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Would the movie hold up if no Venom?

Butterbean

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And Sandman was the main bad guy ? ? Goblin and Doc Ock held up the previous two, I'm just wondering if Sandman could do it on his own. I think a lot of people will focus on Venom and steal Sandman's thunder, imo....
 
Oh yeah, I think the film would still hold up. But Venom makes everything better, it's like putting on hot sauce on a burrito.

:sym: :up:
 
I think Sandman could have held his own in a movie. Keep in mind he would also be sharing with Harry but I think that would have worked fine. But there would have been too many people *****ing about no Venom and it would be more annoying than it is now.
 
I'd be *****ing if there was no Venom, there would be no end until justice has been brought.
 
Going by the novelization, abolutely! Venom is just the icing on the cake that brings Peter's journey through his inner darkness and battle of demons to full circle.
 
Sandman does hold the majority of the movie on his own. With help from Harry's Goblin.

So, I'll say yes.
 
Of course yes. Sandman is enough good villain to hold on the movie in my opinion... have you seen the Giant-Sandman at the end???? :O

D!
 
Yes, of course, but I think that Venom is a great addition not only because he is almost everyone's favorite villain (mine for sure) BUT he makes the movie much darker and much more evil.

Plus, Peter Parker's 'dark journey' isn't complete without him, as someone else above said.

CAH
 
yeah i really don't see how you can have symbiote in the movie and then not have venom at all. Even if he just jumped out at the screen at the very end he steals the show. As far as sandman goes...idk....i'm kinda doubtfull I would have cared all that much. Getting a little tired of Spidey's "tragic" villains. It's nice to have a bad guy who just plain out hates the hero. Nuff said. No "sympathetic" backing, just "I hate you mofo, let's do dis"
 
Well Vulture was originally going to be in it, but got replaced by Venom. So if Venom wasnet going to be in it, I imagine that that the symbiote and the whole darkness within would have been gone as well. Either way, I still think it would have held up great
 
Source? :woot:

D!
In The Spider-Man Chronicles, author and Spider-Man 3 producer Grant Curtis provides unmatched insider access to the devoted Spider-Man fan. Curtis has hand selected a phenomenal collection of unpublished concept art, sketches, models, and his own behind-the-scenes photography, and pairs these brilliant visuals with his detailed account of how the film was made-from the story and casting to the costumes, production, and special effects. Everything that the serious fan wants is here: early story notes on Vulture, who was later replaced by Venom; shooting locations in Los Angeles, New York, Cleveland, and elsewhere; the real world materials and computer wizardry that brought Sandman to life; transforming Spider-Man's suit into something darker, more sinister, and otherworldly; and much more. Contributions from the key players, including director Sam Raimi, the production designers, costume designers, and visual effects technicians complete this celebration of a groundbreaking motion picture.
http://www.amazon.com/Spider-Man-Ch...4767044?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1174173521&sr=1-4
 
Cool. Didn't know that. Thanks :)

I guess if Arad hadn't pressured him, we would be seeing a flying bold.

D!
 
Well without thinking I would say yes.

But if Venom was not in this film and lets say Vulture was...or hey if it was just Sandy and Harry would we still have:

Symbiote?
Brock?
Gwen?

Probably not in which case the film would have been very similar to 1 and 2 and therefore not as exciting. I have no doubt that this Sandman could hold his own film but the series has to go somewhere dark which is what 3 brings by including the Symbiote, Bad Pete and Venom.

So for a rehashing of the earlier movies the film could fly but for amazing fans and becoming an infinitly better film then the Symbiote is needed, which means Bad Pete is needed which also calls for Venom...so Venom is needed to make 3 become better than any dare hope.
 
Venom and whole symbiote plot make this film- it's AMAZING SPIDER-MAN.

Would it have held up? Sure, but would it have been AMAZING or SENSATIONAL? Probably not as much-
 
Well....the whole aspect of Peter fighting the darkness within being the sym would be gone and that seems to be the focus of the story. So what would be the lesson Peter learns?
 
