Why the hate for Wolverine?

[gambitfire]

We do understand. I didn't like they killed him off so quickly in X3. What we don't get is why all the hate needs to be focused on a fictional character (he can't hear you), and the people who like him.

Have you read the comic books? THE GUY WAS IN EVERY X-Title.

It's plain and simple why the hate for Wolverine ...

OVEREXPOSURE.

Everyone in this thread has pointed that out. They are just sick of the character is all.

You were never wrong when it came to your opinion.

Darn now if only ppl could make that clear.

I always thought that.

I think what we're trying to point out, and what seems to not be reaching...are the reasons why we think the character didn't connect with audiences who weren't familiar with the comics. Myself, for instance, who didn't know them at all before the first movie.

Trust me, we understand your frustration...knowing the comics better now, I know he was given a raw deal (although I can still understand why a studio would be skeptical about giving a guy with his face under a visor such a leading role). But I still like the Wolverine character, that didn't change.

But the idea that all the Wolverine fans rejoice in your misery about it is just absurd.

Im don't want you to rejoice, im just asnwering the question of thread. But i keep getting attacked when i give the stinkin answer.

 

[The Batman]

*bangs head against wall*

So...what exactly? We should all blame Jackman then? For doing something right? *gasp* We should blame the audience then for connecting with Jackman's Wolverine moreso than Marsden's Cyclops? *double gasp* Blame Wolverine and Jackman and Singer and Ratner and Rothman for everything that is wrong with the world?

No one is trying to discourage anything. Frankly, you all are doing a great job of that all by yourselves. If anything, it is the complete reverse. It is the Wolverine fans, or anyone who happens to speak in his (a fictional character mind you) or even Jackman's defense who are continually and unfairly beaten up on.

Do you in all honesty believe that there was this conspiracy? This "Screw Cyclops over" conspiracy? Really? You mean to tell me that all concerned sat around a table at Fox and chuckled over their ideas to "screw Cyclops over"?

Dear God.....

In my opinion, Marsden was the wrong choice for the role. An actor with a greater impact on the audience would have done the character a lot more justice right from the beginning. Marsden did not have what it took to stand out alongside McKellen and Jackman in the first film. The character of Cyclops demands an actor that has an impact on the audience. It demands an actor who can portray strength of character and leadership qualities even without a single line uttered.

All of this "he didn't have a chance" and "he was handicapped by the visor" and "Jackman hogged all the spotlight" and "Singer set out to screw Cyclops from the beginning" are all just hollow bitter arguements, and have little validity whatsoever.

hahhahahahahah! you guys make me laugh

specifically your last paragraph, which is basically agreeing with me when i say "Singer set out to screw cyclops" and "He didnt have a chance" are hollow arguments. except they're used by posters and Zak Penn himself to discourage cyke fans from thinking hed have an important role in the third flick.

Also the whole "you guys do that yourself" is hilarious. You had no point to that paragraph either did you? All i see is the fact that, Cyke fans are smart enough to know that singer set something up for marsden, and he was screwed.

which leads to my next point:

http://thexverse.com/community/showpost.php?p=20232&postcount=420

Zak Pen FLAT OUT stated that downplaying cyke was in part because of Wolverine. There is no conspiracy. Its fact.

I blame Fox for purposely putting wolverine on a pedestal while downplaying everybody else.

And the fact that you wolverine fans are so defensive is kinda funny. its almost worse than the storm fans. Almost

 

[danoyse]

And the fact that you wolverine fans are so defensive is kinda funny. its almost worse than the storm fans. Almost

Wow, you just completely proved Jan's point with that.

 

[gambitfire]

sorry forgot to respond to the other part, jean was trying to destroy logan every step of the way until he was close enough for her to ask why he was willing to die...i aint saying scott shouldnt have been there, but logan should have been the one to kill her. and since this is a what if story to me i was pleased with the movie and will continue to dream for that marvel xmen movie we might one day get

Really? well if you think that.

IMO she should of sacrificed herself. It would of made more sense too.

Xavier told her don't let it control you. And it would of been good if in the end she doesn't and with that bit of control she gains, she sacrifices herself. True to the story which is the best part . It doesn't leave Xavier pleade in vein.

 

[gambitfire]

NVM i reread it

 

[The Batman]

Nope. It should not.

 

[The Batman]

Wow, you just completely proved Jan's point with that.

She had one?

