Homecoming Who should be the Villain in Spider-Man (2017)? - Part 2

[UltimateMarvel]

Mysterio would be really great for a first villain. t:

 

[harryoscop]

Ya know what I realized. Strange comes out 2016, Spider-Man out 2017. If they do Mysterio in 2017 it'll kinda just look like an evil version of Strange much like people are saying Vulture would be an evil version of Falcon. Scorpion would feel like a retread of the Lizard(if hes a mutation). And Marvel is likely not planning to use any past villains in the new solo. So honestly while I wouldnt have a problem with either vecause both are great villains. By all accounts the one that makes the most sense is Kraven. He's the most original and cant be traced to any hero...unless you count him as evil Black Panther. Would that even make sense? Nah, I stick by my statement.

That's actually a good point. And so far, most of the rumors have been pointing to Kraven.

 

[NotSoLongAgo]

Evil Dr. Strange is a stretch. They're pretty different characters

 

[younglink42]

That's actually a good point. And so far, most of the rumors have been pointing to Kraven.

I don't know if anyone remembers a rumor that came out months ago about Kraven. The site that reported it was The Daily Superhero and they gave a decent amount of info on it, but we still have to take it with a grain of salt.

 

[The Overlord]

I'm with the camp who thinks it might be good to take inspiration from Kraven's Last Hunt from the get go. However, doing that would only be able to scratch the surface of that story. Basically, the only thing that might be effective in a first film from that story is Kraven's preparation and the way he defeats Spider-Man. Also, for it to work we'd need another villain introduced, which might risk the film becoming another SM3/ASM2.

Having Spider-Man defeated so brutally in his first film might be cool I think, he'd have learned a lesson after that for sure. Him going missing would be interesting when he's studying at High School and how his supporting cast would react to that. Not to mention how Peter would have to figure out how to explain it.

Kraven taking on Peter's costume would be silly given their difference in size. Perhaps Kraven would just use the mask.

I think it would start the series with a bang. It's a small yet epic story that could be interesting to use in Peter's high school years even though that's not how it was in the comics.

A big thing about the story is how Kraven wants to prove himself better than Spider-Man by defeating someone Spider-Man couldn't. Now that would be a big challenge to portray in the first film. It would need to introduce another villain like Lizard or Scorpion and that would make the film feel too overloaded to make a tight story I think. Lizard needs more build up I think. Scorpion is another villain that we'd need to actually see the origin I think.

I love the idea of the comics where Chameleon is the one who brings Kraven to New York. I can imagine the first scenes being like the first ones in The Winter Soldier (replace Batroc with Chameleon, except Chameleon has a larger role throughout the film and just not in the first scenes), which leads to Chameleon bringing Kraven to New York to hunt Spider-Man down, because Spider-Man must not interrupt whatever Chameleon is planning.

Kraven would be motivated by Spider-Man being the ultimate hunt and test. Kraven fails the first time, which humiliates his ego and drives him even more insane. He prepares to up the ante and prove that he is better. We see some of those scenes from KLH. He buries Spider-Man, takes on the mask.

Peter Parker is missing and it's getting attention at high school as well as worrying May. Meanwhile, Spider-Man gets attention for how brutally he takes down criminals.

Then I don't know where to end it. But when Peter is back, he must find out a way to explain his absence. Both to school, his friends, May and perhaps also the police.



I don't think every villain need to have their origin shown on the big screen in real time like in all the previous films. Mysterio would be an example of that.

Comparing Strange to Mysterio is like comparing Gandalf to Criss Angel, they are only similar in a very vague way.

 

[harryoscop]

I don't know if anyone remembers a rumor that came out months ago about Kraven. The site that reported it was The Daily Superhero and they gave a decent amount of info on it, but we still have to take it with a grain of salt.

Yep, they also said Peter's enemies would get more and more fantastical as the films go on, which is an awesome idea.

Evil Dr. Strange is a stretch. They're pretty different characters

That's true, but I could see how the GA might draw a link between the two.

 

[ernesth100]

Hey it was enough for people here to keep comparing Falcon to Vulture. I'm just tryna make small talk so we have something to talk anout during the wait is all.

 

[Spidey_62]

I don't think if Kraven was used we'd see Spider-Man go through something really traumatizing like being buried alive for 2 weeks, this movie's probably gonna skewer lighter and quirkier I'm gonna say. That's just what "the biggest independent film ever" sounds like to me.

 

[younglink42]

Maybe the aftermath of Civil War could cause a villain like Kraven to appear. I don't know how Civil War will end, but I doubt it'll be happy.

 

[AvegningSpider]

I don't think if Kraven was used we'd see Spider-Man go through something really traumatizing like being buried alive for 2 weeks, this movie's probably gonna skewer lighter and quirkier I'm gonna say. That's just what "the biggest independent film ever" sounds like to me.

Kraven sounds more like Sequel Material, something awesome enough to follow up and posibilly be better and not that big to overshadow the third one.
I still hold Clash for first villain.

