Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix Skepticism Thread

[def28]

What's with this 1 billion talk? Right now X-Men should be hitting at least 600m and over 200m domestic. Not 1 billion. Deadpool can easily hit that and Logan can as well. Those are not family films, kids under 17 can't buy a ticket and the tones are polar opposites. Audiences want good films. The tone can be Dark Knight and Logan or Spider-Man and Deadpool. Doens't matter.

There have been far too many ups and downs for the main series to hit an insane number. Is the series capable of hitting 1 bil at some point? Of course but not with the route they go. Too many characters are looked at like background or side players which is horrible on the marketing side of things and the quality of Apocalypse was just too low.

Now they need a DOFP or X2 to get them back in the swing. Fox won't want another drop in box office.

 

[marvelrobbins]

Sorry, but the "$1B or it failed" meme is just a meme.

Anyway, the problem Fox is going to keep having (if only making hundreds of millions in revenue on X-Men instead of reaching the meme number is a problem) is that the movies haven't been reaching for the fun-for-the-whole-family vibe. That's the difference.

Most of the folks who go see the superhero comedies don't read comics. Not reaching a billion has nothing to do with comic book geeks (but the opposite, actually).

the fun for the whole family doesn't apply for x-men.X-men isn't superhero comedy.ok deadpool in solo films is.

 

[def28]

This is some super dark ****!

[YT]4IyqZ3Lj0-o[/YT]

Look at the top comment there.

Families go to X-Men films guys. That's why the X-Men are mainstream blockbusters and have lasted two decades. The most popular character in this new trilogy has been a comic relief speedster.

 

[YoungBlood]

Sorry, but the "$1B or it failed" meme is just a meme.

Anyway, the problem Fox is going to keep having (if only making hundreds of millions in revenue on X-Men instead of reaching the meme number is a problem) is that the movies haven't been reaching for the fun-for-the-whole-family vibe. That's the difference.

Most of the folks who go see the superhero comedies don't read comics. Not reaching a billion has nothing to do with comic book geeks (but the opposite, actually).

Exactly. Comic book geeks (the true ones, not the hipster/jumping on the bandwagon ones) only make up a small margin of the movie audience.

 

[YoungBlood]

the fun for the whole family doesn't apply for x-men.X-men isn't superhero comedy.ok deadpool in solo films is.

Deadpool isn't supposed to be fun for the whole family.

 

[marvelrobbins]

Exactly. Comic book geeks (the true ones, not the hipster/jumping on the bandwagon ones) only make up a small margin of the movie audience.

I agree.x-men films.mcu,and dc films all attract people who know nothing about the comics.part of deadpool appeal to ga was taking piss out of genre.

 

[X-Maniac]

Sorry, but the "$1B or it failed" meme is just a meme.

Anyway, the problem Fox is going to keep having (if only making hundreds of millions in revenue on X-Men instead of reaching the meme number is a problem) is that the movies haven't been reaching for the fun-for-the-whole-family vibe. That's the difference.

Most of the folks who go see the superhero comedies don't read comics. Not reaching a billion has nothing to do with comic book geeks (but the opposite, actually).

Only four of the MCU films have reached a billion. While the Avengers had Whedon's quippy style (and it worked wonders), Age of Ultron, Iron Man 3 and CA: Civil War can hardly be described as comedies. Avengers wasn't a comedy either.

GoTG is probably the most comedic and people did love it (I was there when they were all roaring with laughter at the characters eyes popping out of their heads during the space jumps) but neither of the GoTG have reached a billion.

They all have pop culture appeal though, and Deadpool had that same appeal.

X-Men films as a whole are much darker though there are ways of doing dark storylines without having everyone be a tormented neurotic.

Also, if they're going to put J-Law in there, give her something to act with instead of having her walking round waiting for her paycheck while looking just like J-Law does in real life.

 

[marvelrobbins]

Deadpool isn't supposed to be fun for the whole family.

well point was x-men isn't comedy.deadpool in solo films can be comedy.of course i know deadpool isn't fun for the familyt: that is why i say the deadpool film we got would never have been made by disney.

