X-men forum debate #9: The Cure

[Angamb]

X-men forum debate #9:
The Cure​

As everyone know, X-men: The Last Stand had two main plots: Dark Phoenix (the emotional one, according to the studio & company) and the Cure (the political one).

All of us have discussed about Phoenix enough, so let's talk about the cure:

Was the plot used well?

Did it justice to the source material, Whedon's arc in Astonishing xmen?

The scenes/characters involving the cure in X3... were good enough or no?

What could have been done?, What was poor and needed more development?

Any scene that would have been great, powerfull, intereting, emotional, sad...?

Post your thoughts.

Edit: Was the script/movie politically strong, having a really polemic plot like is the cure?

 

[November Rain]

the cure was supposed to be the temptation for people to take so that they could become normal like everyone else.

The irony that it was actually based on a mutant power was nice but the cure should have actually been deadly, similar to magneto's plan were inevitably deadly in teh first film.

they shouldn't have let any of the x-men team take it since the films are pretty much about accepting your different. ESPECIALLY rogue since it destroyed what little character development she had since the first film.

overall i think the whole thing was handled poorly and shouldn;t have been mixed with the pheonix plot as it's was diluted.

however i'm glad that the effects are seen to not be permanent as it now means they have a chance in the future to do it properly.

 

[javphonic]

Was the plot used well?
-I don't think it was used well, personally and i think I've posted this before, but the cure should have been a stand alone film maybe for X4 after and Phoenix for X3 they could have easily went with just dark phoenix's destructive rampage, and then as a result in x4 the develop the cure as they've witnessed how powerful mutants can become or maybe save the Phoenix for X4

Did it justice to the source material, Whedon's arc in Astonishing xmen?
-In some ways, but not entirely, they should have devled more into Whedon's notes and made that their main focus, not that their interpretation was horrible, but it wasn't great either

The scenes/characters involving the cure in X3... were good enough or no?
-The scene where Rogue rushes to confirm the cure with the teachers I think was good, it showed a stronger side to Storm and I think movie-Rogue's reaction is dead on her character

What could have been done?, What was poor and needed more development?
-Rogue should have had a larger role, and interaction with Beast, and eventually not take the cure
-Phoenix shouldn't have been included maybe in X4
-The Professor reveals to Scott he has a bro and sends him to go visit him and heal from Jean's loss (this would have been a better way to shorten J Marsden's role due to Sups Return conflict and save him for further films)

Any scene that would have been great, powerfull, intereting, emotional, sad...?
-Collosus' sister should have been introed like Bobby seeing a picture and he tells her who she is and how he's trying to get her to come to America, then later in the film she could turn up at the school and tell her big bro she's here to take the cure. Obviously as her big bro he'll forbid her, but eventually she'll defy him. In the end she'll return cured and they'll get into a huge squabble and she'll run off to catch her flight back to Russia he will be torn on whether to accept her or not. Someone'll remind him that she'll always be his sis and he'll rush to the airport, and she'll already've left (for further films the cure could react negatively over time and become the legacy virus and would be perfect story in a further film)

 

[taintedFB]

I thought the cure was done fairly well, though it was rushed. I think it would have been better for Rogue to contemplate it over the course of the film, perhaps talking to BEAST whose power makes him very different and they could discuss their own issues... I think she ultimately should NOT have taken it. And I think it would have been wise to see her at the clinic, and realizing it was a mistake, and not use the cliched boyfriend wants sex tactic...

I think the cure plot could be advanced in a future movie with Sentinels rounding up mutants and forcing it on them....

The fact that it is temporary, I'm still debating. Considering how many important characters were cured, it's a good out. But then again, it makes the whole thing pointless in the end...

Still, with the exception of ROGUE's VERY WRONG Decision, I thought the cure was handled better than Phoenix which should have included a stronger role for Scott and Jean to share.

 

[BMM]

The Cure should have been saved for a later film rather than being shoehorned into this one.

...and then there's Rogue...

The X-Men stand in the face of adversity and societal pressures to conform, saying it's okay to be accepting of yourself and who you are, because there's nothing wrong with you, but rather, it's those that are unaccepting of you who are wrong...

