Wrestling Formally Announces Its Intention Of Interfering In This Thread - Part 235

[chamber-music]

I agree that in ring wrestling skills are less important to casual fans. The rock was hardly the best wrestler in the ring and sting's moveset wasn't the most entertaining but they were both mega over in their day.

Companies like ring of honor, Lu and tna don't have their wrestlers work the kind of hectic schedule the WWE does. Multiple former Indy guys currently in the have said how much more busy they are in the ring, travelling and promoting for the WWE. With how demanding and athletic modern wrestling is many of these guys would not last long if the wrestled how they did in the indies for the WWE

 

[nite-owl]

It looks like ACH has left ROH as well.

 

[TheCommissioner]

so in the past couple months ROH has lost

- Nigel McGuiness
- Michael Elgin
- ACH
- Roderick Strong
- possibly Steve Corino - rumor is WWE wants him to come be a trainer

 

[TheCommissioner]

thumbing through the Network

I think a lot of people forget how good the rivalry between Cena and Edge was - as it relates to story telling

Edge was a great heel champ

 

[Pink Ranger]

thumbing through the Network

I think a lot of people forget how good the rivalry between Cena and Edge was - as it relates to story telling

Edge was a great heel champ

Edge is still Cena's greatest opponent.

 

[TheCommissioner]

Edge is still Cena's greatest opponent.

I would agree with that

they had a TLC match that was just severe on both men

 

[Lobo]

I feel like Edge was the Piper to Cena's Hogan, whereas Punk was the Macho.

 

[TheCommissioner]

2011 MITB - Punk vs Cena - probably my favorite match in this current era

the last "big fight" match the WWE had IMO

 

[Slushy]

The Iron Woman is the match I'm looking forward to the most tonight.

Edge is still Cena's greatest opponent.

Disagree. Orton and Punk were better. Orton was booked to be Cena's equal instead of being on the losing side of a one sided feud.

Punk also got more wins and a string of good to great matches out of Cena without any stipulations attached.

the last "big fight" match the WWE had IMO

What about Cena Vs. Rock? Helmsley Vs. Undertaker? Cena Vs. Lesnar?

 

[TheCommissioner]

What about Cena Vs. Rock? Helmsley Vs. Undertaker? Cena Vs. Lesnar?

Cena vs Rock was a big PR stunt - I had no reason to get invested in it, aside from the spectacle

Helmsley vs Undertaker - again, a spectacle, no investment for me

Cena vs Lesnar - I enjoyed watching Lesnar toss him about like a rag doll, cant think of any other champion who would take a "beating" like that

Punk vs Cena had so much wrapped up in it - Punks "imminent departure", Cena finally finding a worthy opponent after a couple years of coasting, Vinces dynamic with Punk, the match being in Chicago - barely 15 minutes from Punks apartment building

 

[PeterBenParker]

So, RAW sucks. Whatever it had going forward for it fell apart the moment Bálor got hurt.

SmackDown Live has been decent-good almost consistently. The only thing that has hurt it is the blatant overexposure of James Ellsworth.

 

[Pink Ranger]

Disagree. Orton and Punk were better. Orton was booked to be Cena's equal instead of being on the losing side of onesided feud.

Punk also got more wins and a string of good to great matches out of Cena without any stipulations attached.

I still say Edge because from a storyline perspective, Edge was the heel that really got under Cena's skin. With a heel, the grudge is always personal, but to get a face really wanting to hurt his opponent, that's what makes good feuds into great feuds.

 

[TheCommissioner]

I still say Edge because from a storyline perspective, Edge was the heel that really got under Cena's skin. With a heel, the grudge is always personal, but to get a face really wanting to hurt his opponent, that's what makes good feuds into great feuds.

Yeah, totally

there was this animosity that grew between them, that Edge bought out of Cena that made it work so well

 

[MMMMM...Pancakes]

I loved the Edge/Cena rivalry. Brains vs. brawn. Rock vs Rap. Rated R vs TV-PG. Everything meshed so well.

 

[Slushy]

With a heel, the grudge is always personal, but to get a face really wanting to hurt his opponent, that's what makes good feuds into great feuds.

Fair enough.

 

[SV Fan]

Just my 2 cents about woman's wrestling. I don't get the WWe's logic getting a bunch of very attractive woman in the organization. When every female is a 9 or a 10 it sort of ruins any chance they have getting over as "the hot one".

If I was booking woman's wrestling I would have a bunch of Plain Janes and larger Females(both girth and muscular wise) who were hired for their wrestling skill(both in the ring and/or mic) then hire 1 or 2 that were a 9 or 10 on the looks scale. In that case you instantly create stars that fans will get behind

 

[TheCommissioner]

Just my 2 cents about woman's wrestling. I don't get the WWe's logic getting a bunch of very attractive woman in the organization. When every female is a 9 or a 10 it sort of ruins any chance they have getting over as "the hot one".

