Why the hate for Wolverine?

[The Original Bamfer]

I have to respectfully disagree with you there. Wolverine most definitely loves Jean Grey -- truly, madly, and deeply. I do not read comic books myself, but those who do have even confirmed this -- that Jean is always listed among Wolverine's true loves.

I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say they stripped Wolverine of what made him such an appeal to everyone. Do you mean everyone liked him until they said he loved Jean? But he professes his love for Jean even in the first film, when he says his heart belongs to her. So I don't understand what you mean.

Eh, to me, being a comic-reader, I would put it as an intense crush. But, even if he did secretly 'love' her, I couldn't see him actually saying it.

 

[undomiel]

Eh, to me, being a comic-reader, I would put it as an intense crush. But, even if he did secretly 'love' her, I couldn't see him actually saying it.

So what, in your opinion, is the difference between a "crush" and true love? And why do you think he wouldn't say that he loved her?

 

[The Original Bamfer]

So what, in your opinion, is the difference between a "crush" and true love? And why do you think he wouldn't say that he loved her?

In X3, he was turned into Cyclops. The way he approached situations, and what not, he was the leader. A leader, which Wolverine never is. Even in the book, where he still killed Jean, he was much more himself. cyclops would confess his love; Wolverine wouldn't. Being bottled up in terms of emotion is Wolverine's game.

 

[Bastila]

In X3, he was turned into Cyclops. The way he approached situations, and what not, he was the leader. A leader, which Wolverine never is. Even in the book, where he still killed Jean, he was much more himself. cyclops would confess his love; Wolverine wouldn't. Being bottled up in terms of emotion is Wolverine's game.

I so agree with that, they did try to turn him into Scott, but he will never ben Scott, also that makes me dislike him even more.

 

[The Batman]

I love that people are supposedly jealous of wolverine and storm....

Looking at X3, theres nothing to envy. People only remember storm because shes being played by halle berry....who dosent even portray the character right. Same with Hugh. both characters were screwed to cater to the general audience. I'm glad that didnt happen with Cyclops. For the two scenes he was in, he didnt make me cringe like jackman and berry did.

Thats also why i like Cyclops. Unlike Wolverine, he dosent hog the spotlight. He serves the story as the leader of the team. He still actually feels like a character, not a pathetic shell of himself like logan is today.

 

[My Red Sight]

Quality vs Quantity

 

[LastSunrise1981]

I love that people are supposedly jealous of wolverine and storm....

Looking at X3, theres nothing to envy. People only remember storm because shes being played by halle berry....who dosent even portray the character right. Same with Hugh. both characters were screwed to cater to the general audience. I'm glad that didnt happen with Cyclops. For the two scenes he was in, he didnt make me cringe like jackman and berry did.

Thats also why i like Cyclops. Unlike Wolverine, he dosent hog the spotlight. He serves the story as the leader of the team. He still actually feels like a character, not a pathetic shell of himself like logan is today.

The only time Logan was more like himself was in X1 and in X2. Both of those films were very faithful to the character of Logan.

I always said that Storm was miscasted from the beginning. I always said Storm should be played by Angela Bassett. But we all know X3 would've turned out differently if Singer had stayed, and Fox hadn't hired three yes-men in the process.

For me Angela looks like Storm and some of her roles are very similiar to what Storm's character is all about.

 

[The Batman]

and i've said this before, but all these people trying to say "Marsden didnt have 'it" or "Marsden wouldnt have gotten a big role" are trying to DISCOURAGE Cyke fans. They dont want you to put the blame where it belongs. They wanna make you think Cyke never had a chance in these films. They wanna make it seem like Singer was intent on screwing Cyke over.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

and i've said this before, but all these people trying to say "Marsden didnt have 'it" or "Marsden wouldnt have gotten a big role" are trying to DISCOURAGE Cyke fans. They dont want you to put the blame where it belongs. They wanna make you think Cyke never had a chance in these films. They wanna make it seem like Singer was intent on screwing Cyke over.

