The Dark Knight Rises Why did they wait 5months to blow up the city

[Brother Jack]

The whole idea has always been the people...over the structures themselves. To destroy the city is one thing, but to have the very people that make up the city, the community...destroy themselves. That's the point, that's the idea that ra's and joker wanted to illustrate to bruce and the world, "when the chips are down these civilized people will eat each other", that these people aren't innocent when pushed to the limit, given the right circumstances, everyone will always turn into savages, killing each other. Bane's plan was just a continuation of this all, giving them all hope, having them all live in the shadow of death only to show Bruce how his idea of inspiring the people of gotham to take matters in their own hands, is futile.

The great thing about bane's plan is that it's almost mocking Bruce's own plan, he himself rallies the masses, and tells them to take control of their city, but his twisted way only incites violence, in a way Bane is doing what the cops and the authorities thought batman was doing all along, inciting violence.

This is pretty much it. It's not much different than the plans of the previous villains and has more logistics to it than just making Bruce suffer, even if that was a big part of it. It wasn't enough just to nuke the city and be done with it. For Bane to prove his point and instigate the kind of effect that Ra's originally wanted the city had to appear to be destroyed by itself.

 

[Doc Samson]

Doesn't mean it makes sense.

That sounds to me like the put it all together backwards. Started with Bane breaking Batman's back. Then what happens during the recovery time? Oh, they just drive the bomb around for months. Well, why would they do that? Because....... See what I mean?

It makes perfect sense. Doesn't mean you or anybody else has to like it, but to suggest it doesn't make sense, doesn't make sense IMO.

 

[kewlmatto]

This is pretty much it. It's not much different than the plans of the previous villains and has more logistics to it than just making Bruce suffer, even if that was a big part of it. It wasn't enough just to nuke the city and be done with it. For Bane to prove his point and instigate the kind of effect that Ra's originally wanted the city had to appear to be destroyed by itself.

I'd be fine with that if we actually had more of a No Man's Land vibe to Bane-occupied Gotham.

There is really very little anarchy shown - Gotham doesn't really appear to be tearing itself up at all. It's more stagnant than anything.

I think it was a missed opportunity.

 

[Great Mind(s)]

I'd be fine with that if we actually had more of a No Man's Land vibe to Bane-occupied Gotham.

There is really very little anarchy shown - Gotham doesn't really appear to be tearing itself up at all. It's more stagnant than anything.

I think it was a missed opportunity.

I agree with that. It could have been brutal, it had a lot of potential.

 

[Doc Samson]

Perhaps, but if someone like Bane actually showed up on TV, I'd imagine most sane people would be hesitant to step on their front porch, let alone run amok outside. It's not like he's miles away, he released the worst criminals and added them into an already murderous terrorist regime, and has these type of individuals patrolling the streets with military grade weaponry. What exactly would you be outside trying to do, other than leave, which he made virtually impossible?

 

[JackWhite]

Bane's whole diatribe about giving the city back to the people, only to intend on blowing it up eventually is some pretty messed up stuff.

On one hand, Bane wanted the people of Gotham to rip the city in half through desperation of a false revolution, and on the other Bane wanted some of the citizens to stay inside there homes, hiding and scared thinking that Bane's reign of terror might end and he won't blow up the city.

Brilliant stuff, IMO.

 

[Banetico]

Gotham' s occupation lasted 5 months. during the first 3 or so months after he freed the inmates of blackgate the city became the chaos wrenched hive you all speak of. do you think the rich where thrown in the street in a single day?

Bane had to rally the army he meant to control Gotham with and then "train" them into what and how to do what The LoS wanted. During this time crime ran amok in the streets and several areas of the city became the "personal" areas of the ones that could control them. An example of this is Celina Kyle's neighborhood where she kept a tight control of other burglars or gangs not coming into her borders without permission.

During this time every citizen and family that was now vandalized by some means or the other kept strictly to their homes (pretty much barricaded inside them) and kept to themselves.

