Transformers Why all the hate?

[ShadowBoxing]

I think they pretty much nailed it, but the only flaw I could find is that it seemed to be more about the humans than the robots. Which got boring after awhile. But I guess they were saving it for the climax, which kicked several asses btw.

Some people complain about it not being close enough to the cartoon, only a fool would go in expecting a perfect carbon copy of the cartoon. If it was just the same as the cartoon, wouldn't it be boring since we've seen it all before? They were very creative (in a good way) yet still managed to remain true to the basic formula. Giant fighting robots.

Why all the hate. Well over at the Allspark, a Transformers forum, with posters who know Transformers like the backs of their hands, no hate, none, whatsoever...check it out (A vain attempt by a hater...read the responses:http://www.allspark.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=41643)

The fact is, the Hype has a very, very narrow TF fanbase, most of whom have vague recollections at best of the TF cartoon. They only believe Transformers to be beholden to a cartoon that got cancelled over two decades ago, a cartoon, truth be told, that wasn't very good.

If you've decided in your head that G1 is great, and anything after is crap, and giving Optimus flames is a horrible idea (hope you catch the irony there), then this movie would never please you.

Transformers is a toyline first and foremost. All cartoons have existed to push the toys and usually are written after the toylines have been developed. It's the reason that Transformers tends to be plagued with inconsistencies and plot devices.

Bay delivered, in my opinion, something that structurally made more sense, but still preserved the hokeyness and cheese of the original cartoon/comic. In my opinion, it's one of the most inspired adaptations to date. Every bit as fun as the original movie, and tens times as spectacular.

 

[Super_Ludacris]

lol@ a Transformers Forum called the All Spark

 

[ShadowBoxing]

lol@ a Transformers Forum called the All Spark

Actually the All spark got it's name from that website (which got it's name from Beast Wars/Beast Machines), not the other way around.

 

[Knightsaber Priss]

I hate this movie because it makes the worst episode of the G1 cartoon look good.

 

[ShadowBoxing]

I hate this movie because it makes the worst episode of the G1 cartoon look good.

Tell me what that episode is, because I know the top three, and it's not worse than the top twenty five.

Transformers 2007 at it's worst moments is better than G1 at it's best. That show was so logically inconsistent and bad at times it's literally unwatchable. I mean hell try making through an AKOM cartoon without winsing a million times, or try watching B.O.T without losing faith in humanity...it's simply not possible.

You should know a shows bad when THE CONVENTION DEDICATED TO THE TOYS has the MST3K guys voice over most of the shows noteable episodes.

 

[Jake Cassidy]

Tell me what that episode is, because I know the top three, and it's not worse than the top twenty five.

Transformers 2007 at it's worst moments is better than G1 at it's best. That show was so logically inconsistent and bad at times it's literally unwatchable. I mean hell try making through an AKOM cartoon without winsing a million times, or try watching B.O.T without losing faith in humanity...it's simply not possible.

You should know a shows bad when THE CONVENTION DEDICATED TO THE TOYS has the MST3K guys voice over most of the shows noteable episodes.

You're being a bit harsh on the cartoon. It's for kids, you know. You think they care about logic or consistency.

 

[Chris B]

I don't really understand the belief that the Transformers movie drasticly deviated from the cartoon. Granted the TF's, aside from Optimus Prime and Jazz, looked a lot different, and the changes to the story that were made, it still got the basics right. And I do think that the essence was preserved. If people want to see a beloved 80's cartoon being rapped, then they should take a look at the Lorenzo Di Bonaventura's GI Joe adaption.

 

[HHHDan]

...There is no one original for the Transformers, by my count, at current there are over 25 continuities, 10 or so which could be considered "G1". ...
Transformers is a garbage can term. Most people who think the movie didn't "resemble the source material" only have vague and incomplete recollections of it. Transformers has been about changing things since the beginning...

I know there has been multiple versions of it... And that is precisely the problem: They all suck!! Changing things have always been the bigest mistake (Which is why the Beast wars-Beast Machines series was the only one that was worthy of that original: It tried to follow in the steps instead of reinventing it all). The G2 series was also about changing things (Changing everything, actuially) and it was the worse thing that could of happened to it! (... I won't even get started with those ugly Armada/Energon series! Yuck!)

