Your current opinion of Daniel Craig as James Bond

[Two-Face]

Haha

Bond: "They print anything these days"

 

[DACrowe]

Ah but Goldeneye and the much underrated TWINE are anything but bad though.

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Ah but Goldeneye and the much underrated TWINE are anything but bad though.

Is TWINE underrated? I recall it being very popular when released. The obvious problem with it is that, the boat chase aside, the action is terrible.

As for GoldenEye, everybody knows I hate it.

Tomorrow Never Dies is Brosnan's genuinely good Bond movie.

 

[James"007"Bond]

I think Craig is going to be awesome, and the film is going to be the best Bond movie for a long, long time.

It looks like EON suddenly woke up and said, "What the F*** have we been doing the last ten years when we've been supposed to be making Bond movies? Let's do it properly now."

I couldn't agree more.

 

[DACrowe]

Hm, I would call that a bad one myself. The newspaer scene ("They'll print anything these days") and the one where he kills the doctor in cold blood were very good, however the rest felt like an overblown '90s action movie with nothing else to it. I thought Goldeneye did a good job of reintroducing Bond to the modern day as a relic who does have to prove himself toa condescending world, however I know yhour view on that.

I like TWINE though because I think it is Brosnan's best performance as Bond (though I think GE is much better). He just seems so comfortable in it and does some pretty heartless **** in it but does so with such a swagger you don't mind. Then for him to fall in love (trying to play the Tracy story from a different angle) only to find out he was manipulated, just the end where he shoots Elektra King in cold blood makes it one of the best imo. But I do agree the action scenes were shot in a very standard meathod and the pacing on the ski scene and the warehouse (with the hliochopters) was too long winded.


DAD promised at its start to be a really good Bond movie. In fact all the scenes in N. Korea at the beginning and in Cuba reminded me of a mix between Brosnan and Connery (not a bad thing). Then soon as they hit London they take all the bad aspects of Roger Moore's Bond and throw in Halle Berry. Such a bad movie by end.



This looks good merely because it is based on CR to me right now. Eva Green is good looking and a fine actress and Campbell has done Bond right before, however the trailer looks very trashy to me. Well shot action, but still something is missing and the black and white scenes are cheesy and forced. As I said once before, Judi Dench as M did a much more intelligent and a more cleverly written repremanding of Bond in GE where their hate and respect was two-fold. In the scene in the trailer (mind you I have yet to see full context but I know what she is angry at him for) reminds me more of Sam Jackson in XXX than M and James Bond.



However, I'll try and keep optomistic. This has some things going for it and though the trailer shows him as a humorless thug, I hope Craig turns out to be a fantastic Bond in November. But he'll have a lot to prove because the buzz is very negative (which isn't very fair IMO as no one has seen his performance yet).

 

[Agentsands77]

I like TWINE though because I think it is Brosnan's best performance as Bond (though I think GE is much better). He just seems so comfortable in it and does some pretty heartless **** in it but does so with such a swagger you don't mind. Then for him to fall in love (trying to play the Tracy story from a different angle) only to find out he was manipulated, just the end where he shoots Elektra King in cold blood makes it one of the best imo. But I do agree the action scenes were shot in a very standard meathod and the pacing on the ski scene and the warehouse (with the hliochopters) was too long winded.

I think THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH is the worst Bond film of all time. Brosnan I especially can't stand in it - it's Bond at his most politically correct. Bond touching a tear on a computer screen just doesn't work. It's just not who Bond is. Brosnan also just goes crazy in the overacting (something Marceau does as well). The one scene where Bond confronts Elektra about Stockholm syndrome is something that belongs in a soap opera and features some of the most awful overacting I've ever seen.

And he doesn't really shoot Elektra in cold blood in the way he should have. That was a big mistake. He's doing everything he can to *not* kill her. As soon as Bond knew she was the villain, he should have become so cold and heartless that he'd shoot her without a second thought. Harry Knowles put it this way in his review of the film:

Both Sophie Marceau and Denise Richards friggin suck the big one in this movie. Sophie’s “I’m so ****able and adorable no man could kill me, I’m the most fabulous object in the universe and on top of that I’ll cut my right earlobe off, just so I have a zen-esque flaw to my perfect beauty” character just made me want to retch.

Sean Connery’s Bond would have ****ed her, and killed her the second he felt she turned.... and he never would have trusted her.