Eventually the violence came to a stop (even crime needs to rest sometime) and Gotham became a ghost town just waiting for either Bane to leave, someone to save them or things somehow coming back to normal... Remember that Bane fed them hope by stating that Gotham would endure and survive the strife of reclamation.

this state of quietness was the last weeks before the Batman came back and what we are allowed to see ourselves.

 

[Brother Jack]

I'd be fine with that if we actually had more of a No Man's Land vibe to Bane-occupied Gotham.

There is really very little anarchy shown - Gotham doesn't really appear to be tearing itself up at all. It's more stagnant than anything.

I think it was a missed opportunity.

I liked how quiet Gotham was after the initial bursts of violence and social upheaval. A lot of that stuff wasn't shown and left to the imagination, but I personally didn't have a problem with it. The city felt like it was being occupied by an invading army with the barren streets. There's also a bit of subtle point being made that Bane/Joker/Ra's were wrong, that not everyone would devolve into animals when the going got tough and that Gotham did not deserve to be destroyed.

 

[Banetico]

^^^ This

 

[Fudgie]

How could Gotham devolve into animals when they were being kept on a leash by patrolling tumblers, Bane's armed men, and a bomb hanging over them. I won't even get started on the false hope thing with the people who wouldn't know their butts were going to get blown up anyway.

Bane's plan made no sense.

 

[Kargo Warrior]

How could Gotham devolve into animals when they were being kept on a leash by patrolling tumblers, Bane's armed men, and a bomb hanging over them. I won't even get started on the false hope thing with the people who wouldn't know their butts were going to get blown up anyway.

Bane's plan made no sense.

At all.
Nolan's disinterest in making any kind of political statement is what reduced the film to a cliche evil revenge story,completely nullifying Bane in the process.

The whole point of their plan was to make Batman suffer,then watch Gotham being destroyed.All their rhetoric about corruption,revolution,change was plain nothing.

Out of all the possibilities,political,philosophical,social,Nolan didn't have the guts to pursue anything but his vaunted near-end-twists.

The plan didn't even worked as a quasi-revolution.All Bane did was release the rapists,killers and robbers,put guns into their arms and let them ravage the city while holding everyone else hostage with the bomb.

We see no ordinary citizens but criminals and LOS mercenaries.We see no reaction by the citizens,whether they approve the take over,whether they are scared,hopeful,hopeless,nothing.

There's no class war,there's no even a class argument in the film,everything is just a plot point,a device to the plot from point a to point b.

Instead of making Bane a thought provoking idealist who actually wants to see social equality,who wants the corrupt and the greedy to be punished but has brutal means about it,who actually cares about people in his own way unlike Ra's and the Joker, instead of having a citizen revolution where Batman would be torn by consequences of his actions and wouldn't resolve everything with his fists,we received a psychopathic brute who cares only for his ''love''. Instead of contrast of ideologies we received a contrast of fighting proves.Twice.

Bane figuring out Batman's identity and his decision to take the blame over Harvey's murders prior to the film's events would have been brilliant.Perhaps even making it public exploiting Wayne's apparent hypocrisy by being the richest citizen of Gotham,while also being a raving maniac who thinks he's above justice.There's one reason to provoke the masses to react and start damaging other people's properties.That way,Blake's terrible way of finding out Bruce's identity would have been solved too.Unfortunately convenient writing 1-0-1 prevailed and he found out by receiving Gordon's speech a long way into his supposed masterplan.

The trailer promised so so much but the film ended up being a melodramatic conventional comic book film with two many half hearted ideas and concepts that served no deeper purpose but to entertain.And i'm incredibly disappointed by that.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Nah, Bane's plan made enough sense to understand

 

[BatLobster]

At all.
We see no ordinary citizens but criminals and LOS mercenaries.We see no reaction by the citizens,whether they approve the take over,whether they are scared,hopeful,hopeless,nothing.

Not entirely true. We see a doorman being approached by a mob of rioters, and then when it cuts back to it we see the same doorman dragging out rich people into the street. I think it's heavily implied that Bane added some ordinary citizens to his army.

