Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

Yea like i keep saying any restart not using origin in some fashion would be stupid. WE would have no clue why/how characters are the way they are and why its different then say donner's superman, Reeves superman, cain's superman, etc......
 
Yup. When rebooting, the assumption should always be that the audience has no prior knowledge of the character whatsoever-- like, if I knew someone who had never heard of Superman, then the movie should act as a perfect introduction to the character. With Superman, his origin is such an integral part of his character that the audience MUST have it explained, because so many parts of his character are focused around it.

If I was new to Superman and I watched SR, I'd be so weighed down with questions that I wouldn't even be able to pay attention to the story, and I think that's part of why it was not the success that Warner Bros. wanted. It was too steeped in nostalgia and made too many assumptions about what the audience knew about the character. The only assumption that the new movie should make is that it will be introducing Superman to a new generation, and that means introducing all of him rather than trying to throw people right into the middle.

IMO, watching Clark Kent learning to become Superman is worth the additional screen time it would take. People enjoy seeing how Clark went from being an abnormally strong farm boy in Kansas to a flying superhero in a blue costume, because it's interesting. Say what you will about Smallville, but how would they have been able to get the show picked up if the transition from farmboy to Man of Steel wasn't fascinating? (Of course, Smallville unfortunately dragged it out way more than it should have, and didn't even get to the fulfillment / pay off.) Not only is it dumb to assume everyone in the audience knows the Superman story, but also Superman's origins are too important, and too interesting to just say "been there, done that, throw away the lame old hat!"
 
Yup. When rebooting, the assumption should always be that the audience has no prior knowledge of the character whatsoever-- like, if I knew someone who had never heard of Superman, then the movie should act as a perfect introduction to the character. With Superman, his origin is such an integral part of his character that the audience MUST have it explained, because so many parts of his character are focused around it.

If I was new to Superman and I watched SR, I'd be so weighed down with questions that I wouldn't even be able to pay attention to the story, and I think that's part of why it was not the success that Warner Bros. wanted. It was too steeped in nostalgia and made too many assumptions about what the audience knew about the character. The only assumption that the new movie should make is that it will be introducing Superman to a new generation, and that means introducing all of him rather than trying to throw people right into the middle.

IMO, watching Clark Kent learning to become Superman is worth the additional screen time it would take. People enjoy seeing how Clark went from being an abnormally strong farm boy in Kansas to a flying superhero in a blue costume, because it's interesting. Say what you will about Smallville, but how would they have been able to get the show picked up if the transition from farmboy to Man of Steel wasn't fascinating? (Of course, Smallville unfortunately dragged it out way more than it should have, and didn't even get to the fulfillment / pay off.) Not only is it dumb to assume everyone in the audience knows the Superman story, but also Superman's origins are too important, and too interesting to just say "been there, done that, throw away the lame old hat!"
:applaud
 
And, ... to add to what Timstuff posted, Superman's origin can be given the same depth that Batman recieved in Batman Begins.

Who among us would honestly say they wouldn't be excited to see a new version of Krypton on screen that presents it in a fantastic new incarnation.
 
Superman's origin can be given the same depth that Batman recieved in Batman Begins.

"Not enough"?

I'm sorry, I couldn't resist.

Can't you just see this?

JOR-EL
Focus! Concentrate! Master your super senses!.
 
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If it was done well and was relevant to the story (like in Geoff Johns' Brainiac arc) then I would have no issue. If its the origin just for the sake of showing that damn planet explode yet again then there is a problem. People like us understand the variants in the origin, the different portrayals of krypton for example but joe movie goer doesn't and doesn't care. Its Superman, unless you live under a rock you know what happens. Planet goes boom. Rocket comes to earth. Lands in Smallville. Little Kal-El is raised as Clark Kent. He becomes a reporter at the Daily Planet.
 
DavidTyler said,
And, ... to add to what Timstuff posted, Superman's origin can be given the same depth that Batman recieved in Batman Begins.

It did already and in a great way, Superman The Movie. Best origin movie ever, imo.

STM is a magical and very enjoyable movie that got the essence of the character right, and it still works. It's a classic for a reason.


Who among us would honestly say they wouldn't be excited to see a new version of Krypton on screen that presents it in a fantastic new incarnation.

