Why the hate for Wolverine?

[undomiel]

And its even a bigger shame to make the whole effin' trilogy about him....

Oh, c'mon now, Bat. It wasn't all about him. He was simply the main character, something which every good story needs.

Let me ask you this: Would you be as upset if, say, somebody like Cyclops had been the main character instead? Somehow I don't think you would!

 

[The Batman]

Yeah, actually i would. Cause not only would they ruin him like they did movie wolverine, but hed probably suck up someone elses screentime.

And the fact is, wolverine did steal screentime. If that wasnt the case, Colossus wouldve actually said more than a sentence in X3. Angel would have had more than two scenes. And maybe Gambit would have actually been in the movies!

The fact is, is that the X-Men is a TEAM. Wolverine did not need to be the main protagonist for EVERY SINGLE MOVIE. simple as that. Its funny how FF was garbage and still had the team aspect much better than X-Men could hope to achieve. No one ate up the time in that movie, they all got reasonable focus. There's no excuse

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Yeah, actually i would. Cause not only would they ruin him like they did movie wolverine, but hed probably suck up someone elses screentime.

And the fact is, wolverine did steal screentime. If that wasnt the case, Colossus wouldve actually said more than a sentence in X3. Angel would have had more than two scenes. And maybe Gambit would have actually been in the movies!

The fact is, is that the X-Men is a TEAM. Wolverine did not need to be the main protagonist for EVERY SINGLE MOVIE. simple as that. Its funny how FF was garbage and still had the team aspect much better than X-Men could hope to achieve. No one ate up the time in that movie, they all got reasonable focus. There's no excuse

Agreed. All characters in FF4(except for Doom) were portrayed faithfully much like their comic book counterparts.

It's a shame when FF4 considered to be better than X3. And I didn't even like FF4 that much, but it was decent and I enjoyed seeing Thing, Human Torch, and Richards.

 

[javon]

Agreed. All characters in FF4(except for Doom) were portrayed faithfully much like their comic book counterparts.

It's a shame when FF4 considered to be better than X3. And I didn't even like FF4 that much, but it was decent and I enjoyed seeing Thing, Human Torch, and Richards.

I agree. Their characters hot ther fare share. And although the movie wasn't as good as X-men overall, it was still better in some ways. And I too enjoyed seeing the characters....especially Jessica Alba..I mean Sue Storm.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

I agree. Their characters hot ther fare share. And although the movie wasn't as good as X-men overall, it was still better in some ways. And I too enjoyed seeing the characters....especially Jessica Alba..I mean Sue Storm.

Jessica Alba.

 

[javon]

lol!@ Yeah. I like her playing Sue. She did a FANTASTIC job.

 

[javon]

lol!@ Yeah. I like her playing Sue. She did a FANTASTIC job.

 

[undomiel]

Yeah, actually i would. Cause not only would they ruin him like they did movie wolverine, but hed probably suck up someone elses screentime.

And the fact is, wolverine did steal screentime. If that wasnt the case, Colossus wouldve actually said more than a sentence in X3. Angel would have had more than two scenes. And maybe Gambit would have actually been in the movies!

The fact is, is that the X-Men is a TEAM. Wolverine did not need to be the main protagonist for EVERY SINGLE MOVIE. simple as that. Its funny how FF was garbage and still had the team aspect much better than X-Men could hope to achieve. No one ate up the time in that movie, they all got reasonable focus. There's no excuse

Ah, but don't you see? That's exactly what I'm saying! I'm guessing (haven't seen it myself) part of the reason FF was such a bad movie was because they tried to give all the characters equal time. It just doesn't work -- it's not good story-telling. And you must agree that the X-films were good (the first two especially), even if you don't think they were perfect.

And about teams. I think a sports analogy is quite helpful here. Though every team member plays on a team, some players get more time than others. There are star players, those who capture the heart of the public in various ways. Some times the team's offficial leader (like a captain or something) is not a star player. He's important, but not always as well-noticed as some of the others. Wolverine is like a star player. His performances are stand-out, he comes through in the clutch, he displays extreme heart and courage, and he often carries the team to victory through his performance. Is it any surprise that he would receive more attention, more media press than the others? Is it wrong? Of course not. It's just the natural way things pan out.