Hell yes the movie would have held up without Venom, it's what Sam Raimi wanted from the word go. Just Harry/Goblin and Sandman. However, with the symbiote and Venom, in my opinion, it brings a darker element and helps make the movie more complex. The third movie needed some darkness, not to mention, a villain that is evil from birth to death--no matter his screentime. It's really just a perfect blend to end the third film.

And I stand before you naked as a blue jay bird awaiting its arrival. :cool:
 
Definitely not. The symbiote is a physical manifestation of what Spider-Man is going through. It allows Sam to show us that his quest for revenge is literally consuming him. Without the suit or Venom, I have a feeling this movie wouldn't be nearly as exciting. It'd be more of a rehash of Spider-Man 2.

It's nice to see Peter getting aggressive and balancing out as a person. I'd hate to sit through another movie of Peter getting his ass handed to him over and over. Sure it was great in #2, but we got the point that time around. Let's go on a different adventure.
 
I trust Raimi, so, yes! HOWEVER, it would have made less money than Spider-Man 2. Thats for sure! Most non-comic fans could care less about Sandman. He's one of the least favorite in the general public. So, the symbiote and Venom was needed to bring in every one else. Comic book fans alone won't make a movie 300 million bucks at the box office!
 
It defenitley would but Venom just makes even better. I mean like others have said without Venom the tone of this film wouldn't be dark and this film wouldn't be about the darkness within. half if the storyline of spidey3 would be changed as well if Venom wasn't in this film and we all know that we wouldn't want that because I for one like the fact that this film has a darker tone to it. not to mention that we wouldn't see peter take his anger out on people who treated him like crap such as Mr. Dikovitch which in fact I'm very happy about and we wouldn't get the mansion fight if Venom wasn't in the film.
 
Well yeah, the movie would hold up without Venom. It just might make a bit less at the box office. Venom doesn't really seem to be an essential character in the story as Sandman and NG do, but he will probably provide iit with great action and a darker atmosphere.
 
Yes, I do believe any Spider-Man film can be devoid of Venom and still work. In fact, I've said for some time that it seems like Venom is copy and pasted in. But to both understand why Venom is and is not essential to Spider-Man 3 you need to understand one thing: it all comes down to the level of commitment. Raimi and Sargent understand the world of Spider-Man and the audience enough to understand what needs to be done. Would we see lots of people come to a well-made Spider-Man film with the symbiote but without Venom? Let me put it this way: only two people I know have guessed that Venom is in the movie. That's out of many people who I've talked in passing about the movie. That means the amount of people who will go see this just on the standard of excellence previously acheived and the character alone is staggering enough for Sony to make a killing off of.

But, playing devil's advocate for a moment, does the story come to a clean climax if Venom didn't appear? After reading the novelization, I can't say in good conscience that it would. Think about it- an SM3 without Venom. What would it climax to? Nothing would be changed as far as initial events, but think about the fact that the Sandman is invulnerable. We'd see the same things. Penny comes over and dissuades the Sandman from killing Peter. The Sandman steps down. And then what? No climatic end. Just a quiet promise to forgive one another. What would having them fight Harry, or having Harry fight the Sandman with Peter, accomplish as a climax to the film? Nothing. It would make the character development up until that useless, and leave the viewer with a dissatisfying ending. And if they show the Venom transformation at the end of this "what-if"? What do you think fans of Venom would say? Let's say the transformation showed enough for us to see that there is definitely raised webbing- how would most fans react? I can tell you right now they'd be furious that SM4 was going to have raised webbing on Venom. Why? Simply because they would not be able to get it out of the public mind that the transformation climaxes with a Venom that looks relatively complete, and that in the relatively complete Venom there would be raised webbing. Can you imagine what a pickle the production team would find itself in as well? They would have shown an ending where not only is Venom obligated by method of allusion to be the next villain up for cinematic debut, but they would also have to live with their creative decisions. And if all that was shown was the symbiote landing on Eddie? People would be downright pissed- who in their right mind would be happy seeing a movie with no discernable climax and then be hit with a teaser? That's what happened in POTC2, and many didn't like that. How would that work for SM4's sake?

