7.07 - Wrath - Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

[Eddie Brock]

that was a great movie.

Fixed.

You can't discriminate. Every scene from that movie was great.

As big a Spider-Man fan as I am (as you can see from my username), Batman Begins was better than any of the Spider-Man films. It just barely eeks by the first one, in my book.

 

[COMPO]

the second one is going to be amazing. lol

 

[Prison Mike]

yeah, as a whole the movie was great. There were a few lines here and there where I rolled my eyes, but in general the movie was fantastic. I'm a huge Spider-Man fan as well (much more so than Superman) and I do agree that BB was far better than any of the Spider-Man films combined. Of the three though, my favorite Spider-Man film would be the second one. And I absolutely can not wait for TDK.

 

[COMPO]

"some people just want to watch the world burn". lol

 

[Prison Mike]

^Is that said by Alfred in the TDK teaser?

 

[Captivated]

Captivated, all I have to say to you is this:

"Justice is about harmony. Revenge is about you making yourself feel better."

- Batman Begins​

The ends don't justify the means. I don't care what Lex did, you don't go all psycho and invade someone's entire life like that. This is why she and Clark can't be together...this is why Clark and Oliver bumped heads...the ends do not justify the means.

Clark understands that...Lana doesn't.

Huh... There are many of definitions of JUSTICE and NONE of them are "harmony."

It looks to me like the ends DO justify the means on this show... depending on who you are.

 

[Eddie Brock]

Huh... There are many of definitions of JUSTICE and NONE of them are "harmony."

It looks to me like the ends DO justify the means on this show... depending on who you are.

I don't know what brand of justice you employ, but justice is too about harmony.

Someone commits a crime, they are given a punishment equal in proportion to that crime. Their punishment is to counterbalance whatever evil act they committed.

That's why we have the Eight Amendment in the United States. It is forbidding of "cruel and unusual punishment."

Ever heard the saying, "Does the punishment fit the crime?" Exactly. Justice is not about merely getting revenge on someone who has done wrong.

What Lana is doing is not 'justice.' He faked a pregnancy and slapped her. So she now essentially stalks him. In this case, the punishment does not fit the crime.

 

[Syncos]

I don't know what brand of justice you employ, but justice is too about harmony.

Someone commits a crime, they are given a punishment equal in proportion to that crime. Their punishment is to counterbalance whatever evil act they committed.

That's why we have the Eight Amendment in the United States. It is forbidding of "cruel and unusual punishment."

Ever heard the saying, "Does the punishment fit the crime?" Exactly. Justice is not about merely getting revenge on someone who has done wrong.

What Lana is doing is not 'justice.' He faked a pregnancy and slapped her. So she now essentially stalks him. In this case, the punishment does not fit the crime.

You're right. invasion of privacy doesn't nearly make up for faking a pregnancy, faking a miscarriage, physical abuse and threatening to kill her.

The punishment does not fit the crime. He deserves much worse.

As far as I'm concerned, the only time she crossed the line, was when she was going to kill him.

 

[Eddie Brock]

You're right. invasion of privacy doesn't nearly make up for faking a pregnancy, faking a miscarriage, physical abuse and threatening to kill her.

The punishment does not fit the crime. He deserves much worse.

As far as I'm concerned, the only time she crossed the line, was when she was going to kill him.

So, since Lex did that to her, she's allowed to embezzle millions of dollars and invade his privacy?

You Lana-protectors are ridiculous. I pray to God that none of you are lawyers, politicians, or police officers. Our system is corrupt enough without people with misguided ideals.

 

[Prison Mike]

I agree. The only time she was out of line was when she attempted to murder him. But stalking and watching him on cameras is nothing compared to what he did to her. He physically abused her with the fake miscarriage and slapping her. She shouldn't have tried to kill him though. THAT was wrong of her.

 

[COMPO]

^Is that said by Alfred in the TDK teaser?

yep!t:

 

[Eddie Brock]

I agree. The only time she was out of line was when she attempted to murder him. But stalking and watching him on cameras is nothing compared to what he did to her. He physically abused her with the fake miscarriage and slapping her. She shouldn't have tried to kill him though. THAT was wrong of her.

I can barely stand you people. No, let's ignore the fact that Lana has embezzled all that money and the fact that she's in complete violation of the US Constitution by invading his privacy. No, let's put that all aside because Lana's such a little victim, and she's too gosh darn cute to judge.



Oh, and did I forget to mention that she kidnapped Lionel and had no intention of letting him leave alive? That was a nice touch, too.