 

[gambitfire]

Lol

 

[x-fan]

you reread what gambit?

 

[gambitfire]

What The Batmn posted.

 

[x-fan]

Have you read the comic books? THE GUY WAS IN EVERY X-Title.

It's plain and simple why the hate for Wolverine ...

OVEREXPOSURE.

Everyone in this thread has pointed that out. They are just sick of the character is all.

i love wolvie, but i couldnt afford to buy everything he was in so i quit collecting everything but wolverine but i still read the other titles in the store.


and the way i would have ended x3 was to have cyke show up as logan is making his approach and when jean sees him she stops doing everything because she sees the man she loves alive when she thought she had killed him, then she asks logan to hurry because she cant hold back the pheonix much longer, wolvie does it and scott rushes forward and holds her as she dies logan cries silently in the background screen fades to black

 

[AznBABYBANDIT]

and the way i would have ended x3 was to have cyke show up as logan is making his approach and when jean sees him she stops doing everything because she sees the man she loves alive when she thought she had killed him, then she asks logan to hurry because she cant hold back the pheonix much longer, wolvie does it and scott rushes forward and holds her as she dies logan cries silently in the background screen fades to black

I would leak Cyke Dead... No point having chars who come back everytime they die... LOL...

 

[gambitfire]

am i the only who cares enough about jean too not have her killed by someone.

I think it would of been awesome if they where standing before her as she gives somekind of speech and begins to demolecularize herself in Scott's arms.

 

[x-fan]

and the way i would have ended x3 was to have cyke show up as logan is making his approach and when jean sees him she stops doing everything because she sees the man she loves alive when she thought she had killed him, then she asks logan to hurry because she cant hold back the pheonix much longer, wolvie does it and scott rushes forward and holds her as she dies logan cries silently in the background screen fades to black

I would leak Cyke Dead... No point having chars who come back everytime they die... LOL...

it never showed his body so they could say he didnt die...i dont like the cyke character but he deserved better than the movies gave him, im not blaming wolverine for stealing his place cause the movies arent the comics as so many like to point out. but he should have been at the end. and also with logan killing her it would keep the anger between cyke and logan for the next movie to play on

 

[AznBABYBANDIT]

lol, if that happens she will have to demolecrize scott too ;D

 

[x-fan]

am i the only who cares enough about jean too not have her killed by someone.

I think it would of been awesome if they where standing before her as she gives somekind of speech and begins to demolecularize herself in Scott's arms.

or she could have flown into the rapidly set sun

 

[AznBABYBANDIT]

it never showed his body so they could say he didnt die...i dont like the cyke character but he deserved better than the movies gave him, im not blaming wolverine for stealing his place cause the movies arent the comics as so many like to point out. but he should have been at the end

seriously, i still don't get why people bpther to debate whether he died...

I'll try to find Brett one day and ask him... Because on the first part, it just shows cyc's face bubling...
Then when PoffyX died, his face too was bubbling and too was demolecrizing... same thing should have happened to Scottybear

 

[x-fan]

seriously, i still don't get why people bpther to debate whether he died...

I'll try to find Brett one day and ask him... Because on the first part, it just shows cyc's face bubling...
Then when PoffyX died, his face too was bubbling and too was demolecrizing... same thing should have happened to Scottybear

because even though it was a "what if" story cykes place was there at the end he was treated baddly for the series (rinses mouth out) as much as i dislike him i cant believe i am defending him lol

 

[AznBABYBANDIT]

Opinions - Not to be preached like Facts.

and my opinons arn't fact... but close to

 

[ntcrawler]

am i the only who cares enough about jean too not have her killed by someone.

No you're not. I believe in the same thing. That's why it's dangerous to have Cyclops show up at Alcatraz. Jean just realizing he was still alive and she did not kill her would go a long way to helping her come to grips with herself, her anger, and her disbeliefe that life was worth living. Confronting her and saying the right things that only Scott would know how to say could help complete the process.

But of course the writers understood that, so naturally they had to get rid of Cyclops early on so that Jean could fulfill her destiny and be killed at the end. I mean it wouldn't do good to have fewer deaths in a movie that's supposed to END the franchise, right?

 

[ntcrawler]

seriously, i still don't get why people bpther to debate whether he died...

And I don't get why you refuse to listen to facts. You want him dead? Fine. But stop trying to force it on others who have already proved you wrong time and time again. Including the actual actor who played the character in the movie.

