Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix Skepticism Thread

[GuestStar2004]

I just want a sense of direction.

Oddly whats kept this franchise going for as long as it has is probably the lack of direction

The MCU have held themselves together fairly well but at some point if it starts to crack the whole universe may fall apart under its weight but with FOX they don't have a consistent universe so while there might be a little bit of confusion there is certainly no weight there.

 

[Elayis]

I want good X-films but Kinberg is not the man for that job. Just look at my sig and you'll see that I have nothing against the franchise. But Kinberg is a talentless hack that at the very least needs to step away from the creative side if this franchise. If he want to be Fox's Feige then fine, I will pass on every film he has a hand in either writing or directing. I have never liked a film he has written and I doubt that will change anytime soon.

I would love to be wrong and fir Dark Phoenix to be a great movie, but that's as likely to happen as Michael Bay or Stephen Sommers to start turning out decent films.

 

[Zant]

The MCU is well organised but a bit predictable. The FOX X-verse is all over the place but its unpredictable. I guess its all about taste.I don't mind both... Feige did say things will be more flexible after Avengers 4. No more phases or fixed time periods.

 

[Zant]

I want good X-films but Kinberg is not the man for that job. Just look at my sig and you'll see that I have nothing against the franchise. But Kinberg is a talentless hack that at the very least needs to step away from the creative side if this franchise. If he want to be Fox's Feige then fine, I will pass on every film he has a hand in either writing or directing. I have never liked a film he has written and I doubt that will change anytime soon.

I would love to be wrong and fir Dark Phoenix to be a great movie, but that's as likely to happen as Michael Bay or Stephen Sommers to start turning out decent films.

The M. Night Shyamalan situation gives me hope for Bay lol.

 

[Elayis]

I'm not a big fan of the MCU exactly because you know what you're getting, there's not much new or interesting going on there. On the plus side, though, most of their films are relatively solid, unlike the desperate fumblings of Fox, Sony & WB.

Shyamalan's different than Bay, though, in that he started out in the business making great films. Bay's earlier work might've been more coherent, but it was still pretty bad. I like The Rock for what it is, but not much else of his.

I can't comment on Shyamalan, though, as I haven't seen his last couple films and have no desire to. We'll see how the Unbreakable sequel turns out.

 

[marvelrobbins]

dofp terrable? Ok then so don't bash me when i trash mcu films like spider-man homecoming or iron man 3 then.if dofp can be called terrable then i can call them terrable if i don't like mcu films.

and out of full x-men films not spinoffs last one not written by kinberg was x2.kinberg was script doctor on first class.

 

[Elayis]

dofp terrable? Ok then so don't bash me when i trash mcu films like spider-man homecoming or iron man 3 then.if dofp can be called terrable then i can call them terrable if i don't like mcu films.

Eh, Homecoming was alright but nothing special, and IM3 was pretty good at time but faltered from an uneven tone and unwritten roles.

I'm no MCU fanboy so don't expect excuses from me, but even their films that I don't like (GOTG1&2, Ant-Man, IM2, TDW) I'd take over DoFP in a heartbeat. That film was such a waste of all the actors involved, and a terrible final chapter for the original cast. I'm still amazed people somehow think that it's a good movie.

and out of full x-men films not spinoffs last one not written by kinberg was x2.kinberg was script doctor on first class.

He was? Are you sure about that? Even if true, the contributions of Vaughan and Goldman obviously outweighed whatever Winberg did. Or maybe now I can blame him for everything I didn't like about the movie.

 

[marvelrobbins]

Eh, Homecoming was alright but nothing special, and IM3 was pretty good at time but faltered from an uneven tone and unwritten roles.

I'm no MCU fanboy so don't expect excuses from me, but even their films that I don't like (GOTG1&2, Ant-Man, IM2, TDW) I'd take over DoFP in a heartbeat. That film was such a waste of all the actors involved, and a terrible final chapter for the original cast. I'm still amazed people somehow think that it's a good movie.