The fact of the matter is that the '80s cartoon is what started it it all in terms phenomenon and it is that one that should have been most respected (And I DO remember it well since I have it all on DVD for my "recollection" )

 

[HHHDan]

I don't really understand the belief that the Transformers movie drasticly deviated from the cartoon. Granted the TF's, aside from Optimus Prime and Jazz, looked a lot different, and the changes to the story that were made, it still got the basics right. And I do think that the essence was preserved. If people want to see a beloved 80's cartoon being rapped, then they should take a look at the Lorenzo Di Bonaventura's GI Joe adaption.

Say what?... OK, lets start a list of things that they missed from the original (In no particular order):

#1- Starscream does not try to take megatron's place.

#2- the appearances of the robots (Star scream looked like a Go-Bot)

#3- The vehiclar mode of bumble bee, ratchet, Iron hide (Could be counted as three)

#4- the color patterns of Star scream, iron hide and ratchet.

#5- Where in the cartoon was there that stupid story line about the sea captain and the glasses?

#6- (A big one): No Ark!!!!

#7- No falling on Earth millions of years ago and being awaken in the present.

#8- The ability to morph into a different vehicular mode at will (Looks more like magic then technology!)

#9- No Soundwave! (An important and popular character like that should of been in the 1st movie; it's like making an X-Men movie without Wolverine, for exemple)

#10- Change the main human character from Spike to Sam (... Let's make a Fantastic four movie and call Victor Von Doom: John McSmith)

#11- Scorponok, Black out, Frenzik, Bone Crusher, baricade: Not in the G1 cartoon.

#12- Cybertron looked like an electric astroid; not like the technologically ravaged planet of the cartoon (Corusant, in Star Wars I, looked more like Cybertron then that)

... That's just off the top of my head... Anyone who wants to continue the list: Have fun!

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

OOOOOO I love these list.

#1- Starscream does not try to take megatron's place.

He did'nt have too he already had command the 4 million years that Megatron was gone.And to me it looked like Screamer was one of the jets that attacked him in the end.

#2- the appearances of the robots (Star scream looked like a Go-Bot)

I saw no resemblance to a Gobot in Bay's Starscream.His face looked more like Waspernator from Beast Wars.

#3- The vehiclar mode of bumble bee, ratchet, Iron hide (Could be counted as three)

None of the characters had alt mode's that matched their G1 alt-modes.I really dont see the point in pointing out these 3 characters.

#4- the color patterns of Star scream, iron hide and ratchet.

Well Starscream's and Ironhide's color pattern's were closer to their original Diaclone color pattern's.

#6- (A big one): No Ark!!!!

Not as big as you make it seem.The original Cartoon had "No Ark" ether.As a matter of fact the original G1 toon naver named ether the Autobot's ship or that of the Decepticon's.

The name "ARK" was used in the G1 Marvel comic book first [ which deviated from the G1 toon one many levels] and then used in the Beast War's toon that attached it retroactivily to the G1 toon.

And I dont think those pods they showed up in are ment for long distance travel.The Ark may be docked just outside are planetary system.

#7- No falling on Earth millions of years ago and being awaken in the present.

That was what happened to Megatron so you really cant say that it didnt happen in the Bay movie it just wasnt in large numbers.

#8- The ability to morph into a different vehicular mode at will (Looks more like magic then technology!)

All they did was make the technology part of their bodies.Not very different.

#9- No Soundwave! (An important and popular character like that should of been in the 1st movie; it's like making an X-Men movie without Wolverine, for exemple)

There is a difference between Wolverine and Soundwave.Wolverine is not one of the original X-men while Soundwave is one of the original Decepticon's.

But I see your point.

#10- Change the main human character from Spike to Sam (... Let's make a Fantastic four movie and call Victor Von Doom: John McSmith)

That's an exageration.I never really felt that G1 Spike's real name was Spike.I always felt that it was a knick name in the first place.

Spike is a name givven to Dogs not children.

#11-Scorponok, Black out, Frenzik, Bone Crusher, baricade: Not in the G1 cartoon.

Damn your G1 information is way off here.All the name's givven to all of the Bay movie robots were name from G1.

Scorponok, Frenzy and Bonecrusher were all in the G1 cartoon.

