8.20 - Beast - Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

Ugh, getting tired of SV episodes ending with a handful of people close to Clark telling him about what he needs to do. This "afraid to take a life" Clark is getting old. Maybe when Doomsday eats Chloe, he'll man up :whatever:
 
They have pretty much ruined Chloe. At the end of the episode they try to cover it up with some bs about her doing it for Clark :rolleyes: WHATEVER! Tell that to Olsen, he is the one that got the raw deal in this. Even after being right about everything, she screws him over, even more by protecting DINO. She should have begged him for forgiveness. Instead his life goes to shambles, he gets a friggin drug habit over this crap... What a way to make people hate Chloe.
 
Ugh, getting tired of SV episodes ending with a handful of people close to Clark telling him about what he needs to do. This "afraid to take a life" Clark is getting old. Maybe when Doomsday eats Chloe, he'll man up :whatever:

Superman doesn't kill people, and Davis is still attached to Doomsday (maybe he tries to separate doomsday from Davis) what people need to do is leave Clark alone and trust that he'll find a way to deal with the situation.
 
I'd NEVER have the same kind of blind faith in Clark that people have in comic book Superman. I don't know how anybody(especially those close) to him could put their trust in his ability to get the job done. I was bummed at first that he didn't join Ollie's Justice League, but now I'm convinced they're better off w/o him. While Aquaman and Cyborg would rather put a dangerous serial killer down, Clark would try to find out why he's such a bad person.

And Superman has killed his fair share of people. They're usual a pretty significant threat which makes sense, but I'd say Davis qualifies.
 
They have pretty much ruined Chloe. At the end of the episode they try to cover it up with some bs about her doing it for Clark :rolleyes: WHATEVER! Tell that to Olsen, he is the one that got the raw deal in this. Even after being right about everything, she screws him over, even more by protecting DINO. She should have begged him for forgiveness. Instead his life goes to shambles, he gets a friggin drug habit over this crap... What a way to make people hate Chloe.

I don't think that bs chloe gave to clark about saving him was true. I got the impression that that was an excuse to justify what she did. She's really trying to save Davis because she needs to save someone. she's probably feeling left out. Clark is on his own and doesn't need her help anymore. she isn't a journalist anymore. jimmy left her. she probably needs to save davis to feel like she's needed. that's the impression I got.
 
Ugh, getting tired of SV episodes ending with a handful of people close to Clark telling him about what he needs to do. This "afraid to take a life" Clark is getting old. Maybe when Doomsday eats Chloe, he'll man up :whatever:

I'm kind of finding it irritating as well, but... atleast in the latest couple of cases it has been Oliver. Atleast as a hero, he has some sort of relevant perspective on Clark. Clark is putting him at risk, and the other JLAers. After Clark, they are the second line of defence against baddies, and none could handle DD.

I'd really enjoy seeing Cyborg get dismantled by DD... that would make me happy. (I have no hate for Cyborg, it would just be cool to see him ripped apart, and it can avoid a bloody mess etc.)

Let's also not forget that Clark had manned up a bit, and was a stones throw from tossing Davis into the PZ.
 
Yeah, I'd have loved to see Doomsday in the PZ. Chloe seemed to think it'd be horrible for him, but he'd spend eternity killing Phantoms....and probably enjoying it lol.

I really think it'll something horrible(like DD eating Chloe) to make Clark fight hard enough to kill. And it'll be loooong overdue :o
 
Clark has already killed people in this series though. Remember back in season one with the freezing jock? He punches him into a lake and the lake freezes him. Didn't he kill that poison ivyy- rippoff lady too from season six or seven?
 
actually clark has never actually killed any of the zoners/fotws they all died on their own accord.
 
actually clark has never actually killed any of the zoners/fotws they all died on their own accord.

I remember in Gone, Clark and Lois tag teamed the Terminator wannabe to blow up into pieces
 
I do like how Oliver, Clark and Chloe are all trying to do the right thing in their own way. Oliver's is the safe choice, the one that, in theory, means the threat to the world is over and gone for good. All it requires is Clark taking somebodies life. (Also not the most thought out plan, since Davis/Doomsday has been shown to come back to life after dying. GG Oliver)

One question that kinda sprung to mind was, does Green Arrow kill in the comics? and I was kind of thinking what would Batman's stance be? I mean he'd be against Killing davis and also like in JLU's Doomsday Sanction he'd be against sending him to the phantom zone... so would he be in the middle?
 
I'm not sure why everyone is hating Chloe right now. From my point of view I think it's obvious that she's doing everything for Clark's sake. She's a true friend who is sacrificing her own life to protect Clark.
Her nightmare at the start of this episode proves what her biggest fear is....Clark dead!
You can also tell from her body language, the way that she's acting and the things that she's saying that she's doing all this for the right reasons.
Chloe has said on more than one occation that she would die for Clark and she is proving right now that she'd do anything for him.
 
