Homecoming Who should be the Villain in Spider-Man (2017)? - Part 3

[SlamAdams]

I would have a in media res opening of Spidey vs Shocker (or another rogue who may not be able to deliver a whole movie but could serve as cool visual). During that fight, Dr. Smythe is a bystander, gets paralyzed as collateral damage, and becomes a mastermind to take down Spider-Man. Scorpion is the imminent threat whose strings are pulled by Smythe, setting him up to be Spider-Slayer down the line.

This way they have a character who hasn't been seen before. They have a villain who is a goon/thug kind of threat, a real threat but one a sequel can out-do, so to speak. Plus they have an overall franchise narrative threat they can invest in.

Or Beetle, who is like a blue-collar criminal version of Tony Stark and is bent out of shape that he can't get Iron Man's attention. He just has Spider-Man's. (I wrote that in another thread, but I meant for it to be added here)

 

[Eddie]

I would have a in media res opening of Spidey vs Shocker (or another rogue who may not be able to deliver a whole movie but could serve as cool visual). During that fight, Dr. Smythe is a bystander, gets paralyzed as collateral damage, and becomes a mastermind to take down Spider-Man. Scorpion is the imminent threat whose strings are pulled by Smythe, setting him up to be Spider-Slayer down the line.

This way they have a character who hasn't been seen before. They have a villain who is a goon/thug kind of threat, a real threat but one a sequel can out-do, so to speak. Plus they have an overall franchise narrative threat they can invest in.

Or Beetle, who is like a blue-collar criminal version of Tony Stark and is bent out of shape that he can't get Iron Man's attention. He just has Spider-Man's. (I wrote that in another thread, but I meant for it to be added here)

Love the idea of opening with an action scene (I'm pulling for that as well), but the original Beetle might not be an option. He was a Human Torch villain first.

 

[Webhead2006]

Ya I said it many times be great to do a James Bond type opening with a more lower threat guy and start film in a fun action scene. Or be it in middle of film like we get with most these hero films doing a montage moment. To add more characters and build the world out.

 

[SlamAdams]

Love the idea of opening with an action scene (I'm pulling for that as well), but the original Beetle might not be an option. He was a Human Torch villain first.

He wouldn't be the first Marvel villain who debuted against the FF in the MCU.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

He wouldn't be the first Marvel villain who debuted against the FF in the MCU.

Who else did?

 

[SlamAdams]

Who else did?

Ronan the Accuser and the Inhumans. The Kree in general really

 

[Eddie]

The Kree and Inhumans did, but they were specifically excluded for a separate film package. Beetle probably wasn't excluded, though it would be cool if he was.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Ronan the Accuser and the Inhumans

I guess that explain why they put him in Guardians because he swapping one team for another to fight.

 

[Mike Murdock]

That's not how it works. It isn't a choice who they can use (so they can't go "this is another team, so close enough"), it's a matter of who owns what.

It doesn't seem to specifically be who they appeared with first, although first appearance certainly seems to be a factor.

I just wish Marvel would publicly release the document that says who owns what. At a minimum, I'm sure their shareholders would like to know, but it would be great just to end all the speculation.

 

[SlamAdams]

That's not how it works. It isn't a choice who they can use (so they can't go "this is another team, so close enough"), it's a matter of who owns what.

It doesn't seem to specifically be who they appeared with first, although first appearance certainly seems to be a factor.

I just wish Marvel would publicly release the document that says who owns what. At a minimum, I'm sure their shareholders would like to know, but it would be great just to end all the speculation.

It's probably not that easy. I'm sure the contracts have a lot of legal jargon that can be interpreted.

 

[Venom'sDad]

I've got five bucks that says they're not using Venom in this one! Any takers?

I would take that bet...I don't see it happening; especially with Avi involvement.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

Part of the charm of Mysterio in my opinion is that he's smart enough to actually create those things without real super powers. Not to bash on your ideas (to each their own, you know), but I wouldn't be a fan of this.

There needs to be a solid explanation for HOW he creates those machines and holograms though. I think it needs to be like Quentin creates it and comes up with all the ideas, but someone very rich finances it. Because I can't picture Quentin himself being such a rich dude.

Why he needs to be smart enough, Mysterio also needs to be extremely creative as well which still fits in with my take on the character with him being creative.

How he can create the illusions is pretty much my biggest issue with Mysterio. Is he getting money from the same guy that gives Riddler money for all of Riddler's deathstraps and races in the Arkham games lol.