I'm not saying that Lex doesn't deserve what he gets. Because Lord knows that he does. But who the Hell is Lana to be judge, jury, and executioner?

You guys have such a double-standard, it's not even funny.

 

[Prison Mike]

I can barely stand you people. No, let's ignore the fact that Lana has embezzled all that money and the fact that she's in complete violation of the US Constitution by invading his privacy. No, let's put that all aside because Lana's such a little victim, and she's too gosh darn cute to judge.



Oh, and did I forget to mention that she kidnapped Lionel and had no intention of letting him leave alive? That was a nice touch, too.



I'm not saying that Lex doesn't deserve what he gets. Because Lord knows that he does. But who the Hell is Lana to be judge, jury, and executioner?

You guys have such a double-standard, it's not even funny.

such hatred over a fictional character

 

[Syncos]

I can barely stand you people. No, let's ignore the fact that Lana has embezzled all that money and the fact that she's in complete violation of the US Constitution by invading his privacy. No, let's put that all aside because Lana's such a little victim, and she's too gosh darn cute to judge.



Oh, and did I forget to mention that she kidnapped Lionel and had no intention of letting him leave alive? That was a nice touch, too.



I'm not saying that Lex doesn't deserve what he gets. Because Lord knows that he does. But who the Hell is Lana to be judge, jury, and executioner?

You guys have such a double-standard, it's not even funny.

I never said what Lana did was right, or justified. I just said that her watching him on cameras wasn't even comparative to what he did to her.

As for the 10 million dollars. He's lucky that's all she took. Had he simply divorced him, she would have received much, much more than that, in settlements. But then again, he's of killed her. So I guess that wasn't an option.

Had grant not been in the Luthor's pocket, and actually exposed Luthor, than Lex would have gotten what he deserved. Since that was originally Lana's goal, I think you should get a sick bag. Because out "defending" her isn't the issue. I don't have any personal preference when it comes to characters. I've defended just about all of them. But it seems like your hatred for Lana seems to be clouding your judgment.

 

[Serene]

It really bothers me the way some are trying to frame Lana's actions... Some people (on the show and in the forums) just don't get the gravity of what the Luthors did to her, AND what she (and possibly Lionel) uniquely KNOWS Lex has done to others.

Lana historically HAS wanted to help others. That is in her character. I don't think she has radically changed when it comes to motivation.

Since Lana knows what Lex did to her, has done to others, and what he is capable of... not to mention his obsession with aliens (i.e. Clark and Kara), I think her MAIN motivation is PROTECTING Clark, EXPOSING Lex, and seeing JUSTICE done for his victims... which would include herself.

Since when is a VICTIM'S desire to prevent others from being hurt, and see a criminal brought to JUSTICE dismissed as deviant... or "just out for revenge"!?

There is a fine line between revenge and justice... two sides of the same sword, both of which can draw blood. Revenge implies something impulsive, done by the wronged individual... justice implies thoughtfulness, laws and a system that society has established to deal with criminals.

Lana had enough experience with Lex and was obviously AFRAID enough of him not to trust conventional avenues. That is why she tried to frame him and faked her own death to escape him AND get him off the streets (so to speak.)

When that didn't work, she tried to take care of him personally... She had the PERFECT chance for REVENGE, but couldn't do it. SHE COULDN'T KILL LEX when she had the chance to do so and NO ONE would have convicted her. She also couldn't KILL Lionel either, but cooked up an ill conceived plan to eliminate the threat that she thought he posed.

Her surveillance of Lex is more of an indication that she RIGHTLY does not trust him, wants to PROTECT herself and those she loves, and she is looking for HARD EVIDENCE to EXPOSE him and bring him to JUSTICE.

But, with Clark's powers Lana had a sense of being invulnerable... Like she told Chloe, she wanted to use the advantage to "tell the world" about Lex. When taking evidence to the press didn't work... and she realized that he was still obsessed with ALIENS (i.e.. dangerous to Clark and Kara and others), it was only THEN that her frustration and aggression drove her to try to "take care of" (kill) Lex herself. Would she have gone through with it this time? May-be... may-be not...

EVEN SO, I still wouldn't say that her ONLY motivation was revenge. Revenge would have been putting a bullet in Lex the first chance she got.

As for the difference between Clark and Lana and the way she handled his powers... Clark grew up with great power... he was raised with it and the confidence it gave him. He has power and a sense of control MOST of the time. Lana on the other hand is well acquainted with what it is like to be POWERLESS and completely at the mercy of those who have the capacity to destroy your whole world. Clark also doesn't know about all Lex has done... Their perspectives are very different. He doesn't come close to having the same sense of being a victim that Lana has.