George Lazenby’s Bond would have ****ed her, and killed her by ripping out her throat while in the chair.

Roger Moore’s Bond would have ****ed her, noticed that the parachute dudes were never firing at her, then pushed her off the cliff.... while saying something like, “Bottoms up”

Timothy Dalton’s Bond would have slapped her silly, ****ed her and would have left her crying for more.

Where the hell did Bond develop this, sap? He ain’t no tree! This isn’t Diana Rigg, this is some self-important high society twit with a severe lack of fire and adventure... the two elements that Bond is most attracted to.


Furthermore, the love story between Elektra and Bond just isn't convincing to make it all work. It's too brief, and there's not enough to the character of Elektra to make us think she's really *that* appealing. Honestly.

Aside from that, it's just a pretty boring film. The action doesn't excite (aside from the excellent opening boat chase), there's no exoticism, there's no real thrust to the story, and it's just all really... bleh.

 

[Warhammer]

Craig will be great.
Hell, when this movie comes out, There might be a slight chance that i'll like him better than Brosnan.

To all you Craig-haters, Watch the movie be great and you'll like him after you see it.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

My gripe with Craig is that the dude is ugly.

Other than that....the guy might go down as the toughest Bond ever (which is kinda funny b/c the media is trying to make him look like a wuss). The moves he had looked brutal and hardcore. He looks like he can pull off that "cold hearted no **** hired gun" that many feel Bond has lacked.

I will always be a Brsonan-guy. But....Craig looks good. He's just ugly is all.....

 

[Agentsands77]

My gripe with Craig is that the dude is ugly.

Couldn't disagree more. I think he's quite handsome. I've said it before and I'll say it again - aside from Connery, Craig is the Bond I'd most want to look like.

 

[M.E.H.Z.E.B]

My gripe with Craig is that the dude is ugly.

If this isn't objective critisism... then i don't know what is...

 

[the gael]

Well, Connery is the Bond I'd most want to look like. As for Craig, I'd better stay myself. I'm far from being the most handsome guy on earth ( expecially compared to every other bond actors ), but I'm definitively much more handsome than him.

 

[M.E.H.Z.E.B]

Well, Connery is the Bond I'd most want to look like. As for Craig, I'd better stay myself. I'm far from being the most handsome guy on earth ( expecially compared to every other bond actors ), but I'm definitively much more handsome than him.

Connery was good. I liked Brosnan the best. Lazenby and Craig fall in the same catagory, and Dalton and Moore can share a space. Unless Craig pulls of a miraculous performance, I don't particularly see him leave a mark on the franchise.

 

[Eddie Dean]

Looks like he's doing a good job.

 

[M.E.H.Z.E.B]

Looks like he's doing a good job.

Looks... can be deceiving

 

[neemer5]

One thing Daniel Craig has going for him: he's an amazing actor.
But he really doesn't quite look the part to me, so it can really go either way at this point.

 

[DACrowe]

I honestly can't see how you would rank TWINE below (takes a deep breath) Moonraker, A View to a Kill, Octopussy, Diamonds Are Forever, You Only Live Twice, License to Kill, The Man With the Golden Gun, Tomorrow Never Dies, Thunderball (yes I said it, Thunderball was mediocre and boring, and I stand by that), and Die Another Day.

Woo.

I agree that his connection to her was made too quickly, however I felt that she was made to resemble Tracy. If he fell into love with Tracy so quickly, I could see him making that connection. And the scene you complain about Bond was pretty cold to her. He mocks her and she slaps him and he thinks nothing of it. He still calls her a rat to M and fakes his own death. I think Connery's Bond (I never use Dalton's Bond as a good refference like Harry Knowles, who I consider a moron anyway) would have shot in her in a n instant, but Brosnan's Bond is a lot more brooding. He is not emotional. Well he is under the exterior but he never presents it. He offers her a way out and she doesn't take it, he then shoots her in the throat without hesitation. Sure he then strokes her hair but it is no different than what he did to Paris in TND in what was the only good scene in that movie (he coldly kills the doctor after a no-pun mock and then says goodbye to her and moves on) same thing here.

I think his performance was strong. Marceau did not annoy me. She manipulated Bond and she manipulated Renyard. She only mocks Bond about how in control she is when he is strapped to a chair about to die. Then when he breaks free and knows for sure she is the villain he coldly kills her. There is emotion but a brooding acceptance more than a sorrow or regret. It is one of Brosnan's marks. He seems to resent his job in tretrospect in Goldeneye but still does it without regrets. This just takes it to a more personal level.