And about Wolvie being the main protagonist for all three movies. From the beginning, Bryan Singer was working with certain story arcs. Rather than making each movie its own individual piece, he set up certain storylines in the first movie that were intended to be followed up in the second and third movies. This was one of the strengths of the films -- we received the continuation of one big story rather than three little stories that wouldn't have fit together. It was, like Star Wars and LOTR, a saga rather than a bunch of sequels. This necessitated Wolverine's story being at the center of each film, just like Luke Skywalker and Frodo Baggins are at the center of their films.

 

[The Batman]

No...FF didnt work because it had corny dialogue, a bad story, and dr doom was ruined.

But the characters and more importantly the EQUAL screentime was what they got right

 

[undomiel]

No...FF didnt work because it had corny dialogue, a bad story, and dr doom was ruined.

But the characters and more importantly the EQUAL screentime was what they got right

Maybe, but there were only (I'm guessing) four of them, right? The X-cast is much larger -- no way you could give equal time to everyone without making an eight-hour film.

 

[ntcrawler]

Oh, c'mon now, Bat. It wasn't all about him. He was simply the main character, something which every good story needs.

That's your opinion. And I disagree. No, he wasn't simply the main character, he was THE character. It wasn't so much as all about him, but everything in the story revolved AROUND him. There are other main characters too but they all took a backseat to let this main character do pretty much everything, from becoming a leader that he's not known for, to saving the day using abilities he's not supposed to have, to saving the day under circumstances that shouldn't have happened in the first place.

Let me ask you this: Would you be as upset if, say, somebody like Cyclops had been the main character instead? Somehow I don't think you would!

Then you know very little about the people you're dealing with here. Cyclops is recognized not as THE main char, but as ONE of the main characters of this franchise, regardless of which inception. The character works because of the way he interacts with all the other chars and by the way he's able to combine the resources of his team to save the day. That's why he's in charge of training, that's why he's in charge of the team in the field. To portray him as the one and only thing that's worth seeing and to push everyone away, would actually discredit the character instead of helping him gain fame and recognition. Cyclops is a true team player, and we want to see him portrayed that way. At least to the level that we saw him in X1.

 

[ntcrawler]

It just doesn't work -- it's not good story-telling.

I disagree. It worked perfectly for LOTR. There were at least 3-4 sotry arcs taking place at the same time involving multiple chars. We switched back and forth between these and didn't feel like anyone was short-changed.

And you must agree that the X-films were good (the first two especially), even if you don't think they were perfect.

Oh I absolutely agree with that.

And about teams. I think a sports analogy is quite helpful here. Though every team member plays on a team, some players get more time than others. There are star players, those who capture the heart of the public in various ways. Some times the team's offficial leader (like a captain or something) is not a star player. He's important, but not always as well-noticed as some of the others.

Then we must be thinking of different sports. I'm thinking of Soccer, and Hockey. Ronaldo, Gretzky, Dejna, and Gadocha are fantastic athletes and celebrities in their sports, but they alone do not have what it takes to win a match. Passing the ball to Gretzky or Ronaldo does not automatically guarranty a goal, and no coach or manager is foolish enough to keep giving the same players the balls to give them an opportunity to make the shot in order to impress fans and the press. Nor are the above-mentioned players captains of their teams either. They may be the celebrities, but when it comes time to put together a strategy to win the game, it takes a team effort, where everyone plays their part.

Same deal with Wolverine. He may be Marvel's and FOX's poster child, but he alone and his powers are not enough to win the battle all on his own. He can't solve all problems himself, he can't save everyone himself, and he can't defeat every enemy himself.

Wolverine is like a star player. His performances are stand-out, he comes through in the clutch, he displays extreme heart and courage, and he often carries the team to victory through his performance.

What's impressive about all the chars is not their powers, but the fact that they're ALL larger than life when it comes to heart and courage. Cyclops', Jean'sand Storm's courage or their willingness to sacrifice themselves is no less than Wolverine's.