I don't. Not yet. I want the story to move forward not backwards. I want to see new stories like Superman vs Brainiac, Superman vs Doomsday, Superman vs Mongul, Superman vs Parasite, Superman vs Darkseid, heck even Superman vs Bizarro. MOVE FORWARD please >>>
 
Yup. When rebooting, the assumption should always be that the audience has no prior knowledge of the character whatsoever-- like, if I knew someone who had never heard of Superman, then the movie should act as a perfect introduction to the character. With Superman, his origin is such an integral part of his character that the audience MUST have it explained, because so many parts of his character are focused around it.

If I was new to Superman and I watched SR, I'd be so weighed down with questions that I wouldn't even be able to pay attention to the story, and I think that's part of why it was not the success that Warner Bros. wanted. It was too steeped in nostalgia and made too many assumptions about what the audience knew about the character. The only assumption that the new movie should make is that it will be introducing Superman to a new generation, and that means introducing all of him rather than trying to throw people right into the middle.

IMO, watching Clark Kent learning to become Superman is worth the additional screen time it would take. People enjoy seeing how Clark went from being an abnormally strong farm boy in Kansas to a flying superhero in a blue costume, because it's interesting. Say what you will about Smallville, but how would they have been able to get the show picked up if the transition from farmboy to Man of Steel wasn't fascinating? (Of course, Smallville unfortunately dragged it out way more than it should have, and didn't even get to the fulfillment / pay off.) Not only is it dumb to assume everyone in the audience knows the Superman story, but also Superman's origins are too important, and too interesting to just say "been there, done that, throw away the lame old hat!"
I agree with you there tim, i said it before if this is going to be a new take on the character we need to see why this story is different and why the characters develop the way they do. Do you really want all superman live action films to just be the donner take. Sure i said i love the donner movies as much as the next guy but there is so much more you could do with superman backstory and bring in other elements that were not even thought off back in the 70s.
 
DavidTyler said,
And, ... to add to what Timstuff posted, Superman's origin can be given the same depth that Batman recieved in Batman Begins.

It did already and in a great way, Superman The Movie. Best origin movie ever, imo.

STM is a magical and very enjoyable movie that got the essence of the character right, and it still works. It's a classic for a reason.


Who among us would honestly say they wouldn't be excited to see a new version of Krypton on screen that presents it in a fantastic new incarnation.

I don't. Not yet. I want the story to move forward not backwards. I want to see new stories like Superman vs Brainiac, Superman vs Doomsday, Superman vs Mongul, Superman vs Parasite, Superman vs Darkseid, heck even Superman vs Bizarro. MOVE FORWARD please >>>

The Donner series was also popular about 25-30 years ago. I'm ready to move on.
 
The only thing with seeing Clark learning how to be Superman...is that the mainstream public has seen it...and seen a lot of it in recent years. Originally, we saw the "insta-training" version in SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE in a manner that will be difficult to top if they approached it in that way, and as far as Clark gradually discovering his powers, we've seen for what, eight, nine years now on SMALLVILLE? I have no qualms about seeing elements of his time in Smallville, but the TV show, by simple virtue of being on for eight years, will likely better almost anything a movie is able to do in terms of the emergence and/or the impact of the emergence and discovery of his powers.
 
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an origin would be cool if they did it right. flashbacks may work better than starting the movie on krypton. they should just do a "superman begins." hell they should just restart every failed mainstream dc movie with an "<insert superhero name> begins" movie. it worked wonders for batman...they just need to show us something new.
 
If it was done well and was relevant to the story (like in Geoff Johns' Brainiac arc) then I would have no issue. If its the origin just for the sake of showing that damn planet explode yet again then there is a problem. People like us understand the variants in the origin, the different portrayals of krypton for example but joe movie goer doesn't and doesn't care. Its Superman, unless you live under a rock you know what happens. Planet goes boom. Rocket comes to earth. Lands in Smallville. Little Kal-El is raised as Clark Kent. He becomes a reporter at the Daily Planet.

Word. That why I'm against showing an origin all over again. Why use the same thing all over again like the first film? They can show some of Krypton before it explode & some of Supe's origin as flashback. As long the film doesn't show the whole origin all over again, I'm fine with showing some flashbacks here & there briefly. I just don't want a "Batman Begins" origin type.
 
well there is so many ways they can do origin and still make it fresh, new, and different. Like i said i personally would hate to not have any origin shown and be expected to think all film superman's origin will be tied to what was seen in donner's film. There is alot they can add/change/ehance about krypton/smallville days in a new series.
 
I take the 'naysayers' here with a grain of salt. If a full on origin is shown in the next film and done well, they'll all be singing it's praises. There was a bit of that opposition to a full on origin for Batman ... then Begins came out and every one of them changed their tune.

