Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

Not true. My wife for instance, knew nothing of Batman's origin before seeing Batman '89.

I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, nor is this truly a response to Johnny Drama. I just present this as general evidence for the debate. You cannot assume that the general audience knows a character's back story, even those as popular as Batman. I would agree that Superman is a special case and most people over the age of 4 have at least cursory knowledge of his origin, due to Superman's continued presence in pop culture, but everyone had to learn what they know somewhere.

B89 didn't go in depth with Bruces origin, they explained it in 3 minutes. The same can be done with Supes, we don't need 20-40 minutes showcasing we have already seen.
 
ya i wouldnt mind like 10mins devoted to his origins with a voice over narrating it. Ditch the dumb text crap they used in SR.
 
Thats funny, considering the guard barely likes anything thats not written by himself.

O...k.

I always enjoy when people tell me how I feel about things. I like a lot of stuff. I don't LOVE most things. And frankly, I don't like most of what I write, which is why the world hasn't seen much of it.

Seems to me that the way to honor the Superman mythology is to pull from both Pre and Post Crisis, and modern Superman fare. Take the best of the mythology and blend it together. You don't have to see entire elements translated, but a nod here and there will work wonders.

I do think it's amusing that what I said basically fell on deaf ears.

Again. Many things can work.

And properly structured and executed, a story can "start" with anything.
 
I have been saying that myself for awhile the guard. This time around they should look at all the eras what worked best for them at their heydays and times folks like each of their eras. Combine them all together, and then make a new and original story out of things. We dont need to cater to just one take/version of the character again like singer did.
 
B89 didn't go in depth with Bruces origin, they explained it in 3 minutes. The same can be done with Supes, we don't need 20-40 minutes showcasing we have already seen.

But can you really compair Batman's origin to Superman's? I mean the one event that shapes the rest of Bruce's life could be shown in real time and probaly not take more than 15 minutes. I'm not a SM history buff but I don't think there is one event in his life that is like Bruce's parents getting shot. Sure the Bruce's road to becoming Batman is more than just that one event but if that one event doesn't happen you never have Batman. I personaly think a new SM origin has to be done different or people will say they just copied STM. If they can do a Krypton-Smallville-Metropilis origin and make it in a way that doesn't come off as a Donner copy then fine. If they do it BB style thats fine also. But you need an origin.
 
I could go for an origin, where it the delivery of the origin was handled as in TAS, without the whole soap opera on Krypton part.

Start with a marquee just like at the beginning of SR (they did get that part right), the red sun explodes. Titles. Then jump right to the field crash and the kents, get onto growing up quickly. Throw some Lana Lang depression in there, and then have the remnants of the ship unlock his brain. TAS did it in 10 minutes(I checked) when you eliminate the whole krypton sequence out. If they could jump into it like that, I'd be happy.

if that. I'd rather superman find out where he comes from in a sequel. Leaving him as merely Superman, the baby found in a crashed spaceship for the Origin film.


IMO, this was one of the failures of the Donner franchise and of Smallville. Making Jor'el the all powerful, all knowing entity actually defeats some of the message the character carries. I hope that if they reboot, that they keep Jor'el and Lara as nothing more than dead biological parents. The emphasis should be redirected towards the Kents.


my hope is that they get to the superman asap, rather than waste time on elements of the story that should not persist past the opening movie of a franchise.
 
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well yea i agree a bit their making jorel/fos an all powerful entity is a bit silly, though i do would like to have a information/memory storage device around to help clark out with alien threats and what not. That the kryptonians might have been a part of a bigger universe with other races and threat out their. But dont have the memory/information dicate his life. I do want to see both kents alive and well in his adult years next time around so they can help him with human emotions and human problems and so he can still have a regular family life.
 
Here's my idea as far as Zod is concerned : I'd make Jor El Zod's mentor. Jor El was someone Zod almost considered a father figuare . He guided Zod who was rebellious and lacked purpose until he joined the Kryptonian military. Zod became a war hero while at the same time grew obessed with power and Ursa sort of became his lady Macbeth.

Jor El and Zod disagreed with the Council but Zod took it too far and attempted a coupe and tried to get Jor El to help him. Jor El didn't help and indeed informed the council of Zod's plans . That way Zod's hatred of Jor El is out of a sense of personal betrayal to a man he considered a father as opposed to just going after him because he was one of the people who sent him to the Phantom Zone. In the sense you can play with the idea that in a sense Kal El and Zod are brothers ,though not in a literal sense. They both had Jor El's affection and guidance but one son betrayed him (Zod) , and he tries in vain to instill noble values in the other(Clark) to prevent him from abusing his power and betraying the Kryptonian culture .

That's what I'd do though again , I'd save the Zod stuff for film 3.
 
There you go! :up:



Every saga needs a good "NNNNNOOOOOOooooooooooooooo......!!!!!"
 
I think most comic fans ignore anything that offers even a glimmer of complexity, and it dosent even have to deal with storylines. Look at these boards for example...if you dont support the idea that the next superman flick has to be something based on the equally outdated 80's/90's Superman, you MUST want donner's Superman....any other idea just gets ignored, as mentioned before in this thread.
 
The opening is a trucking shot thru space. No music. Just the sound one might imagine if there were sound in space. A kind of angels choir with a slow, sweeping phase shift combined with the sound of wind. A composited title appears mid left on the screen. It says 'Twenty five years ago' in an unassuming type-face and then disolves. We rapidly approach a glistening blue green ball. Our approach slows to a majestic stop. Another composited title appears just off center in that same unassuming type-face. It says simply 'Krypton'.