Marsden looks like Cyclops and the scenes that involved him in X1 was pure Cyclops.

I knew Marsden had it at the end of X2; where his performance at the end moved me to tears. It's shame when we think about what could've/should've been.

 

[ntcrawler]

Marsden looks like Cyclops and the scenes that involved him in X1 was pure Cyclops.

When I first saw him in X1, I thought he looked a little too young, until I realized what the castinrg people are trying to do. The difference in age between Marsden and Janssen is 6-7, exactly the same as the difference in age between the characters. What you see is EXACTLY how they would look relative to each other. What's this woman doing with that young man? That's the point! The fact that she sees something in him enough to give her heart and soul to him should give credit to her strength, not blame her for bad taste!

I just rewatched X1 yesterday. What I saw totally blew away what people were complaining about Cyclops being in the background or an incompetent or non-existent leader and everyone else overriding his orders or ideas. More on this later.

I knew Marsden had it at the end of X2; where his performance at the end moved me to tears. It's shame when we think about what could've/should've been.

I knew exactly how he felt at that moment and I was feeling exactly the same way he has. You could feel the loss and his pain. And yes, there was alot of potential here that we saw a preview of in the first 10 minutes of X3, that was suddenly wasted. Until Wolverine came back and started acting less like the Wolverine we know from X1 and X2 and more like Cyclops. Inspirational speeches, leadership, family-man, professing love to Jean, etc. I can accept some poetic freedom, but this is taking things too far out of context.

 

[ntcrawler]

and i've said this before, but all these people trying to say "Marsden didnt have 'it" or "Marsden wouldnt have gotten a big role" are trying to DISCOURAGE Cyke fans.

That is so true and what really cracks me up is that the last time you posted this someone replied after a few minutes and did exactly what you warned us about. Yes, they tried to discourage us, haha. After rewatching X1 last night I KNOW you're right!

[/quote]
They dont want you to put the blame where it belongs. They wanna make you think Cyke never had a chance in these films. They wanna make it seem like Singer was intent on screwing Cyke over.[/quote]

To make it easier for us to accept Cyclops' demise and embrace his replacement and not miss the guy like the cast obviously didn't during the course of X3? I don't think so...

 

[Jan Irisi]

and i've said this before, but all these people trying to say "Marsden didnt have 'it" or "Marsden wouldnt have gotten a big role" are trying to DISCOURAGE Cyke fans. They dont want you to put the blame where it belongs. They wanna make you think Cyke never had a chance in these films. They wanna make it seem like Singer was intent on screwing Cyke over.

*bangs head against wall*

So...what exactly? We should all blame Jackman then? For doing something right? *gasp* We should blame the audience then for connecting with Jackman's Wolverine moreso than Marsden's Cyclops? *double gasp* Blame Wolverine and Jackman and Singer and Ratner and Rothman for everything that is wrong with the world?

No one is trying to discourage anything. Frankly, you all are doing a great job of that all by yourselves. If anything, it is the complete reverse. It is the Wolverine fans, or anyone who happens to speak in his (a fictional character mind you) or even Jackman's defense who are continually and unfairly beaten up on.

Do you in all honesty believe that there was this conspiracy? This "Screw Cyclops over" conspiracy? Really? You mean to tell me that all concerned sat around a table at Fox and chuckled over their ideas to "screw Cyclops over"?

Dear God.....

In my opinion, Marsden was the wrong choice for the role. An actor with a greater impact on the audience would have done the character a lot more justice right from the beginning. Marsden did not have what it took to stand out alongside McKellen and Jackman in the first film. The character of Cyclops demands an actor that has an impact on the audience. It demands an actor who can portray strength of character and leadership qualities even without a single line uttered.

All of this "he didn't have a chance" and "he was handicapped by the visor" and "Jackman hogged all the spotlight" and "Singer set out to screw Cyclops from the beginning" are all just hollow bitter arguements, and have little validity whatsoever.