Even Oliver accused Clark of not doing all he could to bring justice to the world. Clark does tend to be reactive and not proactive. One could ask, if he knows what Lex did to Lana and the 33.1 victims, why isn't HE using his powers to bring him to justice?

That goes for Chloe too. Quite frankly, her calling Lana DEVIANT for spying on Lex HAD to be one of the most hypocritical things I've ever heard! And even after they discovered that Lex was trying to track Kryptonians, Chloe cut off her surveillance?! What the hell?!

Chloe was awfully sanctimonious in this episode, given her own actions, and willingness to cross lines to basically do the same thing Lana was trying to do.

And Lionel, just last episode, KILLED for Clark and we all sighed with relief... But when Lana told Chloe that she would do anything for Clark, Chloe said "Even kill... lucky guy." Of course it was dripping with pious sarcasm. That was the first time I think I wanted to slap Chloe.

I think Clark's trouble expression in the barn was not just because he realized that Lana had been hiding things from him... Even though Lana IS responsible for her own decisions, Clark KNOWS what Lex said is true... being with Lex DAMAGED her... and she would not have been with Lex if he had been honest with her and not pushed her away.

I can see the writers exploring the repercussions of Lana's TRAUMATIC experience. Not surprising that what she went through made her "darker," but I'm NOT liking the lack of explanation and the confusing, hypocritical reactions of the other characters.

I agree so strongly with a lot of what you have to say about this episode, Cap, although there are a few points that I'd have to disagree on. I rewatched this episode with avid yesterday (which was great fun, btw) and I'm debating writing a more in depth commentary about it now. I was just going to let it lie, because honestly, there is no reasoning or changing of anyone's minds when it comes to issues like these - I really don't believe that's possible, not with die-hard fans. But, it's such a great episode and it's so interesting to see how differently people are interpreting the actions of the main characters, I'd like to at least document mine and throw them into the ring as well.

Basically, I find it a really unfair argument for people to compare Lana's moral standings to Clark's. Would anyone stand up to Clark's?

Also, there seems to be a collective sigh of relief from certain fans that their suspicions of "Evil Lana" have finally been proven. The influence of Clark's powers on her apparently don't count for anything when it serves to support the argument that she is the 'depraved' murderer bent on revenge and revenge only.

The stuff she pulled before the power-influx though - kidnapping Lionel and spying on Lex - were both conscience choices that she made and took unapologetic responsibility for. She had her reasons, and whether or not Clark accepts and understands those reasons is up to Clark. He's a pretty understanding guy, but condoning what she did to Lionel probably isn't going to happen. Will he forgive her and try to help her? I would hope so. What lasting effect this will have on their relationship is pretty much already written in stone. But I don't think his accepting that Lana has flaws is necessarily a bad thing for either of them, and I don't think Clark Kent would completely turn away from her because of it.

The issue of spying on Lex, seems to be something that he would be more understanding of since he already acknowledged that without Lana, they wouldn't know about Lex's continuing plans to investigate 'aliens.' But it's the lying about it, that is the sticky point. Lana withheld information from Clark for a number of valid seeming reasons, but it did serve to show her prioritizing her need for exposing Lex over her desire for an open, honest relationship with Clark after all the years of lies between them. This is Lana's big heavy cross to bear and resolve - with or without Clark.

Wtf Chloe thinks she's doing by cutting off Lana's system is beyond me. Expressing her concern for Clark is certainly understandable, but cutting off Lana's surveillance stuff was totally out of line. But considering how incredibly fast and easily she went from her back-handed praising of Lana's efforts ("she's lying to you for a good cause, Clark") to calling Lana "depraved" without even the tiniest thought of maybe asking Lana WHY she's doing all this, it's pretty understandable.

 

[Captivated]

I agree so strongly with a lot of what you have to say about this episode, Cap, although there are a few points that I'd have to disagree on. I rewatched this episode with avid yesterday (which was great fun, btw) and I'm debating writing a more in depth commentary about it now. I was just going to let it lie, because honestly, there is no reasoning or changing of anyone's minds when it comes to issues like these - I really don't believe that's possible, not with die-hard fans. But, it's such a great episode and it's so interesting to see how differently people are interpreting the actions of the main characters, I'd like to at least document mine and throw them into the ring as well.

Basically, I find it a really unfair argument for people to compare Lana's moral standings to Clark's. Would anyone stand up to Clark's?