People here think they've seen the Superman origin since S:TMP presented that 'quickie' version back 30 years ago. They have no idea how much more they can get out of it than that. I mean what did you actually get with that Donner film? You have a few seconds of geriatric Jor-El sentencing criminals to a flying peice of glass on what looked like a big ice-planet. Then he has a quick discussion with some floating heads. Next you see him loading a baby into a flying chandolier and launching it through the ceiling while the icy looking surrounding fall down around him. I mean ... does that really satisfy you? It doesn't even come close for me ... not when I first saw it and not now.

Smallville fared slightly better with it's Rockwellian pastoral scenes.
 
I sincerely believe that making Superman relevant to a modern audience screams for it to have a new origin....

The Krypton scenes should feel like a great ... GREAT science fiction movie with exciting visuals. It should be a great mini epic featuring the young rebel Jor-El and how he bucked the council to try to save at least his son from the dying world.

Smallville should have a couple of scenes showing the revelation of his powers and how the childhood experiences there (good and bad) shaped him.

I want to see just a bit of his world travels before he donned the costume


And then I want to see his first encounters with Lois and Lex.
All this was done in Superman:The Movie. We don't need to see it again.

Let's have something ORIGINAL!!!! Not another story that has already been done!
 
The only thing with seeing Clark learning how to be Superman...is that the mainstream public has seen it...and seen a lot of it in recent years. Originally, we saw the "insta-training" version in SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE in a manner that will be difficult to top if they approached it in that way, and as far as Clark gradually discovering his powers, we've seen for what, eight, nine years now on SMALLVILLE? I have no qualms about seeing elements of his time in Smallville, but the TV show, by simple virtue of being on for eight years, will likely better almost anything a movie is able to do in terms of the emergence and/or the impact of the emergence and discovery of his powers.
Of the people that have seen those products, do you think it'd even come to remotely close to a quarter of the audience that would experience it for the time?

We all know everyone is "familiar" with the origin in the most basic sense. But once you dig deeper into that population of who actually KNOWS the origin, and those who have seen it in a low-budget form, the numbers are low compared to the general filmgoing audience. The likelihood that anyone would be bored or tired with a balls-out visionary reimagination of a grand visual tale, is unbelievably slim.

This is coming from someone who has seen practically every interpretation of the origin. People here unknowingly take advantage of the fact that we're all Superman fans. Not to down the franchise, but Supes name hasn't been relevant in pop culture since the L&C series.
 
totally we can expand and take things in a different route than what was seen before. Like i said in other thread i personally would hate to see all film superman's be stuck in donner's world and nothing different. There is more you can do with krypton more you can do with smallville/pre superman life, more you can do with lex luthor, etc......
 
There's a few problems comparing Superman to Batman.

Batman's origins are rather boring. One reason the Nolan movie made so much up. The only thing Batman's parents did of note was dying. Superman's biological parents on the other hand are a lot more interesting, or at least Jor-El is.

One big thing a lot of people seem to overlook is that Clark Kent had powers from a very early age, unlike Bruce Wayne. Even as a child he could be a superhero (and was in the comics obviously).

He can actually do interesting things at an early age, even before he becomes Superman. A reboot should definitely incorporate that.

So when it comes to showing Origins, Superman has a lot more going for him than Batman ever has.
 
Batman's origins are rather boring. One reason the Nolan movie made so much up.
No. Nolan changed/twisted/altered things that were already there. There's a difference. Everything that was in BB, more or less in some form took inspiration from the books.

Not even gonna address the rest of that post because quite clearly you haven't read enough Batman stories. :o
 
No. Nolan changed/twisted/altered things that were already there. There's a difference. Everything that was in BB, more or less in some form took inspiration from the books.

Not even gonna address the rest of that post because quite clearly you haven't read enough Batman stories. :o
Didn't you know? According to alot of so-called Batman fans Nolan and Goyer created Batman.:awesome:
 
All this was done in Superman:The Movie. We don't need to see it again.

Let's have something ORIGINAL!!!! Not another story that has already been done!

There is a deep innate human desire to hear and re-hear the same stories over and over again.

This is what gives us legends and myths.

Re-booting superman is a way to re-tell the origin yet again in an original way, that has not been seen in live action film before.

If you want something 100% original, and no origin story for superman, then make a new superhero with a different origin.

For the next Superman movie to be unique, and original, it should not be tied to any other live film version of the character.

That means not attached to SV, STM, SR, or L&C. For it to be Original and stand on its own, it should show a new updated version of the origin.