 

[danoyse]

*bangs head against wall*

So...what exactly? We should all blame Jackman then? For doing something right? *gasp* We should blame the audience then for connecting with Jackman's Wolverine moreso than Marsden's Cyclops? *double gasp* Blame Wolverine and Jackman and Singer and Ratner and Rothman for everything that is wrong with the world?

No one is trying to discourage anything. Frankly, you all are doing a great job of that all by yourselves. If anything, it is the complete reverse. It is the Wolverine fans, or anyone who happens to speak in his (a fictional character mind you) or even Jackman's defense who are continually and unfairly beaten up on.

Do you in all honesty believe that there was this conspiracy? This "Screw Cyclops over" conspiracy? Really? You mean to tell me that all concerned sat around a table at Fox and chuckled over their ideas to "screw Cyclops over"?

Dear God.....

In my opinion, Marsden was the wrong choice for the role. An actor with a greater impact on the audience would have done the character a lot more justice right from the beginning. Marsden did not have what it took to stand out alongside McKellen and Jackman in the first film. The character of Cyclops demands an actor that has an impact on the audience. It demands an actor who can portray strength of character and leadership qualities even without a single line uttered.

All of this "he didn't have a chance" and "he was handicapped by the visor" and "Jackman hogged all the spotlight" and "Singer set out to screw Cyclops from the beginning" are all just hollow bitter arguements, and have little validity whatsoever.

::APPLAUDS::

 

[gambitfire]

*bangs head against wall*

So...what exactly? We should all blame Jackman then? For doing something right? *gasp* We should blame the audience then for connecting with Jackman's Wolverine moreso than Marsden's Cyclops? *double gasp* Blame Wolverine and Jackman and Singer and Ratner and Rothman for everything that is wrong with the world?

I don't think he blamed Jackman. He never said who to blame really.
But No I don't blame Jackman I blame FOX. Again Jackman was the focus you can't expect People to have connected with a background character. Hell if connection is what gives a character more screen time then no one liked any character except Wolverine and Storm.
Wrong with the world blame who, what now? Breathe in.....Breathe out.

No one is trying to discourage anything. Frankly, you all are doing a great job of that all by yourselves. If anything, it is the complete reverse. It is the Wolverine fans, or anyone who happens to speak in his (a fictional character mind you) or even Jackman's defense who are continually and unfairly beaten up on.

Discouraged about what? What's done is done. I'm just here to discuss about it with everyone who feels like me. I don't pick on you guys. I don't go into threads where i don't belong. Im not saying you Wolverine fans do that, but i don't so as far being beaten up well this thread is the right place for it to occure .

Do you in all honesty believe that there was this conspiracy? This "Screw Cyclops over" conspiracy? Really? You mean to tell me that all concerned sat around a table at Fox and chuckled over their ideas to "screw Cyclops over"?

No Conspiracy i think FOX was pretty Blunt about.

THE WRITERS SAID SO THEMSELVES!! What more proof do you want?
It was intended from the start, is that so hard to believe. Because im so sure big name studios like FOX like to play nice.

Dear God.....

In my opinion, Marsden was the wrong choice for the role. An actor with a greater impact on the audience would have done the character a lot more justice right from the beginning. Marsden did not have what it took to stand out alongside McKellen and Jackman in the first film. The character of Cyclops demands an actor that has an impact on the audience. It demands an actor who can portray strength of character and leadership qualities even without a single line uttered.

Well in all fairness it is your opinion but he really was never given this chance so it's unfair to throw him into the wrong choice category. If you think about it Jackman resembles nothing of Wolverine. While Marsden not only looked like his character but acted like it. He just wasn't written like it and that isn't his fault.

All of this "he didn't have a chance" and "he was handicapped by the visor" and "Jackman hogged all the spotlight" and "Singer set out to screw Cyclops from the beginning" are all just hollow bitter arguements, and have little validity whatsoever.

If we said Singer was set out to screw Cyclops then we would contradict our theory that he would of made him more in important in his X3. I don't recall anyone saying Singer screwed Cyclops. FOX on the other hand. As for hollow bitter arguments, Well fine the writers where BSing everyone loves wolverine and this is all some sick trend we are having.