So, in conclusion, I'd have to say it's a catch 22 (as my Government teacher is so wont to say)- he is both the fulcrum for this film's greatness and nothing at all to it at the same time.
 
Yes, I do believe any Spider-Man film can be devoid of Venom and still work. In fact, I've said for some time that it seems like Venom is copy and pasted in. But to both understand why Venom is and is not essential to Spider-Man 3 you need to understand one thing: it all comes down to the level of commitment. Raimi and Sargent understand the world of Spider-Man and the audience enough to understand what needs to be done. Would we see lots of people come to a well-made Spider-Man film with the symbiote but without Venom? Let me put it this way: only two people I know have guessed that Venom is in the movie. That's out of many people who I've talked in passing about the movie. That means the amount of people who will go see this just on the standard of excellence previously acheived and the character alone is staggering enough for Sony to make a killing off of.

But, playing devil's advocate for a moment, does the story come to a clean climax if Venom didn't appear? After reading the novelization, I can't say in good conscience that it would. Think about it- an SM3 without Venom. What would it climax to? Nothing would be changed as far as initial events, but think about the fact that the Sandman is invulnerable. We'd see the same things. Penny comes over and dissuades the Sandman from killing Peter. The Sandman steps down. And then what? No climatic end. Just a quiet promise to forgive one another. What would having them fight Harry, or having Harry fight the Sandman with Peter, accomplish as a climax to the film? Nothing. It would make the character development up until that useless, and leave the viewer with a dissatisfying ending. And if they show the Venom transformation at the end of this "what-if"? What do you think fans of Venom would say? Let's say the transformation showed enough for us to see that there is definitely raised webbing- how would most fans react? I can tell you right now they'd be furious that SM4 was going to have raised webbing on Venom. Why? Simply because they would not be able to get it out of the public mind that the transformation climaxes with a Venom that looks relatively complete, and that in the relatively complete Venom there would be raised webbing. Can you imagine what a pickle the production team would find itself in as well? They would have shown an ending where not only is Venom obligated by method of allusion to be the next villain up for cinematic debut, but they would also have to live with their creative decisions. And if all that was shown was the symbiote landing on Eddie? People would be downright pissed- who in their right mind would be happy seeing a movie with no discernable climax and then be hit with a teaser? That's what happened in POTC2, and many didn't like that. How would that work for SM4's sake?

So, in conclusion, I'd have to say it's a catch 22 (as my Government teacher is so wont to say)- he is both the fulcrum for this film's greatness and nothing at all to it at the same time.

Good post, but I disagree. See people, the majority of people don't go see the movies just because of the "villians" they go to it to see Peter Parker and his adventures. This is why it's called Spider-Man. I think with out the symbiote we could not get into as a complex story about anger, and revenge, and how it can consume a person. From personal life experience, anger can be a lot like the symbiote and can consume a person, and turn them into something they are not. I think without this the audiance would not have had a deep as an experience. I don't think Venom is just the Eddie Brock Venom, I think the story is more interesting with Peter, and his dark side. And how even the good can have a dark side to them. And only the symbiote story could really show this side of Pete.

I think with just the Sandman it would of been a much more 2D plot of revenge and what it can do with a person. I think the symbiote was needed in this.
 

I think you missed the point. Venom had to be in the movie for the sake of the general public. If Sony said, "hey guys Spider-Man 3 will be released on May 4th with Sandman as the villain" the comic book fans would say, "cool." And, everyone else would says, "Sandman? Why?! He sucks! Thats like saying hey check out the new Batman movie with Killer Croc at the bad guy."

Venom and the symbiote were important in order to get everyone interested and not just the comic book fans. The comic books fan alone won't make this movie 300 million.
 

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