Also, there seems to be a collective sigh of relief from certain fans that their suspicions of "Evil Lana" have finally been proven. The influence of Clark's powers on her apparently don't count for anything when it serves to support the argument that she is the 'depraved' murderer bent on revenge and revenge only.

The stuff she pulled before the power-influx though - kidnapping Lionel and spying on Lex - were both conscience choices that she made and took unapologetic responsibility for. She had her reasons, and whether or not Clark accepts and understands those reasons is up to Clark. He's a pretty understanding guy, but condoning what she did to Lionel probably isn't going to happen. Will he forgive her and try to help her? I would hope so. What lasting effect this will have on their relationship is pretty much already written in stone. But I don't think his accepting that Lana has flaws is necessarily a bad thing for either of them, and I don't think Clark Kent would completely turn away from her because of it.

The issue of spying on Lex, seems to be something that he would be more understanding of since he already acknowledged that without Lana, they wouldn't know about Lex's continuing plans to investigate 'aliens.' But it's the lying about it, that is the sticky point. Lana withheld information from Clark for a number of valid seeming reasons, but it did serve to show her prioritizing her need for exposing Lex over her desire for an open, honest relationship with Clark after all the years of lies between them. This is Lana's big heavy cross to bear and resolve - with or without Clark.

Wtf Chloe thinks she's doing by cutting off Lana's system is beyond me. Expressing her concern for Clark is certainly understandable, but cutting off Lana's surveillance stuff was totally out of line. But considering how incredibly fast and easily she went from her back-handed praising of Lana's efforts ("she's lying to you for a good cause, Clark") to calling Lana "depraved" without even the tiniest thought of maybe asking Lana WHY she's doing all this, it's pretty understandable.

I know there are double standards on this show... because I participate in them too. I never got upset with Clark for lying to Lana (well may-be a little bit) as I have with Lana keeping things from Clark. I too think she had understandable reasons for starting down this path, for the most part ALONE, but that changed and she should have come clean with Clark shortly after they renewed their relationship.

What Lana was doing with Lionel makes no sense to me, and quite frankly, seems to be poor writing. When Lionel blackmailed her by threatening Clark, that shook her world, and she essentially fell on a sword to protect Clark.

But that's not where they left her and Lionel. When Lionel was in the hospital and Lana asked him to give her one good reason why she shouldn't kill him, he told her he was protecting Clark. She later asked him to explain and I thought that Lionel had filled her in at that point. May-be she didn't believe him... but you would think that Clark would have told her about Lionel. I don't know... her motivation or plan (it seems that she didn't plan on killing him) seems to be thinly written.

Which is actually a complaint I have in general about this season.

 

[Dr Magneto Doom]

Loving Smallville this season, the writers finally got it right.

Ps. what is the name of the song in the beginning?

 

[SamuraiSon6]

Save Me- Remy Zero

 

[Dr Magneto Doom]

Save Me- Remy Zero

No lol, i mean in that episode as they were riding the horses.

 

[avidreader]

Wow! I was just going to read through all these posts and absorb what everyone had to say without really responding much myself, but it seems I've been a little trigger happy with the multi-quote function and I'm on the verge of a long ass post. I hope the length of my post doesnt scare anyone off from reading it.

I'm quoting a part of my very last quote first, because it was a great experience watching an episode of Smallville with a friend.

I rewatched this episode with avid yesterday (which was great fun, btw)

Loved watching it with you too. And it was great that we could pause the episode and discuss certain things that were going on. My long term memory works pretty well, but my short term memory isnt always so quick and I do forget alot of things that happen and why, so it was great to be able to do that.

The one big thing that seperates Lana and Ollie in their quest to stop Lex is how close one is to the situation compared to the other. Lana was married to Lex, she feels betrayed and abused. Her motivations are to hurt Lex while in the process save a few people. Ollie doesn't have such a personal relationship with Lex and his motives are not driven by pain and hatred. Sure they went to school together as teens and weren't the best of friends but both seemed to have clearly gotten over their colored past.

If anyone needs any further evidence that Lana's motivation was fueled by revenge...just take a look at the title of the episode,"Wrath", that seems to tell us everything.

One last thing, I find it laughable that anyone would blame Clark for the turn that Lana has taken in her life. All the secrets and lies that Clark has kept from her was done out of love and to protect her. Even Lana knows that and confirmed it at the end of the episode.