Bonecrusher was one of the Construction's.
http://www.tfu.info/1985/Decepticon/Bonecrusher/bonecrusher.htm

Scorponok was the Decepticon Headmaster commander
http://www.tfu.info/1987/Decepticon/Scorponok/scorponok.htm

And Frenzy was one of Soundwaves little cassets which is why I'm shocked you got wrong because you like Soundwave so much.
http://www.tfu.info/1984/Decepticon/Frenzy/frenzy.htm

Barricade and Blackout were also name's used in the G1 toyline but the toon was canceled long before the figures were ever released.Both were Micro masters.

Barricade: http://www.tfu.info/1990/Decepticon/Barricade/barricade.htm
Blackout: http://www.tfu.info/1990/Decepticon/Blackout/blackout.htm

... That's just off the top of my head... Anyone who wants to continue the list: Have fun!

I agree that Bay's movie took a different course then the G1 toon and I wish it was more true to the G1 mythos but as you can see you were wrong in some of your points.

If you want to hate on Bay's movie because it was'nt G1 enough then please post some valid points to complaine about.

It looks like your nit picking.

 

[Sugarculted]

 

[andurilelessar]

#3- The vehiclar mode of bumble bee, ratchet, Iron hide (Could be counted as three)

#4- the color patterns of Star scream, iron hide and ratchet.

OK for #3 I'm sure that seeing bumblebee as a yellow VW Bug wouldnt be ******ed and I see no other problems with Ratchet and Ironhide Oh and for #4, A White F-22 Raptor painted white with red pin stripes would have blended in nicly with the rest of the air force. What are you trying to make a guide to make the movie worse?t:

 

[WarBlade]

#10- Change the main human character from Spike to Sam (... Let's make a Fantastic four movie and call Victor Von Doom: John McSmith)

Yeah, lets have a movie set in the real world where the human characters are named Spike and Spark Plug...

While we're at it how about a multi-tonne robot that transforms into into a human-sized pistol, audio cassettes that transform into robots, ridiculous '80's rock made-for-cartoon anthems and a magic disappearing trailer...

Seriously, if you want to watch the kiddie cartoon, go and watch the kiddie cartoon, but expecting a live-action movie of today to have your favourite trappings of children's entertainment from the '80's is just plain dopey.

 

[Jake Cassidy]

sto ko vor 2000. Wolverine was not an original X-Man.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

sto ko vor 2000. Wolverine was not an original X-Man.

Are you correcting my gramer???? Because thats what I said.

There is a difference between Wolverine and Soundwave.Wolverine is not one of the original X-men while Soundwave is one of the original Decepticon's.

But I see your point.

Other then a gramer infraction [which is questionable] my facts are still 100%

 

[Jake Cassidy]

I apologise. I misread. I think I need glasses.

I will correct you on one thing, though. It's GRAMMAR, not gramer. t:

 

[HHHDan]

The point of the list was that there are many changes (In rebuttal of someone else's post which seemed to claim that it was virtually the same)and many of your answers seem to confirm it; perhaps they seem trivial to some but I find that they disconnected me from the movie and kept me from enjoying it (... Besides the lame potty humour, the ridiculous-cliche army dumb-dumbs and the lack of gripping dialogues... but that is a whole other conversation).

To your answers I would only say this:

#1- Saying he "didn't have too" prove the point that it was a break from the original; plus If he had the power he wanted, why participate in rescuing Megatron? Doesn't fit the G1 character.

#2- The point was more that it didn't look at all like the G1 version (Another break); not even close. The "Go-Bot" comparison might be another debate all together but the bulky silhouette, to my opinion, is reminiscent of those bulky Go-Bots.

#3- I picked those 3 names because they really broke away from the original vehicular mode; I can concede that Optimus was a kind of truck, Jazz a similar sports car (Even if not the same) and star scream a Jet... I was being reasonable in my argumentation; pardon the laps in judgement! Again the point was the major break from the blue prints.

#4- Diaclones?... Who cares about the old diaclones? Did they make the spider-man outfit with the loose webbing underneath the armpits? No! Because even if it was the original design, the one we know best and identify to is the following, web-less costume we all recognise. But again that concedes that there was a change.

#5... Was skipped

#6- The Ark might not have had a name in the G1 series: But it still existed. There was a nameless ship, we now identify as the Ark. Name or no name: It was a part of the myth and is missing none the less from the movie.