Besides if you don't like Bond feeling something for Elektra (though still being so even handed with her) what did you think of the end of OHMSS (which IMO is one of the best Bond movies) and even more, you could be disappointed with the ending to CR, which according to Stax the script really overplays moreso than the novel then.

 

[Agentsands77]

I honestly can't see how you would rank TWINE below (takes a deep breath) Moonraker, A View to a Kill, Octopussy, Diamonds Are Forever, You Only Live Twice, License to Kill, The Man With the Golden Gun, Tomorrow Never Dies, Thunderball (yes I said it, Thunderball was mediocre and boring, and I stand by that), and Die Another Day.

I think every one of those is vastly superior to TWINE, aside from perhaps A VIEW TO A KILL, which is a crap film, but still more entertaining than TWINE could hope to be.

I agree that his connection to her was made too quickly, however I felt that she was made to resemble Tracy. If he fell into love with Tracy so quickly, I could see him making that connection.

There's a question at *which* point in the film OHMSS Bond fell in love with Tracy at, and he knew her and spent a long time together with her. It wasn't suddenly a "one-night stand" and then he's all in love, as is the case in TWINE.

And how does she resemble Tracy at all? There's no real resemblance between Marceau's Elektra and Rigg's Tracy. Everything that made Tracy attractive is mostly absent in the character of Elektra (who's a pretty hollow, worthless character anyhow - when she's playing the "good girl" she's extremely uninteresting).

And the scene you complain about Bond was pretty cold to her. He mocks her and she slaps him and he thinks nothing of it. He still calls her a rat to M and fakes his own death.

Point being? He thinks plenty of it. Bond should *never* have confronted her. He would have waited in the shadows, made sure. That confrontation scene should have been cut. His conversation was M should have been the first time we were aware he was suspicious of Elektra.

Bond may be somewhat cold in that scene, but it's just melodramatic and overacted and soap opera-esque. Such heavy-handed, pretentious sap has no place in a Bond film, or *any* film for that matter.

I think Connery's Bond (I never use Dalton's Bond as a good refference like Harry Knowles, who I consider a moron anyway) would have shot in her in a n instant, but Brosnan's Bond is a lot more brooding.

Dalton's Bond was great for what he brought to the role. It wasn't in the same vein as previous Bonds, but he did a solid job. He's still better than Brosnan, even though he's not a favorite of mine.

He is not emotional. Well he is under the exterior but he never presents it.

Oh really? He touches a tear on a computer screen in TWINE. Brozzy's Bond is far and beyond the most open emotionally of the film Bonds.

He offers her a way out and she doesn't take it, he then shoots her in the throat without hesitation.

He does hesitate. He's so desperately trying not to have to kill her - just the way he screams "CALL IT OFF" (a second time I might add) and just looks so weakly at her, pleading with her. Sappy, sappy, sappy.

And he doesn't shoot her in the throat.

Sure he then strokes her hair but it is no different than what he did to Paris in TND in what was the only good scene in that movie (he coldly kills the doctor after a no-pun mock and then says goodbye to her and moves on) same thing here.

Paris hadn't betrayed him and wasn't the villain. Bond had no business stroking the body of a girl who'd tortured him and played him for a fool the whole time. He wouldn't have given her a second thought.

There is emotion but a brooding acceptance more than a sorrow or regret.

The stroking of her body definitely showcases regret.

Besides if you don't like Bond feeling something for Elektra (though still being so even handed with her) what did you think of the end of OHMSS (which IMO is one of the best Bond movies) and even more, you could be disappointed with the ending to CR, which according to Stax the script really overplays moreso than the novel then.

I've *read* the script to CASINO ROYALE and know how it plays it out. It's done really nicely and achieves a perfect balance that is true to the coldhearted core of who Bond is. I can't wait to see how Craig acts it out.

The end of OHMSS is the most emotional ending to any Bond movie, ever. Lazenby really gives an incredible performance in that moment. It's truly touching. But the thing is - the whole romance up until that point has been slowly built up and it's very true to Bond's character.

But this treatment of Bond and the relationship is only a *segment* of why I dislike TWINE. There's a host of other reasons as to why TWINE sucks.

 

[DACrowe]

Well this is all opinion, but I think we are both being civilized so I'll continue this a little further.