 

[x-fan]

i kinda wonder what would have happened if jackman had been cyke and james had been wolverine wonder if the tables would have turned?

i love wolvie as a character, he did cry when mariko died the cover featured him crying like a baby, he did lead the team for a short time back in the 90's he has a thing for jean because she is the spitting image of rose his first love and jean has had a thing for logan since the first time she seen him in the comics she is drawn to his animal magnetism. in the movie pheonix was shreddeding everything within 100 ft of her who but wolverine could have gotten close enough to stop her? she never said she loved logan too she just understood that he was willing to give his life to save her because he loved her, she still loved scott in the movie but like some others said she understood logans pain and reacted by lowering her defenses. wolverine has always been the one to kill pheonix in the comics except the first time when she flew into the sun, thanks for reading

 

[gambitfire]

Okay that's it im going to say it..........

Im getting tired of Debating with all this new poser fans who act like they really care about the character when they have only been fans for like the past 3 years. Or 6 w/e.

All of sudden this is as a valuable to you as it is to us.

i think it's clear most Cyclops fans have been X-Men fans for a long time now, since there wasn't much of a Cyclops to become of fan of in the movies.

I feel like we valued this more and wanted this more. Unlike these Wolverine is really cool i loved all 3 of his movies, and hugh jackmans i oooh sooo good looking, fans.

 

[gambitfire]

i kinda wonder what would have happened if jackman had been cyke and james had been wolverine wonder if the tables would have turned?

i love wolvie as a character, he did cry when mariko died the cover featured him crying like a baby, he did lead the team for a short time back in the 90's he has a thing for jean because she is the spitting image of rose his first love and jean has had a thing for logan since the first time she seen him in the comics she is drawn to his animal magnetism. in the movie pheonix was shreddeding everything within 100 ft of her who but wolverine could have gotten close enough to stop her? she never said she loved logan too she just understood that he was willing to give his life to save her because he loved her, she still loved scott in the movie but like some others said she understood logans pain and reacted by lowering her defenses. wolverine has always been the one to kill pheonix in the comics except the first time when she flew into the sun, thanks for reading

The tables can't turn. Marsden is nothing like Wolverine, atleast Jackman can grow hair and try too look like him but Marsden is nowhere close.

So for Wolverine she is able to gain some kind of Control but not for Scott.

Of course it all makes sense.

That's right i forgot about the resemblence he saw in Jean. Even more proof that it's but an overrated crush, lust, or sick infatuation.

 

[x-fan]

Okay that's it im going to say it..........

Im getting tired of Debating with all this new poser fans who act like they really care about the character when they have only been fans for like the past 3 years. Or 6 w/e.

All of sudden this is as a valuable to you as it is to us.

i think it's clear most Cyclops fans have been X-Men fans for a long time now, since there wasn't much of a Cyclops to become of fan of in the movies.

I feel like we valued this more and wanted this more. Unlike these Wolverine is really cool i loved all 3 of his movies, and hugh jackmans i oooh sooo good looking, fans.

i have been an xmen fan since i was 12 years old ...im 38 now. i enjoy the movies as an alternate universe much like the what if stories told on screen. they have not yet made a good "xmen" movie maybe when marvel finally gets the rights back (looks off dreaming) ...............

 

[danoyse]

Im getting tired of Debating with all this new poser fans who act like they really care about the character when they have only been fans for like the past 3 years. Or 6 w/e.

Oh, there are qualifications for being a fan? They didn't check my knowledge of X-Men comics or cartoons before they let me into the theater when I saw any of the movies.

So a fan for entirely different reasons than you is a poser?

i think it's clear most Cyclops fans have been X-Men fans for a long time now, since there wasn't much of a Cyclops to become of fan of in the movies.

I think that's what we're all trying to point out...why people who came into fandom through the movies are more connected to Wolverine than of Cyclops.

I feel like we valued this more and wanted this more. Unlike these Wolverine is really cool i loved all 3 of his movies, and hugh jackmans i oooh sooo good looking, fans.

