The Dark Knight Rises 6 Minutes of TDKR footage attached to Mission Impossible 4! - - - - Part 13

[Doctor Jones]

Hey, guess what. Transformers 2 was probably a harder film to make then any of the Godfather flicks put together. And there was a lot of talent that went into making that movie.

It takes ****ing TALENT to make those effects, to shoot that ****.

Is the script and story good? No. Not in any way shape or form.

Actually what Bay did with the TF films incredible. Unlike Nolan, who had 70 years of great Batman comics and material to work with, what the hell did Bay have to work from? Toys based off a crappy 80's tv show that is nowhere near as good as people say. Seriously, I watched on part of an episode and it was awful. It looks like the love comes from nostalgia. People complain Bay ruined that? I say he improved it.

Nolan took on something that was already up there, in terms of source material that was so high, and made something great out of it, in some parts better. But he drew from that great material already. Bay only had 80's toys and it skyrocketed.

Transformers was nothing more than a geek 80's toy thing. He took that and made it accessible and it made millions and now it's become apart of our pop culture. That is quite the feat to do that. Any film that can do that is incredible. For that, Bay is a great director.

 

[Citadel30]

Well, its not a shocking development that some folks on here are a bit snobby when it comes to their movie preferences. but thats ok. different strokes for different folks.

and you know what??? i LOVE coming here for all of the opinionated responses... thats what makes the Bat-boards the best.

 

[Citadel30]

Actually whay Bay did with the TF films incredible. Unlike Nolan, who had 70 years of great Batman comics and material to work with, what the hell did Bay have to work from? Toys based off a crappy 80's tv show that is nowhere near as good as people say. Seriously, I watched on part of an episode and it was awful. People complain Bay ruined that? I say he improved it.

Transformers was nothing more than a geek 80's toy thing. He took that and made it accessible and it made millions. That is quite the feat to do that. Any film that can do that is incredible. For that, Bay is a great director.

I never have a problem shelling out 12.00 for a Bay movie. they are ALWAYS entertaining... in some form or another.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Nolan likes Michael Bay. Arguments are invalid.

Yes.

And I will keep bringing this up.

There are people who works thousands of hours to make these films happen. I doubt on Transformers Bay just said, "**** this. I'm gonna half ass it and hope for the best." You don't half ass something and get action sequences like that.

 

[SE7EN]

Actually whay Bay did with the TF films incredible. Unlike Nolan, who had 70 years of great Batman comics and material to work with, what the hell did Bay have to work from? Toys based off a crappy 80's tv show that is nowhere near as good as people say. Seriously, I watched on part of an episode and it was awful. People complain Bay ruined that? I say he improved it.

Transformers was nothing more than a geek 80's toy thing. He took that and made it accessible and it made millions. That is quite the feat to do that. Any film that can do that is incredible. For that, Bay is a great director.

Doesn't change the fact that even from a story outline pov, the 2nd one severely sucks. The first half sets up what could have been a very good story, but the short cuts and the abysmal climax destroys it. It should have ended after optimus bit the dust. Alas, a very subpar and generic ending...

What was that about batman? Lol

 

[Yurka]

^ That's what he was saying. I think.

It's just funny that people here on a BATMAN board are acting like they're the highest class of cinemaphiles.

It's just so silly.

Hang on. Your list of best movies of the year has movies even you know aren't great on it (TF 3"Sue me" Drive Angry "Damn Right"), but it's the Batman boards that are acting like the "highest class of cinemaphiles" when certain ones call you on certain choices?
That's silly.

A bad movie is generally a bad movie regardless, theres no subjectivity to it. I enjoyed TF3, as well as the other 2, but I accept them for what they are. Entertaining =/= A good movie.

Actually what Bay did with the TF films incredible. Unlike Nolan, who had 70 years of great Batman comics and material to work with, what the hell did Bay have to work from? Toys based off a crappy 80's tv show that is nowhere near as good as people say. Seriously, I watched on part of an episode and it was awful. It looks like the love comes from nostalgia. People complain Bay ruined that? I say he improved it.

Nolan took on something that was already up there, in terms of source material that was so high, and made something great out of it, in some parts better. But he drew from that great material already. Bay only had 80's toys and it skyrocketed.

Transformers was nothing more than a geek 80's toy thing. He took that and made it accessible and it made millions and now it's become apart of our pop culture. That is quite the feat to do that. Any film that can do that is incredible. For that, Bay is a great director.