He was? Are you sure about that? Even if true, the contributions of Vaughan and Goldman obviously outweighed whatever Winberg did. Or maybe now I can blame him for everything I didn't like about the movie.

yes he was script doctor on first class.one of his jobs was to scrap the intended xavier-frost telepathic battle cut for budget which idea was reused for apocalypse xavier-apocalypse battle.that is whyf rost spent second half of first class as prisoner.

vaughn and goldman only discussed ideas with kinberg on dofp.script was all him.

nobody except die hard fanboy would ever call kinberg great writer.dofp just lucked out that singer was at top of game.i still prefer x2 over it.

while i like apocalypse more than others it certinly wasn't for script.singer and cast did best in spite of kinberg's script not because of it.and i still prefer both logan and first x-men over it.just like i prefer the wolverine over it and
deadpool-while i like fc and deadpool i feel both are overrated.only x films in don't like or hated catergry are last stand and origins.

being skeptical of kinberg left on his own isn't crazy.some with wanting end to x-men cinematic universe take it too far.

there are mcu films i like primly captain america trilogy,incredble hulk,and first iron man.and some have moments or elements i can enjoy.i iwll probally see infinfity war and it's sequel since it has characters i like-like cap and blck wido-who like jackman in x-men may soon be out the door even though even in comics i never cared about thanos it's about
certain avengers.

i will be glad when some things are known about dark phoenix though i doudt we get teaser before april.

 

[GuestStar2004]

unlike the desperate fumblings of Fox, Sony & WB.

Looking at fox i don't see any desperate fumbling.

 

[GuestStar2004]

vaughn and goldman only discussed ideas with kinberg on dofp.script was all him.

Alot of what we got was on Vaughn, and even when Singer came onboard he didn't actually change that much at all.

dofp just lucked out that singer was at top of game.

No matter how much Singer was on his game it doesn't change that the film isn't 91% on RT all because of Singers direction of the script.

 

[marvelrobbins]

Alot of what we got was on Vaughn, and even when Singer came onboard he didn't actually change that much at all.



No matter how much Singer was on his game it doesn't change that the film isn't 91% on RT all because of Singers direction of the script.

except film is director's medum.dofp turned out way it did because of singer.

vaughn and goldman meerly disucssed ideas with kinberg.

 

[GuestStar2004]

vaughn and goldman meerly disucssed ideas with kinberg.

By the time vaughn left there was already a script, admittedly it had juggernault in it rather then quicksilver.

 

[Elayis]

Looking at fox i don't see any desperate fumbling.

What would you call X3, Origins, Apocalypse? Where's the Gambit film? Fox seemed bound and determined to sabotage Deadpool from the very beginning. What the hell was going on with the Viper and The Wolverine's third act? DoFP's success was more of a happy accident than anything else. And looking forward, do New Mutants, Dark Phoenix or Multiple Man look like their in the best possible hands?

At the moment, the only X projects that intersest me are Deadpool 2 & X-Force, and even those I'm unsure of. Too bad the promise of First Class was never capitalized on.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Where's the Gambit film?

On the way apparently

Although if they were desperately fumbling they probably would just have rushed it out a long ago rather then sitting on it till they decided to do it

You could bet if it was Sony gambit would have been rushed out ages ago.

do New Mutants, Dark Phoenix or Multiple Man look like their in the best possible hands?

Depends what you are looking for i guess.

 

[2kt09]

What would you call X3, Origins, Apocalypse? Where's the Gambit film? Fox seemed bound and determined to sabotage Deadpool from the very beginning. What the hell was going on with the Viper and The Wolverine's third act? DoFP's success was more of a happy accident than anything else.

I'm curious what the desperation is with Apocalypse. That was underway the moment they decided to do a prequel to X-Men all the way back when they wanted other Origin movies.

First Class was the happy accident that they had the balls to go all out for the sequel even though barely many saw FC.

 

[Elayis]

On the way apparently

Although if they were desperately fumbling they probably would just have rushed it out a long ago rather then sitting on it till they decided to do it

You could bet if it was Sony gambit would have been rushed out ages ago.



Depends what you are looking for i guess.

I'm glad Gambit is not being rushed, but if they weren't confident about their actor and director choice they shouldn't have announced it. And I'm still not sure about Tatum. Like with all of these movies, they need to make sure that not only is the filmmaker passionate but that their ideas are actually good and can be realized.

With their upcoming slate of films, it obviously comes down to personal taste. With Jackman gone, the future of the X-franchise looks a little dimmer. I question Fox's decision to give Dark Phoenix to Kinberg after Apocalypse. Even if he wrote the well regarded DoFP, you can't help but look at his involvement with FF & Apocalypse and see red flags. It all depends on if the movie is good, but I have a hard time believing that will be the outcome with him at the helm.