Then when PoffyX died, his face too was bubbling and too was demolecrizing... same thing should have happened to Scottybear

But the same thing did not happen. And that's why he's not dead. End of movie, but not end of story.

 

[x-fan]

the fact is this story should have been scotts and jeans, with a good helping of love triangle between them and logan, but the story was theirs i dont hate logan in this version but just like the superman movie was ruined for me by lois having a kid after 75 years of stories and her not having one, and at the end of superman 2 he told the president that he would never leave them again. sr one was suppose to be its sequel he takes off for 6 years. way to lie superman, that was said to say you shouldnt change somethings too much it turns off fans

 

[ntcrawler]

Opinions - Not to be preached like Facts.

Then don't try to use quotes from non-canonical sources like evidence.

and my opinons arn't fact... but close to

Opinions aren't facts. We back up our claims with evidence, not opinions. You base your claims with opinions. You don't understand why Cyclops may not have died? Reread the threads that deal with this topic. If you still can't understand why people feel the way they do, then this whole discussion is pointless as it is obvious that no one will be able to convince you, not even the actual people involved in the production of this movie who said as much.

 

[x-fan]

No you're not. I believe in the same thing. That's why it's dangerous to have Cyclops show up at Alcatraz. Jean just realizing he was still alive and she did not kill her would go a long way to helping her come to grips with herself, her anger, and her disbeliefe that life was worth living. Confronting her and saying the right things that only Scott would know how to say could help complete the process.

But of course the writers understood that, so naturally they had to get rid of Cyclops early on so that Jean could fulfill her destiny and be killed at the end. I mean it wouldn't do good to have fewer deaths in a movie that's supposed to END the franchise, right?

she died in the comic so she had to die in the movie...which is wierd considering how much they were willing to change other things

 

[ntcrawler]

i kinda wonder what would have happened if jackman had been cyke and james had been wolverine wonder if the tables would have turned?


i love wolvie as a character, he did cry when mariko died the cover featured him crying like a baby, he did lead the team for a short time back in the 90's he has a thing for jean because she is the spitting image of rose his first love and jean has had a thing for logan since the first time she seen him in the comics she is drawn to his animal magnetism.

Ehh, not quite. The only time she's attracted to him in a way that would hurt her relationship with Scott is when Morrison takes the helm. Otherwise it's a one-way crush.

in the movie pheonix was shreddeding everything within 100 ft of her who but wolverine could have gotten close enough to stop her?

Scott. Since it's obvious that Wolverine CANNOT regenerate that fast. In X1 he was out for a good 45-60 seconds as a result of his car accident. In the statue of Liberty when he stabbed himsef he was OUT for at least 20-30 seconds. In X2 when shot in the head he was out for the entire battle scene with the police. And now in X3 he's able to instantly regrow entire parts of his body as fast as Jean's TK could rip them off? I don't think so. Sounds like the writers gave him just a little too much favoritism here.

If SCott was there, Jean wouldn't have been disintegrating him like that in the first place. Just knowing that he was alive and that she did not kill him would shake her up enough so that she would at least calm down and listen to him. I realize how the Wolverine fans just hate to admit that but those are the straight facts. Jean and Scott have a bond that goes beyond the basic concepts of love and trust. Logan at no point ever achieved such a bond with Jean. And it is this bond that would prove to be the key to reaching out to Jean and bringing her back. To say otherwise is to try and unfairly discourage Cyclops fans, who understand the magnitude of this relationship the best.

she never said she loved logan too she just understood that he was willing to give his life to save her because he loved her,

He would have given his life to others. Wolverine gave his life several times to protect Marie in X1. To claim he would only die for Jean at this point was a lie since he did otherwise. Unless his opinions of Marie had changed so drastically?

she still loved scott in the movie but like some others said she understood logans pain and reacted by lowering her defenses.

She should have stopped trying to rip him apart instead. That would help take away the pain

wolverine has always been the one to kill pheonix in the comics except the first time when she flew into the sun, thanks for reading

The reason why he killed her in the comics was due to a completely different context. He did it because Jean knew she had to die due to the way the situation was set up in the comics and knew that Cyclops wouldn't be able to bring himself to do it. This is especially evident in Endsong. It's not done out of love or in the context of love, but simply because no one kills her better than Wolverine, and she says so herself. But they definitely do not profess their love for each other at any of these points.