As someone who grew up watching Transformers, reading the comics, and playing with the toys, this entire post is insulting and frankly, wrong. The only thing Bay did was take a popular franchise with a large fan-base and reintroduce it to the masses. Any number of directors could have done a similar job.

 

[Spideyfan93]

People just love to hate the Transformers films.

And yes, people put their heart and soul into making those action scenes possible. But some just can't grasp that.

They are pure entertainment at it's best and that is why they are all successful financially. It is a fun escape from reality. Nothing wrong with that...Bay is great at what he does.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Doesn't change the fact that even from a story outline pov, the 2nd one severely sucks. The first half sets up what could have been a very good story, but the short cuts and the abysmal climax destroys it. It should have ended after optimus bit the dust. Alas, a very subpar and generic ending...

What was that about batman? Lol

That was your first mistake. Switch that to opinion and I'm pretty much done.

Hang on. Your list of best movies of the year has movies even you know aren't great on it (TF 3"Sue me" Drive Angry "Damn Right"), but it's the Batman boards that are acting like the "highest class of cinemaphiles" when certain ones call you on certain choices?
That's silly.

A bad movie is generally a bad movie regardless, theres no subjectivity to it. I enjoyed TF3, as well as the other 2, but I accept them for what they are. Entertaining =/= A good movie.



As someone who grew up watching Transformers, reading the comics, and playing with the toys, this entire post is insulting and frankly, wrong. The only thing Bay did was take a popular franchise with a large fan-base and reintroduce it to the masses. Any number of directors could have done a similar job.

No, a bad movie is subjective. Just like a good movie is subjective. Does winning Best Picture make it an objectively great film? No. People just happened to have the same opinion and like the film. Even if one admits to it not being great and still enjoying it, which I've done. It's still opinion. BF is a guilty pleasure to me. I enjoy it but there are a lot of flaws. But guess what? That's still my opnion.

I'm insulted that you said I was wrong for giving my opinion. Please prove to me how I'm wrong.

 

[Yurka]

No, a bad movie is subjective. Just like a good movie is subjective. Does winning Best Picture make it an objectively great film? No. People just happened to have the same opinion and like the film. Even if one admits to it not being great and still enjoying it, which I've done. It's still opinion. BF is a guily pleasure to me. I enjoy it but there are a lot of flaws. But guess what? That's still my opnion.

But an audience can generally differentiate a good film say, Shawshank Redemption, from a bad film, say Battlefield Earth. I agree film is usually subjective but certain films get to a point where the opinion becomes almost unanimous.

I'm insulted that you said I was wrong for giving my opinion. Please prove to me how I'm wrong.

From someone who admittedly didn't follow the series from early on, your first main exposure to the franchise was Bay's films. You said you watched one part of an episode, if you would have watched more you would have seen there was some impressive and groundbreaking episodes over the course of the series. So to generalize an entire series over a "part of an episode" is wrong. Certain source material for TF was highly regarded as well, each franchise had their fanbases so I wouldn't necessarily say Nolan had it "easier" with Batman. Bay had the 80's cartoon, comics, and toys, for which there was a large fan-base as well.

I'm not bashing Bay, I like alot of what he did, (I'm a big fan of TF1) but he wasn't the only director that could have made TF popular to the masses. The fan base was there long before he was ever attached.

 

[Sharkboy]

I love michael bay films, I enjoyed transformers 3, Bad boys 2 is one of my favourite guilty pleasures. I still stand by the fact that anyone saying transformers 2 is better than a film like the godfather, is dead wrong. Everyone has an opinion...doesn't mean everyone is right. There are just some things that need to stick.

Rag was right, people are just too nice and unafraid to step on toes sometimes, opinion or not, sometimes people are just plain wrong.

EDIT: oh and i wouldn't be on the TDK forums, if i honestly didn't think these nolan bat-films were worthy to be mentioned alongside classics like jaws, raiders, empire, back to the future, blade runner, alien etc etc.

To me TDK is right up there with them, that is admittedly an opinion, but obviously it's one that is shared by so many people, I have a hard time finding anything legit to despute it.

 

[Doctor Jones]

But an audience can generally differentiate a good film say, Shawshank Redemption, from a bad film, say Battlefield Earth. I agree film is usually subjective but certain films get to a point where the opinion because almost unanimous.