I certainly disagree in saying that TWINE is worse than Moonraker, Octopussy, The Man with the Golden Gun and Diamonds Are Forever (most definetly). However, I think Brosnan has had worse Bond movies. I thought the action was dreadfully boring and slow and worst of all completely pointless (which it is, but should not seem that way) in TND. And DAD started like a peppy mix of Brosnan (tortured and captured and out for revenge) and Connery (low tech gadgets if any, wit, real spying and tactics and a Cuban flair). But by the end of the movie with the electric suit, terrible fighting (and after Goldeneye one-on-ones were set a lot higher than that) and the terrible Halle Berry, I was in pain. I suppose I could see why you liked in that movie that when Bond found out that the Miranda Frost was a traitor he immeadietly tried to shoot her in the head without hesitation (though it was empty and he acted like a dope in that movie, much moreso than in TWINE).

As for Brosnan himself, I see that is part of our difference of opinion. In my opinion Brosnan is one of the best Bonds (though obviously no Connery). Each has their own thing, Connery being the perfect mix, but Moore had his camp, Lazenby was a poor man's Connery in a bad imitation (his end scene was great but otherwise he was a physical poor imitation), Dalton had "anger" and Brosnan is a more brooding and I don't want to say introspective but definetly contemplative Bond.

His Bond was cool and savue and had a quip for ever everything but was very agressively violent and always was ready to confront the enemy and ignite a situation (how much easier would it have been if he did not sex/fight Xenia at the spa, the thugs at the party in TND, not confront Elektra immeadietly, not make a fool of Graves in a swordfight on "first" encounter). Is it reckless? Yes it is, but Bond has been known to do that. In CR he does with his first few encounters with Le Cheffre(sp?) and of course the most notorious example being Goldfinger. First he makes a fool of Goldfinger and causes him to lose thousands at cards and gives away his voice. Than after this results in the death of Jill Masterson he still plays a game of golf with Goldfinger and deliberately embarsses him in his victory. This was both in Fleming's novel and the Connery film.

So I would not hold against Bond confronting Elektra, who he still thought was weak and the manipulated at this point (it was not until he was in the torture chair did he even realize that she was the real mastermind behind the whole thing). I'm merely pointing out even if you disliked Marceau's acting in the scene, it was not out of character for Bond to do something like that. And while I did not appreciate the tear, I do think Brosnan's Bond is a bit more emotional. Not that he displays it in front of other people. He never lets to see them bleed but his best moments are when he does, such as in Goldeneye when he confronts Trevelyan at the statue park or looks at the ocean and again in the killing of Paris. In TWINE I just tended to like it. While I agree that his care for her was rushed, his Bond seems to fit the description 006 gave him in GE (first saying his weakness was the women and again saying that he feels some sort of guilt for failing to protect them and hides in the arms of other willing women).

I'm not saying this is Fleming's Bond but I think it is probably the most interesting screen Bond so far and my second favorite. I never liked Dalton. Yes, he did bring a sense of naturalism to Bond but was very boring. His drole attitude relied too much on anger. Bond does have a chip on his shoulder and should not see eye to eye with his superiors often, however he should be able to do this through cynicism and hide this behind a cool exterior. Sometimes that exterior comes down but I think he should not allow people to see how he has a stick up his ass the whole time. Brosnan did this, but Dalton merely spoke all his lines through grited teeth and when in his first scene in a Bond film he has to growl through his mumbling voice "sit in the chair" to a fellow associate or pop a balloon in his his hands in full fledged anger, then it is just too forced.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree about TWINE but I feel Brosnan was an excellent Bond and I hold GE in high regard as one of the very best in the series and consider TWINE to be one of the decent installments in a franchise which has seen just as many duds as hits.

This is just all my opinion though.

 

[spdrknight]

Just by the trailer I would say that Craig could make a great bond. Yeah he is blonde, but hair color doesn't make the bond.

In the bond novels the character is not some pretty boy. James Bond is six foot tall, with blue-grey eyes with a hint of anger, a rather cruel mouth, and a lean body weighing around 165 pounds. To keep in shape Bond has been known to perform a morning routine of 20 slow press-ups, enough straight-leg lifts to make his stomach muscles scream, 20 toe touches and finally arm and chest exercises combined with deep breathing until he is dizzy. He has several visual distinguishing marks; a scar down the right cheek and on the left shoulder and signs of plastic surgery on back of his right hand. Bond has also been said to be just a blunt weapon for the British government to use.