Sure every one knows Superman&#8217;s Origin, they know his Superpowers and secret identity too. I don't think those need to be changed, but they do have to be shown, and the origin along with them.

I don&#8217;t need to discover something new about Superman, I want to see a retelling of his classic mythic story, in live action format, that does the source material justice on an epic scale.
 
There's a few problems comparing Superman to Batman.

Batman's origins are rather boring. One reason the Nolan movie made so much up. The only thing Batman's parents did of note was dying. Superman's biological parents on the other hand are a lot more interesting, or at least Jor-El is.

One big thing a lot of people seem to overlook is that Clark Kent had powers from a very early age, unlike Bruce Wayne. Even as a child he could be a superhero (and was in the comics obviously).

He can actually do interesting things at an early age, even before he becomes Superman. A reboot should definitely incorporate that.

So when it comes to showing Origins, Superman has a lot more going for him than Batman ever has.

No. Nolan changed/twisted/altered things that were already there. There's a difference. Everything that was in BB, more or less in some form took inspiration from the books.

Not even gonna address the rest of that post because quite clearly you haven't read enough Batman stories. :o

Thunder ... I'm not sure if you're in agreement over redoing Superman's origin... I'm a bit confused by your post since you digress to talk about Batman.

And Crook is right if you think Nolan/Goyer made all that up. Most of what you saw in Begins was pretty much from the comics. In fact, the only parts Nolan/Goyer added to the mix were making Ducard an alias for Ras, having Bruce decide to kill his parent's killer, and combining Bruce's travels to learn his craft with a self-imposed exile that ends up at the doorstep of Ras.

Having said all that, Begins is absolute proof that the film makers need to employ people who really know source. Goyer was that for the Batman films and his tweaks to the mythos were copmpletely derived from the comics. The end result? A very good and watchable film. We need a Goyer for Superman. Someone who can keep the director on the right path.
 
I take the 'naysayers' here with a grain of salt. If a full on origin is shown in the next film and done well, they'll all be singing it's praises. There was a bit of that opposition to a full on origin for Batman ... then Begins came out and every one of them changed their tune.

People here think they've seen the Superman origin since S:TMP presented that 'quickie' version back 30 years ago. They have no idea how much more they can get out of it than that. I mean what did you actually get with that Donner film? You have a few seconds of geriatric Jor-El sentencing criminals to a flying peice of glass on what looked like a big ice-planet. Then he has a quick discussion with some floating heads. Next you see him loading a baby into a flying chandolier and launching it through the ceiling while the icy looking surrounding fall down around him. I mean ... does that really satisfy you? It doesn't even come close for me ... not when I first saw it and not now.

Smallville fared slightly better with it's Rockwellian pastoral scenes.

And I'm sure they feel the same way about you.

Donner's version was a quickie? Really? I've seen much quicker versions of superman's origin...All Star Superman? The actual definition of showing a "quickie" Superman origin.

People can use Batman Begins for comparison all you'd like...but I know for damn sure that if Burton spent the first hour of B89 on Batman's origin...we sure as hell wouldn't of gotten Batman Begins. Its because Batmans origin was underveloped in older versions that we finally got an in depth one. And that was just as much a "quickie" as STM supposedly was for Superman. I find it absolutely hilarious that you constantly bag on STM, but praise BB when its basically ripping off STM's style...which chris nolan himself has admitted.
 
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In Donner's movie we never saw Superman learning how to fly, deciding to put on a costume, or any of that. He went to the Fortress of Solitude, and one 8 years montage later emerged as Superman. There are PLENTY of ways that you can show Superman's origin that would be more interesting than what they did in SR. I mean, just like at Superman Birthright! As far as I'm concerned they can spend as much time on the origin as they like as long as they do a good job and leave plenty of room in the rest of the movie for a fully Superman.

And another thing plenty of people have mentioned: if the movie is good, the people who are anti-origin are going to love it anyway. They stand to loose a lot more of the audience by skipping over Superman's origin than they do by showing it (which for the latter would probably be almost no-one), so they should just go for it and try to make the best Superman origin flick they possibly can.
 
Yea there is alot you can do and make it different from what we saw before. I said above i dont want to see all live action film superman stuck in donner's story/setting and all that. WE can see a new krypton have a new reason why the world with nova, and then we can see some different smallville live/pre metropolis life. WE can see why this clark decides to be a hero, comes up with the costume, how his powers developed, and then see all new lex corp/political take and so and so forth.
 

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