Wonder Woman Script

[Matt.S99]

Someone needs to dumb it down and explain to me just exactly why the gods can't work in this supposed "MOS universe." I really don't believe that there is absolutely no way they can so it and just taking this easy way "a part of krypton creating other worlds and super powered humans" out....

 

[Shikamaru]

Someone needs to dumb it down and explain to me just exactly why the gods can't work in this supposed "MOS universe." I really don't believe that there is absolutely no way they can so it and just taking this easy way "a part of krypton creating other worlds and super powered humans" out....

It feels odd that most of the human population living in today's scientific world is composed of theists yet they can't picture magic and science co-existing in a fictional universe. No offense to anyone; just want to point that out.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Someone needs to dumb it down and explain to me just exactly why the gods can't work in this supposed "MOS universe." I really don't believe that there is absolutely no way they can so it and just taking this easy way "a part of krypton creating other worlds and super powered humans" out....

When the WW film is like CLASH OF THE TITAN/LORD OF THE RINGS and makes boatloads of cash and little girls (and perhaps some little boys) are running around in WW costumes lassoing things or playing with swords pretending to battle a chimera we will look back on all this "Wonder Woman needs a contrived pseudo scientific explanation" and laugh brothers and sisters.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

It feels odd that most of the human population living in today's scientific world is composed of theists yet they can't picture magic and science co-existing in a fictional universe. No offense to anyone; just want to point that out.

How many years was XENA on tv? Did they ever once have to come up with some kind of rationale for it's universe? Or did they just say "Dis here ting gots gods and magic. Deal wit it! Cuz dats da story we's telling!"

 

[113]

Someone needs to dumb it down and explain to me just exactly why the gods can't work in this supposed "MOS universe." I really don't believe that there is absolutely no way they can so it and just taking this easy way "a part of krypton creating other worlds and super powered humans" out....

I just posted in a similar thread how I think the Gods could work in the MoS universe. I'll just quote myself from that thread (although context of question I was answering was different):

Of course the gods needs to be aliens (if they include the gods). The way Thor did it is completely right. Having "Ancient Aliens" as the Gods is much for believable and "realistic" then just having supernatural stuff.

And it doesn't have to be some long-winded explanation. In Thor the Gods are simply explained in that one scene between Thor and Jane when he says "your ancestors called it magic, you call it science. I come from a place where they are one in the same." Boom, explanation done.

So if the Greek Gods were to be included in a Wonder Woman movie all it takes is a "the Gods fell from the stars in great ships" or something along those lines to give a hint to the audience that the gods are just aliens that crash landed. You don't have to explain their powers, they just have them. Their powers are beyond our current scientific capabilities to understand. Again, boom, done.

So the script that was presented here while I personally have no qualms about, if the fan uproar would be so drastic they could re-work it to include gods, and maybe make the women of Themiscyra descendants of those gods (human/god hybrid demi-gods - hence how WW has her powers).

 

[jaymes_e06]

Making WW a glorified Supergirl? I'll pass.

 

[Micromind]

Reposting my thoughts from th other (JL) hread -

The shared Universe had a good chance when they made a Green Lantern movie but WB did not plan it properly and green lighted a terrible script, the GL movie should have been the starting point of a shared DC Univ instead of MOS.

Though GL was a mess, one thing that it did correct was to say close to source material.

Somehow, I hate the concept of greek Gods as aliens, why can't they be from parallel Earth /parallel dimension or something like that? When they tried copying Iron man in Green Lantern, it back fired so it's best to do own thing.

Parallel universe thing has been done in movies like JJ Abram's Star Trek, Golden Compass and Source Code. Don't try to copy Thor.

What DC really needs is a strong movie Producer who respects the source material and is interested to create a vision for the shared DC Universe based movies.

Otherwise WB will always be meddling with the scripts, and green lighting half-baked ideas.

 

[teagone]

Obviously, its not going to be the exact same thing. But I think there's a reason why people criticize the tone of the movie, and its not just a matter of "I hate Snyder" or "I have Donner bias", not to say that hasn't played a part.

Sounded like you were making a claim that they were the same tonally, or at the very least similar. That said, I personally don't think Man of Steel was "dark" or "gritty" - those are terrible Hollywood buzzwords that I don't think need to be applied to a Wonder Woman film to make it work honestly. But you're right, execs are going to throw those words around whenever discussing WB/DC superhero ventures. It's what they do best.