In fact, he'd already been doing that all along. The cement truck drivers for instance. The rumors of their being "more work in the sewers than up on the streets". Bane's revolution was brewing long before he attacked the stadium.

 

[Carnotaur3]

The differences in Ra's Al Ghul and his daughter & Bane is that Ra's loyalty to justice was stronger than his personal problems. It's reversed for Bane and Talia. Everything is in honor and a vengeance for someone else. Bane's honor is in honor of Talia. Talia's actions are in honor of her father. Everything is personal.

Which is why their plan isn't rational from a logistical perspective. The League is no longer acting logical because it's not. It's personal. Talia views Bruce/Batman as the killer of her father, and the destroyer of true justice. He's the lover of the world. The devil in her eyes. Bane views Bruce/Batman as the trophy he can win and his torture as the defining expression of affection he has for Talia. He did everything she wanted for her. He was going to die by her side.

Killing Gotham wasn't all they could do. They could inspire a revolution in it. Let them divide against themselves. Let them deceive themselves that they could be saved. All to prove a point to the world watching - and - to make Bruce Wayne suffer the worst fate imaginable. Bruce said to Ra's in Batman Begins, "There are good people here." If Bane could let the world and Bruce see that there isn't, his goals in his life, his reason for being who he was... would have all been for naught. He would have no purpose. No reason to rise from the darkness.

 

[The Joker]

At all.
Nolan's disinterest in making any kind of political statement is what reduced the film to a cliche evil revenge story,completely nullifying Bane in the process.

The whole point of their plan was to make Batman suffer,then watch Gotham being destroyed.All their rhetoric about corruption,revolution,change was plain nothing.

Out of all the possibilities,political,philosophical,social,Nolan didn't have the guts to pursue anything but his vaunted near-end-twists.

The plan didn't even worked as a quasi-revolution.All Bane did was release the rapists,killers and robbers,put guns into their arms and let them ravage the city while holding everyone else hostage with the bomb.

We see no ordinary citizens but criminals and LOS mercenaries.We see no reaction by the citizens,whether they approve the take over,whether they are scared,hopeful,hopeless,nothing.

There's no class war,there's no even a class argument in the film,everything is just a plot point,a device to the plot from point a to point b.

Instead of making Bane a thought provoking idealist who actually wants to see social equality,who wants the corrupt and the greedy to be punished but has brutal means about it,who actually cares about people in his own way unlike Ra's and the Joker, instead of having a citizen revolution where Batman would be torn by consequences of his actions and wouldn't resolve everything with his fists,we received a psychopathic brute who cares only for his ''love''. Instead of contrast of ideologies we received a contrast of fighting proves.Twice.

Bane figuring out Batman's identity and his decision to take the blame over Harvey's murders prior to the film's events would have been brilliant.Perhaps even making it public exploiting Wayne's apparent hypocrisy by being the richest citizen of Gotham,while also being a raving maniac who thinks he's above justice.There's one reason to provoke the masses to react and start damaging other people's properties.That way,Blake's terrible way of finding out Bruce's identity would have been solved too.Unfortunately convenient writing 1-0-1 prevailed and he found out by receiving Gordon's speech a long way into his supposed masterplan.

The trailer promised so so much but the film ended up being a melodramatic conventional comic book film with two many half hearted ideas and concepts that served no deeper purpose but to entertain.And i'm incredibly disappointed by that.

This is an excellent post. Well said

 

[CapedCrusader14]

Though I didn't have such a big problem with Bane's plan (even if it was an unnecessary re-hash), that was a great post Kargo.

 

[TheHighlander]

This x 1000

That whole plot line would have made a lot more sense in this case. Then, it would have been a matter of having to wait for the bomb to go off than just ego. This was simply sloppy writing.

I still love the movie, though, but the trigger plot was really convoluted.

That is my point.... Having a real trigger just makes the decision seem pointless. If they did all this trying to make the time pass before the bomb goes off, then I would have been very happy with the outcome... Honestly.. they should edit the trigger out or make it seem like a bluff.

I do get that people feel a lot more fear if they THINK they can be blown up at any moment, but making it true just makes the film senseless.

