Why the hate for Wolverine?

gambitfire said:
ok that's fine geez i get it you love him, and think he's incredible. That's an opinion all im saying.

That's the point. It's not just me. I didn't fill up every seat in that theater, I didn't conduct those standing ovations. I didn't even see the first X-Men movie until nearly a month after it opened.

Like I said, I'm a jaded theater person, and even I was impressed with his performance. I wasn't a comic book fan, but I loved X-Men. And it wasn't just me--there were tons of people who felt the same and made those things successful. And not because it's *Hugh*, but just that an actor in general has something that appeals to a mass audience.

broadway is great but it took X-Men to get him to where he is hollywood wise, and i have yet to see anything else stick solid to his name.

No, it took X-Men. The American Actors union wouldn't allow him to repeat his performance on Broadway in Oklahoma because they wouldn't let the producers bring over the cast from the London production. It was after the success of X-Men that they allowed him to play on Broadway.

The movie roles he had after X-Men were so-so, but the roles he's gotten since "The Boy From Oz" are much better--"The Fountain," "The Prestige," even working with Woody Allen in "Scoop." It's because of the Broadway thing that he's been getting much better roles than he did right after X-Men.

It's like Tobey, Tobey is great and all but his name only brings up Spider-Man.

To you. I also think of "Ciderhouse Rules" and "Pleasantville."

Someone like Patrick Stewart or Ian Mckellan on the other hand......:)

"Star Trek" and "Lord of the Rings"? I also know them from their stage work.
 
danoyse said:
That's the point. It's not just me. I didn't fill up every seat in that theater, I didn't conduct those standing ovations. I didn't even see the first X-Men movie until nearly a month after it opened.

Like I said, I'm a jaded theater person, and even I was impressed with his performance. I wasn't a comic book fan, but I loved X-Men. And it wasn't just me--there were tons of people who felt the same and made those things successful. And not because it's *Hugh*, but just that an actor in general has something that appeals to a mass audience.

Im sorry but i this seems so unfair when it comes to debating opinions.

Alot of people on here who defend this movie or the character are 1: obviously fans of him, but more bothering to me 2: New the X-world or 3: Huge Woverine fans. So you look at it from one perspective in which case you obviously loved the movie. In our case we had so many reasons to dislike it not just because of Cyclops. Then i get told things need to diverge and i say that's fine but for the better not the worst. The fact is there where alot of dissapointed fans, and most of them where not Wolverine fans, Jackman fans, or New the X-mythos.


danoyse said:
No, it took X-Men. The American Actors union wouldn't allow him to repeat his performance on Broadway in Oklahoma because they wouldn't let the producers bring over the cast from the London production. It was after the success of X-Men that they allowed him to play on Broadway.

The movie roles he had after X-Men were so-so, but the roles he's gotten since "The Boy From Oz" are much better--"The Fountain," "The Prestige," even working with Woody Allen in "Scoop." It's because of the Broadway thing that he's been getting much better roles than he did right after X-Men.
Interesting i didn't know this, but i have yet to see for myself so ill judge when i see. :O :)

danoyse said:
To you. I also think of "Ciderhouse Rules" and "Pleasantville."

Yes i remember Pleasentville but the general audience won't remember him for that. Not everyone has your taste. Also the blockbuster hits speak for themselves :p

danoyse said:
"Star Trek" and "Lord of the Rings"? I also know them from their stage work.

see above post second sentence. They also have alot more previous film work although alot minor.
 
Oh and his appeal is so great that Van Helsing was just mind blowing............:p
 
I don't hate Wolverine, it just bugs me that he completely took Cyclops' role in X3. It should have been Scott confronting Jean at Alcatraz and Wolverine just says what Scott would have said if he were not dead.

But I can't say that I'm suprised that wolverine hogged the screen time in this movie, because it really fits the flow of the other two movies.