Ahhh.... I just wanted to quote this post, because the pure logic of it all was a joy to read. Thanks Migu. :heart:

I completely agree that Lana has crossed lines this season, and that she’s in a way dangerous place. She NEEDS someone to sit her down, tell her that her actions are wrong and that she needs to snap out of it, like, yesterday. Because this is not who she is and when the dust settles down, she will regret her actions. I’d prefer this person to be Clark. And I know him and their relationship has the power to bring her back by making her realize her craziness.

I'm not sure that regret is what I want her to feel, maybe a little bit but not overall. However, I would like to see her learn and better herself for the experience. I also hope that Clark is the one that can help her heal, through love, understanding and compassion. I think if they took the path to have Clark come to some realisation that Lana is twisted and therefore not worthy of him would be such a tragedy. For me, that's not what Clark Kent/Superman is all about.

Chloe: Which is why I hated the Chloe/Lana scene where Chloe went all ‘holier than thou’ on Lana. She didn’t even try and ask what Lana’s motivations were in setting up the surveillance, or talk to her about her methods, maybe even help her by suggesting other methods. Because as I remember this is the same Chloe who kinda thought that leaving Lex to die in ‘Nemesis was not such a bad idea either. But no, she just goes and cuts it all off and then goes on a speech about loyalty.

Wtf Chloe thinks she's doing by cutting off Lana's system is beyond me. Expressing her concern for Clark is certainly understandable, but cutting off Lana's surveillance stuff was totally out of line. But considering how incredibly fast and easily she went from her back-handed praising of Lana's efforts ("she's lying to you for a good cause, Clark") to calling Lana "depraved" without even the tiniest thought of maybe asking Lana WHY she's doing all this, it's pretty understandable.

Quoting both of these, because I agree entirely.

I could be snarky and say that Chloe cut off the feed because she was jealous that she didnt think of doing it first, but I guess that wouldnt really add much to the discussion. But I am really bothered that Chloe felt that it was her place and her right to do it. Her reaction does seem to come off as though she is harbouring some jealousy that she's not the only one now protecting Clark and out to get the Luthors. I think she also showed a similar reaction when Lois vowed she was going after Lex.

Clark: I really, really felt for Clark. Poor guy. To have all this happening to and around him. And he still goes and handles it all the best he can. So much love for this guy.

So true. The guy just tries so hard to do what's right and some times makes the wrong choice, but that's the thing about choices. You have to choose one without knowing what the end result is going to be.

Actually, for the most parts what I've seen is discussion about differing views. Not whining.

Posts like "Lana sux she shud die!" or "WTFZ WHY IZNT CLARK FLYING YET!" are whining. discussion with ample points to back up why you feel a certain way, that's called discussion, or active debate.

Please hang up and try your post again.

Just quoted this one, again for its logic, and because it was too damn funny!! t:

The biggest lier on this show, for the last 6 seasons has been...............................Clark.

How many times has he pulled Lana in just to lie to her and break her heart? All in the name of protecting her! What a buncha crap.

She's not evil. She's pissed! Rightfully so.

I could argue about who truly is the biggest liar on the show, but that's not the reason I quoted your post.

I think some seem to forget that while yes, Clark has kept things from Lana, he also made it clear very early on that he did have secrets and that he just wasnt able to be truthful with her.

It was Lana who chose to stay, leave and keep coming back to Clark. He never forced her to or actively pursued her when she was with someone else and she did so knowing full well what having a relationship with Clark was all about. The only episode where we've seen Clark approach Lana was Promise and by that time he knew that she was still in love with him as evidenced in the episode Hydro.

As many other have quoted in this thread, Lana even said so in this episode. She's made her own choices and needs to live by them.

Just glad she told Clark to get his butt of the farm!!

It wasnt the "getting his butt off the farm" part that I took exception to, it was her saying that he does "nothing". I think that was a little sad for her to feel that even if she was out of character. Clark, so far on the series, is mostly about protecting people, which is why he is seen as being more reactive than proactive. Exposing and digging up the bad guys, wont come to fruition until he takes on his secret identity and becomes a reporter for the Daily Planet.

What Lex did to Lana was horrendous. She was betrayed, used, manipulated and violated physically and emotionally. And no matter what mistakes one might think Lana has made (like getting involved with Lex and trusting him in the first place), she did not deserve what he did to her and it is not alright that it happened to her.

Agreed.

Clark also has been victimized by both Luthors. In “Memoria” Lionel set him up and forced him against his will to go through a procedure that invaded his private childhood memories. This procedure could have killed Clark. In “Hypnotic” Lex had him hypnotized and then set him (and Lana) up by having Lana witness him being seduced by Simone. There are also countless other times that Clark has been violated by those who would misuse his abilities and use him for personal gain. It’s one of the major reasons he doesn’t advertise who he really is!