From someone who admittedly didn't follow the series from early on, your first main exposure to the franchise was Bay's films. You said you watched one part of an episode, if you would have watched more you would have seen there was some impressive and groundbreaking episodes over the course of the series. So to generalize an entire series over a "part of an episode" is wrong. Certain source material for TF was highly regarded as well, each franchise had their fanbases so I wouldn't necessarily say Nolan had it "easier" with Batman. Bay had the 80's cartoon, comics, and toys, for which there was a large fan-base as well.

I'm not bashing Bay, I like alot of what he did, (I'm a big fan of TF1) but he wasn't the only director that could have made TF popular to the masses. The fan base was there long before he was ever attached.

Yes, it can become unanimous, but that doesn't make it a fact at all.

I watched Beast Wars and the following series and collected the toy line as a child and a while later, watched the next cartoon series in the early 00's. Yes I watched part of an 80's episode, but from what I saw, it didn't impress me. I would be willing to give it a chance of course, but from what I have seen and in my opinion, Bay elevated the franchise to a much higher level.

I love michael bay films, I enjoyed transformers 3, Bad boys 2 is one of my favourite guilty pleasures. I still stand by the fact that anyone saying transformers 2 is better than a film like the godfather, is dead wrong. Everyone has an opinion...doesn't mean everyone is right. There are just some things that need to stick.

Rag was right, people are just too nice and unafraid to step on toes sometimes, opinion or not, sometimes people are just plain wrong.

Wait, so by your logic, someone is wrong for enjoying and liking a film because it's deemed bad by the majority or just deemed bad. Oh, yes, perfectly sensible and respectful. I see. I guess I'm of lesser intelligence because I think The Third Man is boring and a bad film. Oh, silly me. I must be wrong. And anyone who disagrees must be right.

It's not about being unafraid. It's about respecting one's opinion no matter how baffling it may be. Yes, I know it may be strange and baffling that how they could think this certain film is good, but guess what, they have an opinion and they deserve to have it respected as much as you and I. It is not wrong. Those who think that are being snobs about it. If you think you're right because you think you know what makes a better film because they like a film that's "bad" then that is pretentiousness.

Again, prove to me how someone can be wrong in their opinion. You do know what a fact is? A fact is verifiable, proven, and experimented scientifically. Where is it proven that Transformers 2 is an objectively bad film? Where is the fact like the sky is blue or that the sun is hot?

Prove that a movie fits this criteria. Give me a scientific formula that says x movie is better than y movie.

 

[batman1115]

People just love to hate the Transformers films.

And yes, people put their heart and soul into making those action scenes possible. But some just can't grasp that.

They are pure entertainment at it's best and that is why they are all successful financially. It is a fun escape from reality. Nothing wrong with that...Bay is great at what he does.

when film just becomes entertainment, then its forgettable. film should mean something. no matter how trivial the movie is. transformers is just noise and effects.

 

[Sharkboy]

Wait, so by your logic, someone is wrong for enjoying and liking a film because it's deemed bad by the majority or just deemed bad. Oh, yes, perfectly sensible and respectful. I see. I guess I'm of lesser intelligence because I think The Third Man is boring and a bad film. Oh, silly me. I must be wrong. And anyone who disagrees must be right.

It's not about being unafraid. It's about respecting one's opinion no matter how baffling it may be. Yes, I know it may be strange and baffling that how they could think this certain film is good, but guess what, they have an opinion and they deserve to have it respected as much as you and I. It is not wrong. Those who think that are being snobs about it. If you think you're right because you think you know what makes a better film because they like a film that's "bad" then that is pretentiousness.

Again, prove to me how someone can be wrong in their opinion. You do know what a fact is? A fact is verifiable, proven, and experimented. Where is it proven that Transformers 2 is an objectively bad film? Where it a fact that says like the sky is blue or that the sun is hot?

Prove that a movie fits this criteria.

I think you are taking this too personally. This is nothing about intelligence, or who's better than who. I'm also not talking about certain cases like the Third Man (which in my opinion is a fantastic film, but tons of people could easily find it slow or pointless) I'm talking of extremes here, there is a certain point where you need to draw the line, I couldn't in any form or fashion ever call someone who says "conan the barbarian (2011 version) was a much better film than Ridley Scott's Alien" or "troll 2 is a better film than citizen kane" yes, people who really think that have the right to do so, and it is their opinion; but do i think that opinion is right? There are criteria that constitutes a good film, good writing, plot, acting, cinematography, music...the elements are plenty, you can always nitpick the best things just as much as you can always find entertainment in the worse things with the right state of mind...doesn't change the fact that there are good films and bad films. Seriously i shouldn't even be wasting my time, explaining this...this is a given. I certainly don't attack CelticPredator for liking the films on his list, there are his favourite films of the year, and that perfectly fine because it's his list. But if anyone were to list these films as the top films of 2011 (which he didn't do), i would have no qualms in saying that person is wrong.