If I was booking woman's wrestling I would have a bunch of Plain Janes and larger Females(both girth and muscular wise) who were hired for their wrestling skill(both in the ring and/or mic) then hire 1 or 2 that were a 9 or 10 on the looks scale. In that case you instantly create stars that fans will get behind

because thats not sexist and backwards thinking at all

 

[SV Fan]

because thats not sexist and backwards thinking at all

It's the same deal with male wrestling, when everybody looks exactly the same, nobody stands out

 

[TheCommissioner]

It's the same deal with male wrestling, when everybody looks exactly the same, nobody stands out

but looks aren't the only metric here

 

[Dr Lee]

So, RAW sucks. Whatever it had going forward for it fell apart the moment Bálor got hurt.

SmackDown Live has been decent-good almost consistently. The only thing that has hurt it is the blatant overexposure of James Ellsworth.

For me it's simply down to the characters on either show for which one is the better one... SDLive has a higher number of more interesting characters than RAW....

It also helps that SDLive is only two hours... the show has to be more streamlined than the (often) rambling and wandering RAW.

 

[Dr. Evil]

I agree that in ring wrestling skills are less important to casual fans. The rock was hardly the best wrestler in the ring and sting's moveset wasn't the most entertaining but they were both mega over in their day.

Companies like ring of honor, Lu and tna don't have their wrestlers work the kind of hectic schedule the WWE does. Multiple former Indy guys currently in the have said how much more busy they are in the ring, travelling and promoting for the WWE. With how demanding and athletic modern wrestling is many of these guys would not last long if the wrestled how they did in the indies for the WWE

One of the issues I have with the WWE is the schedule. My whole issue is that famicommander is upset that the WWE has the worst wrestling out there, when he should know that the WWE has never been all about "just wrestling." If it was, Hogan vs. Andre would go down as one of the worst matches of all time. Instead it's revered because of the story around it. Hell, many of Hogan's great matches in the WWE were mediocre at best in terms of what goes on in the ring, but there's a reason those matches are looked back at fondly today: the stories around it.

Also in the attitude era, Austin vs. McMahon match wise was pure garbage. But the reason we didn't care was because the storyline itself was awesome. The Rock and Mick Foley were key figures in the Attitude Era and the reason both are so beloved was not their talents in the ring, but what they did outside of the ring with promos and stuff. Same goes for DX. As great in the ring HBK was, one of the reasons he was massively over in the Attitude Era was DX. DX is the reason for the rise of Triple H, who is also not the greatest in the ring. Nobody cared what Austin did in the ring, only the promos out of the ring.

My point is that the WWE hasn't been "just wrestling" in over 30 years. Many true Indie fans who were once upon a time fans of the WWE tend to forget that.

 

[Loki882]

The problem with WWE these days is that they don't have compelling storylines/characters a lot of the time, or at least not consistently so. The booking /writing has really suffered.

So if the storylines aren't compelling a lot of the time, and they struggle to build anyone up, AND they cannot even give you great in-ring wrestling either, well then what DO they have?

And yes, WWE's schedule is ridiculously hectic. It's no wonder why so many of their performers get injured/burnt out.

 

[godisawesome]

SDLive has a greater degree of fully developed "workers" (by which I mean a fully matured performer with a known skill set) and is putting them in the spots where they're most efficiently used. The Intercontinental Championship is the classic "here's our most talented not non-headliners" belt, and it's focused on the Miz, one of their best promo-workers, and Dolph Ziggler, one of their best in-ring-workers. AJ Styles is arguably the most prolific headliner across all professional wrestling, and he's willing to take the hits and pins for others and he'll protect those he defeats so they don't lose. Ambrose is a headliner for real now, being his own man and not a supplement for someone else. The Wyatts are combining with Orton to keep all of them in the spotlight. The most legitimate complaint we've heard is that Becky Lynch's run wasn't quite strong enough, but even its been worked decently otherwise.

All of those are both more conservative story decisions, but also more long-term plans designed to keep the performers in top-shape with the crowd. I'm kind of curious if perhaps that's the result of Shane having a bit more autonomy in resisting his father because he was willing to leave the WWE and took the B-show, and is thus able to get his father out of the creative room when they make Smackdown live.

 

[Dr Lee]

I agree with you about Becky, her run wasn't as powerful as it could have been...

 

[Loki882]

See I think that even SDL has problems. Ziggler is NOT a good example of how to use a performer efficiently. They seem to go out of their way to undermine his credibility when it counts the most. And as a result, no one takes him seriously as a legit contender anymore.

Becky Lynch has been made to look like a loser and a joke for basically her entire time of the main roster, and that hasn't changed on SDL.

They've got multiple other people who they're not really doing much with.

AJ lost to a comedy jobber three times.

Etc.

Is it better than Raw, sure. But I think that the praise is somewhat overstated, especially recently.