#7- Happened to one decepticon... Happened to 2 dozen (+/-) autobots and Decepticon.
Crashed at the frigid pole... Crashed in a desert-like part of the USA.
Crashed by itself.... Crashed within the Ark.
Can you really tell me with a straight face that there is no difference; or even that the movie respected the spirit of the story line? I find that hard to believe.

#8- On a side note, I would ask: Why do they need to "Transform" if they can simply "Morph" into something else? It is 2 very different phenomenon. But, more to the point:
In the series, they were physically manipulated and changed into their new alternate forms; they were virtually rebuild. The scan was only to get blue prints to follow and mimic. When you see bumblebee suddenly changing from one model car to another one within a fraction of a second, it looks more akin to Merlin "poofing" himself into a rabbit, in the disney cartoon, then an actual, believable technology.

#9 ... Sometimes, to make a point understood, you have to "Go big"; hence the Wolverine example. But I guess we agree on that one: It makes a difference.

#10- Your right: Spike is not the best name out there and I'll even concede that it has always sounded like a nickname. But question, then: Why not use the nickname AS a nickname? Perfectly acceptable.
And besides, silly names are not uncommon in these sort of stories: Victor Von DOOM, is a good exemple. But regardless of whether we like them or not, again, the point was the break from the original.

#11- Aww come on dude! Everything else you put forward, even if I don't agreed with it, had some sound bases... But this one? The bonecrusher of the constructicon and the one from the movie were two totally different characters that had nothing to do with one another (Different). The Scorpinok of the series doesn't appear until way after Optimus' death and the movie version is not a head master (Different again). And Frenzy of the movie a boom box while the cartoon was a tape; ok, there and "audio" connection, but, still major difference... Plus the tape version did not laugh all the time like the psycho weasel from Who framed Roger Rabbit!

#12- ... skipped

Look: If those changes were good for you, then, precisely : Good for you! But on the pure argumentation of whether or not Transformers the movie was a good or bad adaptation of the original materials... Let put it this way: In the spectrum of bad to good adaptations, at one end you have "Sin City" and close to the other end you have Transformers. Try and guess which is at the Good end of the spectrum and which is not?

That is all I am saying!

Cheers!

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

I apologise. I misread. I think I need glasses.

I will correct you on one thing, though. It's GRAMMAR, not gramer. t:

Well I never claimed my spelling was top nocht:

 

[Jake Cassidy]

Well I never claimed my spelling was top nocht:

Spelling is the only thing I'm good at.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

YAY!!!!!!!!!!! An other list.

#1- Saying he "didn't have too" prove the point that it was a break from the original; plus If he had the power he wanted, why participate in rescuing Megatron? Doesn't fit the G1 character.

Because for Starscream it wasnt about rescuing Megatron.....it was all about finding the cube himself.If you read the novel for the movie or any of the prequeal novels you would see that he had no plans for finding Megatron but most of the troops under his command were very loyal to Megatron.

Blackout and Deverstator in particular were very loyal to Megatron and pushed for finding him.

And besides there are a few G1 episodes showing Starscream pretending to show consern for Megatron for one of his own reasons.The same can be said for Bay's Starscream.

#4- Diaclones?... Who cares about the old diaclones? Did they make the spider-man outfit with the loose webbing underneath the armpits? No! Because even if it was the original design, the one we know best and identify to is the following, web-less costume we all recognise. But again that concedes that there was a change.

I care about the Diaclones and I would have loved to see the webs in the arm pits.Wether the no web arm pits costume is more recognised is debatable....the design comes back about ever 10 years or so.

It was used last in the late 90's so its due for a return.

#5... Was skipped

If one or more is skipped is because I had no comment.

#6- The Ark might not have had a name in the G1 series: But it still existed. There was a nameless ship, we now identify as the Ark. Name or no name: It was a part of the myth and is missing none the less from the movie.

I can agree with the fact that it was missing from Bay's movie but considering the route he went I cant see how it's inclustion would have changed the feel of the film.

#7- Happened to one decepticon... Happened to 2 dozen (+/-) autobots and Decepticon.
Crashed at the frigid pole... Crashed in a desert-like part of the USA.
Crashed by itself.... Crashed within the Ark.
Can you really tell me with a straight face that there is no difference; or even that the movie respected the spirit of the story line? I find that hard to believe.