And about Wolvie being the main protagonist for all three movies. From the beginning, Bryan Singer was working with certain story arcs. Rather than making each movie its own individual piece, he set up certain storylines in the first movie that were intended to be followed up in the second and third movies. This was one of the strengths of the films -- we received the continuation of one big story rather than three little stories that wouldn't have fit together.

Exactly. And we are under the impression that X3 did not continue these story arcs but instead chose a concept that was not well connected to the first 2 films and ran off with it in the wrong direction. It takes more than simply Jean's resurrection to establish continuity with the first two films.

This necessitated Wolverine's story being at the center of each film,

Not quite. And this is why X3 is flawed. Wolverine had no story to be centered around in the third film. The Cure was not about him, and Jean's predicament was not about him either.

Him being upset that Jean's turned evil is not to be confused as being the center of the story. Jean and what's happening to her instead should have been the main focus, NOT how Wolverine feels about it. Because obviously it upset Storm and the rest of the X-Men as well, and would have done to to a much higher degree. Wolverine knew Jean for about 1-2 weeks tops. The rest of the X-men would have known her for years. They would have alot more to be upset about.

 

[CapBeerCino]

Maybe, but there were only (I'm guessing) four of them, right? The X-cast is much larger -- no way you could give equal time to everyone without making an eight-hour film.

A good writer could work his way around it. x-1 blanced a lot of characters very well for 104 mins. TLS didn't come close.

 

[weatherwitch]

Maybe, but there were only (I'm guessing) four of them, right? The X-cast is much larger -- no way you could give equal time to everyone without making an eight-hour film.

Ok, let's back this up entirely. There were 5 original X-Men and only 5. We didn't get that from the first movie, in fact there were only 3 X-Men in the first film plus Wolverine and Rogue. Lots to work with and room to create a multidimensional and diverse plotline. That didn't happen, and to top that off Wolverine takes over in the third film as a Gdamn leader. Riiiiiiight. 'Cuz he's all about the "team". The fact that the first and second films were LARGELY Wolverine related makes the third one overkill. He's become a cashcow ****e and the integrity of his character plummets accordingly. It's a fact of basic marketing. if you oversaturate the market you risk serious withdrawl, distaste and reluctance from the consumers. They've saturated the market. Now Wolverine isn't that reclusive bad-boy character that you favor, he's the mainstream-massmarketed-pushed-upon us ideal. Give up smoking, give up swearing, worship a dead bird and start falling for Emma...holy crap, he IS Scott Summers.

 

[ntcrawler]

Lots to work with and room to create a multidimensional and diverse plotline. That didn't happen, and to top that off Wolverine takes over in the third film as a Gdamn leader.

Riiiiiiight. 'Cuz he's all about the "team". The fact that the first and second films were LARGELY Wolverine related makes the third one overkill

that's the biggest irony, since during the first 2 films he was the thorn in the side of the team. The rebel going against the team's values. Now suddenly not only did he embrace the team, but he's leading the team. So much for Ororo being 2nd in charge (well I guess she still is) and being the next best tactical planner after Scott.

It's a fact of basic marketing. if you oversaturate the market you risk serious withdrawl, distaste and reluctance from the consumers.

I think that's gonna happen with the Wolverine film. Even more so if there are to be W sequels.

Now Wolverine isn't that reclusive bad-boy character that you favor, he's the mainstream-massmarketed-pushed-upon us ideal. Give up smoking, give up swearing, worship a dead bird and start falling for Emma...

That's the other irony. The things that fans say appeals to them about Wolverine are being washed away. The reclusive, loner, swearing, angry, abusive, self-inflicting, troubled loner with an honorable heart is being turned into a nice guy. Falling for Emma? Yeah I wouldn't find that too unreasonable, especially if you keep Scott out of the picture. He'd be the next logical choice. Well it's not like they would put in Beast or Warren or Iceman as Emma's romantic lead.

holy crap, he IS Scott Summers.

There's a fanfic out there where something similar happens. At the end of X3, Logan saves Jean, gets her pregnant, ends up becoming a father and they agree to get married. Meanwhile, Scott comes back, learns what happens, and points out to Jean "I can't help but think that somehow I must have switched bodies with Logan".

