Comics A great article on how marvel destroyed Spider-man.

savemarvel

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From http://www.nowplayingmag.com/content/view/4041/


Not-So-Friendly Neighborhood Blog

Written by Arnold T. Blumberg

This fledgling little blog got some attention weeks back when I talked about my feelings regarding Marvel’s big event series, Civil War. Unfortunately, today I feel worse. And that’s because this is now about more than just a dark, brooding story about superhero schisms and governmental manipulation. Now it’s about a fundamental betrayal of Marvel’s flagship character and the core ideals that have shaped his personality for over 40 years. Now it’s personal. Now it’s about Spider-Man.

As everybody in comicdom knows, Peter Parker has revealed himself to the world as Spider-Man after some perfunctory soul-searching as part of the ongoing storyline involving his alliance with Tony Stark and the impending registration of all superheroes by the government. I’ve been reading about Spider-Man for over 30 years, and like other long-time fans I feel pretty secure about my perception of the character and the intrinsic traits that make him such an indelible pop culture icon. So I have no qualms about saying that Peter Parker simply wouldn’t do this. It just doesn’t ring true. All it does is leave a very bad taste in my mouth, and it convinces me more than ever – as if I needed more convincing – that Marvel has forgotten what makes their most popular character the man he is.
To be fair, Civil War isn’t entirely to blame; things were already going awry when Peter, Mary Jane and Aunt May (!) moved in with the Avengers. The perennial loner, whose previous flirtations with Avengers membership were always amusing jaunts meant to underline just what an individual Spidey remains, is now a card-carrying member of the establishment, which also doesn’t make any sense. Add to that the fact that he now seems less an independent thinker – a man with a strong moral streak and firm ethical convictions – and more the lapdog of an arms developer/millionaire/occasional alcoholic with a suit of armor and a clearly corrupt agenda, and I can safely lay the Spider-Man I once knew to rest. I don’t know where Peter Parker went, but he left the building a long time ago.

If the web-spinner was going to ally himself with anyone, it would have been Captain America. Throughout the history of the Marvel Universe, Spidey has never shown any particular tendency to respect or admire Iron Man/Tony Stark, but he has repeatedly shown extraordinary awe and respect for the WWII icon. Cap is unquestionably the moral center of the Marvel U., and if he has chosen to go underground in defiance of the government and his metallic former colleague, there’s no doubt in my mind that based on everything I ever knew about Parker, our favorite wall-crawler would follow the shield-toting legend to Hell and back. So who’s this guy in the ugly armored spider-suit: Ben Reilly?
Meanwhile, in another corner of the Marvel Universe, The Only Marvel Comic I Can Still Stomach Reading on a Regular Basis ™ is being cancelled…again. Spider-Girl by Tom DeFalco (bless this man) is perhaps the single greatest thing that Marvel publishes, a perfect distillation of the original spirit that infused all of Stan, Steve and Jack’s early ‘60s work. Set in a near future in which Peter and Mary Jane have a teenaged daughter May, a girl with all of her old man’s neuroses and the responsibility of carrying dad’s Spider-legacy forward, the title is retro and modern at the same time. It embraces the simple (but by no means simplistic) storytelling of those halcyon days with the brilliant substitution of a female lead and a powerful respect for the history of the Spider-saga even as it pushes that saga into all new and exciting directions. It’s sharply illustrated, page-turning fun…and for some reason, it’s always been teetering on annihilation. With the arrival of #100, it looks like Spider-Girl’s web-spinning days are at an end, at least temporarily.

So why do we get endless ‘events’ like Civil War, in which an imposter posing as our Peter Parker – a shadow of Spider-Man every bit as offensive as the clone that derailed things in the ‘90s – betrays everything that Peter stands for, while a faithful but fresh take on the Spider-mythos like Spider-Girl is treated so shabbily? Is Civil War really what kids want from their superheroes? Is the day really over when superheroes are about escapism and high-flying adventure, offering the one refuge from reality where good is good, evil is evil, the lines are clearly drawn and justice always prevails? Or have we become so aged and cynical that we’d rather see our heroes dragged through the mud, turned into morally and ethically conflicted shadows that have forgotten everything that made them heroic while they bicker and argue about regulations and loyalties?
There’s always room for a different take on superheroes, and there’s absolutely room for Civil War and Spider-Girl, no matter what I may think about the treatment of Parker’s character in the former. But dammit, if one of them has to go, I know which one I’d pick for oblivion. Life’s too short; I’d rather have superheroes fly me into the stratosphere than mire me in the legislative muck. And I’d rather have the real Spider-Man back.