 

[Mad Ones]

Ultron in Age of Ultron was basically a comedian.

 

[Frankeh]

Anyway, the problem Fox is going to keep having (if only making hundreds of millions in revenue on X-Men instead of reaching the meme number is a problem) is that the movies haven't been reaching for the fun-for-the-whole-family vibe. That's the difference.

Um, Apocalypse making less money than DOFP is absolutely a problem. And Apocalypse did reach for the fun-for-the-whole-family vibe as def28 proved, while a movie like Dark Knight absolutely didn't and made more money. You're just trying to shift the blame making it look like the artistic vision behind X-Men movies is uncompromising and therefore it doesn't sell as well, when these movies are made thinking money first as it usually is, they're not auteur projects. I think the problem lied elsewhere... maybe the characters at the front of the FC trilogy aren't as much of a sell as Jackman and co., maybe the movie looked bad, I don't know.

 

[Smilodon]

This is some super dark ****!

[YT]4IyqZ3Lj0-o[/YT]

Look at the top comment there.

Families go to X-Men films guys. That's why the X-Men are mainstream blockbusters and have lasted two decades. The most popular character in this new trilogy has been a comic relief speedster.

This. The X-Men don't have tonal issues - they are comfortably settled between the MCU and DCEU. Singer and Vaughn have actually done a great job of being serious, heartfelt and humorous, even in the lesser well-received X-Men films. Miller, Hawley and Mangold have then expanded the boundaries even further by showing just how far these characters can be taken. We don't need anymore darkness or humor than there already is for the mainline films (nor is the audience incapable of discerning between varying tones for superhero films) - we just need a good story and movie. That'll solve a whole lot of issues first and foremost.

Apocalypse's issue wasn't that Apocalypse was killing people left and right nor was it Peter and Kurt's humor or the violence of the Weapon X sequence. It just didn't work as cohesive whole. In fact, the latter two points are often what people list as standouts from the film.

 

[def28]

Totally. For the most part the script was the issue.

There is such a vast amount of comic properties now between the three main studios. All of them have their dark material, adult subject matter and all of them have lighter/more fun moments. Wonder Woman was pretty well balanced and very welcomed with DC in terms of tone. These films can offer a bit of everything, more so then other genre's.

Right now I love how Fox has Logan, Deadpool and Legion. They are all so vastly different but have such a clear vision. I think all of those are darker and have more adult material then the main X-Men films. But even with those there is no way kids are staying away from them in the days of social media and streaming. There is too much appeal and they have the access. So even if their parents won't take them to the R stuff, they still have their ways.

With X-Men they have been around for ever and were the only game in town outside of Spidey and Bats. The goal was always to have a wide audience. Not to attract only middle aged dudes who think the material is somehow too elevated for kids and family to see it. There's no money in that haha. It's like people want to act like they never watched or read X-Men as a kid. There were numerous cartoons alone.

 

[JP]

This. The X-Men don't have tonal issues - they are comfortably settled between the MCU and DCEU. Singer and Vaughn have actually done a great job of being serious, heartfelt and humorous, even in the lesser well-received X-Men films. Miller, Hawley and Mangold have then expanded the boundaries even further by showing just how far these characters can be taken. We don't need anymore darkness or humor than there already is for the mainline films (nor is the audience incapable of discerning between varying tones for superhero films) - we just need a good story and movie. That'll solve a whole lot of issues first and foremost.

Apocalypse's issue wasn't that Apocalypse was killing people left and right nor was it Peter and Kurt's humor or the violence of the Weapon X sequence. It just didn't work as cohesive whole. In fact, the latter two points are often what people list as standouts from the film.

Also, DoFP made money because it was good.

XMA made less because it wasn't. Not because of the lack of any OT actor. Some franchises are critic proof, and the X-films haven't been that way since 2006.

Though the recent performance of the Pirates and Transformers films show that no franchise is critic-proof anymore...

 

[marvelrobbins]

if people really see no difference between x-men and mcu then i don't know what to say.

even the dakrest and most serious x-men films has moments of humor.but with x-men you have prejudice allegory meanwhile in mcu you have stark who is quiping and being smartalachy as much as possable.

the odds are very strong ailens in dark phoenix will be very different from ailens in gotg.