The Dark Knight worked so well because of the joker, because the plan was just to take over and do his will, be in power.

On batman begins Rha's doesn't waste time he had a trigger and as soon as he could he was USING it.

Otherwise.. bane was monologuing for 5 months...

 

[TheHighlander]

At all.
Nolan's disinterest in making any kind of political statement is what reduced the film to a cliche evil revenge story,completely nullifying Bane in the process.

The whole point of their plan was to make Batman suffer,then watch Gotham being destroyed.All their rhetoric about corruption,revolution,change was plain nothing.

Out of all the possibilities,political,philosophical,social,Nolan didn't have the guts to pursue anything but his vaunted near-end-twists.

The plan didn't even worked as a quasi-revolution.All Bane did was release the rapists,killers and robbers,put guns into their arms and let them ravage the city while holding everyone else hostage with the bomb.

We see no ordinary citizens but criminals and LOS mercenaries.We see no reaction by the citizens,whether they approve the take over,whether they are scared,hopeful,hopeless,nothing.

There's no class war,there's no even a class argument in the film,everything is just a plot point,a device to the plot from point a to point b.

Instead of making Bane a thought provoking idealist who actually wants to see social equality,who wants the corrupt and the greedy to be punished but has brutal means about it,who actually cares about people in his own way unlike Ra's and the Joker, instead of having a citizen revolution where Batman would be torn by consequences of his actions and wouldn't resolve everything with his fists,we received a psychopathic brute who cares only for his ''love''. Instead of contrast of ideologies we received a contrast of fighting proves.Twice.

Bane figuring out Batman's identity and his decision to take the blame over Harvey's murders prior to the film's events would have been brilliant.Perhaps even making it public exploiting Wayne's apparent hypocrisy by being the richest citizen of Gotham,while also being a raving maniac who thinks he's above justice.There's one reason to provoke the masses to react and start damaging other people's properties.That way,Blake's terrible way of finding out Bruce's identity would have been solved too.Unfortunately convenient writing 1-0-1 prevailed and he found out by receiving Gordon's speech a long way into his supposed masterplan.

The trailer promised so so much but the film ended up being a melodramatic conventional comic book film with two many half hearted ideas and concepts that served no deeper purpose but to entertain.And i'm incredibly disappointed by that.

Hey, but it did one billion dollars at the box office, so that is the type of cinema we are going to get in the future.

 

[Micromind]

At all.
Nolan's disinterest in making any kind of political statement is what reduced the film to a cliche evil revenge story,completely nullifying Bane in the process.

The whole point of their plan was to make Batman suffer,then watch Gotham being destroyed.All their rhetoric about corruption,revolution,change was plain nothing.

Out of all the possibilities,political,philosophical,social,Nolan didn't have the guts to pursue anything but his vaunted near-end-twists.

The plan didn't even worked as a quasi-revolution.All Bane did was release the rapists,killers and robbers,put guns into their arms and let them ravage the city while holding everyone else hostage with the bomb.

We see no ordinary citizens but criminals and LOS mercenaries.We see no reaction by the citizens,whether they approve the take over,whether they are scared,hopeful,hopeless,nothing.

There's no class war,there's no even a class argument in the film,everything is just a plot point,a device to the plot from point a to point b.

Instead of making Bane a thought provoking idealist who actually wants to see social equality,who wants the corrupt and the greedy to be punished but has brutal means about it,who actually cares about people in his own way unlike Ra's and the Joker, instead of having a citizen revolution where Batman would be torn by consequences of his actions and wouldn't resolve everything with his fists,we received a psychopathic brute who cares only for his ''love''. Instead of contrast of ideologies we received a contrast of fighting proves.Twice.

Bane figuring out Batman's identity and his decision to take the blame over Harvey's murders prior to the film's events would have been brilliant.Perhaps even making it public exploiting Wayne's apparent hypocrisy by being the richest citizen of Gotham,while also being a raving maniac who thinks he's above justice.There's one reason to provoke the masses to react and start damaging other people's properties.That way,Blake's terrible way of finding out Bruce's identity would have been solved too.Unfortunately convenient writing 1-0-1 prevailed and he found out by receiving Gordon's speech a long way into his supposed masterplan.

