Homecoming Who should be the Villain in Spider-Man (2017)? - Part 1

[The_Manhunter]

Looks better than ASM Lizard lol.

I thought ASM Lizard looked cool

 

[Doctor Octopus]

He remind me of that.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Giving Flash the symbiote always seemed utterly pointless to me, I think the character they developed with Flash was interesting, but throwing Venom onto him seems like such a cheap tactic, like everything Marvel does anymore. They can replace Venom with a power suit, and nothing would change.

I'm sure by the time MCU Spidey 3 rolls around Brock will be Venom again in time for the movie.

I doubt it (and certainly hope not) They don't seem to be at all concerned with correlating the movies and comics. Brock is fine in his current role as Toxin.

I thought ASM Lizard looked cool

As did I.

 

[I'm Venom]

Flash is better Venom than Eddie.

No. Worst... okay, not the worst Venom, but I don't see him as deserving. It also doesn't make sense to me that he seems to have complete control of it. People seriously want him as the first incarnation of Venom in these movies? That doesn't work for a couple reasons:

1. The entire reason Venom exists is due to wanting revenge on Peter Parker. Venom came about due to the hatred Brock had for Spider-Man and resentment the symbiote had for Peter for getting rid of it.

2. When making a movie with a superhero/supervillain who has had their identity used by various other characters they generally tend to stick with the most iconic. That's why we always get Wayne as Batman instead of Terry and got Hal in the Green Lantern movie instead of Stewart, despite the fact he gained more popularity in recent years.

 

[CaptainWagner]

I don't think anyone is saying they want Flash first. His story doesn't work without a previously villionous Venom.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

Flash is the superior Venom for 2 reasons. Theme of Redemption and Second Chances.

We all know who Flash Thomson is. Anyone who knows Spidey does. He's the guy who bullied Peter. Having him go into the army and him losing both his legs in an incident is utter genius. It's very relatable in today's world. Then he gets to still be useful given a second chance to do good as Agent Venom. It's one of the best ideas in Spidey comics and the best idea in all of Venom's history. Flash is now a hero. Hell him and Peter are cool.

Eddie meanwhile is basically Bleeding Cool lol. Recently BC published an article saying Iron Fist is canceled after a bar conversation they had with someone at NYCC. That's Eddie. Gets shady info and publishing it then when we learn that its ********, he's mad at Spidey even though all Spidey did was Spidey's job.

Eddie is basically to Spidey what Hush is to Batman BEFORE PAUL DINI CAME IN and improved Hush's character and backstory greatly and wrote many good Hush stories in Heart of Hush, Streets of Gotham, Hush Money, and House of Hush.

If Eddie Venom was so great, we wouldn't have someone else be Venom. It's like someone besides an Osborn being the Goblin or someone besides Lex being..... Lex. Or someone besides "Unknown" lol being Joker. Or hell someone besides Fisk being Kingpin, Engma being Riddler, Otto being Doc Ock, Victor being Doom, Eric being Magneto and more but Venom and Eddie would never be among them because he's not a great villain in the comics. Mostly because nobody has written him well but still with all the NOT ONLY NEW VENOMS BUT NEW SYMBIOTES. Carnage, Toxin, Anti-Venom, and more. We have so many different Venoms and symbiotes because point blank Venom/Eddie isn't interesting or good. If he was, these characters are unneeded.

It's like Robins. Now I love Robin. Mostly Grayson Robin. Don't care for the rest. I mean some are ok but not important. Jason is only good if you need to practice your crowbar work out. Tim's alright. Stephanie... well next. Damian is a whiny little ****. Carrie is fine due to her being a one time character. But still none of them come close to Grayson as Robin. Dick became Robin from 40 to the early 80s. Since the 80s, we've had 5 different Robins some canon and one not. But still we had Dick as Robin for 40 years. Is Eddie even still anything now?

Eddie has been and never will be important. The symbiote is what makes Venom at least look badass and why people like Venom. Sure as hell not for Eddie's character.

@LEVITIKUZ So basically you want the Ultimate version of the Symbiote?

Kinda. In terms of looks, threat level, and badassness yes. But Ultimate symbiote wasn't an alien. Some glop Eddie and Peter's dad made as the cure for cancer in which they partnered with Trask Industries. My take has the symbiote as alien and used by Oscorp.

But Ultimate Venom is way better in terms of being an actually threat.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Flash is better Venom than Eddie.

Depends on what you're idea of Venom is suppose to be.. both are vastly different.... Venom's name carries weight.. which is why brock wasn't just called venom, and instead called "agent" venom. im not a fan honestly of Venom with guns and kevlar like some sort of Punisher rip off

 

[I'm Venom]

Flash is the superior Venom for 2 reasons. Theme of Redemption and Second Chances.