X1: Wolverine finding the X-men.
X2: Wolverine descovering stuff from his past.
X3: Wolverine's love for Jean.
 
gambitfire said:
the woman he knew for less than 2 weeks?

Yeah, that one. The one who told him she loved Scott and to back off.
 
you mean the chick who goes on fire at the end of the second movie? was she the same one who was a zombie in the last movie?
Didn't she pick the other guy? the one that was killed by the zombie chick in the beginning of that last movie?

lol :p
 
^ I Swear i heard a similar conversation coming from these 2 guys on the train.
 
gambitfire said:
^ I Swear i heard a similar conversation coming from these 2 guys on the train.

I had a similar conversation with a clerk at Barnes 'n Noble when she saw me picking up a copy of the X3 novel. She looked as dazed and confused as I was. Her first question was: "did Scott... die? Jean really... killed him?".

The poor thing. She couldn't understand it either.
 
gambitfire said:
you mean the chick who goes on fire at the end of the second movie? was she the same one who was a zombie in the last movie?
Didn't she pick the other guy? the one that was killed by the zombie chick in the beginning of that last movie?

lol :p

Yeah that one. Or two. I dunno!!!

See? This supports my claim, that something this preposterous could only happen in a dream. You know how dreams are supposed to be wild and crazy and show you things that don't make sense and couldn't possibly happen in the real world, like the love of your life killing you while kissing and then being "saved" by your arch-nemesis-rival.

Poor Scott, those nightmares after Jean's death have been getting worse.

Actually, that gives me an idea for a scene rewrite [rubs hands together gleefully]
 
The Batman said:
Its in the Xverse's Q and A archives

I checked but must have missed it. I'd really like to see his comments, so can you give a link?
 
im gonna have to get my friends voicemail he got from his dad. This older blackman from brooklyn (although on the phone he sounded like tobey mguire :p) calls his son in miami after seeing X3. He was as speechless as Bryan Singer when he was asked how he felt about the Succes of POTC 2.

This man was a fan since 1963. and i thought i was upset.
 
which left him speechless.

he could barely utter out words.
 
Did you see the interview?

ok im not getting into an argument this is silly anyone who saw that interview knew it got him and bugged the crap out of him. I felt bad for the guy since IMO SR was much better than X3.
 
ntcrawler said:
Yeah, that one. The one who told him she loved Scott and to back off.
She didn´t tell him to back off.
Have you read the X2 novel? Jean´s feelings over Logan were confusing her, and even Storm teased her about it. Even if that scene wasn´t in the movie, there were others which showed she had feelings for him other than concern. When she told Logan "I love him", she never seemed 100% sure about it.
When will people understand that the movieverse is different from the comicverse, and in the X-Men movies Jean and Logan was a very strong possibility? She loved Scott, we all know that, but even the strongest relationships can come to an end. And I´m not even saying it would happen, and that Jean would be with Logan, but why do people get so stressed out when thinking about that possibility, seeing that the movies gave a lot of hints??? :o
 
ntcrawler said:
Professor X, Cyclops, Jean Grey, Storm, Beast, Rogue, Magneto, and Mystique.
Mystique?!? That´s a joke, isn´t it? :o
And why are these characters better that Wolverine?

Sounds like you're running out of arguments so you turn to attacking the haters instead :)
No, the haters are the ones who have to come up with good arguments, since wasting so much time and energy hating a fictional character is so stupid anyway.
Like I´ve already said, I can understand the love for the favorites, but all that senseless hate towards Wolverine is beyond me. It seems that even Hugh is a victim now.
 
Loganbabe said:
She didn´t tell him to back off.

Jean: "Don't make me do this"
Logan: "Do what?"
Jean: [walks away]

Does he need it to be told to his face, spelled out phonetically and acted out with sock puppets to get the message?

Have you read the X2 novel? Jean´s feelings over Logan were confusing her, and even Storm teased her about it.