Well the Autobot ship did not crash in "desert-like part of the USA".The ship crashed 4 million years before the birth of the USA.

As for the second half of this statement......at least they didnt completly ignore the the original G1 crashing story.At least they gave us a smell of it.

Bay gave us at least 2 "nod's" to the original G1 arrival story.
[1] Megatron crash lands
[2] it was 4 million years ago

2 refrances to the original G1 version of it is better then nothing.

#8- On a side note, I would ask: Why do they need to "Transform" if they can simply "Morph" into something else? It is 2 very different phenomenon. But, more to the point:
In the series, they were physically manipulated and changed into their new alternate forms; they were virtually rebuild. The scan was only to get blue prints to follow and mimic. When you see bumblebee suddenly changing from one model car to another one within a fraction of a second, it looks more akin to Merlin "poofing" himself into a rabbit, in the disney cartoon, then an actual, believable technology.

When was the last time you saw the first episode of the G1 series????

They were "NOT" physically manipulated and changed into their new alternate forms.A beem of light from Teletran 1 hit them and that was it.

The only one to be "physically manipulated" as you called it was Skywarp and it was only to re-attach a missing arm and a few other parts.

Here look. time frame 0842
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wJ16d-qpBEE

So it seems that its no different then what Bay's TF's seemed to be able to do with their bodies.

Bay's TF's scan and change

Original G1....Teletran scans and then sends a beem of light to TF's that change them.

Bay just took out the middle man.

#10- Your right: Spike is not the best name out there and I'll even concede that it has always sounded like a nickname. But question, then: Why not use the nickname AS a nickname? Perfectly acceptable.
And besides, silly names are not uncommon in these sort of stories: Victor Von DOOM, is a good exemple. But regardless of whether we like them or not, again, the point was the break from the original.

We might still see the nickname in the future.

#11- Aww come on dude! Everything else you put forward, even if I don't agreed with it, had some sound bases... But this one? The bonecrusher of the constructicon and the one from the movie were two totally different characters that had nothing to do with one another (Different). The Scorpinok of the series doesn't appear until way after Optimus' death and the movie version is not a head master (Different again). And Frenzy of the movie a boom box while the cartoon was a tape; ok, there and "audio" connection, but, still major difference... Plus the tape version did not laugh all the time like the psycho weasel from Who framed Roger Rabbit!

First I never said they were the same characters....just that the name's were G1 names.Now on to the rest of your statement.

I dont see how the time of G1's Scorponok first apperance has any bearing on this debate.As for him not being a Headmaster:

If your only refrance for G1 Transformers is the G1 toon then I can see your point but the G1 toon was not the only interpertation of the G1 story and myth.

The G1 myth has 3 branch'es:
1st] the toy bio's
2nd] the G1 marvel comic's
3rd] the G1 toon

The bio's and the comics were the first outlets for the G1 myth and in both Scorponok did not start out as a Headmaster.

You really can compair G1 Bonecrusher and Movie Bonecrusher's character's because movie Bonecrusher had no character at all.He had one line if that at all and he died right after.

They never really used Frenzy much in the G1 toon to get a real beed on his personaltiy so it's hard to compair G1 Frenzy's character to that of Bay's Frenzy.And making him a tape would have been a stupid idea because they aren used by most people these days so it wouldnt have been a effective disquise.

And you should be happy with the fact that they named that character Frenzy because one of the original name's for that character was Soundwave.

Can you picture if they named that little guy Soundwave???

Look: If those changes were good for you, then, precisely : Good for you! But on the pure argumentation of whether or not Transformers the movie was a good or bad adaptation of the original materials... Let put it this way: In the spectrum of bad to good adaptations, at one end you have "Sin City" and close to the other end you have Transformers. Try and guess which is at the Good end of the spectrum and which is not?

Comparing Transformers to Sin city is not fair.....mostly because the Sin City movie only had one original story to be based on.One source material to work from.

Transformers has at least 7 different takes on the G1 universe alone [that I can name off the top of my head] and 20+ years of history to try to include in his film....not to mention all the other serries that have come and gone.

Bay had to at least try to make the movie appealing to all those different generations of fans.

And if your askig me if I like all the changes...........no I do not but I understand them.

With all the history and the years not to mention the fact that there's 2 other generation's of TF fans out there besides the G1 generation I wasnt expecting Bay's movie to have a lot in common with the G1 story.