Clark has killed Meteor freaks in Seasons 1 and 2 though and they were far less dangers.
 
I'm not sure why everyone is hating Chloe right now...
Because she hasn't thought this through, despite appearances to the contrary. At best, she's prolonging the inevitable, and she would know that if she gave it a moment's thought. She knows Davis can't be killed, he's essentially immortal, and she knows he was sent to kill Clark. Hello? Chloe? Wake up hon! She cant protect Clark forever. Once she's dead, there's nothing stopping Davis from fulfilling his destiny. The best solution for the world would have been to send Davis to the PZ, because by Chloe's own admission, the good of the world should come before any individual - even Davis. She stopped Clark from banishing Davis, which ultimately ends up killing Superman in the future. Is it any wonder why fans are not too fond of Chloe right now? Well, unless you're a TWoPper.

We can only hope that next season Clark will develop more of the bullheadedness Superman is known for, because if he acted on his gut instincts in Beast like he usually does, he would have sent Davis packing.
 
I think Chloe's nightmare resulted from the guilt she was feeling for harboring Davis in the talon. It wasn't because she's trying to save Clark. If she really wanted to, she would have let Clark send Davis to the PZ where he can run around and be free to kill all the zoners he wants. And I still think the phone convo at the end of Beast was b.s. and just an excuse for Chloe to keep Davis.
 
I'm not sure why everyone is hating Chloe right now. From my point of view I think it's obvious that she's doing everything for Clark's sake. She's a true friend who is sacrificing her own life to protect Clark.
Her nightmare at the start of this episode proves what her biggest fear is....Clark dead!

Ahh, but you can't discount the beginning of that fantasy/nightmare. Chloe's very real attraction and desire for Davis - even knowing that he's a murderer - is made extremely clear.

Her later claim that she is doing "all this for Clark" is a half-truth at best, and an outright lie at worst.

Chloe has had far too many opportunities to be truthful with Clark about Davis, but she's made her choice to protect Davis. Sure, she can try and convince herself that she's doing this to protect Clark, but really, wouldn't locking Davis away in the PZ have been the much more sensible option for protecting Clark? As opposed to allowing him to roam the country with only her mortal self to supposedly keep him in check?

Chloe's not stupid, she didn't WANT Davis locked away, and it had nothing to do with thinking Clark would never forgive himself. The fact that she even said that to him was just...wow.

Davis made a calculated decision to switch from murdering Jimmy to murdering Ollie. The key here is that he wasn't DOOMSDAY when he made that decision - he was still Davis Bloom (just really sweaty). To justify that with him simply trying to control the beast is basically saying I'm going to commit murder now, so that I don't murder anyone later. Which is deep in wtf territory.

This really is shining a terrible and revealing light on Chloe. Characters often end up doing things that you might not like - Lois making up the Stiletto story, Lana holding Lionel prisoner, etc. - but just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

The difference here, as I see it, is I'm not sure how they can ever bring Chloe back from this. Lois was shown to fully regret her actions and learn from them, Lana was shown to admit she was teetering on a dark edge and willfully pulled herself back. Chloe is endangering THE PLANET, not to mention harboring the one creature who can kill Clark. It's too far out there for a comeback, IMO, but I suspect they will try.

And of course, Clark will forgive her, because he's Clark and that's what he does.

I'm almost tempted to check out TWOP just to see if the lemmings are all lined up on the cliff's edge. But, naaah. I'm sure they are somehow going to twist all this into being Clark's fault, or maybe even Lana's. Old habits die hard. :D
 
It wasn't because she's trying to save Clark. If she really wanted to, she would have let Clark send Davis to the PZ where he can run around and be free to kill all the zoners he wants.
Where Doomsday can run around and be free to kill all the zoners he wants, not Davis. Davis wants to be human. In 'a world without Chloe', Davis would cease to exist, which is why he refused to go willingly and why Chloe is angry at Clark. He doesn't want to kill Davis with his own hands, but Clark's willing to sacrifice the human side of him anyway by sending him to the PZ. I think Clark realises this, which is why he let them go at the Fortress.
 
This "Davis Bloom" character is really getting in the way of Doomsday lol. Just let him go to the PZ and kill till he passes out from joy.
 
2bh it would have been cool if he was sent to the phantom zone and there had been a rift between Clark and chloe and then at the end of the series Oliver and his gang of sceintist report cosmic interferences in space indicating Doomsday is ripping open the phantom zone or Zod had freed him.
 
Ahh, but you can't discount the beginning of that fantasy/nightmare. Chloe's very real attraction and desire for Davis - even knowing that he's a murderer - is made extremely clear.