 

[harryoscop]

Kraven sounds more like Sequel Material, something awesome enough to follow up and posibilly be better and not that big to overshadow the third one.
I still hold Clash for first villain.

 

[Webhead2006]

overlord you may think this could end up a simple boring villain but again we dont know what villains they plan to use and what the story will be still. All i was trying to say since we know they want focus to be more with peter, and the drama of being a kid while also being a hero. That maybe the villain isnt the driving force for the film. But it is the good old parker luck side of things.

And the villain is more of a secondary role and is just a issue peter deals with from his day to day life. Just cause that could be the case doesnt mean that the villain could be a weak element of the story. Just like oh all the past films had to tie peter and the villains together directly and look at how that has turned out.

Now i do want kraven in this film series just like chameleon, vulture, mysterio, scorpion. As for origins yes some we dont need like if we do any montage type scenes i brought up in past to toss in a quick badguy just for fun. But certain ones like vulture, the goblins(as much as we hate it and in time), scorpion, and a few others we do need to have some sort of origins told. Others like the mob guys, kraven, chameleon, etc.... cant just be imply throughout the story of the film by the character or peter looking up information on said person and so forth. Ie another way we toss the bugle to help spidey out and get more out of the bugle staff characters.

Also i still in the boat to for mysterio to be first villain. As per others have said he is a totally different type of villain then all the past films have done. He has a unique set of "powers" and could lead to some great visual scenes. Plus like harry mention tie nicely to the hughes themes marvel wants and the whole power and responsibility angle and so forth.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

The thing with supervillains is they have to set up how/why they suddenly turn bad and/or super pretty quick. I liked how they did it in the Raimi movies. But I think that aspect of these movies is important to get right. Like, why/how does the bad guy suddenly get these crazy weapons/gadgets to be a criminal? It needs to be organic to the story and not just be thrown in stupidly. Getting the villains right is as important as the heroes.

and yes.. while most villains arn't "born bad" most should not be sympathetic... because ultimately they made the bad choices and many "like" being bad.

all of raimi's villains were sympathetic... even venom to a degree. Norman was probably the only one who wasnt. it was a terrible mistake to make electro in the webb film a sympathetic villain as well...

Not all villains we need to know in depth as to what makes them tick.. look at Mystique in X1... she had 1 line and it summed up why she does what she does "People like you made me afraid to go to school as a child" and that's all she needed. Not saying i want a villain who doesn't talk... but you don't need an in-depth origin... and some people are just bad eggs... the only villain in the spider-man mythos who should be very tragic is Lizard...

 

[The Overlord]

and yes.. while most villains arn't "born bad" most should not be sympathetic... because ultimately they made the bad choices and many "like" being bad.

all of raimi's villains were sympathetic... even venom to a degree. Norman was probably the only one who wasnt. it was a terrible mistake to make electro in the webb film a sympathetic villain as well...

Not all villains we need to know in depth as to what makes them tick.. look at Mystique in X1... she had 1 line and it summed up why she does what she does "People like you made me afraid to go to school as a child" and that's all she needed. Not saying i want a villain who doesn't talk... but you don't need an in-depth origin... and some people are just bad eggs... the only villain in the spider-man mythos who should be very tragic is Lizard...

Well not every villain has to be sympathetic, I wouldn't another villain like a Malekith, who wants to destroy the universe for no particular reason. A villain doesn't need to be sympathetic to be compelling, but they do need to be menacing and have a defined personality.

That is why I suggested Mysterio should be a ruthless, fame obsessed, narcissistic psychopath who is willing to both play nasty mind games and drop a lot of bodies to gain fame for himself. Make him a villain you really hate, go for a truly unsympathetic villain, because some moron who uses expense tech to rob banks is not what I would define as truly unsympathetic.

That is more compelling and makes for a foe that can give Spidey a character arc, rather then him bring some idiot who spends 20 million dollars on special effects to steal 1 million dollars from a bank.

overlord you may think this could end up a simple boring villain but again we dont know what villains they plan to use and what the story will be still. All i was trying to say since we know they want focus to be more with peter, and the drama of being a kid while also being a hero. That maybe the villain isnt the driving force for the film. But it is the good old parker luck side of things.

And the villain is more of a secondary role and is just a issue peter deals with from his day to day life. Just cause that could be the case doesnt mean that the villain could be a weak element of the story. Just like oh all the past films had to tie peter and the villains together directly and look at how that has turned out.

And Malekith was a secondary villain who was just a distraction in the second Thor movie and the fact that he is lamest villain in the entire MCU really dragged that film down, do we really want this Spidey movie to have another lame Malekith style villain? Any villain from any Spidey movie was a better villain then Malekith.

A villain doesn't need to have ties to Peter's past to be compelling, but they need to do something besides rob banks for 2 hours to be compelling.