To me, magic undercuts the character. It makes him someone completely different. Both have a risk of coming off cheesy, but it's a different kind of cheesy that doesn't fit as easily in Spider-Man's world, which is a world of science.

Make him a practical effects guy who lost his job to CGI. That would feel very timely in today's world.

While I do like the concept of a practical effects guy in today's world; how is getting the money to financial all of his illusions and stuff?

Personally I feel Mysterio works perfectly in Spider-Man's world for the same reason the Mandarin works in Stark's. We have magic and science. 2 opposites.

Most of Spider-Man's villains are already very sciencey and can build stuff of their own. Doc Ock, Green Goblin, Vulture, and Shocker uses science tech. Electro, Rhino, Sandman, Scorpion, and Lizard are men who were science accidents.

When you look at Spider-Man villains like Kingpin, Kraven, Mobius, Carnage, and yes Venom; some of the reason why they are so great is because they are different from other Spider-Man villains.

Kingpin isn't a scientist but a mob boss.
Kraven is the world's greatest big game hunter.
Mobius is a vampire.
Carnage is a serial killer.
Venom... has a cool design and is an alien parasite (Eddie Brock himself sucks and isn't interesting)

To me, having Mysterio use magic makes him stand alone as well as makes sense on how he could do all the illusions (don't he could afford practical effects to do his illusions), and story wise it makes a lot of sense. Man with this magic power uses it for money. Like how Peter used his powers for money at first.

 

[MichaelChen]

Why he needs to be smart enough, Mysterio also needs to be extremely creative as well which still fits in with my take on the character with him being creative.

How he can create the illusions is pretty much my biggest issue with Mysterio. Is he getting money from the same guy that gives Riddler money for all of Riddler's deathstraps and races in the Arkham games lol.



While I do like the concept of a practical effects guy in today's world; how is getting the money to financial all of his illusions and stuff?

Personally I feel Mysterio works perfectly in Spider-Man's world for the same reason the Mandarin works in Stark's. We have magic and science. 2 opposites.

Iron Man vs The Mandarin isn't science vs magic. It's INTELLECT and money vs intellect and MONEY. The Mandarin has seemingly limitless money, military and political power. Stark is rich, but his biggest resource is his super-genius intellect.

Most of Spider-Man's villains are already very sciencey and can build stuff of their own. Doc Ock, Green Goblin, Vulture, and Shocker uses science tech. Electro, Rhino, Sandman, Scorpion, and Lizard are men who were science accidents.

When you look at Spider-Man villains like Kingpin, Kraven, Mobius, Carnage, and yes Venom; some of the reason why they are so great is because they are different from other Spider-Man villains.

Kingpin isn't a scientist but a mob boss.
Kraven is the world's greatest big game hunter.
Mobius is a vampire.
Carnage is a serial killer.
Venom... has a cool design and is an alien parasite (Eddie Brock himself sucks and isn't interesting)

To me, having Mysterio use magic makes him stand alone as well as makes sense on how he could do all the illusions (don't he could afford practical effects to do his illusions), and story wise it makes a lot of sense. Man with this magic power uses it for money. Like how Peter used his powers for money at first.

Morbius is a bat, Kraven is someone who hunts animals. Most of Spider-Man's villains are related to animals in some way. The rest tend to be nerds or bullies, amplified versions of the people Parker would face in high-school. In other words, he fights a blend of evil Spider-Men and evil Peter Parkers.

 

[Webhead2006]

well looks like newsarama did another update to who they like to see spidey face first list. Here it is for any one to check out:
http://www.newsarama.com/24974-10-killer-candidates-for-spider-man-movie-s-big-bad.html

 

[ernesth100]

Top three on the list Kraven, Kingpin and Scorpion.

Scorpion is a definate yes for me. Especially if they have Jameson help with his creation to destroy and expose Spiderman. But it backfires on Jameson and Jameson is forced to let the man he hates save him. I could easily see a movie on that.


Kingpin is doable, it would give us a chance to have Netflix Daredevil verse connected with MCU Spiderman Verse. Maybe if we're highly lucky have a DD and Spider-Man team up moment or at the very least a small cameo where DD meets Spidey in his movie. Kingpin could be the man who employed the criminal who shot Uncle Ben. Or it could be a nonpersonal connection where Peter is just a vigilante stopping Fisks operations and Fisk wants to stop him. Maybe hiring a villain like Rhino, Shocker or Kraven to take out Spidey.