Hard cut to a lush tropical landscape thru which we are moving at a comfortable pace. We have the ground miles below us yet the vegetation are still higher than we are. Over our left shoulder, a flying brass ship looking more like a pocket watch on it's edge than a vehicle zooms past us.

As we follow it, we're led out of the lush jungle with it's strange and beautiful flora to the beautiful alien citie of this strange land. They consist of networks of golden spires connected by golden transways. Huge-jewel like windows adorn these golden towers.

The ship we've been following draws closer to an open portal and enters.

Hard cut to the interior of the landing bay. The ship settles and out of it comes a man in a black skin-tight suit that goes all the way up his head revealing only his face. Over this black suit is a loose cloth like that of a bishops robes. It's bright red and adorned with golden trim.

A floating robot, also brass, moves forward to greet him as he steps away from the vehicle.

"Welcome home, Master Jor-el. I trust your expedition was informative." It says in an almost human but still mechanical voice.

"Yes, it was, Kelex, and unfortunately so.". His young but rich voice carries with it a sense of surrender. "It's undeniable that our world is in grave danger. The council can no longer turn a blind eye to my findings."

Brandishing a small, silver disc Jor-el continues. "I've enough evidence here to prove that the core of this world is about to rupture and all life will be destroyed. Once the council sees this, they'll see that we need to start building the ships I've designed to take our people away."

Cut to Jor-el before the council. His demeanor shows both anger and frustration. It's obvious by the way he stands before them that he's been arguing his position for some time.

"Young Jor-el, we of the council agree that, not only are your findings inconclusive but are most improbable. Know you this: If you choose to continue with your attempts to panic the populace with these unfounded rantings - we will have no choice but to revoke all of your priveleges as a member of the scientific community and, quite possibly, place you in the phantom zone. The device you yourself created to imprison the unjust. It is upon you to choose wisely, Jor-el.

Jor-el attempts to speak once more but is silenced by the council who all rise and turn their backs to him as they leave the great hall.

Cut to Jor-el as he steams past other similarly dressed Kryptonians. The look of anger and frustration have not left his face but there is a new vigor in his step. He is met by his companion robot Kelex as he walks across the great courtyard.

"Master Jor-el, they didn't not listen to you?"

"Oh, they listened, alright, Kelex. They listened but refused to hear."

"What will you do, Sir?"

Jor-el stops dead in his tracks and stares at the floating mechanoid. He didn't have a secondary plan but one has just formed in his head this very moment. A grim but determined smile manifests across his face.

Night. We are in the shadows of a what appears to be a large, long curving atrium. Dark glass inset in crystaline white structures serve as walls.

We are revisited by the composited titles. It appears in the lower left hand of the screen and informs us that we are in the: 'Birthing Chambers'. Jor-el glides through the darkness, peering thru the dark glass. A sound causes him to jerk his head to look down the hallway and he presses himself against the glass wall. Two large floating mechanoids move thru a crossing corridor and are oblivious to Jor-el. Once out of sight, he moves further down the hall.

Cut to a door labled something in Kryptonese. We don't know what it says but it certainly means something to young Jor-el as the smile returns to his face. He pulls out something from under his robe - a small device with a minimal display of lights which seem to be synching up to something on the door. Jor-el nervously looks around. The door 'swooshes' open just in time as we here male human voices coming around the curving hallway. He ducks inside.

Cut to room interior.

It is a massive room filled with capsules about the size of 3 foot long watermelon. They're dark and glassy, standing on end, and there are tubes running into them. Jor-el presses up close and we can now see that there are tags on each of them. Something in Kryptonian. We look, with Jor-el, and finally see inside the capsule. There is a living, sleeping, dreaming baby in it. We pull back an find that there are babies in each capsule.

The male voices in the hallway return and seem to be approaching this room. Jor-el frantically moves from capsule to capsule reading the tags. He stops and his eyes go wide, his jaw looses it's clench. He's found what he's looking for. He strokes it gently, lovingly but the moment is broken as he hears the swoosh of the door. He quickly hides behind the capsule. The voices enter the room. Cautiously daring to peek around the capsule, he sees two figures in suits similar to his but all white and with their bald heads exposed. They are accompanied by three floating mechanoids.

Entering the room last is a man dressed very darkly. His skin tight suit mirrors Jor-el's own but there are no robes. Instead the new individual has an outer suit or black, glistening armour. He carries a weapon.

Jor-el is near panic. His mind races for a way to complete his mission and escape with the prize.


....... and I'm stopping here....

Jor-el's story doesn't have to be all that long but can still be exciting, informative, and give us a sense of what Krypton was. Obviously Jor-el will escape with his baby son, Kal-el and send him to Earth but here we get a sense of who he is. He wasn't an elder statesman of Krypton. He wasn't a metaphor for God. He was a man trying to be a hero against all odds.
 
B89 didn't go in depth with Bruces origin, they explained it in 3 minutes. The same can be done with Supes, we don't need 20-40 minutes showcasing we have already seen.
Right, but that decision was not reached because everyone knew Batman's origin, as was suggested.
 
Nice krypton/jorel ideal their david. As for frodo's idea of zod is kalel's real father its an interesting idea. But i dont really want to have a massive change like that for change of things. We dont need to reinvent the wheel with the origin/background. We need a good story and shown in a new light so its not like smallville/lois and clark/STAS or donner. But their inlays the problem of how to do it and what story to tell.
 
No more Donner crap please. If I never see General Zod again it will be too soon.

No Kal-El.....I...am your father.....!


Screw Donnner....we're talking Lucas via Kirschner crap!
 
Make Braniac his mother. Kal-El turns out to be a genetically engineered Supersoldier, whose powers are even more enhanced now that he's on Earth. And now mommy wants baby to help her take over the planet.
 

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