Totally agree.

But, and this is the important part, there is a major difference in the way that Clark and Lana respond to being victimized. Clark doesn’t feel the need to get revenge when he has been violated. It goes against his inner grain. He chooses instead not to give in to the hate that fuels revenge and destroys a person. Clark does not try to retaliate or act out of spite.

Also totally agree. Its what sets him apart from everyone else.

Lana, from her actions so far this season, appears to be acting spitefully.

Isnt she having a normal human reaction though. Wouldn't anyone that's been through what she's been through have a bitter reaction to it all.

It could even be argued that Lana was acting out of spite when she ran straight to Lex after Clark told her he didn’t love her anymore. This was certainly the way Clark saw it in “Crimson.” And after seeing this episode it does seem more likely than not that spite did play a part of her being with Lex. This causes her to not be seen as sympathetically as she would otherwise.

I've always thought that. And I think the writers even tried to show that with the conversation between Lana and Chloe in Fragile.

Twice now, once in “Spell” and again in “Wrath,” Lana has seemed intoxicated with power and has acted irresponsibly.

Lana was possessed in Spell, so I dont think you can use that as an example of her being intoxicated with power.

Remember back to the conversation that Jonathan had with Clark in Talisman, how even though he only had Clark's powers for a very short time, having that power was very intoxicating.

And yeah sure, he's had these powers all of his life, so he's had time to adjust. Clark even said this to Lana, but the fact that he doesnt use them for his own gain and uses them to protect, just once again shows how Clark is so different and special than everyone else

As a result, Clark is now seeing similarities between Lex and Lana that trouble him. He’s been overlooking it and denying it but in this episode he has had to deal with it.

And hopefully they take the route where Clark will be able to inspire Lana to let go of the hatred and continue her Isis Foundation for the right reasons.

My favorite scene of the episode is the last scene in the loft between Lana and Clark. The writing and the way the lines are delivered by both actors is excellent.

I think that may become one of my favourite Clark/Lana scenes. They were both brilliant there. Tom and Kristin know these characters so well, and its a real joy to watch them.

It really bothers me the way some are trying to frame Lana's actions... Some people (on the show and in the forums) just don't get the gravity of what the Luthors did to her, AND what she (and possibly Lionel) uniquely KNOWS Lex has done to others.

Lana historically HAS wanted to help others. That is in her character. I don't think she has radically changed when it comes to motivation.

I agree with this and she is still about wanting to help. Its her methods, which she has learned from her time with the Luthors, that she needs to rethink.

Since Lana knows what Lex did to her, has done to others, and what he is capable of... not to mention his obsession with aliens (i.e. Clark and Kara), I think her MAIN motivation is PROTECTING Clark, EXPOSING Lex, and seeing JUSTICE done for his victims... which would include herself.

Yes, and she even said so in the episode. I think her motivation and message got a little lost though, because she was acting without scruples.

Lana had enough experience with Lex and was obviously AFRAID enough of him not to trust conventional avenues. That is why she tried to frame him and faked her own death to escape him AND get him off the streets (so to speak.)

Lex is a master manipulator and is capable of preventing the real truth from coming out, to not only the people around him, but to the authorities and the highest form of government. In order to expose him, you have to play at his level, something that Clark is not prepared to do, and Lana is.

I'm interested to see where they are now going to take this plot with her character since she's been precluded from using these not so ethical methods.

Her surveillance of Lex is more of an indication that she RIGHTLY does not trust him, wants to PROTECT herself and those she loves, and she is looking for HARD EVIDENCE to EXPOSE him and bring him to JUSTICE.

Which is why I dont fully comprehend Chloe's motivation or justification for disabling the surveillance.

And Lionel, just last episode, KILLED for Clark and we all sighed with relief... But when Lana told Chloe that she would do anything for Clark, Chloe said "Even kill... lucky guy." Of course it was dripping with pious sarcasm. That was the first time I think I wanted to slap Chloe.

Those words annoyed me endlessly because Chloe knew that Lana wasnt herself. Has Chloe ever heard Lana say out loud, when Lana is her normal self, that she would kill anyone to protect Clark???? Lana said she would do anything to protect Clark, and Chloe also said the same thing in Splinter.