^^Generally that is how his appearance is described. Craig seems to fit the bill on that account. From the trailer Crag also appears to be able to handle action well. I think he will be a great bond.

Below is a picture of Bond, based on the Flemming novels and done FOR the author when he was still writing the stories. Beside is Craig, he seems visually to be a pretty good match, minos the blonde hair (which I don't mind too much).

 

[Agentsands77]

However, I think Brosnan has had worse Bond movies. I thought the action was dreadfully boring and slow and worst of all completely pointless (which it is, but should not seem that way) in TND.

Nah, we had a terrifically thrilling pre-title sequence, a fantastic car chase, and a great bike chase, among other moments. At least it was fulfilling what it set out to be - an entertaining, but ultimately mindless, action film.

If you want pointless and boring action that doesn't serve the story, look no further than TWINE. We got *two* appalling sequences that slowed the story down and should have been completely removed (the ski scene and the caviar factory bit). Both were incredibly sloppy, uninteresting, and ultimately fast-forward worthy.

And DAD started like a peppy mix of Brosnan (tortured and captured and out for revenge) and Connery (low tech gadgets if any, wit, real spying and tactics and a Cuban flair). But by the end of the movie with the electric suit, terrible fighting (and after Goldeneye one-on-ones were set a lot higher than that) and the terrible Halle Berry, I was in pain. I suppose I could see why you liked in that movie that when Bond found out that the Miranda Frost was a traitor he immeadietly tried to shoot her in the head without hesitation (though it was empty and he acted like a dope in that movie, much moreso than in TWINE).

I don't think DIE ANOTHER DAY is a great movie, but I do think it's just more selflessly entertaining with a vivacious energy than the heavy-handed and drab THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH. It has its own issues with the Bond characterization, but they're nowhere near as glaring as they are in THE WORLD IS NOT ENOUGH, which serves as a showcase for all the things the Brosnan Bond did wrong - just emphasized more.

Each has their own thing, Connery being the perfect mix, but Moore had his camp, Lazenby was a poor man's Connery in a bad imitation (his end scene was great but otherwise he was a physical poor imitation), Dalton had "anger" and Brosnan is a more brooding and I don't want to say introspective but definetly contemplative Bond.

I generally agree... but I would never say Lazenby was a poor man's Connery (his characterization was *extremely* different from Connery), and I would characterize Brosnan's Bond as more of a female fantasy figure than a male one. It's the feminization of James Bond.

So I would not hold against Bond confronting Elektra, who he still thought was weak and the manipulated at this point (it was not until he was in the torture chair did he even realize that she was the real mastermind behind the whole thing).

In a situation where he still had substantial doubt, there was no reason to confront her right then.

I'm merely pointing out even if you disliked Marceau's acting in the scene, it was not out of character for Bond to do something like that.

Maybe not necessarily confront, but confront in that manner, yes, very much so.

Not that he displays it in front of other people. He never lets to see them bleed but his best moments are when he does, such as in Goldeneye when he confronts Trevelyan at the statue park or looks at the ocean and again in the killing of Paris.

Oh come now - also in his sappy, pretentious confrontations with M throughout the series (notably in DIE ANOTHER DAY), in his many love scenes he's the "sensitive" lover, not the incredibly macho one, and all that jazz.

For example, TOMORROW NEVER DIES - his conversation with Paris. Bond would *never* have started it with such soap opera-ish dreck as "I always wondered how I'd feel if I ever saw you again." Blech.

In TWINE I just tended to like it. While I agree that his care for her was rushed, his Bond seems to fit the description 006 gave him in GE (first saying his weakness was the women and again saying that he feels some sort of guilt for failing to protect them and hides in the arms of other willing women).

I hate that line in GOLDENEYE (I think the dialogue in GOLDENEYE is awful altogether, horribly self-referential and heavy-handed... it's like Bond written by Oscar Wilde). Bond has sex because he wants sex.

I'm not saying this is Fleming's Bond but I think it is probably the most interesting screen Bond so far and my second favorite.

If Brosnan's Bond had been given character while maintaining the intense masculinity and macho-ness of the character, it would work for me. See THE TAILOR OF PANAMA for a Brosnan performance that, in many ways, his Bond portrayal should have been closer to.

I personally think Brosnan would have been more suited to shallow, Moore-like Bond with just a touch of deadliness. Drop out any of the "peel back the layers of the character" stuff, and just make him the simple, flat, but fun character he always was. It would have been so much more fun to watch.