 
Do you really want yourself to belive this is Ben Reilly, and not Peter Parker?
 
remember back when peter parker went to great links to hide his secret id? but if you look around marvel's revealing a lot of identities lately.daredevil, capt. america,etc. this was bound to happen.it does now open up for all the villains to get revenge story lines.and what about j j jameson? save marvel is right, peter parker would never do this.i stuck around for the clones ,so ill get through this.
 
I do. Yes. I do.


I admit. I don't know a thing about Ben Reilly. I don't know a thing about the original clone saga. But I hope it's not really Parker.. and I want Iron Man to get his ass kicked.

That's all.
 
Ben's taste in costumes was way to good, to be caught wearing that monstrosity :o
 
Written by Arnold T. Blumberg

I’ve been reading about Spider-Man for over 30 years, and like other long-time fans I feel pretty secure about my perception of the character and the intrinsic traits that make him such an indelible pop culture icon.

Unfortunately, that's where the argument might as well have ended.

Marvel doesn't care about the opinions or nostalgic attachment to continuity of some Gen-X thirtysomething like Mr. Blumberg (or me for that matter). Joe Q and Avi Arad know that most of the younger mainstream readers they are targeting care only about basic stuff like "Spider-Man has a secret identity, and whoa...! He's revealing who he is now! I'll buy that comic!" Most teen Spidey fans don't give a crap about Spidey's past admiration of Captain America, they will just respond to any eye-grabbing stunt-storyline. So that's what Marvel's giving everyone.

Is this unfortunate? I certainly think so. But like it or not, Marvel realizes that comic book sales are once again in a state of uncertain flux due to various other higher-tech time-wasting diversions competing for the attention and money of the mainstream teen and college age demographic.
 
The Lizard said:
Unfortunately, that's where the argument might as well have ended.

Marvel doesn't care about the opinions or nostalgic attachment to continuity of some Gen-X thirtysomething like Mr. Blumberg (or me for that matter). Joe Q and Avi Arad know that most of the younger mainstream readers they are targeting care only about basic stuff like "Spider-Man has a secret identity, and whoa...! He's revealing who he is now! I'll buy that comic!" Most teen Spidey fans don't give a crap about Spidey's past admiration of Captain America, they will just respond to any eye-grabbing stunt-storyline. So that's what Marvel's giving everyone.

Is this unfortunate? I certainly think so. But like it or not, Marvel realizes that comic book sales are once again in a state of uncertain flux due to various other higher-tech time-wasting diversions competing for the attention and money of the mainstream teen and college age demographic.

And its going to bite Marvel in the ass big time.
 
blah blah blah marvel sucks now blah blah blah ruining spider-man blah blah blah same old crap everyone has been saying


that's pretty much what I got from that
 
Well if so many people (myself included) are thinking that there must be some truth in that...
 
Doc_OCK_4MUGEN said:
Well if so many people (myself included) are thinking that there must be some truth in that...

There is a lot of truth in that.
 
gildea said:
How many people think that?

A lot of people feel that way. At my comic book shop, people are dropping the spider-man titles like crazy after what happen and even a few of them are dropping the civil war series as well.

BTW, Great article.
 
trapjaw said:
A lot of people feel that way. At my comic book shop, people are dropping the spider-man titles like crazy after what happen and even a few of them are dropping the civil war series as well.

BTW, Great article.

A lot isn't a number.

Sales on spidey titles have actually increased recently.


BTW (just so i don't come off as a complete ass) I'm not saying I disagree with what people are saying here (i'm sort of in the middle) I think people are assuming that their opinions are more representitive of the spidey fan base than they actuall are.

:)
 
gildea said:
A lot isn't a number.

Sales on spidey titles have actually increased recently.


:)

Actually there is a backlash towards the Spider-Man books . My comic dealer told me that a lot of people are asking him to take Spider-Man off their pull list because of what is happening with Civil War. You will not see the decline now but you will see it.
 
The blog doesnt even make good points. tomorrow, when i can be bothered im gonna tear it apart. I believe spider-man isnt at his best and i dont like JQ, but saying spider-man is destroyed makes me angry. u wont like me when im angry.
 
savemarvel said:
Actually there is a backlash towards the Spider-Man books . My comic dealer told me that a lot of people are asking him to take Spider-Man off their pull list because of what is happening with Civil War. You will not see the decline now but you will see it.


You're wrong. i dont care about your LCS, but people are getting into comics through the recent spider-man unmasking. its good for the industry, even if maybe not for the character (tho i think im decided that i like it now). civil war is selling out and people are asking about spider-man. putting spidey on a cover still makes the sales boost big time. Why else is he on the front cover of beyond!??
 
MyPokerShirt said:
You're wrong. i dont care about your LCS, but people are getting into comics through the recent spider-man unmasking. its good for the industry, even if maybe not for the character (tho i think im decided that i like it now). civil war is selling out and people are asking about spider-man. putting spidey on a cover still makes the sales boost big time. Why else is he on the front cover of beyond!??