The trailer promised so so much but the film ended up being a melodramatic conventional comic book film with two many half hearted ideas and concepts that served no deeper purpose but to entertain.And i'm incredibly disappointed by that.

All your suggestions paint Bane as the hero, who fights social injustice, the man of masses and Batman as a crazy rich guy who is driven by need for revenge, who beats up poor, under privileged, homeless citizens of Gotham who somehow got pulled into a life of crime.

But, this is a movie about Batman/Bruce Wayne not Bane the hero.

 

[Fudgie]

At all.
Nolan's disinterest in making any kind of political statement is what reduced the film to a cliche evil revenge story,completely nullifying Bane in the process.

The whole point of their plan was to make Batman suffer,then watch Gotham being destroyed.All their rhetoric about corruption,revolution,change was plain nothing.

Out of all the possibilities,political,philosophical,social,Nolan didn't have the guts to pursue anything but his vaunted near-end-twists.

The plan didn't even worked as a quasi-revolution.All Bane did was release the rapists,killers and robbers,put guns into their arms and let them ravage the city while holding everyone else hostage with the bomb.

We see no ordinary citizens but criminals and LOS mercenaries.We see no reaction by the citizens,whether they approve the take over,whether they are scared,hopeful,hopeless,nothing.

There's no class war,there's no even a class argument in the film,everything is just a plot point,a device to the plot from point a to point b.

Instead of making Bane a thought provoking idealist who actually wants to see social equality,who wants the corrupt and the greedy to be punished but has brutal means about it,who actually cares about people in his own way unlike Ra's and the Joker, instead of having a citizen revolution where Batman would be torn by consequences of his actions and wouldn't resolve everything with his fists,we received a psychopathic brute who cares only for his ''love''. Instead of contrast of ideologies we received a contrast of fighting proves.Twice.

Bane figuring out Batman's identity and his decision to take the blame over Harvey's murders prior to the film's events would have been brilliant.Perhaps even making it public exploiting Wayne's apparent hypocrisy by being the richest citizen of Gotham,while also being a raving maniac who thinks he's above justice.There's one reason to provoke the masses to react and start damaging other people's properties.That way,Blake's terrible way of finding out Bruce's identity would have been solved too.Unfortunately convenient writing 1-0-1 prevailed and he found out by receiving Gordon's speech a long way into his supposed masterplan.

The trailer promised so so much but the film ended up being a melodramatic conventional comic book film with two many half hearted ideas and concepts that served no deeper purpose but to entertain.And i'm incredibly disappointed by that.

This post rules.

That is my point.... Having a real trigger just makes the decision seem pointless. If they did all this trying to make the time pass before the bomb goes off, then I would have been very happy with the outcome... Honestly.. they should edit the trigger out or make it seem like a bluff.

I do get that people feel a lot more fear if they THINK they can be blown up at any moment, but making it true just makes the film senseless.

The Dark Knight worked so well because of the joker, because the plan was just to take over and do his will, be in power.

On batman begins Rha's doesn't waste time he had a trigger and as soon as he could he was USING it.

Otherwise.. bane was monologuing for 5 months...

Yup. Bane's 5 month take over was one big waste of time.

 

[Anno_Domini]

That is my point.... Having a real trigger just makes the decision seem pointless. If they did all this trying to make the time pass before the bomb goes off, then I would have been very happy with the outcome... Honestly.. they should edit the trigger out or make it seem like a bluff.

I do get that people feel a lot more fear if they THINK they can be blown up at any moment, but making it true just makes the film senseless.

The Dark Knight worked so well because of the joker, because the plan was just to take over and do his will, be in power.

On batman begins Rha's doesn't waste time he had a trigger and as soon as he could he was USING it.

Otherwise.. bane was monologuing for 5 months...

Ra's didn't have a trigger, only an 'ON' button/switch on the microwave emitter, lol.