You're the only one who's been saying that so far. We've just been pointing out why we thought one actor portrayed the role better.

For the record, I think James Marsden is a terrific actor--but I like him better in other roles than Cyclops, because he's played much better characters and has had a chance to stand out more.

 

[The Batman]

That is so true and what really cracks me up is that the last time you posted this someone replied after a few minutes and did exactly what you warned us about. Yes, they tried to discourage us, haha. After rewatching X1 last night I KNOW you're right!

They dont want you to put the blame where it belongs. They wanna make you think Cyke never had a chance in these films. They wanna make it seem like Singer was intent on screwing Cyke over.[/quote]

To make it easier for us to accept Cyclops' demise and embrace his replacement and not miss the guy like the cast obviously didn't during the course of X3? I don't think so...[/QUOTE]


More importantly, they want you to shut up.

They dont like the fact that people are complaining so much about X3. They didnt like it when the film was in development, telling cyke fans repeatedly to get over it, and they dont like it now.

 

[x-fan]

The tables can't turn. Marsden is nothing like Wolverine, atleast Jackman can grow hair and try too look like him but Marsden is nowhere close.

So for Wolverine she is able to gain some kind of Control but not for Scott.

Of course it all makes sense.

That's right i forgot about the resemblence he saw in Jean. Even more proof that it's but an overrated crush, lust, or sick infatuation.

my point was i wonder if his role, i mean cykes role would have been bigger with jackman playing him rather than james, and her looking like rose is what drew him too her it is her personality that he is in love with. i just saying it all falls into the comics somewhere

 

[gambitfire]

Oh, there are qualifications for being a fan? They didn't check my knowledge of X-Men comics or cartoons before they let me into the theater when I saw any of the movies.

So a fan for entirely different reasons than you is a poser?

Not really but this would qualify to fall under the you don't understand how dissapointing this was too us category.

I think that's what we're all trying to point out...why people who came into fandom through the movies are more connected to Wolverine than of Cyclops..

That's what ive been doing too. But it seems to be dismissed so easily.

You're the only one who's been saying that so far. We've just been pointing out why we thought one actor portrayed the role better.

For the record, I think James Marsden is a terrific actor--but I like him better in other roles than Cyclops, because he's played much better characters and has had a chance to stand out more.

So? Therefore im wrong?

I disagree with your opinion but atleast you admit the had a chance to stand out more part.

 

[gambitfire]

my point was i wonder if his role, i mean cykes role would have been bigger with jackman playing him rather than james, and her looking like rose is what drew him too her it is her personality that he is in love with. i just saying it all falls into the comics somewhere

i honeslty don't know cuz i can't picture it happening .

I actually understand he has strong feelings for her but they can never even closely compare that what Cyke and Jean have and everything they have gone through.

 

[danoyse]

Not really but this would qualify to fall under the you don't understand how dissapointing this was too us category.

We do understand. I didn't like they killed him off so quickly in X3. What we don't get is why all the hate needs to be focused on a fictional character (he can't hear you), and the people who like him.

So? Therefore im wrong?

You were never wrong when it came to your opinion.

I disagree with your opinion but atleast you admit the had a chance to stand out more part.

I always thought that.

I think what we're trying to point out, and what seems to not be reaching...are the reasons why we think the character didn't connect with audiences who weren't familiar with the comics. Myself, for instance, who didn't know them at all before the first movie.

Trust me, we understand your frustration...knowing the comics better now, I know he was given a raw deal (although I can still understand why a studio would be skeptical about giving a guy with his face under a visor such a leading role). But I still like the Wolverine character, that didn't change.

But the idea that all the Wolverine fans rejoice in your misery about it is just absurd.

 

[x-fan]

sorry forgot to respond to the other part, jean was trying to destroy logan every step of the way until he was close enough for her to ask why he was willing to die...i aint saying scott shouldnt have been there, but logan should have been the one to kill her. and since this is a what if story to me i was pleased with the movie and will continue to dream for that marvel xmen movie we might one day get