Brosnan did this, but Dalton merely spoke all his lines through grited teeth and when in his first scene in a Bond film he has to growl through his mumbling voice "sit in the chair" to a fellow associate or pop a balloon in his his hands in full fledged anger, then it is just too forced.

Oh, the balloon scene was great. Dalton has issues with his performance, but that moment was wonderful and full of determination. Great stuff.

 

[Agentsands77]

Below is a picture of Bond, based on the Flemming novels and done FOR the author when he was still writing the stories. Beside is Craig, he seems visually to be a pretty good match, minos the blonde hair (which I don't mind too much).

http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/4873/380pxfleming007impression2mk.jpg http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/7509/007danielcraig5pe.jpg

I don't see a lot of Craig in that image, but I do see a ton of Craig in McLusky's image of Bond from the Daily Mail comic strip:

 

[M.E.H.Z.E.B]

This thread is finally being rightfully used. Thanks for your contributions DACrowe, and Agentsands77

 

[DACrowe]

I tend to see our disagreement stems from Brosnan. I enjoy Brosnan's performance. He has a bit of playfullness and camp but when he is actually killing he is cold and silently dark and his humor while in mid-mission is always dark and cynical. It works. I think the big disagreement is his treatment toward women. I do agree he is too loving to the women in TND (again I point to it as being the consistantly most boring and lowest point of his Bond films) and to Denise Richards in TWINE but he definetly was having some rough fun with the women in GE and his treatment in DAD sounds like your preference (I felt the movie would have been infintely better if someone else played Jinx and someone like Campbell had directed). For the record I enjoyed the invisible car if that was the only nod to Moore besides the sword fight it would have been fine. But now I'm just rambling about how poor a job Tahmori did.

Anyway, I appreciate a different approach and I enjoyed Goldeneye's script self-reference. At least when it came between 007 and 006 because who else would know how to mock Bond and his past than a fellow agent (Robbie Coltrane, one of the best parts of TWINE, was just for fun). And I stand by that the M interaction with Bond in GE has been their best backk-and-forth we have seen since OHMSS.

I thought his disrespect to her and her to him was done in a much more clever and intelligent way than how the preview shows in the new one of her just bluntly saying "Your a thug and will die soon" (I know those aren't her exact words I'm paraphrasing the conversation shown, at least in the teaser's context).

I just see that we disagree about Brosnan. I felt that in TND his treatment of the Bond girls was far too respectful (though his execution of the German doctor who assissnated Paris is one of Brosnan's best scenes in the films) he had a right balance in most of the other movies showing his share of disrespect and charm towards them. I felt the Elektra relationship was a bit rushed but worked because she at first had an adventure and while I don't think he loved her, he definetly made a connection with her. He could not act on it until he was out of the chair though. In that moment he gave her a way out and she did not take it and he shot her without a wince (I take the hair rubbing as less regret and more a bit of remorse before bottling it up not to show again, as Bond should do instead of wearing it on his sleeve like Dalton).

But I guess it is out of preference, as I consider Brosnan the best Bond since Connery and you obviously do not. I guess we can both say we at least enjoyed watching Bond shoot Elektra (though I thought it was in the throat? Granted I haven't seen it in a year or two, maybe it was high in the chest). And for the record Dalton was much more romantic to his Bond girls than Brosnan. This was because it was during the femnist movement at its height in the '80s and the AIDs epidemic but he ignored a lot of free sex and was definetly more caring of his women. Brosnan used them but used romance to bed them, however Elektra is the only one he showed any real compassion for. Dalton treated them as loving partners and felt bad for cheating on Pam with Talia Soto. I would imagine you'd be more annoyed by that. And if you want to talk of cheesy romance, look no further than Bond in the farris wheel with the celloist then.

 

[DACrowe]

P.S. And yes I saw Tailor of Panama btw. It is quite good and probably Brosnan's best performance after The Matador. It shows me he could have played a darker and more grounded in reality Bond, but alas they didn't let him. However, his overall performance in that was a little too....evil, to be the basis of Bond, really.

 

[Agentsands77]

Anyway, I appreciate a different approach and I enjoyed Goldeneye's script self-reference. At least when it came between 007 and 006 because who else would know how to mock Bond and his past than a fellow agent (Robbie Coltrane, one of the best parts of TWINE, was just for fun). And I stand by that the M interaction with Bond in GE has been their best backk-and-forth we have seen since OHMSS.