New Mutants looks like generic horror trash, but that might be down to them having very little usable footage with production having ended so recently. If so, they should've waited.

Deadpool is the only slam dunk I see, provided the movie is good. The other are too early in development to say much about.

 

[Weather Witch]

What would you call X3

I would call that eleven years ago.

Origins

5 movies with positive reviews, 1 movie with mixed reviews and 3.46 billion US$ ago.

Apocalypse?

A misstep sure, but was hit by terrible marketing and release date more than anything else. Not a great movie certainly, but Fox isn't exactly sweating with 2 TV-series and 3 other movies next year.

Where's the Gambit film?

February 14, 2019 in a cinema near you.

Fox seemed bound and determined to sabotage Deadpool from the very beginning.

If you are still buying into the whole 'studio defying movie' thing with Deadpool then I'm really not sure what to say. It's smart marketing sure, but also: lol no.

And looking forward, do New Mutants, Dark Phoenix or Multiple Man look like their in the best possible hands?

New Mutants, Deadpool 2, Legion and The Gifted are in great hands. Multiple Man we have to see and yes Simon Kinberg for Dark Phoenix is worrying, but lets at least wait until we get a trailer. I know this franchise has a lot of flaws and there are certain aspects they've never gotten right. But the only thing they've really been fumbling with since 2009 is the fact that they wanted to do 70 different things at the same time with X-Men: Apocalypse. And even that got a sequel pretty much straight away.

 

[Elayis]

I would call that eleven years ago.

5 movies with positive reviews, 1 movie with mixed reviews and 3.46 billion US$ ago.

A misstep sure, but was hit by terrible marketing and release date more than anything else. Not a great movie certainly, but Fox isn't exactly sweating with 2 TV-series and 3 other movies next year.

February 14, 2019 in a cinema near you.

If you are still buying into the whole 'studio defying movie' thing with Deadpool then I'm really not sure what to say. It's smart marketing sure, but also: lol no.

New Mutants, Deadpool 2, Legion and The Gifted are in great hands. Multiple Man we have to see and yes Simon Kinberg for Dark Phoenix is worrying, but lets at least wait until we get a trailer. I know this franchise has a lot of flaws and there are certain aspects they've never gotten right. But the only thing they've really been fumbling with since 2009 is the fact that they wanted to do 70 different things at the same time with X-Men: Apocalypse. And even that got a sequel pretty much straight away.

The only reason Deadpool happened was because of the leak. Then as they were shooting the budget got cut. Obviously if a movie's good the release date doesn't really matter, but perhaps it was put in February by execs that thought it a failure and wanted it to die. My point is, outside of the people directly making the film, how many at Fox actually thought it do anything other than fail, let alone become such a runaway hit?

Forgot about The Gifted. What a terrible, terrible show. Luckily Legion did well for them, but I found it to be extremely overrated and haven't managed to force myself past the first episode yet.

And I forgot about FF, but it's not an X-film so I'll leave it out of this conversation.

 

[psylockolussus]

I agree with this. I am an X-Men fan first, Marvel fan second. But I'm gonna admit, if there's one thing that the MCU gets right and to which people respond well, it's that they have a plan for everyone and it's what keeps people invested, assuring their attendance when the next movie comes out.

I can't say the same for Fox. I waited for some kind of payoff with the First Class ending with Emma Frost or heck, with the FC team of Havok and Banshee, or even the stinger of Mystique impersonating Stryker at the end of DOFP, but none came. There's talk of an X-23 spinoff and I'm quite excited for that, but I'm not getting my hopes up that the kid characters I got invested in will be showing up under the same incarnation. I won't be surprised if Rictor gets recast. The same way that Caliban had two different incarnations less than a year apart. Then we'll beat ourselves up tying to make excuses that this could be another timeline thing. That's the thing we have come to expect from Fox and it's so frustrating. I do not want predictability. I just want a sense of direction.

Its really the time for the rights to go to Disney!

 

[psylockolussus]

What would you call X3, Origins, Apocalypse? Where's the Gambit film? Fox seemed bound and determined to sabotage Deadpool from the very beginning. What the hell was going on with the Viper and The Wolverine's third act? DoFP's success was more of a happy accident than anything else. And looking forward, do New Mutants, Dark Phoenix or Multiple Man look like their in the best possible hands?