Really? That's why Marvel did a whole press conference today to assure fans about the changes that Spider-Man is going though, almost a month after the unmasking happen. That does not sound like a company that is confident about its decisions.

Please, do try to blow holes in the article because personally, i don't think you can.
 
lol! awwwwe, don't challenge me like that.civil war #2 is one of the fastest selling comics ever. so yes, really.
 
gildea said:
How many people think that?

I certainly do, and the blog also captures my feelings about Spider-Girl.

I dropped the regular Spider-Man titles with "Sins Past," and I strongly doubt I will be reading them again until at the very least Axel Alonzo is gone.

Marvel will see huge sales increases in the short run. But when the curious go away, as they quickly will, Spider-Man's numbers will be in a world of hurt. Funny, but for someone who goes out of his way to bash the clone saga, Joey Q seems eager to plunge himself into an even worse mess.
 
MyPokerShirt said:
lol! awwwwe, don't challenge me like that.civil war #2 is one of the fastest selling comics ever. so yes, really.

Is that the only argument you have? Please.. you don't know what the hell you are talking about.:thing:
 
Jeffers said:
I certainly do, and the blog also captures my feelings about Spider-Girl.

I dropped the regular Spider-Man titles with "Sins Past," and I strongly doubt I will be reading them again until at the very least Axel Alonzo is gone.

Marvel will see huge sales increases in the short run. But when the curious go away, as they quickly will, Spider-Man's numbers will be in a world of hurt. Funny, but for someone who goes out of his way to bash the clone saga, Joey Q seems eager to plunge himself into an even worse mess.

I agree with what you said and it seems to me that Joe Q does not know on what the hell he is doing.
 
Simple premise. My stuff's in red. I'm a bit tired so sorry if i have messed up sentences etc. i'll try and change it later. I'm not trying to start an argument here :o Just try and keep things civil, yeah?

savemarvel said:
From http://www.nowplayingmag.com/content/view/4041/


Not-So-Friendly Neighborhood Blog

Written by Arnold T. Blumberg

This fledgling little blog got some attention weeks back when I talked about my feelings regarding Marvel’s big event series, Civil War. Unfortunately, today I feel worse. And that’s because this is now about more than just a dark, brooding story about superhero schisms and governmental manipulation. Now it’s about a fundamental betrayal of Marvel’s flagship character and the core ideals that have shaped his personality for over 40 years. Now it’s personal. Now it’s about Spider-Man.

As everybody in comicdom knows, Peter Parker has revealed himself to the world as Spider-Man after some perfunctory soul-searching as part of the ongoing storyline involving his alliance with Tony Stark and the impending registration of all superheroes by the government. I’ve been reading about Spider-Man for over 30 years, and like other long-time fans I feel pretty secure about my perception of the character and the intrinsic traits that make him such an indelible pop culture icon. So I have no qualms about saying that Peter Parker simply wouldn’t do this. It just doesn’t ring true. All it does is leave a very bad taste in my mouth, and it convinces me more than ever – as if I needed more convincing – that Marvel has forgotten what makes their most popular character the man he is.
To be fair, Civil War isn’t entirely to blame; things were already going awry when Peter, Mary Jane and Aunt May (!) moved in with the Avengers. The perennial loner, whose previous flirtations with Avengers membership were always amusing jaunts meant to underline just what an individual Spidey remains, is now a card-carrying member of the establishment, which also doesn’t make any sense. --whoa! how does a powerful superhero who feels he has a responsibility to do good, AND one whom hates being hated, not make sense in a government-backed super team. We all knew this wasn't going to be permanent, but i for one feel this is part of his necessary and natural service to the greater good. Add to that the fact that he now seems less an independent thinker – a man with a strong moral streak and firm ethical convictions – and more the lapdog of an arms developer/millionaire/occasional alcoholic with a suit of armor and a clearly corrupt agenda, and I can safely lay the Spider-Man I once knew to rest. -- read the latest issue of amazing. He points out that Stark is only called "boss" as tongue in cheek, which was its original intention (if since then some writers blurred its use.) and he grows back some balls. In fact if you look at it the unmasking was the first time he played lacky. Going to washington with, accepting a million-dollar prototype from, and accepting a place to live when you have none, from a millionaire scientist who is a generation above your own makes sense to me.I don’t know where Peter Parker went, but he left the building a long time ago.