Now i do want kraven in this film series just like chameleon, vulture, mysterio, scorpion. As for origins yes some we dont need like if we do any montage type scenes i brought up in past to toss in a quick badguy just for fun. But certain ones like vulture, the goblins(as much as we hate it and in time), scorpion, and a few others we do need to have some sort of origins told. Others like the mob guys, kraven, chameleon, etc.... cant just be imply throughout the story of the film by the character or peter looking up information on said person and so forth. Ie another way we toss the bugle to help spidey out and get more out of the bugle staff characters.

Well I don't need to have every villain to have a detailed orgin, but every villain who is going to be a Big bad has to be compelling in some way and how is a guy who robs banks and does nothing else and has no redeeming traits compelling in the slightest? Simple crooks should be henchmen, not the Big Bad of the film. What would the stakes be with such a character, why should I care whether they succeed or fail in their objectives? Spidey should be about saving lives, not saving the bank's insurance rate from going higher.

I need a villain with more interesting motives then "woke up one morning and started robbing banks".

Also i still in the boat to for mysterio to be first villain. As per others have said he is a totally different type of villain then all the past films have done. He has a unique set of "powers" and could lead to some great visual scenes. Plus like harry mention tie nicely to the hughes themes marvel wants and the whole power and responsibility angle and so forth.

But why would he be compelling beyond his gimmick? If he is just some moron who spends 20 million dollars to steal one million dollars from a bank and doesn't do anything else, his actions never build towards a climax, why should I care about him, you describing a character who is just a gimmick and nothing else and that is just boring in my opinion.

You said a fame obsessed psychopath Mysterio is not "true to the comics", but I argue that Mysterio is such an undefined character that my version is true to Mysterio in how he is written in some of the stories he has appeared, Mysterio in the comics is not a very compelling and constant character in the comics, that there is no such thing as a "true to the comics" version in terms of characterization, you have to pick and choose which character elements are best, because the writers usually just write him with his gimmick in mind and his characterization comes in at a distant second. Why is Mysterio a compelling character in the comics? Because all you are describing is an interesting gimmick, not an interesting character.

 

[meanmc]

Yep, they also said Peter's enemies would get more and more fantastical as the films go on, which is an awesome idea.

That would also fit in the story what i heard about the Scorpion as main villian.

As Peter is just 16 and they want to develop all things from there, it is pretty possible, that my sources are right...

 

[harryoscop]

That would also fit in the story what i heard about the Scorpion as main villian.

As Peter is just 16 and they want to develop all things from there, it is pretty possible, that my sources are right...

The rumor said "his enemies will get more and more fantastical throughout the trilogy", so the first villain would have to be someone non-fantastic like Kraven. Scorpion is fantastical. Also Peter is 15 in the solo film.

I think your sources were wrong.

 

[Majik1387]

Any update on the rumor of Michael Keaton being eyed to play the Scorpion?

 

[NotSoLongAgo]

Shocker pls

 

[NotSoLongAgo]

Any update on the rumor of Michael Keaton being eyed to play the Scorpion?

Honestly that'd be dumb. Keaton makes sense as JJJ or even norman but Scorpion is random as hell

 

[meanmc]

The rumor said "his enemies will get more and more fantastical throughout the trilogy", so the first villain would have to be someone non-fantastic like Kraven. Scorpion is fantastical. Also Peter is 15 in the solo film.

I think your sources were wrong.

You are not even know, what the story is... so, stay cool.. if i write, that it fits, then i am surely not wrong
But i will not mention it, not to spoil something.

I will let you know, if the sources were right, if we all know, who the villian is - if it is Scorpion, maybe i will receive some kind words from you

I think, what i heard makes totally sence... would fit as beginning, as Spidey is still a teen. We will see...
If that is really the story, it is very "small" and simple, but really great, and a typical "starting point" for many movies to follow. Really great idea - i hope it is true.

And with the age - that was MY guess, as i thought, that he is 15 in "Civil War", in his solo outing, he would be 16 (then)...

AND - HUNTING is also what i heard... but it isn`t Kraven who hunts
Just as a hint...

 

[Majik1387]

Honestly that'd be dumb. Keaton makes sense as JJJ or even norman but Scorpion is random as hell

Not sure how it would be dumb or random but no update? Okay.

 

[harryoscop]

You are not even know, what the story is... so, stay cool.. if i write, that it fits, then i am surely not wrong
But i will not mention it, not to spoil something.

I will let you know, if the sources were right, if we all know, who the villian is - if it is Scorpion, maybe i will receive some kind words from you

I think, what i heard makes totally sence... would fit as beginning, as Spidey is still a teen. We will see...

It doesn't fit with the summary you just gave in your post

 

[meanmc]

It doesn't fit with the summary you just gave in your post

Sorry, i added some... just check please.
Believe me, it fits
Very good... i do not want to mention more...

We will see..
I will write, if the sources were wrong, no problem... lets wait

 

[harryoscop]

Fair enough. So i'm guessing Scorpion is created to hunt down Spider-Man?

 

[Web-Head]

I really hope it's Scorpion