Man of Steel was a pretty solid sci-fi hero's journey type narrative. Hopefully the spec script that's being discussed in this thread eventually takes a turn to make Wonder Woman a solid mythological adventure to parallel what MoS established with answering the question of is there alien life by bringing in another belief shattering element by making ancient Greek/whatever mythology a reality.

 

[Micromind]

Oh, and that (rumored) WW script trying to make Amazons mutant and ignoring Greek mythology is The worst idea, ever.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Oh, and that (rumored) WW script trying to make Amazons mutant and ignoring Greek mythology is The worst idea, ever.

LOTR made money. CLASH OF THE TITANS made money. THOR mad money. Even THOR's little "magic and science" speech does little to change that they told the story of Marvel's Norse gods, and that we never actually are given an indepth explanation about the origins of the Asgardians. This "MOS Krypton must be the rationale for DCCU Heroes" position just baffles me. A world wide audience watched HERCULES/XENA for years. Never once did they have to address the origins of gods or magic. They were both just part of their story.

 

[Boy Scout]

Somehow, I hate the concept of greek Gods as aliens, why can't they be from parallel Earth /parallel dimension or something like that?

I think that'd be cool.

 

[Micromind]

Also, I don't know how true this is, but Goyer's Flash script was supposed to be dark too.

Yes and so was Goyer's SuperMax (Green Arrow) script, but both were rejected.

And, John August's script for Shazam which had a lighter tone was also rejected as it was too light.

 

[jmc]

Crossing genres in live-action is harder than in comics indeed, but not impossible or even close to it. Marvel essentially did the same thing and managed to pull it off. For the most part, Iron Man focuses solely on the tech side of the Marvel universe with zero focus on the rest. Favreau even stated that Iron Man's realism was inspired by Batman Begins' realism, and even incorporated a lot of real life issues such as terrorism to give it more of a real feel. Sure that the MCU toned down Thor's mythos to an extent (which they seem to be fixing with The Avengers and Thor: TDW) but ultimately, everything fit in well for the most part.

Also, MoS was not trying to expand on the DCU outside of small cameos to WE and things of that nature. What it mainly does is expanding the Superman mythos. The Batman films will expand the Batman mythos, the WW films will expand the WW mythos, the GL films will expand the GL mythos, etc. Obviously that the concept of magic won't be alluded to in MoS due to that. I prefer things to be this way. I was never fond of the way Marvel turned most of their solo films into Avengers promos as opposed to letting them stand on their own.

Ah, there's a great big difference, whilst Iron Man is the most grounded of the Marvel films it's still very much a neutral world he lives in. Yes, IM1 was inspired by Batman Begins, and yes it is the most grounded of the MCU films, but it was never trying to present itself in he same way Begins was as being something of this world. It always had both feet planted in the superhero genre which is why expanding to other characters was easy. The MCU has never tried to be of this world, it's focus has always been on the characters not the effects they have on the world.

 

[jmc]

Someone needs to dumb it down and explain to me just exactly why the gods can't work in this supposed ''MOS universe.'' I really don't believe that there is absolutely no way they can so it and just taking this easy way ''a part of krypton creating other worlds and super powered humans'' out....

Because you're talking about a different type of movie genre to the one seen in MoS. Is it an easy way out? Well, yeah, it solves a problem because WW is going to have to fit into the world that MoS created, and Krypton being the cause for her and other heroes existence is the perfect work around to a tricky situation. You're asking an audience to buy into the 'what if' aspect of Superman and the greater DCU, and that's easier to do when you lean heavily toward sci-fi because you can give plausible explanations to extraordinary things. You cannot ask the audience to buy into both science and ancient mythology in the world MoS created.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Because you're talking about a different type of movie genre to the one seen in MoS. Is it an easy way out? Well, yeah, it solves a problem because WW is going to have to fit into the world that MoS created, and Krypton being the cause for her and other heroes existence is the perfect work around to a tricky situation. You're asking an audience to buy into the 'what if' aspect of Superman and the greater DCU, and that's easier to do when you lean heavily toward sci-fi because you can give plausible explanations to extraordinary things. You cannot ask the audience to buy into both science and ancient mythology in the world MoS created.

I don't think the GA or studio execs really care about this in the way some fans do. Again, I state, did profitable and world wide hit Hercules/Xena ever have to give some long winded, yet ultimately unnecessary rationale for it's fictional universe? Or did they just say, "Here's our world. Have fun kids"? And before anyone say it's different... It really is not.

