatively in some cases to win, but they could do it, without the worst hardship in the world.

 

[Vanguard07]

Wolverine and Sabertooth and their like would stand no chance.
None at all.

 

[Silicon Surfer]

Adamantium is not unbreakable. It has been damaged and destroyed on several occasions. Thor has damaged it, the Human Torch destroyed a large quantity of it, and Wolverine has had claws torn off in 1 or 2 alternate timelines.

 

[juggster-rules]

DR. Doom

 

[supermarvelman]

SSSsooo... then technically... GR should be able to take down even GALACTUS with his "STARING".
To argue against KITSUNE
Yeaaahhh... HULK was also taken out by BATMAN with a gas grenade. Sooo blame in on the writers for not maintaining consistency.
FUNNY... how is SUPERMAN has lotsa powers... then it sucks or its not fair... and when SURFER... HULK... THOR have too much power then its cool.
It's nothing but prejudiced against the MAN OF STEEL.

Back on Topic... Its already been decided that PHOENIX can take out SUPERMAN sssooo no need to come and repeat her powers over and over again.

I doubt that, since Galactus is a whole different kinda force.

The reason why most people think Superman having so much power sucks is cause he basically has every power needed to defend against pretty much any kind of attack. I recently read a post that said he has some kinda telepathy resistance, come on. They just recently they gave him his super intelligence back, whats the point?

Invulnerability (only vulnerable to kryptonite and pure magical attacks/weapons, but only sharp enough magical weapons can hurt him, some think that Mjolnir cant even hurt him)
Strength (base strength higher than the Hulks base strength)
Speed (close to Flash speed)
Flight
Intelligence
Heat vision
Ice breath
X-ray vision
Telepathy Resistance
List list can keep going, thats what I dont like about DC's Crisis, its an excuse to give him more power. Superman has so many limitations on what can hurt him it's not even funny. It seems like people thinks its okay cause he was the first real modern superhero, and he is the basis for pretty much every hero that came after him.

I mean really look at the powers Superman had when he first appeared back in the 30's and 40's, they uped his powers so he could be more powerful than Captain Marvel. He went from fast as a speeding bullet to moving so fast he could travel back in time. Able to leap tall buildings in a single bound to full on flight.

Hulk - Hulk is nowhere close to being as overpowered as Superman, he cant fly, he isnt nearly as fast as Superman, no heat vision, none of that extra crap, he's always had the same powers, no matter what form he takes, whether it's Grey, Savage, Merged, or Proffesor Hulk.

Thor is a Norse God, and he still isn't nearly as overpowered as Superman, and when he is it's due to power boosts from Odin, and he still doesnt have as many defences as Superman does. DC makes a Crisis and magically Superman has all these extra powers.

Silver Surfer is powered by Galactus, one of the strongest characters in all of Comics, I personally think that Silver Surfer being that powerful isn't that far-fetched. Superman is an alien powered by the sun, not powered by some cosmic force or godly power.

Plus I dont think characters are cool because there power levels, but because of the actual story and depth of the character. Sentry is a cool character not becuase he is so powerful, but because he is so mysterios and conflicted.