I think Clark's trouble expression in the barn was not just because he realized that Lana had been hiding things from him... Even though Lana IS responsible for her own decisions, Clark KNOWS what Lex said is true... being with Lex DAMAGED her... and she would not have been with Lex if he had been honest with her and not pushed her away.

I have to disagree with you there. Lana may have turned to Lex after her relationship with Clark, but it was Lana who chose to have a relationship with Lex.

I really don't believe that's possible, not with die-hard fans. But, it's such a great episode and it's so interesting to see how differently people are interpreting the actions of the main characters, I'd like to at least document mine and throw them into the ring as well.

ALWAYS love reading your thoughts and comments, so dont ever stop. :heart:

The stuff she pulled before the power-influx though - kidnapping Lionel and spying on Lex - were both conscience choices that she made and took unapologetic responsibility for.

I so loved her owning up to that and that is what sets her so, so, so far apart from Lex. When have we ever seen Lex take responsibility, (aside from his little religious ephiphany that he had earlier this season) for his actions. NEVER!! Lex is always about putting the responsibility of who and what he is on to everyone else.

Will he forgive her and try to help her? I would hope so. What lasting effect this will have on their relationship is pretty much already written in stone. But I don't think his accepting that Lana has flaws is necessarily a bad thing for either of them, and I don't think Clark Kent would completely turn away from her because of it.

I agree. Seeing that Lana does have flaws, puts humanity in to perspective for him. What's that line from the Superman movie.....

"They are a good people Kal-el, they just lack the light to show them the way"

 

[Prison Mike]

No lol, i mean in that episode as they were riding the horses.

It was "My Eyes" by Travis

 

[Migu-EL]

Wow! I was just going to read through all these posts and absorb what everyone had to say without really responding much myself, but it seems I've been a little trigger happy with the multi-quote function and I'm on the verge of a long ass post. I hope the length of my post doesnt scare anyone off from reading it.

I'm quoting a part of my very last quote first, because it was a great experience watching an episode of Smallville with a friend.



Loved watching it with you too. And it was great that we could pause the episode and discuss certain things that were going on. My long term memory works pretty well, but my short term memory isnt always so quick and I do forget alot of things that happen and why, so it was great to be able to do that.



Ahhh.... I just wanted to quote this post, because the pure logic of it all was a joy to read. Thanks Migu. :heart:



I'm not sure that regret is what I want her to feel, maybe a little bit but not overall. However, I would like to see her learn and better herself for the experience. I also hope that Clark is the one that can help her heal, through love, understanding and compassion. I think if they took the path to have Clark come to some realisation that Lana is twisted and therefore not worthy of him would be such a tragedy. For me, that's not what Clark Kent/Superman is all about.





Quoting both of these, because I agree entirely.

I could be snarky and say that Chloe cut off the feed because she was jealous that she didnt think of doing it first, but I guess that wouldnt really add much to the discussion. But I am really bothered that Chloe felt that it was her place and her right to do it. Her reaction does seem to come off as though she is harbouring some jealousy that she's not the only one now protecting Clark and out to get the Luthors. I think she also showed a similar reaction when Lois vowed she was going after Lex.



So true. The guy just tries so hard to do what's right and some times makes the wrong choice, but that's the thing about choices. You have to choose one without knowing what the end result is going to be.



Just quoted this one, again for its logic, and because it was too damn funny!! t:



I could argue about who truly is the biggest liar on the show, but that's not the reason I quoted your post.

I think some seem to forget that while yes, Clark has kept things from Lana, he also made it clear very early on that he did have secrets and that he just wasnt able to be truthful with her.

It was Lana who chose to stay, leave and keep coming back to Clark. He never forced her to or actively pursued her when she was with someone else and she did so knowing full well what having a relationship with Clark was all about. The only episode where we've seen Clark approach Lana was Promise and by that time he knew that she was still in love with him as evidenced in the episode Hydro.

As many other have quoted in this thread, Lana even said so in this episode. She's made her own choices and needs to live by them.




It wasnt the "getting his butt off the farm" part that I took exception to, it was her saying that he does "nothing". I think that was a little sad for her to feel that even if she was out of character. Clark, so far on the series, is mostly about protecting people, which is why he is seen as being more reactive than proactive. Exposing and digging up the bad guys, wont come to fruition until he takes on his secret identity and becomes a reporter for the Daily Planet.



Agreed.



Totally agree.



Also totally agree. Its what sets him apart from everyone else.



Isnt she having a normal human reaction though. Wouldn't anyone that's been through what she's been through have a bitter reaction to it all.