...and then Rogue gives in and cures herself. Fantastic.

 

[taintedFB]

I know. I think it was SO STUPID. Especially since they shot it both ways, then went with the WRONG choice! Why?

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

The decision to cure Rogue was the wrong decision, plain and simple.

Other than that, I think the cure was handled rather well. I think more could have been done with it, sure, but overall I think it was handled well.

 

[flavio_lebeau]

Let's not even talk about Rogue.

The cure plot is simply brilliant. But it's handled like a third grade B movie, which just means, terribly. There were so many characters, that none of them had time to show their true stance on the cure. It was too superficial for such a deep plot.

Should Phoenix be pushed to another sequel in favor of the cure plot? No way, we all say that because, and after, we saw X3. But if we hand't seen Phoenix at all, I fear we might have entered the Third World War, ruled by nerds. Phoenix HAD to be in X3. But no one would expect she would suck, we all thought movie Phoenix would be like Jesus returning to earth. Well, it wasn't at all. But I'm still glad she made it to the movies. This is way off topic too, so I'll stop.

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

The cure concept was good,the idea that ther could possibly be a cure for mutation.Good,but i think it was sort of done bad in the film.Common sence,would have it that humans would use it as a weapons against mutants.I sort of think Phoenix was overshadowed by it.

 

[Abaddon]

It wasn't handled terribly but it could have been much better. As November Rain said, it diluted the Phoenix plot. I also think it was too early a topic to discuss in these films. Rogue's decision would have been lame even if she decided against it, since her feelings about it were developed in all of 7 minutes of her screentime. Also I think that alot of those freakish mutants would consider curing themselves as well. I'm still not too sure how I feel about Magneto's reaction to Mystique's depowering.

 

[the a1ant]

I do like how they tied the cure into Phoenix and why she would side with Magneto. Xavier basically tried to hold her back (take away her powers somewhat), and she felt that those trying to 'cure' mutants should be punished. They should have focused on that aspect a lot more, so people could understand Jean's motives, etc.

Besides that, I didn't really feel much emotion from the whole cure plot. Lots more could've been done with it, and like some have said...that's a film in itself. I think having an X-Man involuntarily getting the cure would've been more dramatic and better than having one of them decide to take it.

Curing Rogue was a bad mistake, and (for me) it totally destroyed the character. She was slowly supposed to evolve and accept her powers in this trilogy. Not take a huge step backwards. =/

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

The premise and concept of the cure was brilliant.

But the execution was terrible...and rushed.

 

[danoyse]

Agreed. It's a great idea for a story, it just wasn't well played out at all.

We had this great scene with Bobby's parents in X2, all we had in this movie is Warren asking if he could talk with his father about taking the cure, and his father answering, "We've talked about it, son."

The worst thing with Rogue is that they never showed any reason why should would want to keep those powers in the movie. Anyone who wasn't a fan of the comics had no idea about the cool stuff she was able to do with those powers. They started it a little in X2, but from the start of X3 is all about kissing her boyfriend. They could have done so much more.

The cure's a great idea...it was a wasted opportunity, unfortunately.

 

[X-Maniac]

The cure should have been the fulcrum of the story - the central point about which everything revolved.

Mystique being cured could have been shown as an event that motivated Magneto into being even more determined to stop the cure for good. We could have seen a scene in which he mentioned Mystique and that he was doing what he was doing for her. Of course, that would then have made her betrayal of his location seem odd, which must be why they didn't do this.

Phoenix's destruction at her parents' house could have been mentioned by Beast and the President in their chat as another example of a mutant threat that triggered the cure to be weaponised. Of course, this would then make the X-Men and Xavier into baddies for creating/freeing the Phoenix, which is obviously why it wasn't done.

Phoenix should have been more strongly motivated by the idea of the cure being the ultimate caging of the Phoenix. This was hinted at in Magneto's dialogue at Jean's house ('You'd think you want to cure her Charles') and in Magneto's speech at the camp ('This is what they want for all of us') but I'd have rather seen more from Phoenix instead of silent internalised turmoils that made her seem a zombie on screen (in the novelisation she is far from a zombie, she is reflecting back on her life and on what has happened and what will become of her, she is truly a lost soul... difficult to show such private angst in a movie).

