Homecoming Who should be the Villain in Spider-Man (2017)? - Part 2

[Web-Head]

People complained that Andrew Garfield was "too good looking" to be bullied...I can only imagine what they'd say about Efron.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

No, poor choices in story direction, marketing gaffs, and studio interference ruined ASM and brought us to this point. None of that had to do with coming up with creative ideas for villains and supporting characters.

To the GA, Mr. Negative is every bit as an unknown as Mysterio. I'm not saying I'd pick him over Mysterio, but I'm not going to boycott a movie with him, nor do I think it would tank the franchise like you claim.

not exactly...... Mysterio has has plenty of media outlets in his 60 year history.. from multitudes of cartoons and video games..so it's very incorrect to assume the mass majority of the General Audience is completely in the dark about spidey's rogues... especially those who have had lots of pop culture exposure.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

plus again like kevin has said in past reports they want the film and likely this series take to be less on the villain blowing up the city/wanting to control the world and have a more smaller scale deal. Like how antman was a more smaller scale story. You can leave the earth destroying threats for the avengers/teamup films and all that. Heck maybe to be different this go around like the netflix shows are keeping things more grounded. They will have spidey in his street element and play off the street crime, and over the course of 2 or 3 films we get the more huger threat carrying foes.

and there's plenty of infamous spidey rogues that are quite popular who arn't master minding schemers who would ever do anything remotely like "blowing up the city"

vulture, Hobgoblin, green goblin, kraven, chameleon, sandman, morbius, hammerhead, kingpin, scorpion, smythe....

most of spidey's villains are not "avengers villain caliber" they are usually smaller more personal villains. petty thieves who got great power and had no responsibility. there's ZERO reason to throw in villains most of the fans even couldn't care less about.

 

[Webhead2006]

i am not saying they need to start with puma or prowler. We could see something like enforcers, shocker, hammerhead and a few lower key guys like them. And they could end up being side characters to the likes of kingpin, or some other bigger name. Still i bet we will end up with mysterio, vulture for first film. Maybe kraven even though i still feel he be suited for sequel.

Just hard to judge where things will go playing off the hs angle and john hughes vibe they want. To what foes and what type of story said foes could play in that. On top of the whole thing i said kevin feige wanting to do a more smaller scale tone to the film and build up to the big earth ending deals.

 

[Frodo]

I think Mysterio would be a cool starter villain for a 15 year old Spiderman with a smaller scale story. He's theatrical and mysterious enough to be an interesting foe, yet you wouldn't have to have another plot in which you're trying to raise the stakes for the sake of having large stakes.

With this reboot they can afford to tell a smaller scale story with a villain that hasn't been used ,now that we've seen the Osborn saga, Doc Ock, the Venom saga, etc done before on a grander scale with larger stakes. Someone like Mysterio , who is one of his classic foes who hasn't been used, and could work really well as a first challenge for a relatively green teenaged Spiderman.

 

[NotSoLongAgo]

Honestly mysterio is the only non-used villain that I think wouldn't end up being a snooze fest. Now you see me x Spider-man

 

[spideyboy_1111]

i am not saying they need to start with puma or prowler. We could see something like enforcers, shocker, hammerhead and a few lower key guys like them. And they could end up being side characters to the likes of kingpin, or some other bigger name. Still i bet we will end up with mysterio, vulture for first film. Maybe kraven even though i still feel he be suited for sequel.

Just hard to judge where things will go playing off the hs angle and john hughes vibe they want. To what foes and what type of story said foes could play in that. On top of the whole thing i said kevin feige wanting to do a more smaller scale tone to the film and build up to the big earth ending deals.

smaller scale does not = lesser villains.

you can have big villains on a smaller scale...

 

[CaptainWagner]

Again, I would never suggest using Mr. Negative over Mysterio. I just took offense at the person who suggested that using lesser known villains would tank the franchise, made a baseless analogy to ASM, and then attacked the creative minds of members of the board.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Again, I would never suggest using Mr. Negative over Mysterio. I just took offense at the person who suggested that using lesser known villains would tank the franchise, made a baseless analogy to ASM, and then attacked the creative minds of members of the board.

well it would tank the franchise if they were the only villains (and the main villains) used

 

[CaptainWagner]

well it would tank the franchise if they were the only villains (and the main villains) used

Before anyone attacks me, I don't think this SHOULD happen. BUT:

I really don't see an amazing Spider-man movie with Mr. Negative and a few flashy goons would make any less money than an amazing Spider-man movie with Mysterio as the main villains. Neither villain is going to immediately roll off the tongue of the GA but they both have potential for hugely striking visuals in the trailers to draw people in.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Before anyone attacks me, I don't think this SHOULD happen. BUT:

I really don't see an amazing Spider-man movie with Mr. Negative and a few flashy goons would make any less money than an amazing Spider-man movie with Mysterio as the main villains. Neither villain is going to immediately roll off the tongue of the GA but they both have potential for hugely striking visuals in the trailers to draw people in.

except one is visually boring in terms of fighting skill/power display (mr negative just inverts colors visually) and the other has infinite possibilities and has a 60+ year history in pop culture... and is recognizable by more than just "fanboys" which, yes... the there is still a decent chunk of GA who knows who Mysterio is... they might not know beyond appearance, or name.. but they recognize the character.. especially if you grew up watching any spider-man cartoon.. (which most of us did)

 

[NotSoLongAgo]

Again, I would never suggest using Mr. Negative over Mysterio. I just took offense at the person who suggested that using lesser known villains would tank the franchise, made a baseless analogy to ASM, and then attacked the creative minds of members of the board.