That exchange inside the X-Jet? Yeah I know about it. Jean had the right idea. Setting up a ROLO would help take the attention off of her.

Even if that scene wasn´t in the movie, there were others which showed she had feelings for him other than concern.

I know that feeling. I have someone like that in my life too. She's concerned about me, she's always there for me, she's always happy to see me, and she loves me. Of course she married someone else and told me we would never be a couple, but those feelings are there. But that never got me anywhere and it's wishful thinking to assume that because someone's happy to see you and worried about you, that she loves you and is open to you.

When she told Logan "I love him", she never seemed 100% sure about it.

You're just not gonna be satisfied, are you? So how the heck is Jean supposed to make it 100% clear to him then? What more could she do? Shove her engagement ring to his face? Slap him? Scott wasn't around for her to grab him and do a tonsilectomy in front of Logan. From his first moments he saw them together he could see them tenerly holding hands in the garage scene, and the fact that they're sharing a suite together should be a big hint, yet Logan doesn't hesitate to keep chiseling in. Why not go after someone who's actually available, like Ororo instead?

When will people understand that the movieverse is different from the comicverse,

That is a very convenient and over-used excuse. Certain concepts must be modified when converting from comics into live action in order to make it believable and realistic. These things usually include the visual appearance, how powers are manifested, costumes, etc. To apply this to how characters behave or how they relate to each other is pushing it. There are certain concepts to the X-men that define what they are. Basic concepts. Such as Scott wearing a visor, Xavier being bald and handicapped, Wolverine having claws and animal reflexes and instincts, Jean being a TK / Telepath, etc. And one of those fundamental concepts is that Jean and Scott are in a long-term, committed relationship. You change any of these, and you change the essense of the X-men.

and in the X-Men movies Jean and Logan was a very strong possibility?

Possibility? Sure, but not the way it's portrayed in the film. In X2 Logan has been around Jean not more than 5-6 days. He knows almost nothing about her. nothing about what she likes, what makes her happy, her favorite color or flower, favorite food, her fears, dreams, hopes and aspirations, or where she's ticklish. ANd by this point he certainly hasn't offered her anything that Scott wasn't able to provide, or what Scott was lacking, or a cure for any of her frustrations that she may have had with Scott's shortcomings. So on what grounds do you base this... possibility? Wishful thinking? Because the cast members look good on camera together? You gotta give more credible evidence than that. A relationship is based on more than physical attraction. If they both like the way they look, then at best you're looking at a fling. But certainly nothing so dangerous that it could threaten to break Jean and Scott apart.
She loved Scott, we all know that, but even the strongest relationships can come to an end.
Again, see above. Nothing ever happened that would threaten to break apart Jean and Scott's relationship. Except to have Scott conveniently "killed" off and Jean's dark side suddenly lusting after Logan. But at that point Jean's obviously a few taco's short of a family pack and Logan knows it. Even before when Jean willingly threw herself at Logan, he knew there was something wrong (Mystique). If you want thot relationship to be broken apart to set up a JELO, you gotta come up with some credible factor to do it. And so far no one's suggested anything credible.

And I´m not even saying it would happen, and that Jean would be with Logan, but why do people get so stressed out when thinking about that possibility, seeing that the movies gave a lot of hints??? :o

I get stressed out when people get ahead of themselves and insist they're practically on the edge of ripping each other's clothes off whereas watching these "hints" that the movies suggest makes it feel otherwise. I don't believe these possibilites are as strong as you or others insist they are. Yes, Jean is in her mid to late 30's by now and has been in a relationship for a while with Scott. It hasn't gotten sour or in Jeopardy, but I can see how sometimes she could be frustrated with him for not having fully recovered from his childhood trauma's, and for maybe not paying enough attention to her or pursuing her (seems she's done most of the chasing herself). Then along comes Logan and doesn't hesitate to throw himself at her, even though he knows she's taken. He finds her attractive and she can sense that lust within him. So I can see how someone in Jean's position would love the attention, and would start dressing up just a bit more elegantly, maybe shaking her butt when walking by for some eye candy and appreciating the compliment. Hey, what good-looking woman who's still in her prime wouldn't? But when it came time to the big test and Logan overstepped his bounds, she made it clear that those boundaries were there and that he must not cross them. Granted, the damage had already been done ever so slightly and Jean felt the guilt for having betrayed Scott's absolute trust he gave her along with his heart, but it was still a far cry from destroying their relationship.
 