Face it Transformers has had 3 era's....
The G1 era
The Beast era
The Armada era

The G1 generation is out numbered.Toped off with bad writting and a director that never brings in a movie with any strong character development what do you expect.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Spelling is the only thing I'm good at.

LOL.

 

[andurilelessar]

The point of the list was that there are many changes (In rebuttal of someone else's post which seemed to claim that it was virtually the same)and many of your answers seem to confirm it; perhaps they seem trivial to some but I find that they disconnected me from the movie and kept me from enjoying it (... Besides the lame potty humour, the ridiculous-cliche army dumb-dumbs and the lack of gripping dialogues... but that is a whole other conversation).

To your answers I would only say this:

#1- Saying he "didn't have too" prove the point that it was a break from the original; plus If he had the power he wanted, why participate in rescuing Megatron? Doesn't fit the G1 character.

#2- The point was more that it didn't look at all like the G1 version (Another break); not even close. The "Go-Bot" comparison might be another debate all together but the bulky silhouette, to my opinion, is reminiscent of those bulky Go-Bots.

#3- I picked those 3 names because they really broke away from the original vehicular mode; I can concede that Optimus was a kind of truck, Jazz a similar sports car (Even if not the same) and star scream a Jet... I was being reasonable in my argumentation; pardon the laps in judgement! Again the point was the major break from the blue prints.

#4- Diaclones?... Who cares about the old diaclones? Did they make the spider-man outfit with the loose webbing underneath the armpits? No! Because even if it was the original design, the one we know best and identify to is the following, web-less costume we all recognise. But again that concedes that there was a change.

#5... Was skipped

#6- The Ark might not have had a name in the G1 series: But it still existed. There was a nameless ship, we now identify as the Ark. Name or no name: It was a part of the myth and is missing none the less from the movie.

#7- Happened to one decepticon... Happened to 2 dozen (+/-) autobots and Decepticon.
Crashed at the frigid pole... Crashed in a desert-like part of the USA.
Crashed by itself.... Crashed within the Ark.
Can you really tell me with a straight face that there is no difference; or even that the movie respected the spirit of the story line? I find that hard to believe.

#8- On a side note, I would ask: Why do they need to "Transform" if they can simply "Morph" into something else? It is 2 very different phenomenon. But, more to the point:
In the series, they were physically manipulated and changed into their new alternate forms; they were virtually rebuild. The scan was only to get blue prints to follow and mimic. When you see bumblebee suddenly changing from one model car to another one within a fraction of a second, it looks more akin to Merlin "poofing" himself into a rabbit, in the disney cartoon, then an actual, believable technology.

#9 ... Sometimes, to make a point understood, you have to "Go big"; hence the Wolverine example. But I guess we agree on that one: It makes a difference.

#10- Your right: Spike is not the best name out there and I'll even concede that it has always sounded like a nickname. But question, then: Why not use the nickname AS a nickname? Perfectly acceptable.
And besides, silly names are not uncommon in these sort of stories: Victor Von DOOM, is a good exemple. But regardless of whether we like them or not, again, the point was the break from the original.

#11- Aww come on dude! Everything else you put forward, even if I don't agreed with it, had some sound bases... But this one? The bonecrusher of the constructicon and the one from the movie were two totally different characters that had nothing to do with one another (Different). The Scorpinok of the series doesn't appear until way after Optimus' death and the movie version is not a head master (Different again). And Frenzy of the movie a boom box while the cartoon was a tape; ok, there and "audio" connection, but, still major difference... Plus the tape version did not laugh all the time like the psycho weasel from Who framed Roger Rabbit!

#12- ... skipped

Look: If those changes were good for you, then, precisely : Good for you! But on the pure argumentation of whether or not Transformers the movie was a good or bad adaptation of the original materials... Let put it this way: In the spectrum of bad to good adaptations, at one end you have "Sin City" and close to the other end you have Transformers. Try and guess which is at the Good end of the spectrum and which is not?

That is all I am saying!

Cheers!

Ok to #8 Why not just call them morphers instead of Transformers? Even the toys did more transforming than the cartoon did. Although I guess if you had it your way and they "Morphed" it would have saved money and they wouldn't be working on a sequal now because the first one would have bombed.
Too all your other points.... blah, blah, blah....