 

[ToriL90]

I liked the cure storyline. I have a few gripes with how Rogue was used; but overall, I like the storyline.

If X3 is the end, then it was the wrong choice to cure her. If there will be an X4, however, then curing her creates a number of interesting storylines when the cure wears off; so my issues are more with the buildup to her taking the cure than her actually taking it.

I posted in another thread what I think should have been done differently with Bobby and Kitty, which would have filtered down into the handling of Rogue:

I think that in the Danger Room scene, Bobby should have cringed and ducked his head down when the missile was going through him and Kitty. When he ducked him head, his cheek would have brushed against Kitty, and the skin-on-skin contact might have felt erotic to somebody who can't have that level of contact with his own girlfriend.

Then, in the Skating scene, Kitty should have been wearing short sleeves so that when he was holding her, he would have been touching skin. He could have rubbed her arm in what he might have rationalized as a reassuring gesture, when it was really to enjoy the skin contact. Also, I don't think they should have had him smile at her like he did in that scene. Instead, it should have been something more like bedroom eyes. It was obvious that they were trying to get across his attraction to her, but I don't think they were as successful as they could have been. The smile looks more friendly, whereas if he would have looked at Kitty the same way he looked at Rogue when they were in his bedroom in X2, the point would have gotten across a lot more clearly.

It might have been a good idea for Rogue and Bobby to have had one more fight, ine which Rogue confronts him about Kitty and he rationalizes the attention he gives her. That scene could have come in between the funeral and the skating scenes.

 

[iamlegend]

I thought the cure was a fantastic idea, though poorly used.

There should have been more scenes where the X-Men themselves came face to face with people who were opting to take the cure. So they could REALLY see what it meant to certain mutants.

The X-Men can say "accept who you are" all they want, but as the Morlocks have always said, 99% of the X-Men have no perspective on the situation at all. They're almost all beautiful people with perfectly useful powers.

They don't know what it's like for the mutant community at large.

 

[taintedFB]

It was rushed and not personalized enough.... but I thought it was done well, we just needed MORE!

 

[TKing]

What we saw was great. Rogue's reaction particularly was impressive. The touching moment when Hank sees the effects of the cure firsthand was one of the best in the trilogy (in my opinion)!

Phoenix should have been more strongly motivated by the idea of the cure being the ultimate caging of the Phoenix.

I agree with this. In my opinion, that's the only way I see it could have been improved. Connect the two storylines (Gifted and Dark Phoenix Saga) more significantly, so that:

• The cure is partly the motive behind Phoenix's interest (and subsequent destruction of Alcatraz)
• And make Phoenix an escalating reason why the cure would be weaponized

 

[Angamb]

Well, in my opinion the cure was the best plot idea of the three films, but definetly was a lost oportunity.

I didn't feel anything about the cure, there wasn't emotion at all around it, the political side was poor too, they should have showed the reality of this thread, more debates between the characters, both the politicians, humans, and the x-men, and mutants in general. We see a few momments, but too much quickly, that none can think about what we see in the film.

All the characters around the cure were poor, I mean, their development: Rogue, Angel, his father, Dr. Rao, Leech, Beast...

I, for example, would have wished to see a scene of a family, in their home, with a mutant son or daughter, and see at least his/her parents looking at eachother, worried, insecure... and looking to their son, with a shot of his face, afraid, or sad... don't know... just see emotions!

About the X-men, well... show that they care about the students, that are worried too, not only with all the kids, but specially about the unhappy mutants, like Rogue, one of the main characters of the trilogy. Rogue should have been a main plot in the film, the same as Phoenix, of course (not Logan and Magneto, how it really was).

Don't know what more can I say... Definetly, the Cure could have been the only plot of an entire film, but too could have been fixed with the Phoenix in a better way, with a two hours movie.

 

[Heatwave]

the cure was supposed to be the temptation for people to take so that they could become normal like everyone else.