Loganbabe said:
Mystique?!? That´s a joke, isn´t it? :o
no, it's not a Joke. She's one of the main villains. She is to Magneto what Jean is to Xavier. Protege, proverbial daughter, righthand woman.

And why are these characters better that Wolverine?
And why is Wolverine better than them? :)

No, the haters are the ones who have to come up with good arguments, since wasting so much time and energy hating a fictional character is so stupid anyway.

So is getting stressed out knowing someone out there doesn't like your favorite character.

Like I´ve already said, I can understand the love for the favorites, but all that senseless hate towards Wolverine is beyond me. It seems that even Hugh is a victim now.

People don't hate Wolverine outright. I don't hate him. In fact I'm glad he's on our side. When the crap goes down it's nice to know he's there to help out. People hate the way he's overused and overexposed as the proverbial cash cow to guarranty that a movie will be profitable at the expense of the other characters. I want to be able to love my favorite characters too, but I don't get the chance because Wolverine takes their spotlight and chances to shine away from them. In the comics it's fair and balanced. If it's a wolverine spinoff or story, then obviously it will be about him. But when a movie is called "X-Men" and not "Wolverine" then that should send a clear message as to how exposure will be divided among the chars. Unfortunately it's not.
 
Loganbabe said:
She didn´t tell him to back off.
Have you read the X2 novel? Jean´s feelings over Logan were confusing her, and even Storm teased her about it. Even if that scene wasn´t in the movie, there were others which showed she had feelings for him other than concern. When she told Logan "I love him", she never seemed 100% sure about it.
When will people understand that the movieverse is different from the comicverse, and in the X-Men movies Jean and Logan was a very strong possibility? She loved Scott, we all know that, but even the strongest relationships can come to an end. And I´m not even saying it would happen, and that Jean would be with Logan, but why do people get so stressed out when thinking about that possibility, seeing that the movies gave a lot of hints??? :o

Movie Jean loved Cyke, not Logan. There was some attraction there that she repressed (which is why Pheonix wanted him), but if she had to choose one she would've chosen Cyke over Logan in a heartbeat. The films did make that clear in my opinion, especially in X3 when Cyke's death is what kept setting her off. Just my opinion, that's all.

Anybody notice on the "making-of"s for X2 that the "I love him" scene at the x-jet was a long makeout scene, where her and Logan make out for a while and Jean stops and decides not to take it further? In the film Singer cuts it down to show it as Logan kissing her and her pulling away, but the special features show that it went further than that.
 
AznBABYBANDIT said:
people hate him since scott died... and he likes Jean too...
of course that's why ppl hate him, it's not like Rogue fans hate him or Jean fans or any other set of fans. Just Cyclops fans got it. Thank god you cleared that up.:rolleyes:
 
Drago said:
Movie Jean loved Cyke, not Logan. There was some attraction there that she repressed (which is why Pheonix wanted him), but if she had to choose one she would've chosen Cyke over Logan in a heartbeat. The films did make that clear in my opinion, especially in X3 when Cyke's death is what kept setting her off. Just my opinion, that's all.

Anybody notice on the "making-of"s for X2 that the "I love him" scene at the x-jet was a long makeout scene, where her and Logan make out for a while and Jean stops and decides not to take it further? In the film Singer cuts it down to show it as Logan kissing her and her pulling away, but the special features show that it went further than that.

Artistic input over executive input that's how it needs to be.
 

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