I have no problem imagining a WW film that in many ways (except it's of a higher quality all around) is like CLASH OF THE TITANS only in modern times. I think that those that propose this Scifi take on Diana don't get the majesty and mythic elements they will be stripping from the character if they had their way.

 

[Micromind]

If Percy Jackson movies can manage to be set in our realistic world and still include Greek mythos, I see no reason why a Wonder Woman movie cannot do that (although in a much more subtle way.)

 

[Micromind]

Just show that whole Paradise island (Themyscira) is set in a parallel dimension where Amazons live, and that Amazons themselves have not seen Greek gods for many hundreds of years, many just assume that they exists, only the Queen Hippolyta can see them occasionally.

then show Diana going out of Themscira to enter real world in present time.

 

[theOVOXO]

How many years was XENA on tv? Did they ever once have to come up with some kind of rationale for it's universe? Or did they just say "Dis here ting gots gods and magic. Deal wit it! Cuz dats da story we's telling!"

Agreed there shouldn't be an explanation to anything about why and how these gods exist. Really don't understand why people can't have a little imagination and think outside the box.

 

[jmc]

I don't think the GA or studio execs really care about this in the way some fans do. Again, I state, did profitable and world wide hit Hercules/Xena ever have to give some long winded, yet ultimately unnecessary rationale for it's fictional universe? Or did they just say, "Here's our world. Have fun kids"? And before anyone say it's different... It really is not.

I have no problem imagining a WW film that in many ways (except it's of a higher quality all around) is like CLASH OF THE TITANS only in modern times. I think that those that propose this Scifi take on Diana don't get the majesty and mythic elements they will be stripping from the character if they had their way.

I'm sorry, but comparing Xena to Man of Steel is absurd, you may as well compare MoS to Scrubs. And even if audiences didn't care you can bet your house on it the studio does care, especially when they are hell bent on trying to get JL off the ground and in the wake of Marvel's CU. We got a rational explanation for Nolan's Batman series, we're getting one for the DCU. WB isn't trying to be Marvel, and it's time people simply accept that instead of pointing toward what Marvel have done and saying 'yeah, but....'. Man of Steel is the ground work, and things have to fit that ground work.

 

[jmc]

If Percy Jackson movies can manage to be set in our realistic world and still include Greek mythos, I see no reason why a Wonder Woman movie cannot do that (although in a much more subtle way.)

That's a fantasy movie, it has it's own rules, it's not comparable to Man of Steel which is a sci-fi movie.

 

[jmc]

Agreed there shouldn't be an explanation to anything about why and how these gods exist. Really don't understand why people can't have a little imagination and think outside the box.

How is Krypton being the catalyst for accretion of the DCU not thinking outside the box?

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I don't think what was established in MOS is a "Gritty/Grounded/Realistic" universe at all really. But it was a universe of "consequences". If an alien with awesome power that looked like us were raised on Earth, what could the reaction be on this planet? What would be the consequences? Jon Kent in the film was guided by that idea and his fate showed how those consequences played out in a personal way for Clark. General Zod is the last remaining invader and there is no way to send him to the PZ, and he wants vengeance on Kal-El and Earth. What are the consequences? But other than some off the cuff explanation (about as detailed as what was done in Thor, which is to say, not that detailed) from Jor-el we don't get some technobabble timey whimey rationale for Clark's real world impossible powers. As long as a WW story is about the consequences of her existence in the world it really doesn't matter that her origins are tied to the magical power of ancient gods.

 

[Micromind]

That's a fantasy movie, it has it's own rules, it's not comparable to Man of Steel which is a sci-fi movie.

I know but that's the real charm of watching a movie like Justice League, watching the heroes from diverse genres come together. I feel that Man of Steel or TDK should not dictate the tone or setting of other DC movies.

Batman, grounded real world with crime - drama.

Superman - Sci Fi in a grounded world.

WW- Fantasy set in our world.

GL- Pure Sci fi and fantasy.

Flash - Action, adventure with Sci Fi.

JL- Combination of all the above genres.

 

[Micromind]

How is Krypton being the catalyst for accretion of the DCU not thinking outside the box?

Just because it is out of box does not make it a good idea.

 

[jmc]

Just because it is out of box does not make it a good idea.

People are asking for out of the box ideas to suit what they think a WW should be instead of asking for ideas that work within the context of the MoS universe. Frankly, people are looking at a WW set in a MoS world from the wrong perspective.