Why HULK? WHYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!

[November Rain]

Well somtimes it works.Why?Because I'll explain.When parents go to the store be it action figures,Birthday parties etc.They go with what is familar.
They may say"Gee I don't know who this cable guy is or this Gambit person is but.....Hey I know him.I'll buy this one".

Micky Mouse has no current cartoons on comic books or what have you.

But when people go to the store they say hmmm..."Oh okay Micky Mouse.I can't go wrong with Micky Mouse.

Somtimes being a Pop Culture Icon is all about sales.Being recognizable on the shelf.

That may be why the Hulk movies were able survive to some degree.If no one had ever heard of him and the movies came out I doubt they would have made any money at all.

but is that solely down to a tv series which did a poor characterisation job.

 

[Hmarrs]

Cap this isn't about Opinion.

If you gave an average person a backlog of hulk stories and then showed him the film, he'd say there was very little correlation between the characters, especially in the last one which was a movie of the tv series.

that's not bruce's relationship with betty
that't not bruce's relationship with ross
that's not bruce's relationship with blonsky
there was no bruce relationship with the hulk
that's not betty's relationship with her father
that't not ross' relationship with the hulk (way way too business like, no personal vendetta there at all).


if that is right to you then......infact it's not even right, i've seen you nitpick less on the spidey forums. if deep down you truly believe they couldn't do a better origin story than that, then something is definitely not right.

No offense Cap.I agree.

 

[Hmarrs]

but is that solely down to a tv series which did a poor characterisation job.

I'm sorry I didn't get the question.

 

[November Rain]

I agee with you there.
With the exeption that the the original story line can sell.It's all about how you sell it.

of course it could sell and that's what they told us they would be doing, going back to basics telling the origin story. On screen it could very well be as iconic than any other origin story.

the mere picture of a man getting hit by a gamma explosion seconds after saving someone else would be beautiful. A real tragic start to a real tragic character.

Not some cocky scientist doing tests on himself while winking at his missus, then killing nearly everyone and running off. Goooooo Marvel

 

[November Rain]

I'm sorry I didn't get the question.

did he become a pop culture icon because people liked the comic book character or because there was limited good tv and they had it beamed into their television on an almost religious basis?

what was the hook that made him an icon (and did it have anything to do with marvel)?

 

[Hmarrs]

of course it could sell and that's what they told us they would be doing, going back to basics telling the origin story. On screen it could very well be as iconic than any other origin story.

the mere picture of a man getting hit by a gamma explosion seconds after saving someone else would be beautiful. A real tragic start to a real tragic character.

Not some cocky scientist doing tests on himself while winking at his missus, then killing nearly everyone and running off. Goooooo Marvel

Agreed.

 

[Hmarrs]

did he become a pop culture icon because people liked the comic book character or because there was limited good tv and they had it beamed into their television on an almost religious basis?

what was the hook that made him an icon (and did it have anything to do with marvel)?

All of the above.

 

[November Rain]

What are you talking about? The Hulk comic has been out-selling every Wolverine/X-Men comic for the past four months!

See for yourself: http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales.html

i was really talking about movie media here.

comics are hard to gauge since you have longstanding fanbase who collect for the sake of it.

what would be more interesting to see would be number of new regular readers after the hulk films in comparison to the 90s x-men cartoons, the x-men films and the new wolverine film (especially with the trade paperback of origins).

 

[November Rain]

All of the above.

alright, so we can agree that marvel don't like him.

i'm happy to say that he is a household name and a marvel allstar character (top three all time perhaps) but i don't think he'll be a top three film character/mass money generator until someone does a hulk begins type film and takes the jeykll/hyde thing seriously (with hulk talking).

Again like doom, i do think he operates best as a guest star in today's mass media format where he doesn't necessariliy need much depth (because the general audience aren't aware of it) and he doesn't need to carry a film but can really enhance a scene or two with his presence.

 

[Hmarrs]

alright, so we can agree that marvel don't like him.

i'm happy to say that he is a household name and a marvel allstar character (top three all time perhaps) but i don't think he'll be a top three film character/mass money generator until someone does a hulk begins type film and takes the jeykll/hyde thing seriously (with hulk talking).

Again like doom, i do think he operates best as a guest star in today's mass media format where he doesn't necessariliy need much depth (because the general audience aren't aware of it) and he doesn't need to carry a film but can really enhance a scene or two with his presence.

I don't get how you come to the conclusion that Marvel don't like him.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Cap this isn't about Opinion.

If you gave an average person a backlog of hulk stories and then showed him the film, he'd say there was very little correlation between the characters, especially in the last one which was a movie of the tv series.

that's not bruce's relationship with betty
that't not bruce's relationship with ross
that's not bruce's relationship with blonsky
there was no bruce relationship with the hulk
that's not betty's relationship with her father
that't not ross' relationship with the hulk (way way too business like, no personal vendetta there at all).


if that is right to you then......infact it's not even right, i've seen you nitpick less on the spidey forums. if deep down you truly believe they couldn't do a better origin story than that, then something is definitely not right.