 

[portland2002]

Tell me what that episode is, because I know the top three, and it's not worse than the top twenty five.

Transformers 2007 at it's worst moments is better than G1 at it's best. That show was so logically inconsistent and bad at times it's literally unwatchable. I mean hell try making through an AKOM cartoon without winsing a million times, or try watching B.O.T without losing faith in humanity...it's simply not possible.

You should know a shows bad when THE CONVENTION DEDICATED TO THE TOYS has the MST3K guys voice over most of the shows noteable episodes.

B.O.T. is a terrible episode....most Transformers fans would agree with this I'm sure...and it's STILL FAR BETTER THAN THAT PILE OF RUST JUNK TRANSFORMERS (2007)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The negative cut and work print of Transformers (2007) would be BETTER OFF SMELTING IN A FURNACE that ever be USED AGAIN FOR THAT GARBAGE FILM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[HHHDan]

Well, my dear Klingon enthusiast: I guess we'll never agree!

To your last post I would only say that it is not exactly fair to say that, in the cartoon, they were not physically manipulated because while they only show, indeed, Sky Warps arms being changed (I DID remember that clearly), I think it is clearly a tool of the drawing team to suggest that they were physically rebuilt by Teletran 1 since right after the "change of the arm", there is a cut to suggest the passage of time.
Yes, Megatron only gets the beam, but since it is there for a fraction of a second, it is also clearly done to keep his aternate mode hidden until the 3rd part of the episode. So while they play around it (For time restrictions, I am sure) I think it was implied that they were physically changed and not just changed by a beam of light.

For the rest, maybe I have more discriminating tastes; maybe I'm just not one to satisfy myself with "Close enough". I just cannot accept that interpretation as on par with what it could of been (As Winston Churchill said: "I am easily satisfied with the very best."). And if indeed they tried to meld every version of TF together into the movie, well then, there is the answer as to why I think it failed: When one tries to please everyone, they end up alienating most everyone!

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Well, my dear Klingon enthusiast: I guess we'll never agree!

In general we dont disagree.I too believe that the film was not all it could have been but some of the points you made were irrevelant.

To your last post I would only say that it is not exactly fair to say that, in the cartoon, they were not physically manipulated because while they only show, indeed, Sky Warps arms being changed (I DID remember that clearly),I think it is clearly a tool of the drawing team to suggest that they were physically rebuilt by Teletran 1 since right after the "change of the arm", there is a cut to suggest the passage of time.

Again Skywarps left arm was being re-attached not changed.Again I referr you to the first episode time frame 0842
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wJ16d-qpBEE

You can see that its being re-attached.If it were being changed you would see the removel of the original arm or at least you would have seen it laying there.

The only thing that came make you think that they were being physically manipulated was the fact that some of them emereged from the light in their alt modes.

Yes, Megatron only gets the beam, but since it is there for a fraction of a second, it is also clearly done to keep his aternate mode hidden until the 3rd part of the episode. So while they play around it (For time restrictions, I am sure) I think it was implied that they were physically changed and not just changed by a beam of light.

But there's no evidence for your belief.At least not in the G1 toon.All they showed was the re-attachment of a few of Skywarps parts.Nothing else was really implied.

And I dont see how they hoped to keep "Megatron's aternate mode hidden until the 3rd part of the episode" like you suggest when it's reveled in the opening intro.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XxXH_CBrj2A

I used to think about it the same way you did but after seeing it again and again I began to watch it for what was really showen with out injecting my owen ideas.

And thats basicly what your doing.Your seeing what you want to see.But the facts is that the only physically manipulation of the TF's by Teletran 1 was to re-attach a few broken parts.

For the rest, maybe I have more discriminating tastes; maybe I'm just not one to satisfy myself with "Close enough". I just cannot accept that interpretation as on par with what it could of been (As Winston Churchill said: "I am easily satisfied with the very best.").

For me it's not an issue of being satisfied with "Close enough" but an acknowledgement that at least they gave us old timer's a few "Nods".Especially with some of the dialog.

Truth be told I was expecting them to give us nothing.I thought that Bay was going to completly leave any G1 refranceess out of his movie so I was happy to get at least a few.

And if indeed they tried to meld every version of TF together into the movie, well then, there is the answer as to why I think it failed: When one tries to please everyone, they end up alienating most everyone!

I really cant disagree with that.