Nah I agree with you. People go for spider-man not the villain. You can work just about any villain into a good story with good writing. But at the end of the day it's about Peter Parker.

Anyway that said, I never suggested Mr. negative as a main villain. He's a gang leader, and a pretty badass one at that. You can easily work in Shocker as one of his goons or something. I think Mr. Negative would be a more entertaining gangster than say, Hammerhead or Silvermane. And no one gave a **** about tombstone before they used him in Spectacular. As I said before I think some lesser known villains have more potential for a better story.

 

[CaptainWagner]

except one is visually boring in terms of fighting skill/power display (mr negative just inverts colors visually) and the other has infinite possibilities and has a 60+ year history in pop culture... and is recognizable by more than just "fanboys" which, yes... the there is still a decent chunk of GA who knows who Mysterio is... they might not know beyond appearance, or name.. but they recognize the character.. especially if you grew up watching any spider-man cartoon.. (which most of us did)

Personally, I think Mr. Negative and the effect his powers have on the items he empowers makes for a very visually striking villain. Not nearly as spectacular as Mysterio, but he's not going to tank a film, especially with the potential for such an amazing story.

But hey, at least we can all agree Mysterio is the best option for the main villain! t:

 

[Majik1387]

If Jessica Jones' ratings are any indication, it doesn't matter how A, B, or C-list the characters are, as long as they have the right writing and performances, it will be a hit.

 

[BarryAllen]

Prowler shouldn't be used because his fan base is minuscule (unlike GOTG which was getting a decent fanbase out of comic readers... something prowler has never had) not only that.. but it's a completely wasted slot for much better villains and allies.

Now you're just being revisionist about the past. When the Guardians movie was first announced, the team was at the same place Prowler is right now. Same with Inhumans. Same with Jessica Jones. Marvel only started pushing those characters and causing awareness once the movie started coming. The same exact thing can happen to someone like Prowler.

I don't see how Prowler is a bad option. He fits right in with the smaller scale conflict that Fiege is talking about, and serves as a great parallel to a young Peter.

... a vast majority want his iconic villains on screen.. not the unpopular ones. My god.. if you think people were in an up-roar over Amazing 1 & 2 and Raimi's 3... by all means, imagine the people who'd be pissed off waiting for the next spider-man movie only to have it be about peter dealing with Prowler and puma... -_-

People were in uproar due to the quality of the movies. A good Spidey movie with someone lesser known would be better than a bad movie with a bigger name villain.

not exactly...... Mysterio has has plenty of media outlets in his 60 year history.. from multitudes of cartoons and video games..so it's very incorrect to assume the mass majority of the General Audience is completely in the dark about spidey's rogues... especially those who have had lots of pop culture exposure.

Go out onto the street and ask a random person who Mysterio is. And then ask who Prowler is. They won't know either because they're both unknown to the general audience.

Again, I would never suggest using Mr. Negative over Mysterio. I just took offense at the person who suggested that using lesser known villains would tank the franchise, made a baseless analogy to ASM, and then attacked the creative minds of members of the board.

AMEN. I'm not saying that I only want a lesser known character as the villain for Spidey's movie, but I'm not ruling out the fact that there are certain characters outside of the ones that constantly mentioned that could make for unique villains and stories.

 

[harryoscop]

Prowler could be an interesting choice considering that he's the same age as Peter and apparently a genius just like Peter. Could serve as an interesting parallel.

No thanks to Mr. Negative.

 

[UltimateMarvel]

I don't think they will use unknown villains.

 

[younglink42]

All villains are unknown to the general audience

 

[UltimateMarvel]

Not at all. Mr Negative for example is REALLY unknown compared to villains like Shocker, Mysterio, Vulture and Kraven.

 

[The Overlord]

smaller scale does not = lesser villains.

you can have big villains on a smaller scale...

Excatly, just because a Spidey villain is not trying to take over the world, despite mean anyone besides a super die hard Spidey fan would want to see a villain rob banks for two hours, you can't base 3 acts and climax on that. That is why Shocker or Prowler would not be a good choice for a Big Bad, they would not provide a truly cinematic experience. those guys would work best as henchmen. There is no real stakes with a villain who does nothing but commit petty thievery for 2 hours, which seems to be lost on some people. You could give Prolwer some characterization and make a morally conflicted henchman who ultimately rebels against his more ruthless boss.