 

[MAKAVELI25]

At all.
Nolan's disinterest in making any kind of political statement is what reduced the film to a cliche evil revenge story,completely nullifying Bane in the process.

The whole point of their plan was to make Batman suffer,then watch Gotham being destroyed.All their rhetoric about corruption,revolution,change was plain nothing.

Out of all the possibilities,political,philosophical,social,Nolan didn't have the guts to pursue anything but his vaunted near-end-twists.

The plan didn't even worked as a quasi-revolution.All Bane did was release the rapists,killers and robbers,put guns into their arms and let them ravage the city while holding everyone else hostage with the bomb.

We see no ordinary citizens but criminals and LOS mercenaries.We see no reaction by the citizens,whether they approve the take over,whether they are scared,hopeful,hopeless,nothing.

There's no class war,there's no even a class argument in the film,everything is just a plot point,a device to the plot from point a to point b.

Instead of making Bane a thought provoking idealist who actually wants to see social equality,who wants the corrupt and the greedy to be punished but has brutal means about it,who actually cares about people in his own way unlike Ra's and the Joker, instead of having a citizen revolution where Batman would be torn by consequences of his actions and wouldn't resolve everything with his fists,we received a psychopathic brute who cares only for his ''love''. Instead of contrast of ideologies we received a contrast of fighting proves.Twice.

Bane figuring out Batman's identity and his decision to take the blame over Harvey's murders prior to the film's events would have been brilliant.Perhaps even making it public exploiting Wayne's apparent hypocrisy by being the richest citizen of Gotham,while also being a raving maniac who thinks he's above justice.There's one reason to provoke the masses to react and start damaging other people's properties.That way,Blake's terrible way of finding out Bruce's identity would have been solved too.Unfortunately convenient writing 1-0-1 prevailed and he found out by receiving Gordon's speech a long way into his supposed masterplan.

The trailer promised so so much but the film ended up being a melodramatic conventional comic book film with two many half hearted ideas and concepts that served no deeper purpose but to entertain.And i'm incredibly disappointed by that.

Best post in the thread thus far. Bane and Talia's plot is STUPID. In addition to too much John Blake, too little screentime for other characters (Gordon, Catwoman, Bane), and the 8 year exile, the main villain's motivation is what makes this the least watchable entry in the trilogy for me.

 

[TheBat812]

The differences in Ra's Al Ghul and his daughter & Bane is that Ra's loyalty to justice was stronger than his personal problems. It's reversed for Bane and Talia. Everything is in honor and a vengeance for someone else. Bane's honor is in honor of Talia. Talia's actions are in honor of her father. Everything is personal.

Which is why their plan isn't rational from a logistical perspective. The League is no longer acting logical because it's not. It's personal. Talia views Bruce/Batman as the killer of her father, and the destroyer of true justice. He's the lover of the world. The devil in her eyes. Bane views Bruce/Batman as the trophy he can win and his torture as the defining expression of affection he has for Talia. He did everything she wanted for her. He was going to die by her side.

Killing Gotham wasn't all they could do. They could inspire a revolution in it. Let them divide against themselves. Let them deceive themselves that they could be saved. All to prove a point to the world watching - and - to make Bruce Wayne suffer the worst fate imaginable. Bruce said to Ra's in Batman Begins, "There are good people here." If Bane could let the world and Bruce see that there isn't, his goals in his life, his reason for being who he was... would have all been for naught. He would have no purpose. No reason to rise from the darkness.

This is exactly why Kargo's complaint is merely his own opinion of what he would liked to have seen, but where he misses Nolan's goal with the character. Many of you act like once something is set up in a world, it's set in stone, when in reality, ideals are ever changing, and people are constantly pushing their own agendas under the guise of another. Bruce was both Gotham and Ra's' favorite son and both Bane and Talia resented it. It's a brilliant mirror to Bruce, who initially starts being Batman under the guise of justice, but underneath was doing it to fight his guilt for his parents death which he could never find closure for since Chill was killed before he could do it. Only in TDKR does he realize his reasonings were ultimately unpure.