I think it's cringeworthy. Especially the M stuff, which is just really pretentious (though Dench's M reached a whole new low with TWINE... *that* is the epitome of pretentious, melodramatic junk). If I have one problem with CASINO ROYALE, it's that Judi Dench's M is retained.

I felt like GOLDENEYE was almost apologizing for Bond being Bond. Nevermind the fact that none of the dialogue was believable... "I might as well whether all those vodka martinis silence the screams of all the men you’ve killed, or whether you find forgiveness in the arms of all those willing women for the ones you failed to protect." Who talks that like that?! Ugh. And then there's that awful scene on the beach: "It's what keeps me alive." "No, it's what keeps you alone." First off, that's just not Bondian speak. Secondly, it feels like it came out of a soap opera.

I'm all for character in Bond, but I don't want it so melodramatic and soap opera-esque. Play it believably and subtlely, don't bang me over the head with it. OHMSS was the perfect example of how to do drama and Bond together.

I thought his disrespect to her and her to him was done in a much more clever and intelligent way than how the preview shows in the new one of her just bluntly saying "Your a thug and will die soon" (I know those aren't her exact words I'm paraphrasing the conversation shown, at least in the teaser's context).

The dialogue in the teaser, for what it's worth, doesn't occur in that order and the lines are taken wildly out of context. I'm not a fan of the dialogue in that scene (it's the one scene I'd rewrite in the script), but at least it works better than that rather poor conversation in GOLDENEYE.

And she doesn't call Bond a thug - she says he's more than that and should act like it. Here's the relative order of the quotes (it's a fairly long scene, and these are only snippets):

[Some opening dialogue... a good deal of it]

M: I knew it was too early to promote you.

BOND: Well I understand Double-Os have a very short life expectancy, so one can hope your mistake isn't long-lived.

[Lots more dialogue]

M: Bond, this may be too much for a blunt instrument to understand, but arrogance and self-awareness seldom go hand-in-hand.

BOND: You want me to be half monk, half hitman?

M: Any thug can kill. I need you to take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately. I have to know I can trust you, and that you know who to trust.

But I guess it is out of preference, as I consider Brosnan the best Bond since Connery and you obviously do not.

I think he's the worst Bond of them all. Yes, I think even Lazenby is superior. By a wide margin. My actual ranking is:

1. Sean Connery
2. Roger Moore
3. George Lazenby
4. Timothy Dalton
5. Pierce Brosnan

We'll see where Craig fits in on November 17th.

I guess we can both say we at least enjoyed watching Bond shoot Elektra (though I thought it was in the throat? Granted I haven't seen it in a year or two, maybe it was high in the chest).

I didn't like how the scene was handled (as explained earlier), so no, I can't say I enjoyed that scene. I hate that "I never miss" line - nothing like a stupid quip to ruin a dramatic scene.

And for the record Dalton was much more romantic to his Bond girls than Brosnan.

I know. It's one of my biggest problems with his portrayal - I do feel that other moments in his portrayal make up for it, though. But Dalton's relationships are *incredibly* sappy and cornball and out of place.

Brosnan used them but used romance to bed them, however Elektra is the only one he showed any real compassion for.

Nah, he showed compassion to Natalya pretty strongly (though I have *no* qualms with the Natalya relationship, as well as Paris (who he supposedly truly loved - I have issues with the Paris relationship, but it's such a small segment of the film, I just kind of shrug about it).

I may have hated Berry's Jinx, but what was refreshing about that relationship is that it was a "no strings attached" relationship. Nothing meaningful - just the gratification that marks the Bond character.

P.S. And yes I saw Tailor of Panama btw. It is quite good and probably Brosnan's best performance after The Matador. It shows me he could have played a darker and more grounded in reality Bond, but alas they didn't let him. However, his overall performance in that was a little too....evil, to be the basis of Bond, really.

Yeah... well I didn't want his Bond to exactly copy THE TAILOR OF PANAMA, because Bond is a different character, but I would have liked that darker style to accompany him. If they didn't do that direction, I would have preferred his performance to be in the style of THE THOMAS CROWN AFFAIR.

I thought Brosnan was far cooler and more impressive in both of those films than he ever was as Bond. He just never seemed comfortable in the role (and has admitted as much - he never felt like he belonged as 007, and it shows).