That is why I suggested Mysterio be a true psychopath with schemes that invoke psychological horror and his ruthless nature means he is willing to kill dozens of people just to feed his desire for fame.

People here have said that is not true to the comics, but I ask which comics, because it seems like Mysterio is a rather inconsistent character in the comics, there is no "true to the comics" version of Mysterio, because the writers have not invested much in giving him a defined personality. People have said Mysterio shouldn't kill in the film because he is not a murderer in the comics, which is not true, because I know at least one story where he kills people (Guardian Devil, I also think he has killed people during some of the Sinister Six stories). Also how is Mysterio supposed to be menacing if he is unwillng to kill, even sympathetic villains in these movies are willing to kill to achieve their goals.

If Mysterio is just some idiot who spends 20 million dollars in special effects to steal 1 million dollars from a bank, why should I care about him

In the Netflix series, Kilgrave and Kingpin weren't trying to take over the world, but they were committing crimes more serious then petty thievery, I want Mysterio to seem really menacing not just be some goofball with a gimmick.

Personally I would like to see a really menacing and unsympathetic Mysterio, to contrast all those other sympathetic villains we seen and Mysterio has another petty thief is not menacing or truly unsympathetic.

 

[Venom'sDad]

Overlord, I agree with much you are saying...I take it Mysterio is one of your favorite. In the comics, Mysterio, like most, are written so inconsistent because of the number of writers writing their version or spin on whatever character.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Nah I agree with you. People go for spider-man not the villain. You can work just about any villain into a good story with good writing. But at the end of the day it's about Peter Parker.

Anyway that said, I never suggested Mr. negative as a main villain. He's a gang leader, and a pretty badass one at that. You can easily work in Shocker as one of his goons or something. I think Mr. Negative would be a more entertaining gangster than say, Hammerhead or Silvermane. And no one gave a **** about tombstone before they used him in Spectacular. As I said before I think some lesser known villains have more potential for a better story.

except a hero is only as good as their villain... crappy villains have always made or broken a movie

 

[spideyboy_1111]

If Jessica Jones' ratings are any indication, it doesn't matter how A, B, or C-list the characters are, as long as they have the right writing and performances, it will be a hit.

Jessica Jones is a TV show though with 13 episode seasons to flesh out a character... Purple Man is also her own personal top nemesis... its completely incorrect and ignorant to compare the 2.. they really arn't comparable at all.

its like kicking off a batman movie where Zsasz is the main villain and carrying the story. Could you do it? sure, but would it be anything people wanted and would it feel like a waste of a spot ? You bet. Would the movie likely do as well as a film with Joker ? Two-Face? Mr. Freeze? Riddler? Scarecrow? probably not.

it'd be a fantastic way to shoot a franchise in the foot right out of the gate.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Now you're just being revisionist about the past. When the Guardians movie was first announced, the team was at the same place Prowler is right now. Same with Inhumans. Same with Jessica Jones. Marvel only started pushing those characters and causing awareness once the movie started coming. The same exact thing can happen to someone like Prowler.

I don't see how Prowler is a bad option. He fits right in with the smaller scale conflict that Fiege is talking about, and serves as a great parallel to a young Peter.



People were in uproar due to the quality of the movies. A good Spidey movie with someone lesser known would be better than a bad movie with a bigger name villain.



Go out onto the street and ask a random person who Mysterio is. And then ask who Prowler is. They won't know either because they're both unknown to the general audience.



AMEN. I'm not saying that I only want a lesser known character as the villain for Spidey's movie, but I'm not ruling out the fact that there are certain characters outside of the ones that constantly mentioned that could make for unique villains and stories.

im not re-visioning squat.. the GOTG roster team in the comics was getting some very good praise prior to the announcement. Do you honestly think we would have gotten a GOTG movie if the comic readers weren't liking or finding that team popular?

sorry, i can't get over how terrible these ideas are..

 

[spideyboy_1111]

All villains are unknown to the general audience

for the last time.. NO THEY ARE NOT... THE GENERAL AUDIENCE IS NOT MADE UP OF UNCULTURED, DIM WITTED BUFFOONS...

if anything is more evident than ever, fanboys, geeks, nerds.. etc.. are constantly becoming more and more main stream and popular. Hollywood is banking more and more on nostalgia more than ever.

the new TMNT movie is doing that in spades with Beebop, Rocksteady, Casey Jones, Baxter Stockman, and Krang...

do you really think the stereotypical "general audience" you speak of cares about these characters? or are hyping it? no... that's the people who grew up with the cartoons... all the generations who grew up with the cartoons.

EVERY generation has grown up with a spider-man cartoon if you're under the age of 50...

not everyone who grew up watching a cartoon stuck with the books, or bought the toys.. but they would remember the characters even if they weren't ever invested in them.. and just refer to someone like mysterio as the "magic fishbowl headed guy". And at this point in time this is likely the mass majority who make up the so called "general audience" ARE these people.

Man-Bat and Clayface have never appeared in a bat-man movie so far... and you can sure as bet majority of the audience seeing that batman film will have some familiarity even if just knowledge by name or look...