We all know who Flash Thomson is. Anyone who knows Spidey does. He's the guy who bullied Peter. Having him go into the army and him losing both his legs in an incident is utter genius. It's very relatable in today's world. Then he gets to still be useful given a second chance to do good as Agent Venom. It's one of the best ideas in Spidey comics and the best idea in all of Venom's history. Flash is now a hero. Hell him and Peter are cool.

Eddie meanwhile is basically Bleeding Cool lol. Recently BC published an article saying Iron Fist is canceled after a bar conversation they had with someone at NYCC. That's Eddie. Gets shady info and publishing it then when we learn that its ********, he's mad at Spidey even though all Spidey did was Spidey's job.

Eddie is basically to Spidey what Hush is to Batman BEFORE PAUL DINI CAME IN and improved Hush's character and backstory greatly and wrote many good Hush stories in Heart of Hush, Streets of Gotham, Hush Money, and House of Hush.

If Eddie Venom was so great, we wouldn't have someone else be Venom. It's like someone besides an Osborn being the Goblin or someone besides Lex being..... Lex. Or someone besides "Unknown" lol being Joker. Or hell someone besides Fisk being Kingpin, Engma being Riddler, Otto being Doc Ock, Victor being Doom, Eric being Magneto and more but Venom and Eddie would never be among them because he's not a great villain in the comics. Mostly because nobody has written him well but still with all the NOT ONLY NEW VENOMS BUT NEW SYMBIOTES. Carnage, Toxin, Anti-Venom, and more. We have so many different Venoms and symbiotes because point blank Venom/Eddie isn't interesting or good. If he was, these characters are unneeded.

It's like Robins. Now I love Robin. Mostly Grayson Robin. Don't care for the rest. I mean some are ok but not important. Jason is only good if you need to practice your crowbar work out. Tim's alright. Stephanie... well next. Damian is a whiny little ****. Carrie is fine due to her being a one time character. But still none of them come close to Grayson as Robin. Dick became Robin from 40 to the early 80s. Since the 80s, we've had 5 different Robins some canon and one not. But still we had Dick as Robin for 40 years. Is Eddie even still anything now?

Eddie has been and never will be important. The symbiote is what makes Venom at least look badass and why people like Venom. Sure as hell not for Eddie's character.

When I suggested Venom, however I was saying that if properly handled it could be good... you'd have to draw it out though... Brock has to be around from the first film in order for his story to resonate and to lay the groundwork as to why Brock hates Peter/Spidey... it took time in the comics, and should they decide that Venom should be the villain in the third film of a new Spidey trilogy, they'd have to build up to it in the first two films... while Spidey deals with others in the first two films little by little the groundwork is layed for Venom.

The thing about Spidey is that he has a lot of villains, but many of them are corny... I've never liked Chameleon or Mysterio, and a lot of the others ones are just tough to pull off, especially if you want to ground the movie in some sort of reality... I think that Kingpin could be good, especially if handled properly.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I like the idea of Kingpin and Vulture, but I prefer they keep Fisk for Netflix.

 

[The Joker]

Flash is the superior Venom for 2 reasons. Theme of Redemption and Second Chances.

We all know who Flash Thomson is. Anyone who knows Spidey does. He's the guy who bullied Peter. Having him go into the army and him losing both his legs in an incident is utter genius. It's very relatable in today's world. Then he gets to still be useful given a second chance to do good as Agent Venom. It's one of the best ideas in Spidey comics and the best idea in all of Venom's history. Flash is now a hero. Hell him and Peter are cool.

Eddie meanwhile is basically Bleeding Cool lol. Recently BC published an article saying Iron Fist is canceled after a bar conversation they had with someone at NYCC. That's Eddie. Gets shady info and publishing it then when we learn that its ********, he's mad at Spidey even though all Spidey did was Spidey's job.

Eddie is basically to Spidey what Hush is to Batman BEFORE PAUL DINI CAME IN and improved Hush's character and backstory greatly and wrote many good Hush stories in Heart of Hush, Streets of Gotham, Hush Money, and House of Hush.

If Eddie Venom was so great, we wouldn't have someone else be Venom. It's like someone besides an Osborn being the Goblin or someone besides Lex being..... Lex. Or someone besides "Unknown" lol being Joker. Or hell someone besides Fisk being Kingpin, Engma being Riddler, Otto being Doc Ock, Victor being Doom, Eric being Magneto and more but Venom and Eddie would never be among them because he's not a great villain in the comics. Mostly because nobody has written him well but still with all the NOT ONLY NEW VENOMS BUT NEW SYMBIOTES. Carnage, Toxin, Anti-Venom, and more. We have so many different Venoms and symbiotes because point blank Venom/Eddie isn't interesting or good. If he was, these characters are unneeded.