Speaking of Kraven who was #1 on the list, this actually makes alot of sense and has alot of potential. Kraven and Mysterio in my opinion have the exact amount of potential to give Peter a challenge. Make him have to out think and not just "punch harder". With Kraven he has weapons, an experienced tracker and hunter, probably special knock out darts and sleep gas. He's dangerous, Peter will have to be on the look out after the first confrontation(which he'll probably loose or barely escape from being killed) due to being cocky and thinking Kraven just another normal human with a gun and some weapons.


They can also go the Ultimate route and have Kraven loose at first but then come back with a serum that enhances his strength and agility. Making him a match for Peters strength forcing Peter to outthink him instead of outmatch.

 

[PT9357]

I'm almost certain the villain isn't going to be Mysterio, mainly because I get the feeling that Mysterio is going to be the protagonist in Lord and Miller's animated movie. Rejected special effects designer wants revenge on the world by pulling off illusions, imagine the visuals/comedic direction a fully-animated movie could pull off. Mysterio is the epitome of a villain in a family film.

That's just my gut feeling though, and while I'm talking about guesses - I'm almost sure that Vulture will be the primary protagonist.

The enemy to a "coming of age" story should be either A) another teen, or B) an older fellow - a la Vulture or Kraven.

But at the end of the day, as much as people love saying "Marvel's Spider-Man" - this is still Sony's film. And Sony loves dumping an absurd amount of production value into Spider-Man. Not to mention how this is Sony's 2nd attempt at a reboot, the last thing they want to do is lower the scale of the film and have Spider-Man duel Vincent D'Onofrio. Kraven isn't much of a visual excitement either, as he relies more on instinct rather than technology. Refreshing? Sure, but it's not something to get children jumping off their seats.

So by the process of elimination, If I had to put money down I'd end up picking Vulture with Scorpion as a close second. But don't get me wrong, I'd like to see Kraven as he would pose a great threat to a teenage Peter.

 

[AvegningSpider]

I still say the Spot, he would be a visual excitement and have a bit of comedy.

 

[Batsfan1]

Enver Gjoak is hardly comparable. It was an extremely minor role and he then moved to a TV show that, unfortunately, nobody watched. It's easy to justify the similarity of appearance anyway because you could say one is the ancestor of the other.

Although, [BLACKOUT]that might theoretically make that cop Peggy Carter's grandson, which would be an unexpected twist[/BLACKOUT].

Ronan isn't really strongly recognizable as a character himself either and would be basically indistinguishable from Mysterio without the makeup a slightly different voice.

God bless you! God bless everyone!

 

[Webhead2006]

ya i said it before i really do hope in time we see spidey and kingpin tango as we finally have them both in the save universe and all that. I agree with the story for scorpion would make a solid film plot and a great way to add good old jjj hijinks and fun out of that. Still cant wait to see which lucky foe is our new first villain. i doubt the animated film be about mysterio i still bet the animated film will likely be a older spidey and a sinister six film. Or trying to use one of the many silly ideas they had floating prior to the marvel deal.

 

[Dark Raven]

I want Marvel to embrace the comic costumes of Spider-Man's villains. If we get Shocker, I want to see him in brown and yellow with the quilted texture and full head mask. If we get Electro ever again, I want him in green and yellow with the lightning bolt mask. If we get Green Goblin again, he needs to look like he's wearing the Halloween mask, in purple and green and those elf boots.

No beating about the bush and being ashamed of the source material. Marvel haven't given as much attention to the villains' looks as the heroes. Do some of these look ridiculous? Of course, but why do everyone have to be so serious and boring as not to look ridiculous at times? If you're a badass villain doing evil things and you dress ridiculously, then some might laugh at first, but they won't be laughing for long when their lives are at stake.

 

[PeterBenParker]

Given the look of Spidey, we're bound to see more villains look a lot more classic.

 

[Spider-Gnome]

I definitely want to see Marvel handle a classic Green Goblin at some point!

 

[Dark Raven]

And Goblin's mask features should move as well and not be static like the Power Ranger version in SM1. And no mutated human face like ASM2.

And really, some of the villains need to look silly anyway, otherwise Spidey won't be able to make fun of them. If they all look cool, then Spidey will just think they look cool too. If Spidey is mocking the silly outfits along with the audience, then he has pre-empted their response, and it will be more accepted.

 

[AvegningSpider]

A Goblin combination from the Ross redesign and the Ross drawing of the classic suit.

 

[Dark Raven]

Do you think any villain should wear underpants on the outside of their suit? At least Spidey can make fun of it. Someone has to do it. Maybe Electro? It can't be that everyone tries to look cool.

The Green Goblin could get away with it and still look scary.