Her later claim that she is doing "all this for Clark" is a half-truth at best, and an outright lie at worst.

Chloe has had far too many opportunities to be truthful with Clark about Davis, but she's made her choice to protect Davis. Sure, she can try and convince herself that she's doing this to protect Clark, but really, wouldn't locking Davis away in the PZ have been the much more sensible option for protecting Clark? As opposed to allowing him to roam the country with only her mortal self to supposedly keep him in check?

Chloe's not stupid, she didn't WANT Davis locked away, and it had nothing to do with thinking Clark would never forgive himself. The fact that she even said that to him was just...wow.

Davis made a calculated decision to switch from murdering Jimmy to murdering Ollie. The key here is that he wasn't DOOMSDAY when he made that decision - he was still Davis Bloom (just really sweaty). To justify that with him simply trying to control the beast is basically saying I'm going to commit murder now, so that I don't murder anyone later. Which is deep in wtf territory.

This really is shining a terrible and revealing light on Chloe. Characters often end up doing things that you might not like - Lois making up the Stiletto story, Lana holding Lionel prisoner, etc. - but just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

The difference here, as I see it, is I'm not sure how they can ever bring Chloe back from this. Lois was shown to fully regret her actions and learn from them, Lana was shown to admit she was teetering on a dark edge and willfully pulled herself back. Chloe is endangering THE PLANET, not to mention harboring the one creature who can kill Clark. It's too far out there for a comeback, IMO, but I suspect they will try.

And of course, Clark will forgive her, because he's Clark and that's what he does.

I'm almost tempted to check out TWOP just to see if the lemmings are all lined up on the cliff's edge. But, naaah. I'm sure they are somehow going to twist all this into being Clark's fault, or maybe even Lana's. Old habits die hard. :D

I'm not a Chloe fan but i think people are being a bit harsh towards her, i'll reserve judgement to see how everything plays out. I know how i feel when people jump on Clark, so I'll just say Chloe is heading towards a fast bottom and in way over her head and is making some terrible mistakes, but i don't feel her intentions are malicious and if she does have feelings for Davis then I understand wanting to protect him against her better judgement, even if its a losing battle.
 
I'm not a Chloe fan but i think people are being a bit harsh towards her, i'll reserve judgement to see how everything plays out.

I've never been much of a Chloe fan, but I've actually enjoyed her more this season than ever. But still, within the context of this story arc, her character is crossing some serious lines that she's never crossed before. It's rather stunning, and I can imagine that people who are die-hard Chloe fans might be reeling a bit. As a Lana fan... been there, done that - although not to this extreme perhaps.

I know how i feel when people jump on Clark, so I'll just say Chloe is heading towards a fast bottom and in way over her head and is making some terrible mistakes, but i don't feel her intentions are malicious and if she does have feelings for Davis then I understand wanting to protect him against her better judgement, even if its a losing battle.

I don't think she's being intentionally malicious, but the results of what she is doing certainly may be. She is being incredibly irresponsible though, and I can't see how her feelings towards Davis justify in any way what she is doing, although it does make her actions more understandable.

I think there's a lot that can be said, interpreted, assumed about Chloe's motivations in this episode, even beyond her feelings for Davis. If nothing else, it's certainly shaken things up a bit in SV land.
 
I'm not a Chloe fan but i think people are being a bit harsh towards her, i'll reserve judgement to see how everything plays out. I know how i feel when people jump on Clark, so I'll just say Chloe is heading towards a fast bottom and in way over her head and is making some terrible mistakes, but i don't feel her intentions are malicious and if she does have feelings for Davis then I understand wanting to protect him against her better judgement, even if its a losing battle.

I think I agree with this. I've always been a massive Chloe fan because she has always been such a strong supporter of Clark. She would do anything for him but I do have to agree that she's making mistakes at the minute (even if in her mind she's making them for the right reasons). I really hope they sort this mess out because I've always hoped that Chloe would eventually be sent off well i.e. dies protecting Clark. We'll have to wait and see
 
I'm not sure why everyone is hating Chloe right now. From my point of view I think it's obvious that she's doing everything for Clark's sake. She's a true friend who is sacrificing her own life to protect Clark.
Her nightmare at the start of this episode proves what her biggest fear is....Clark dead!
You can also tell from her body language, the way that she's acting and the things that she's saying that she's doing all this for the right reasons.
Chloe has said on more than one occation that she would die for Clark and she is proving right now that she'd do anything for him.

I couldn't have said it any better myself :up:
 
the only way to redeem chloe at this point would be to sacrifice Davis for the better of the planet or sacrifice herself. If she sacrifices Davis, she can still redeem herself although there may be tension between her and Clark and JL in next season. I don't think her death is the only way to redeem herself but if she keeps going down this path, then that's what will happen.
 

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