It's like Robins. Now I love Robin. Mostly Grayson Robin. Don't care for the rest. I mean some are ok but not important. Jason is only good if you need to practice your crowbar work out. Tim's alright. Stephanie... well next. Damian is a whiny little ****. Carrie is fine due to her being a one time character. But still none of them come close to Grayson as Robin. Dick became Robin from 40 to the early 80s. Since the 80s, we've had 5 different Robins some canon and one not. But still we had Dick as Robin for 40 years. Is Eddie even still anything now?

Eddie has been and never will be important. The symbiote is what makes Venom at least look badass and why people like Venom. Sure as hell not for Eddie's character.

LEVI still firing on all cylinders

Well said. Especially the last three lines.

 

[ernesth100]

Flash as Venom would be great. To see him go from bully in high school. Possibly slowly becoming a friend. But then he finds out about Peters powers(possibly during the time when Peter gets the symbiote and his personality changes, perhaps Peter humiliates Flash duting this time to), Flash eventually gets the symbiote and tries to get revenge. But realizes he's wrong and abandons it.

If they can fit it in maybe he goes to war but then...you know what happens(legs). And they give him back the symbiote thus, Agent Venom is born. Or if not, when Flash realizes he's wrong for trying to get revenge on Peter, maybe right then and there his will overpowers the symbiote and he slowly begins to become a hero Agent Venom.


Either way we get the full package. Symbiote Peter, Venom, more character development from Flash, and Agent Venom. It's a win win situation. I mean come on, why risk them miscasting Eddie Brock again when they can easily save money and time by integrating Venom into Flash.

 

[Webhead2006]

Still if we see venom again its better to start with eddie. Then get him jailed. Govt takes venom symbiote and for flash then once he is older mid 20s become a heroic venom then.

 

[I'm Venom]

I agree with you, Webhead. It's getting annoying the way they're replacing their characters with new versions. Brock as Venom is original. To me when you mention the name Venom... Eddie Brock is the first and only name that comes to mind. I know, anyone can harbor the suit and use it, but no one is better than Brock with it. He immortalized the character.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

LEVI still firing on all cylinders

Well said. Especially the last three lines.

Thanks...

Now not trying to make you reply to anything but what are your thought on my thoughts on your thoughts on my thoughts on my take on Venom

http://forums.superherohype.com/showpost.php?p=32279055&postcount=966

 

[Lantern Venom]

No. Worst... okay, not the worst Venom, but I don't see him as deserving.

Flash's Venom book wasn't awful, but (surprise!), it's highlight came when Eddie showed up for an arc. Flash was just a plot device to remind everyone in the 60s that Peter was a geek. His small appearance in the Raimi trilogy was all that character needed. I certainly hope the new trilogy doesn't retread that ground because it's clichéd now.

Eddie has been and never will be important. The symbiote is what makes Venom at least look badass and why people like Venom. Sure as hell not for Eddie's character.


.

Ha ha...NO. Doppleganger is a character who just looks cool, but he never had the breakaway impact that Venom had.

Eddie has been interesting with other symbiotes and when he has no symbiote. Marvel has kept trying to get away from him for whatever reason and recreate the Venom magic. They've always failed. Flash is just the latest attempt to stick another mediocre character with the symbiote to make another cheap Venom knock-off.

Mark my words: if and when Marvel decides to give Eddie the black symbiote back and rejoin the *only* Venom, that issue will blow away the sales numbers for Venom Vol. 2.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Flash is the superior Venom for 2 reasons. Theme of Redemption and Second Chances.

We all know who Flash Thomson is. Anyone who knows Spidey does. He's the guy who bullied Peter. Having him go into the army and him losing both his legs in an incident is utter genius. It's very relatable in today's world. Then he gets to still be useful given a second chance to do good as Agent Venom. It's one of the best ideas in Spidey comics and the best idea in all of Venom's history. Flash is now a hero. Hell him and Peter are cool.

Eddie meanwhile is basically Bleeding Cool lol. Recently BC published an article saying Iron Fist is canceled after a bar conversation they had with someone at NYCC. That's Eddie. Gets shady info and publishing it then when we learn that its ********, he's mad at Spidey even though all Spidey did was Spidey's job.

Eddie is basically to Spidey what Hush is to Batman BEFORE PAUL DINI CAME IN and improved Hush's character and backstory greatly and wrote many good Hush stories in Heart of Hush, Streets of Gotham, Hush Money, and House of Hush.

If Eddie Venom was so great, we wouldn't have someone else be Venom. It's like someone besides an Osborn being the Goblin or someone besides Lex being..... Lex. Or someone besides "Unknown" lol being Joker. Or hell someone besides Fisk being Kingpin, Engma being Riddler, Otto being Doc Ock, Victor being Doom, Eric being Magneto and more but Venom and Eddie would never be among them because he's not a great villain in the comics. Mostly because nobody has written him well but still with all the NOT ONLY NEW VENOMS BUT NEW SYMBIOTES. Carnage, Toxin, Anti-Venom, and more. We have so many different Venoms and symbiotes because point blank Venom/Eddie isn't interesting or good. If he was, these characters are unneeded.