To miss things like this is to miss alot of the subtext and great characterization. To disagree with the direction Nolan took is one thing, but to think his reasonings aren't deeply important to the characters is wrong. Many times his characters do one thing, and realize they were wrong - ie Alfred always helping Bruce (realizes he shouldn't have), Gordon lying to the people to put the Dent act in place, when it was never more than an illusionary patch, etc. These are important and human errors, which directly fuel where the story goes next.

And to think Nolan doesn't make any political statement is folly when the entire trilogy is full of nothing but the political implications and effects of Bruce's actions as a "big brother" watcher to the citizens, which ends up cleaning the streets, but not cleaning up corruption.

I dunno, there's a lot in these films that, reading some of the comments and responses, people seem to clearly miss, maybe in looking for what they wanted out of the films, not what Nolan was trying to tell. Many of the ideas to 'improve' the film were probably discussed but thrown out, because it is not central to Bruce's story. Kargo's point about class warfare is moot, because the point is that all of Gotham is in this together, regardless of class - an incredibly important point to the films (and logistically makes no sense since the rich are either killed by Bane, and everybody else is hiding indoors afraid of the terrorist regime - where the hell would this even go even if it were necessary?). Bane's motivation isn't stupid, it's actually way more interesting than him being strictly an idealist. He was an idealist for pride (to prove to Ra's that he was worthy of his daughter, and then to prove it to Talia), as was Bruce initially. Excellent parallel. Talia also seemed to have renounced her ideals in anger towards her father, only to use them later to avenger her father's death. These things aren't black and white, and that's why they're so well done. They are contradictory only in the sense that the character is or evolving. To say that the film was "a melodramatic conventional comic book film with two many half hearted ideas and concepts that served no deeper purpose but to entertain" is fair enough as your opinion, but incredibly wrong, when pretty much every single decision can be linked back to Bruce's story, and enhances it.

 

[MAKAVELI25]

Bruce was both Gotham and Ra's' favorite son and both Bane and Talia resented it. It's a brilliant mirror to Bruce, who initially starts being Batman under the guise of justice, but underneath was doing it to fight his guilt for his parents death which he could never find closure for since Chill was killed before he could do it. Only in TDKR does he realize his reasonings were ultimately unpure.

This, like much of your following post, is based on conjecture.

1. There is no evidence that Bane and Talia even knew who Bruce was before Ra's died. How would you even know that they resented him for being "Ra's favorite son"?

2. How does Bruce realize that his reasons were ultimately unpure? He even says at one point that the point of Batman was that anyone could be Batman. Doesn't sound unpure to me. The thing Bruce realizes is that he doesn't need to live in misery forever, there is life after Batman.

Bane's motivation isn't stupid, it's actually way more interesting than him being strictly an idealist. He was an idealist for pride (to prove to Ra's that he was worthy of his daughter, and then to prove it to Talia), as was Bruce initially. Excellent parallel.

1. Who is claiming that Bane should be an idealist? All we have been saying is that Bane should have a higher purpose for destroying Gotham than because Talia wants him to. The whole plan is a violation of the League of Shadows original mission statement: If the purpose of the League is to destroy cities that are crime-ridden in order to make the world safer, WHY DESTROY A CITY THAT IS AMONGST THE SAFEST IN THE COUNTRY?

2. The bolded is again conjecture on your part. The movie never shows that Bane is trying to prove anything to Ra's, stop using your own assumptions as evidence for your argument. And how is Bruce an "idealist for pride" in Batman Begins? He becomes Batman because he is lost, angry, and needs a sense of direction. Where does pride come in the picture? To be honest, I don't even think the term "idealist for pride" even makes sense.

No disrespect meant, but you did nothing to effectively undermine Kargo's argument.

 

[The Joker]

This, like much of your following post, is based on conjecture.

I've noticed a lot of that in some of these defense posts. No offense to the people making them. It's just a lot of the theories and excuses used are baseless theories with nothing in the movies to support them.

For example, TheBat812 tried to claim last night in another thread that Bane and Talia had infiltrated the government. Where was that?