I've always thought that. And I think the writers even tried to show that with the conversation between Lana and Chloe in Fragile.



Lana was possessed in Spell, so I dont think you can use that as an example of her being intoxicated with power.

Remember back to the conversation that Jonathan had with Clark in Talisman, how even though he only had Clark's powers for a very short time, having that power was very intoxicating.

And yeah sure, he's had these powers all of his life, so he's had time to adjust. Clark even said this to Lana, but the fact that he doesnt use them for his own gain and uses them to protect, just once again shows how Clark is so different and special than everyone else



And hopefully they take the route where Clark will be able to inspire Lana to let go of the hatred and continue her Isis Foundation for the right reasons.



I think that may become one of my favourite Clark/Lana scenes. They were both brilliant there. Tom and Kristin know these characters so well, and its a real joy to watch them.



I agree with this and she is still about wanting to help. Its her methods, which she has learned from her time with the Luthors, that she needs to rethink.



Yes, and she even said so in the episode. I think her motivation and message got a little lost though, because she was acting without scruples.



Lex is a master manipulator and is capable of preventing the real truth from coming out, to not only the people around him, but to the authorities and the highest form of government. In order to expose him, you have to play at his level, something that Clark is not prepared to do, and Lana is.

I'm interested to see where they are now going to take this plot with her character since she's been precluded from using these not so ethical methods.



Which is why I dont fully comprehend Chloe's motivation or justification for disabling the surveillance.



Those words annoyed me endlessly because Chloe knew that Lana wasnt herself. Has Chloe ever heard Lana say out loud, when Lana is her normal self, that she would kill anyone to protect Clark???? Lana said she would do anything to protect Clark, and Chloe also said the same thing in Splinter.



I have to disagree with you there. Lana may have turned to Lex after her relationship with Clark, but it was Lana who chose to have a relationship with Lex.



ALWAYS love reading your thoughts and comments, so dont ever stop. :heart:



I so loved her owning up to that and that is what sets her so, so, so far apart from Lex. When have we ever seen Lex take responsibility, (aside from his little religious ephiphany that he had earlier this season) for his action. NEVER!! Lex is always about putting the responsibility of who and what he is on to everyone else.



I agree. Seeing that Lana does have flaws, puts humanity in to perspective for him. What's that line from the Superman movie.....

"They are a good people Kal-el they just lack the light to show them the way"

Holy multi-quotes Batman.

 

[Dr Magneto Doom]

Thank youuuuuuuuuuuu

 

[Migu-EL]

Ahhh.... I just wanted to quote this post, because the pure logic of it all was a joy to read. Thanks Migu. :heart:

Thanks Avid.:heart:

 

[Riva]

Wow! I was just going to read through all these posts and absorb what everyone had to say without really responding much myself, but it seems I've been a little trigger happy with the multi-quote function and I'm on the verge of a long ass post. I hope the length of my post doesnt scare anyone off from reading it.

Quoting both of these, because I agree entirely.

I could be snarky and say that Chloe cut off the feed because she was jealous that she didnt think of doing it first, but I guess that wouldnt really add much to the discussion. But I am really bothered that Chloe felt that it was her place and her right to do it. Her reaction does seem to come off as though she is harbouring some jealousy that she's not the only one now protecting Clark and out to get the Luthors. I think she also showed a similar reaction when Lois vowed she was going after Lex

Hey, I love the long ass posts anyways, Lol. So keep them coming!

I am so glad we're on the same wavelength about Chloe, because sometimes I feel so out of the loop when it comes to this character and the reactions to her. I think a lot of people really liked Chloe in this episode and how she stood up for Clark, and I can completely see that. But I dont know, I guess I just cant help but think there's something more to her words and actions. And her general sense of 'holier than thou'ness really bothered me too, above anything else, because, hello, Chloe. I dont know whether any of this is motivated by her thinking she might now have a chance with Clark. Maybe she thinks the kind of loyalty she was talking about can only come from her? Who knows. I'd like to think this isn't her reasoning and that she's smart enough to know the ship has sailed there. Bit again, who knows. And I agree generally about her sort of wierd double standards too. For all her talk of going after Lex, she never actually does anything, but actually even stops it, as was in Lois's case. And with Lana here, there was a better way to stop her descent here, or even to tell her to stop and still defend Clark but I'm not sure any of that involved taking it upon herself to just cut off what was surveillance set up by Lana, of Lex. I just found Chloe to be really wierd in this episode, to be honest. I've been trying really hard to still keep liking her, but ever since season 6, its just not been that easy.