It's like Robins. Now I love Robin. Mostly Grayson Robin. Don't care for the rest. I mean some are ok but not important. Jason is only good if you need to practice your crowbar work out. Tim's alright. Stephanie... well next. Damian is a whiny little ****. Carrie is fine due to her being a one time character. But still none of them come close to Grayson as Robin. Dick became Robin from 40 to the early 80s. Since the 80s, we've had 5 different Robins some canon and one not. But still we had Dick as Robin for 40 years. Is Eddie even still anything now?

Eddie has been and never will be important. The symbiote is what makes Venom at least look badass and why people like Venom. Sure as hell not for Eddie's character.



Kinda. In terms of looks, threat level, and badassness yes. But Ultimate symbiote wasn't an alien. Some glop Eddie and Peter's dad made as the cure for cancer in which they partnered with Trask Industries. My take has the symbiote as alien and used by Oscorp.

But Ultimate Venom is way better in terms of being an actually threat.

Agreed. These great reasons why Flash is better Venom than Eddie Brock. Brock just a gimmick character with no substance.

Flash as Venom would be great. To see him go from bully in high school. Possibly slowly becoming a friend. But then he finds out about Peters powers(possibly during the time when Peter gets the symbiote and his personality changes, perhaps Peter humiliates Flash duting this time to), Flash eventually gets the symbiote and tries to get revenge. But realizes he's wrong and abandons it.

Agreed. That much better than Brock's story.

 

[I'm Venom]

Agreed. These great reasons why Flash is better Venom than Eddie Brock. Brock just a gimmick character with no substance.

How is he a gimmick character with no substance? Venom's motivation is clear.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

lol Rocket Racer have clear motive too but he still a gimmick villain.

Brock just cliche loser who blame someone he not even know for his problems. No substance and not interesting. Just revenge gimmick villain.

 

[I'm Venom]

What are Hydro-Man's, Scorpion's, and Shocker's motivations?

All I want is Jensen Ackles as Brock; someone who's the complete opposite of Peter in terms of personality and lifestyle.

 

[ernesth100]

Shocker is a simple safe cracker. And Spider-Man gets in his way. It's as simple as that. Not every villain has to be overcomplicated or have some intense motivation. I'm not sure about in the original comics but in TAS, Scorpion was tricked into becoming Scorpion by Jameson and Scorpion wanted to get revenge. Now while Jameson isn't the nicest guy. Peter gets his money from that guy so, he can't really let him die.

Hydro Man is a Sandman rehash imo. But then again Spidey pretty much has all the elements. Molten Man(Fire), Hydro Man(Water) and Sandman(Earth) all he needs is someone with air power. Would that technically be Shocker or Vulture? I dunno, getting off topic.


If they do Brock, fine cool. Just make it good, it'd be nice to see. If they don't that's also fine by me. As it can save time and money, and be an intersting twist as I originally stated to make a pre-existing character like Flash Venom.

 

[TheGearMan]

I'm not sure about in the original comics but in TAS, Scorpion was tricked into becoming Scorpion by Jameson and Scorpion wanted to get revenge. Now while Jameson isn't the nicest guy. Peter gets his money from that guy so, he can't really let him die.

In his origin, Gargan knew the risks and agreed because he was getting $10,000. 'Course, the serum messed with his head and made him lose his sense of morality and stuff, and he decided to rob an armored car just for kicks (after thinking he had killed Spidey). He wanted to off Jameson because he knew Jameson was the only one who knew his secret identity.

I think some revenge stuff against Jameson came later, because in his origin comic he seemed pretty happy with his powers. He even had an opportunity to take the antidote.

 

[ernesth100]

Well then, thanks for the info.

 

[I'm Venom]

I preferred the version of Venom without the slime and such. I hated what every creator since has continued to do to him.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

lol Rocket Racer have clear motive too but he still a gimmick villain.

Brock just cliche loser who blame someone he not even know for his problems. No substance and not interesting. Just revenge gimmick villain.

Welcome to 95% of villains. And most of spideys too... they're often irrational.

People want a venom as a villain, flash venom was never that.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Welcome to 95% of villains. And most of spideys too... they're often irrational.

People want a venom as a villain, flash venom was never that.

Disagreed. Most villains have good reason for wanting revenge that make sense. Venom do not. His just really stupid, make no sense not even for villain. Venom hate someone he never even met before, no other villain who want revenge on hero like that never meet them. Flash Venom can be written as villain like Levikutz's ideas. Better than Eddie Brock Venom. Mac Gargan Venom better than Eddie Brock Venom too.