 

[def28]

Having the themes of acceptance and prejudice does not automatically make this the darkest franchise ever only for adults. Zootopia deals with that. That's hardly an excuse for families not to show up to these.

Those messages in X-Men are positive ones, that sadly don't hit as well as they should sometimes.

 

[EnDz0n3]

I'll take a quippy/smart alecky Tony Stark over a bored/X-men leadery Raven Darkholme. True story.

 

[BeholdMe]

Also, DoFP made money because it was good.

XMA made less because it wasn't. Not because of the lack of any OT actor. Some franchises are critic proof, and the X-films haven't been that way since 2006.

Though the recent performance of the Pirates and Transformers films show that no franchise is critic-proof anymore...

Facts simply put, this is the reason as to why it made less. DOFP was a far better movie it was put together very well. They see the mistakes they made with Apocalypse and finish the FX this time and i think the movie will be good.

 

[Smilodon]

A proper usage of Peter and Kurt (and if she's around, Jubilee) are going to be vital for the next film. Stark is quippy sure, but his character allows for banter that fleshes characters out. Wolverine filled that role amongst the senior X-Men and the kids in the OT, and that role will have to go to someone else in these next films. Having someone who the writers actually enjoy making them joke around and write dialogue for (like Kodi and Evan, who are great in their respective) will allow us to have you know, actual conversations between these characters.

The X-Men having subtext doesn't mean everything automatically becomes self-serious and grim, and the FC trilogy proves that. There's added weight and drama sure, but we've seen the same themes updated into more modern CBM visuals as time has gone along. Furthermore, this franchise needs to stop going to the same persecution allegory well. That's why they started throwing in time travel and robots and satirical characters and will now include demon bears and aliens and most likely a villain whose ability is to control plants etc. The X-Men can be more dramatic sure, but there's different forms of that to explore with these characters.

 

[fobi]

It's sad that this is the biggest thread of the section. LOL

 

[def28]

The X-Men having subtext doesn't mean everything automatically becomes self-serious and grim, and the FC trilogy proves that. There's added weight and drama sure, but we've seen the same themes updated into more modern CBM visuals as time has gone along. Furthermore, this franchise needs to stop going to the same persecution allegory well. That's why they started throwing in time travel and robots and satirical characters and will now include demon bears and aliens and most likely a villain whose ability is to control plants etc. The X-Men can be more dramatic sure, but there's different forms of that to explore with these characters.

Demon Bears and Aliens who wear feathered crests only interest the most mature and non fun seeking adult audiences though haha. If only they can find a dragon to pair up with one of their heroines. That will really keep familes and those kids seeking cool entertainment away...

 

[2kt09]

That's why they started throwing in satirical characters

You talking about Colossus and NTW?

 

[psylockolussus]

I'll take a quippy/smart alecky Tony Stark over a bored/X-men leadery Raven Darkholme. True story.

I'd take a joke a minute X-Men movies than a Kinberg Marvel Cinematic Universe with Raven/Erik as the stars of the X-Men.

 

[Kreem Pi]

That would work if people didn't start complaining about the people complaining. This is a divisive project that I don't see non-X-men fans on the internet being excited about tbh. But perhaps I'm wrong.

This is a very recent phenomenon. This site has been able to discuss the positives and negatives in the same thread without much trouble in the very recent past. I dunno what turned people into snowflakes.

 

[marvelrobbins]

This is a very recent phenomenon. This site has been able to discuss the positives and negatives in the same thread without much trouble in the very recent past. I dunno what turned people into snowflakes.

people were going to complain about this film nomatter what.what makes it worse is Kinberg directing.

as long as it's fox not disney making x-men films and it's not a reboot some will complain.kinberg as sole writer and also director just makes it worse.even among those who liked apocalypse.

 

[Kreem Pi]

as long as it's fox not disney making x-men films and it's not a reboot some will complain.

Last time I checked, Disney is making Homecoming. Go to the Homecoming boards and see the psychotic level of irrelevant nitpicks and complaints there. Your theory doesn't hold up.