The irony that it was actually based on a mutant power was nice but the cure should have actually been deadly, similar to magneto's plan were inevitably deadly in teh first film.

they shouldn't have let any of the x-men team take it since the films are pretty much about accepting your different. ESPECIALLY rogue since it destroyed what little character development she had since the first film.

overall i think the whole thing was handled poorly and shouldn;t have been mixed with the pheonix plot as it's was diluted.

however i'm glad that the effects are seen to not be permanent as it now means they have a chance in the future to do it properly.

Actually, I have to disagree with you on that. For one thing, at the end of the movie, Magneto's powers started to come back. Remember when the chess piece started to move on its own? That means that Rogue's powers would eventually return as well. I think it's a great way to help her character, and should they decide to make a fourth movie based off of X3, it would be great if they could use the return of her abilities to kill (or nearly kill) Bobby Drake. That would lend credence to the name 'Marie' took - Rogue. She could then become distant, or Bobby could leave, or something to make it more like the comics. Obviously, I wouldn't want Iceman to go - he's the coolest - but it would certainly be a minor fix to the situation. As for Magneto, it would mean that he would still be in the picture and the entire plot would give him ammunition in his next assault upon the human population. "See what they tried to do to us?" he could say. Anyway...I think it was a good plot overall.

 

[Angamb]

Have you thought any scene that would have been interesting to see? something emotional, powerfull, in the political side....

 

[iamlegend]

Have you thought any scene that would have been interesting to see? something emotional, powerfull, in the political side....

I would have liked to see a basic debate between MORE of the X-Men about the morality of the cure, rather than just having Storm rant and rave about how it was evil.

I felt like at least a few main characters should have taken the "freedom of choice" standpoint, rather than just feeling sorry for people that took it.

 

[ToriL90]

I would have liked to see a basic debate between MORE of the X-Men about the morality of the cure, rather than just having Storm rant and rave about how it was evil.

I felt like at least a few main characters should have taken the "freedom of choice" standpoint, rather than just feeling sorry for people that took it.

You think the X-Men should have had a "Freedom of Choice" standpoint? I think the cure goes against everything they stand for. Some of the X-Men, like Rogue, might feel differently, but it seems to me that the general concensus amongst the X-Men should be that it's wrong.

 

[flavio_lebeau]

Rogue's case is complicated. We're not able to use the old "what if she was black? what if she was gay? The others are the ones who have to accept her, she doesn't need to change".

Rogue's case is more like "what if you didn't have an arm? Would you really stay without an arm just for self-assurement? Or would just choose to have a new one" Her case is not entirely about prejudice against minorities. It's about handicap.

I would have no problem with her taking the cure, as long as her character was developed enough for us to feel for her. We just don't care, and actually despise Rpgue for what she did. And imo, it is all due to poor screenwriting. Anna was out for most of the production, true, but her scenes could still be a little longer and overall, a lot better written. I've already given loads of examples of how, with the same amount of scenes, she could actually have an interesting arc.

 

[Sun_Down]

They really rushed the cure storyline and it lost its emotional impact to a certain degree. With so much going on, especially Magneto planning to destroy the lab and kill Cameron, there wasn't really time to muse on the political and social implications of the cure. It should have been done independently of the Dark Phoenix story, IMO. Each story is too big to be lumped in with another one. Doing the cure alone (with a minor villain involved to facilitate some action scenes) would allow for...

-More time to debate the ethics of the cure
-Beast to really struggle with his condition
-A new villain with better motivations to be introduced (although I'd definitely want Magneto around in some fashion - him getting cured could have been a great scene if it was given more time)
-A climax with more depth than "bad mutants who want to destroy the cure vs. good mutants who want to save it"

As for Rogue curing herself, I don't see what the hoopla's about. My only problem with it is that it just felt tacked on and unnecessary. Again, with more time they could have run with the Bobby-Kitty-Rogue love triangle and given a they could've gone any number of different directions with it.

Magneto's powers started to come back. Remember when the chess piece started to move on its own? That means that Rogue's powers would eventually return as well. .

That's not necessarily true. What exactly happened with Magneto is very much open to interpretation. I, and many others, took that last scene as a singular event - as if Magneto, and Magneto alone, was too powerful to be cured. Perhaps you're right and the cure was somehow flawed, but that really remains to be seen. I just doubt that they'd reverse all the curings of X3, as it would effectively make the movie pointless.