At the moment, the only X projects that intersest me are Deadpool 2 & X-Force, and even those I'm unsure of. Too bad the promise of First Class was never capitalized on.

Don't forget Fantastic Four, Daredevil and Elektra. And whatever happened to the 2017 Fantastic Four film? Nothing. A mess.

 

[GuestStar2004]

The only reason Deadpool happened was because of the leak. Then as they were shooting the budget got cut.

From what i heard it was the other way round.

FOX only gave Deadpool a budget of 50 mil but that went up a tiny bit during production

F4 was the film that Fox cut 20 mil from the budget at the start of filming so 2 big action scenes had to be taken out.

 

[marvelrobbins]

From what i heard it was the other way round.

FOX only gave Deadpool a budget of 50 mil but that went up a tiny bit during production

F4 was the film that Fox cut 20 mil from the budget at the start of filming so 2 big action scenes had to be taken out.

the idea fox only made deadpool because of leak is ridculas.it was leaked to see if there was intrest in deadpool.

it's funny how some treat fox as devil and then act if people online could force them to spend 50 million on film lol and they ended up spending 58 million on it.

this franchise isn't in sorry shape some try to make it out on.fox controlling costs is keeping it going.meanwhile wb is losing money with justice league and who knows what is happening there.

fox ignoring murdocks possibly selling to someone is moving full speed ahead with gifted ariing now legion season 2 coming soon.3 films in 2018 and gambit coming in earlty 2019.other films are in pipeline provided fox remains in business.

 

[Weather Witch]

The only reason Deadpool happened was because of the leak.

What you mean is that they found a smart way to generate awareness and see what the general response would be.

Then as they were shooting the budget got cut.

They did take some money off before shooting to be fair, but during and after only more and more money was put into it, especially if you consider the marketing budget.

but perhaps it was put in February by execs that thought it a failure and wanted it to die.

By that logic they'd have to think Logan would be a total failure and New Mutants is going to be as well.

My point is, outside of the people directly making the film, how many at Fox actually thought it do anything other than fail, let alone become such a runaway hit?

There is a reason the studio was interested making this movie since 2005. I know the popular narrative is that this is the little movie that could within the evil studio that didn't trust it, but said studio wanted to make this before The Last Stand and Origins Wolverine even happened. Sure, it didn't get an enormous budget because of being unproven territory (and most importantly rated-r), but that doesn't mean they expected it to fail at all. Don't forget that Deadpool originally was separate from the X-Men deal between Fox and Marvel. The two were only merged later on from what we've been told.

Forgot about The Gifted. What a terrible, terrible show. Luckily Legion did well for them, but I found it to be extremely overrated and haven't managed to force myself past the first episode yet.

Hey, to each their own there. Both shows have been well received so far.

 

[marvelrobbins]

I'm curious what the desperation is with Apocalypse. That was underway the moment they decided to do a prequel to X-Men all the way back when they wanted other Origin movies.

First Class was the happy accident that they had the balls to go all out for the sequel even though barely many saw FC.

it has been obvious what fox's direction.they brought the original cast for dofp to have event film to create more intrest in new cast which failed.

if first class didn't cause end of franchise then why should apocalypse.

 

[marvelrobbins]

What you mean is that they found a smart way to generate awareness and see what the general response would be.

They did take some money off before shooting to be fair, but during and after only more and more money was put into it, especially if you consider the marketing budget.

By that logic they'd have to think Logan would be a total failure and New Mutants is going to be as well.

There is a reason the studio was interested making this movie since 2005. I know the popular narrative is that this is the little movie that could within the evil studio that didn't trust it, but said studio wanted to make this before The Last Stand and Origins Wolverine even happened. Sure, it didn't get an enormous budget because of being unproven territory (and most importantly rated-r), but that doesn't mean they expected it to fail at all. Don't forget that Deadpool originally was separate from the X-Men deal between Fox and Marvel. The two were only merged later on from what we've been told.

Hey, to each their own there. Both shows have been well received so far.

don't forget fox in 2000 spent 75 million on x-men and in 2016 58 million on deadpool.some of comments on deadpool just make me laugh.fox spent 58 million on film with first time drector and star who has history of being box office poison and r rating and they deserve no credit for it.

neither show has been blowing away in ratings.legion is more ciritcly acclaimed though the gifted has good reviews and audence scores.