 

[Citadel30]

when film just becomes entertainment, then its forgettable. film should mean something. no matter how trivial the movie is. transformers is just noise and effects.

Ummm... an entertaining film does mean something... its ENTERTAINING. If a movie brings me 2-3 hours of enjoyment from the normal daily grind of my office job - then that film did its job. Personally, i don't need to look at every single movie as an inspiration for life and then sit back and reflect on that movie. I see two huge robots fighting and i think its pretty cool. Thats it... mission accomplished in my mind of thats movies purpose.

 

[Doctor Jones]

Mission: Impossible Ghost Protocal was pure entertainment. I won't be forgetting that anytime soon. Hugo I won't be remembering much.

There is nothing wrong with entertainment. You can get just as much out of the simple entertainment of something than any thought provoking film. It's about what you feel and that fulfillment. Say, Pixar animated ball bouncing down a street in ways can mean just as much as anything else. As long as it's executed right it can work.

 

[Doctor Jones]

I think you are taking this too personally. This is nothing about intelligence, or who's better than who. I'm also not talking about certain cases like the Third Man (which in my opinion is a fantastic film, but tons of people could easily find it slow or pointless) I'm talking of extremes here, there is a certain point where you need to draw the line, I couldn't in any form or fashion ever call someone who says "conan the barbarian (2011 version) was a much better film than Ridley Scott's Alien" or "troll 2 is a better film than citizen kane" yes, people who really think that have the right to do so, and it is their opinion; but do i think that opinion is right? There are criteria that constitutes a good film, good writing, plot, acting, cinematography, music...the elements are plenty, you can always nitpick the best things just as much as you can always find entertainment in the worse things with the right state of mind...doesn't change the fact that there are good films and bad films. Seriously i shouldn't even be wasting my time, explaining this...this is a given. I certainly don't attack CelticPredator for liking the films on his list, there are his favourite films of the year, and that perfectly fine because it's his list. But if anyone were to list these films as the top films of 2011 (which he didn't do), i would have no qualms in saying that person is wrong.

Yes, and that's because it's executed well and it's shared by many people in agreeing that it's great filmmaking. But that still doesn't make it a fact.

There are good films and bad films. But that is up to the viewer. It's about what each individual gets out of a film. Watch Ed Wood. You've seen that right? Everybody thought he was making ****, but he thought he was making the greatest films in the world.

I have a good friend in the film program who loves all the POTC films. I disagree with him on a lot of the things, mentioning how the third is too convulted and confusing. He disagress and thinks it's a great idea that it's filled with that much stuff and likes it. He likes SM3 as well. That doesn't mean he's wrong. That doesn't make him in danger as a future filmmaker because he likes these things. But just because it doesn't fit your idea or the majority's idea of what a good movie is, doesn't mean it's a bad film.

It's like me trying to prove how I'm right. I'm not.

You can't draw the line. You must accept that everyone, no matter how baffling it may be, may think a great film is a great film. What is wrong with that? Good Lord man, is it so hard to think of the possbility that someone does indeed think that Conan is a better film than Alien? If a majority of people can like a film, than a small minoirty can dislike it. Let them watch their film and love it and bask in its greatness. Even if it's Transformers 2. There is no line to draw. I'll watch The Godfather right after TF2 and get just as much out of them.

 

[SuperSoldier985]

totally agree, this movie season was pathetic

Oh really?

What's on your top 20 list of the year?

 

[Sharkboy]

Yes, and that's because it's executed well and it's shared by many people in agreeing that it's great filmmaking. But that still doesn't make it a fact.

There are good films and bad films. But that is up to the viewer. It's about what each individual gets out of a film. Watch Ed Wood. You've seen that right? Everybody thought he was making ****, but he thought he was making the greatest films in the world.

I have a good friend in the film program who loves all the POTC films. I disagree with him on a lot of the things, mentioning how the third is too convulted and confusing. He disagress and thinks it's a great idea that it's filled with that much stuff and likes it. He likes SM3 as well. That doesn't mean he's wrong. That doesn't make him in danger as a future filmmaker because he likes these things. But just because it doesn't fit your idea or the majority's idea of what a good movie is, doesn't mean it's a bad film.

It's like me trying to prove how I'm right. I'm not.