That's kind of the impression I got towards the end of X3. Wolverine is acting and talking like Cyclops. It's not natural, and it's not right.

 

[javon]

Wolverine and Storm are the biggest cash cows for the X-men, so when you have to extremely well known A-list actors portyaing them, they are gonna be everywhere.

As for Halle being a boring Storm, FOR THE LAST TIME: BLAME THE TERRIBLE WRITTING.

If anything seeing her get angry all the time is a stark departure from X2 where she did nothing remoting interesting besides fly the goda** plane.

The hate for Wolverine exsist because the whole trilogy was ALL about him.
X1- his intoduction to the X-men
X2- Weapon X plot
X3- his pointless and futile quest for Jean (yawn good thing we haven't seen it before in the other two movies.......oh wait, damn!)












And Wolverine is gonna get his own FREAKIN spinoff. Don't we already know all we need to for him. Jeeze, I love Hugh, and I like Wolverine, but common already. Last time I checked the X-men were a team...

Exactly and BRAVO. They are the two adults. And when you give Wolverine more screen time than needed, that is just rude.

1) Storm is getting somewhat of a disrespectful damand from her peers. They only called her Ororo, her first name, like 2 times throughout the entire series. And someone at thexverse mentioned that before...and that is rude. You can't just call someone Storm when their not on a mission, but standing behind you saying nothing but crap. Kitty said "STORM told us to stay in" in X3 instead of saying "Ororo told us to stay in". That was rude. And I see why Logan doesn't do it because he is already disrepectful and plus he rarely calls her by her first name in the comics (it's al ways ro' or something). Xavier did it once when he introduced Storm in X1 but in X3 while they were at the mansion..called her Storm. Jean has NEVER called her Ororo in the movies.

2) Storm has had less screentime and meaning that anyone else. Jean had a meaning, Xavier had a meaning, Logan had his damn meaning, hell...even Bobby had a meaning. Kitty had just came in and right away had a meaning. Storm had nothing but a beating from Callisto and a electric show (which was amazing). She had no drama, no comdey, no nothing and that is what got me anrgy wile seeing the movie. Not even any new powers like they promised and had in the deleted scens..which is crap. Bobby had Rogue, Jean had Scott and logan, Xavier had Jean and Stryker, Logan had Jean, Stryker, Rogue, and Scott. Storm had what? Can someone tell me? She gets chosen for leadership, and Logans hairy ass comes in and bossess her around. Tell me why Storm couldn't have been in the infirmary lab when Xavier was explaining Jean's condition? Tell me why Storm couldn't be the one to see Xavier die? Tell me why Storm gave NO COMMANDS at Alcatraz when they were battling? She is the leader, they gave that to Logan that and some love for Jean. Which brings me to this conclusion....how is he apparently more important than Storm. Their hasn't even been 2 years that they've known eachother, but Storm and Jean have know eachother over 10 years...yet Storm can't be their to witness Jean's behavior.

3) She had NO DRAMA AT ALL. Scott had drama, Xavier had drama, Bobby had drama, Logan had drama, Rogue had drama, Kitty had drama..Storm had none. Sure when Xavier died she was sad but like the rest of the movie...it was fast paced and didn't even let her REALLY break down and cry like Halle is capable of.....she did better crying in Catwoman. Then she all of a sudden hates Jean because she killed the Professor? No, no Ratner and your crazy writing crue. If they would have gave some insight at the balcony as to how she feels towards Jean and Xavier...mabe it would have been convincing enough to let me know what she was angry for.

4) Everyone had a new power except for her. Iceman finally iced up, Jean started demolecularizing people, Xavier switched into a different body, Logan withstood Jeans telekinetic assault, and Storm......she shot lightning out of her hands. Woohoo!........Umm..no. That is great, but not good enough. The tidal wave scene would have been good enough but no...it was deleted. Mabe even Storm puching Callisto in the face would have been good but no...it was deleted. Once again..Storm is left behind.

 

[My Red Sight]

I thought X3 worked as a team.

Look at the Danger Room scene: They were all working together. Rogue used Colossus' powers to sheild herself. Kitty phased herself and Bobby. The fast ball special.