And the same can be said about the X-Films:

That's not how Logan met the X-Men
That's not how Warren met the X-Men
That's not the relationship between Logan and Sabertooth (strangers? Not!)
That's not how the X-Men even dress
That's not the relationship between Magneto and Mystique...

That in no way proves anything.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

i was really talking about movie media here.
.

That's not what you said. You said no one wants to spend money on the comic. And i quote:

"what good is having a recognisable character if no one wants to spend money on the comic to read about them or cares about the movies they are in?"

 

[November Rain]

And the same can be said about the X-Films:

That's not how Logan met the X-Men
That's not how Warren met the X-Men
That's not the relationship between Logan and Sabertooth (strangers? Not!)
That's not how the X-Men even dress
That's not the relationship between Magneto and Mystique...

That in no way proves anything.

a) x-men wasn't done by marvel themselves

b) the essence of the story remained

those aspects you mentioned are not central to the x-men story which are people who are persecuted for being different and how xavier/magneto wish to resolve the matter.

 

[Chewy]

The essence of The Incredible Hulk remained as well. You're kind of defeating your own argument here.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

a) x-men wasn't done by marvel themselves

b) the essence of the story remained

those aspects you mentioned are not central to the x-men story which are people who are persecuted for being different and how xavier/magneto wish to resolve the matter.

And the essense of The Hulk remained: A scientist on the run from the military while seeking a cure.

That goes all the way back to the Lee/Kirby days.

 

[November Rain]

That's not what you said. You said no one wants to spend money on the comic. And i quote:

"what good is having a recognisable character if no one wants to spend money on the comic to read about them or cares about the movies they are in?"

alright, well how many new fans has the new film generated then?

so who has gone out of the movie theatre a hulk virgin and started reading the books?

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

The essence of The Incredible Hulk remained as well. You're kind of defeating your own argument here.

Thank you.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

alright, well how many new fans has the new film generated then?

so who has gone out of the movie theatre a hulk virgin and started reading the books?

What does any of that have to do with the discussion?

Again; no one is arguing Wolverine's current popularity. But worldwide recognition belongs to The Hulk.

 

[November Rain]

The essence of The Incredible Hulk remained as well. You're kind of defeating your own argument here.

Well it didn't because the reason banner was on the run was because ross had a personal vendetta with destroying the hulk, not harnessing power from it. That was always the leader's goal with the creature.

You cant have running for running sake.

and even within this running you had banner's loathing of his alternate ego and likewise in a weird twisted duality and they both loved betty and she cared for them both.

when you look at the details, you see it's off. Let's not even talk about the rick jones aspect of it all.

 

[Chewy]

He was running because Ross wanted to capture him. The specifics are different, but the essence of the story is the same.

 

[November Rain]

What does any of that have to do with the discussion?

Again; no one is arguing Wolverine's current popularity. But worldwide recognition belongs to The Hulk.

This recognition is a false one because the average person knows diddly squat about the comic book character hulk.

bats, supes, spidey, wolverine (apart from real name), you can get alot out of them about it.

hulk. apart from strong and green and madder/stronger, no one really gives a hoot.

he's like that kid in school everyone knows but no one invites out on a saturday night.

 

[Chewy]

bats, supes, spidey, wolverine (apart from real name), you can get alot out of them about it.

If you showed average joe a picture of Wolverine in his comic costume (without the claws extended) they probably wouldn't recognize him.

 

[November Rain]

He was running because Ross wanted to capture him. The specifics are different, but the essence of the story is the same.

the running/capturing is a 'specific', it is not the essence of their relationship.

it's like saying webbing is an essence of spider. It's a characteristic specific but the essence of the character is a kid who ****ed up for being selfish and is trying to make ammends with the world and himself.

that's why spidey lost a lil of its essence because they removed the fact spidey was an ass and didn't stop the burglar for no reason and made him into a victim of a selfish fight promoter's greed. Meh....

 

[November Rain]

If you showed average joe a picture of Wolverine in his comic costume (without the claws extended) they probably wouldn't recognize him.

that's like saying if you showed people a picture of the hulk in banner form, they wouldn't recognise him.



besides, it's not like his first scene in the x-men film had any claws in it and that was a beautiful scene with him, probably jackmen's best.

 

[Hmarrs]

You know I could go either way.Both Arguments or rather discussions are very intriging.
I think what Rain is trying to say is that although both variated from Origin.There was alot of emotional content and releationship between characters that was lost.As opposed to the X-men it was the emotional relationship that saved the movie even though it varited from the source.
In that aspect I must agree.I love the Hulk he is my favorite Character but I could not get myself to care what happened next in the film.That may be why X 3 was so bad.Synger knew how to tap into that.

Although honestly I was upset with both depictions X-men and Hulk.I wish they were closer.
Most of all Hulk.
His origin story is so awesome there was no need to change it.What they substituted it for was bleh.
No if they can get me so engulfed with the characters then I might forget while I'm watching like the X-men.
Not Hulk there was no depth at all and Ang Lee had to much depth.

The Hulk is difficult to relate and difficult to bring to screen especially in CGI.
SO what do you do?You go with what has worked for the past 40 somthing years.