You can't draw the line. You must accept that everyone, no matter how baffling it may be, may think a great film is a great film. What is wrong with that? Good Lord man, is it so hard to think of the possbility that someone does indeed think that Conan is a better film than Alien? If a majority of people can like a film, than a small minoirty can dislike it. Let them watch their film and love it and bask in its greatness. Even if it's Transformers 2. There is no line to draw. I'll watch The Godfather right after TF2 and get just as much out of them.

You are taking this way to personally and out of proportion. I don't have a problem with people who think that way, I just consider them to be wrong, that's all, and (if that word bothers you, then maybe this one will bother you less) severely lacking in taste.... If i come across someone in my life that would ever tell me that films like godfather, Alien, raging bull, raiders of the lost ark are horrible films they are wrong. It's simple to me, black and white...it might not be "correct" in your eyes, but I draw the line somewhere.

You won't ever change me on this, so maybe it's best we just agree to disagree on this point.

 

[Doctor Jones]

You are taking this way to personally and out of proportion. I don't have a problem with people who think that way, I just consider them to be wrong, that's all, and (if that word bothers you, then maybe this one will bother you less) severely lacking in taste.... If i come across someone in my life that would ever tell me that films like godfather, Alien, raging bull, raiders of the lost ark are horrible films they are wrong. It's simple to me, black and white...it might not be "correct" in your eyes, but I draw the line somewhere.

You won't ever change me on this, so maybe it's best we just agree to disagree on this point.

I didn't mean it to come off as personal, and I may have given, I've had heated debates with another film major about it and I think he has a bad attitude, especially for wanting to be a director.

I feel bad for you man. In movies, no opinion is ever wrong. You may disagree of course, but they are never wrong. You have to prove they are wrong and nobody can ever prove it. You need facts to back that up. And there are none. Unless you can give them to me, I will change my mind and say you are right. You must understand when you call out someone being wrong, they must have facts to back up why they are wrong. When it comes to movies, there aren't any.

But you still haven't answered me man. You still haven't proved to me why someone would be wrong for liking a "bad" film like TF2.

 

[EliteF50]

So back to TDKR, and more specifically, the prologue.

Did anyone else feel like the edit must have been rushed? I mean, there were some weird mistakes in there that I doubt Smith or Nolan would have normally done.

My biggest complaint would be the shot they added after Bane says "Crashing this plane". The first one where the men are rappelling down is fine, but the second shot of the plane's exterior (wing mounted) was really out-of-place and overly long. Besides, does that mean Bane stood there staring at the CIA Agent for the whole time in between "Crashing this plane... with no survivors"?

Another issue I feel should be addressed is the strange double explosion when Bane's men blow out the back of the smaller plane. They should start with the interior shot and cut to the exterior, imo. Not replay it.

And lastly, when Bane says "With no survivors", they cut to a shot of the CIA agent's men being shot from the side. However, when they cut to the exterior of the plane, Bane's men are just landing on the side and getting ready to shoot.

Any thoughts?

 

[Sawyer]

In movies, no opinion is ever wrong.

For the most part, I agree with this.

However, if anyone this year liked Jack and Jill or Bucky Larson, not only would I say that they're dead wrong, but I'd also be highly tempted to jump kick them into a comically over-sized blender.

 

[Doctor Jones]

For the most part, I agree with this.

However, if anyone this year liked Jack and Jill or Bucky Larson, not only would I say that they're dead wrong, but I'd also be highly tempted to jump kick them into a comically over-sized blender.

Jack and Jill is a cinematic masterpiece. Al Pacino is in it. So that means it's good.

 

[Sawyer]

Jack and Jill is a cinematic masterpiece. Al Pacino is in it. So that means it's good.

You're pushing your luck, sir. My giant blender is getting hungry.

 

[paladinryan]

Let's forget about the aesthetics of Bay's movies and just look at their ethics: they're incredibly degrading films to both women and minorities. TF2 was a shocking indulgence in misogyny and exploitation. Nolan's handling of female characters is enough to set him miles above Bay, not just in terms of filmmaking, but simply as a human being. That may sound extreme, but I truly believe that Bay's Transformer films (especially #2) are poisonous, and I would not want my children watching them (if I'm ever blessed with children).

Not to mention that Bay has a terrible sense of humor, and Nolan and his brother are VERY underappreciated in that realm.

 

[SuperSoldier985]

Pfft...saying anything is "wrong", whether opinion or fact is pretty moot.

There are a variety of tangible elements to a movie that are used to qualitatively measure its merit.