And the alcatraz battle: The were all formed on a line, ready for combat, ready to fullfill their mission. I thought teamwork was present in the movies.

As for Storm, to me she had an arc.
X1: She was afraid of what Normal people would do to her and other mutants. She's afraid of the regestration act, and knows that they will do worse.

X2: She turned her fear into anger. It also showed her motherly side when her and nightcrawler went to save the children.

X3: Still mad, but has turned it into passion. Passion as a leader, passion with her powers, etc. And we can still see her motherly side, when she conforts Kitty, and such.

 

[javon]

Agreed.

 

[x-fan]

look the first 3 part story arc was seen through the eyes of wolvie, it was meant to be that way, singer made it that way. ratner tried to carry on what was started. wolverine is an uber popular character and many want to see him, if you have a problem with wolverine getting big parts dont hate on him hate on the writers for mishandling the cast

or in layman terms dont hate the player hate the game/writers and fox/

 

[javon]

Agreed.

 

[x-fan]

look the first 3 part story arc was seen through the eyes of wolvie, it was meant to be that way, singer made it that way. ratner tried to carry on what was started. wolverine is an uber popular character and many want to see him, if you have a problem with wolverine getting big parts dont hate on him hate on the writers for mishandling the cast.

or in layman terms dont hate the player hate the game/writers and fox/

i have said from the first movie that the director needs to be able to handle big casts and i guess the writers do to. i cant wait for marvel to get the property back and redo it hopefully with a good large cast director, the guy that directed oceans 11 and twelve might do a good job, there hasnt been a real and good xmen yet imo

 

[x-fan]

opps lagg happened an i hit stop and redid the post sorry it looks like 2 post ermm i mean 1 and a half posts

 

[undomiel]

I thought X3 worked as a team.

Look at the Danger Room scene: They were all working together. Rogue used Colossus' powers to sheild herself. Kitty phased herself and Bobby. The fast ball special.

And the alcatraz battle: The were all formed on a line, ready for combat, ready to fullfill their mission. I thought teamwork was present in the movies.

As for Storm, to me she had an arc.
X1: She was afraid of what Normal people would do to her and other mutants. She's afraid of the regestration act, and knows that they will do worse.

X2: She turned her fear into anger. It also showed her motherly side when her and nightcrawler went to save the children.

X3: Still mad, but has turned it into passion. Passion as a leader, passion with her powers, etc. And we can still see her motherly side, when she conforts Kitty, and such.

Yes, well said. They did work as a team in X3, and in all the films. Just because more attention was devoted to Wolverine's story doesn't mean it was only about him. And I don't believe Wolverine is being shoved in the face of the general public -- the public is demanding more and more of him because they love him. It doesn't work the other way around.

 

[danoyse]

that's the biggest irony, since during the first 2 films he was the thorn in the side of the team. The rebel going against the team's values. Now suddenly not only did he embrace the team, but he's leading the team. So much for Ororo being 2nd in charge (well I guess she still is) and being the next best tactical planner after Scott.

How was he "thorn in the side" for the first two movies? He was the new guy, he didn't choose to be there, and he didn't fit in. But when Rogue ran away, he was the one who told her that he thought they could help her. Then he (with the full involvment of the team) saved her, and even risked his life by giving up his powers to do so.

He was a pain in the neck, but a thorn in the side never helps anyone. If anything, it slows them down.

In the 2nd movie they left the kids with him--and look what he did when they were in trouble.

When X3 started, he wasn't embracing anything. He was goofing off in the Danger Room. "I'm just the sub. You've got a problem, talk to Scott," he said.

Then Scott and the Professor died, he got some crazy notion that he could go get Jean alone and got his a** handed to him instead. Finally he goes back, embraces the team, and becomes the leader--30 minutes before the end of the film.

And I never saw him displace Storm as the leader at any point the movie.

 

[danoyse]

As far as I'm concerned, yes. Talking to people like idiots will not get you respect. Period. And shes more than proved in THIS thread why she dosent get that respect. And it had nothing to do with her views on hugh jackman having "it".

She seems to get respect from everyone but you and Kurosawa. That speaks volumes, doesn't it?