If the web-spinner was going to ally himself with anyone, it would have been Captain America. But then he leaves behind his scientific roots, which so many of you long for him to rediscover. He also no longer has that security for the wife you guys want him to have so much. Or security for that aunt that keeps him tied to the classic past you love. Throughout the history of the Marvel Universe, Spidey has never shown any particular tendency to respect or admire Iron Man/Tony Stark, but he has repeatedly shown extraordinary awe and respect for the WWII icon. Well who in the marvel U DOESNT respect Cap -- he's the freakin living legend!Doesn't mean pete has any particular ties with him. Cap is unquestionably the moral center of the Marvel U., and if he has chosen to go underground in defiance of the government and his metallic former colleague, there’s no doubt in my mind that based on everything I ever knew about Parker, our favorite wall-crawler would follow the shield-toting legend to Hell and back.Yeah cos going to hell is soooo much more responsible :p You seem to think you're either dealing with an immortal - i.e. someone who can afford to be on the run from the law - or bucky-- caps lacky. You're not. It made sense (to me, at least) for peter to side with tony, the rich scientist guy, who can provide security and let him obey the law still.Plus therin lies his links with the scientific community. It doesnt make sense for him to unmask, FINE, i'll concede that. Plus if he knew what tony was up to he'd change sides - which he will. You know all this, there have been MASSIVE hints about pete reconsidering. In fact, why are you moaning about this?? Why not sins past or the clone saga?? wait, what's waiting for me below...So who’s this guy in the ugly armored spider-suit: Ben Reilly?Oooo, there it is.Honestly didn't know that shot was coming.lol.
Meanwhile, in another corner of the Marvel Universe, The Only Marvel Comic I Can Still Stomach Reading on a Regular Basis ™ is being cancelled…again.Then you're seriously missing out on some good stuff and, like so many, are clearly overreacting. Your very name is save marvel -- from what?? Oh no, marvel have some bad books!! :o How DARE they make mistakes. nevermind the current state of affairs is STILL the best its been in the last 10 years, and i should know, i gave up cos it got that bad. But im back :) and that has to tell you something. Spider-Girl by Tom DeFalco (bless this man) is perhaps the single greatest thing that Marvel publishes, a perfect distillation of the original spirit that infused all of Stan, Steve and Jack’s early ‘60s work. As much as im gonna give it another shot at the relaunch and will be buying the concluding issue next week (it is next week right?), it harks back to the 60s TOO much. The stories are simplistic and cheesy in MC2, its the way they are The all ages feel put me off. The latest story isn't that bad, but what you seem to want to do -- regress titles to the 60s, doesnt sit too well with me. You're sounding too much like JQ, the guy you (should) hate so much becuase of "marvel's current state". Set in a near future in which Peter and Mary Jane have a teenaged daughter May, a girl with all of her old man’s neuroses and the responsibility of carrying dad’s Spider-legacy forward, the title is retro and modern at the same time. It embraces the simple (but by no means simplistic) -- I'm afraid (As i already pointed out) MC2's only criticism is that yes it can be too simplistic -- too ALL AGES. storytelling of those halcyon days with the brilliant substitution of a female lead and a powerful respect for the history of the Spider-saga even as it pushes that saga into all new and exciting directions. It’s sharply illustrated, page-turning fun…and for some reason, it’s always been teetering on annihilation.Um... sales, sales, sales, sales. Yes they're alright, but not up-to-issue-100 alright by marvel's standard.Hopefully this'll improve. With the arrival of #100, it looks like Spider-Girl’s web-spinning days are at an end, at least temporarily. It kind of annoys me you've decided to moan about this. It IS GOING TO BE BACK.We already know this. Be happy! Don't moan! Smile :) lol.

So why do we get endless ‘events’ like Civil War --cos it sells. That's cynical, but its also a good read. You can't tell me you've not enjoyed any of Civil War., in which an imposter posing as our Peter Parker – a shadow of Spider-Man every bit as offensive as the clone that derailed things in the ‘90s --no, no, no --– betrays everything that Peter stands for, while a faithful but fresh take on the Spider-mythos like Spider-Girl is treated so shabbily?-- IT WILL get a big relaunch. maybe notbig enough for you but it WILL-- Is Civil War really what kids want from their superheroes? -- You don't have children do you?? No child has ever gone "who'd win out of super-hero-A or super-hero-B?", have they. Course they have. The series is a kids wet dream (urgh, that sounds wrong).--Is the day really over when superheroes are about escapism and high-flying adventure, offering the one refuge from reality where good is good, evil is evil, the lines are clearly drawn and justice always prevails?Maybe because the world doesnt work that way and most readers want something vaguely believable, not a medium that judges, ignoring all shades of grey. Shades of grey that peter parker is struggling with at this moment in comics. Or have we become so aged and cynical that we’d rather see our heroes dragged through the mud, turned into morally and ethically conflicted shadows that have forgotten everything that made them heroic while they bicker and argue about regulations and loyalties?You really havnt read any civil war have you? It's not a local council meet, its a comic book. There has been action, humour, good dialogue, serious debate and some kick-ass stuff, i promise you. and we have so much more to come :)
There’s always room for a different take on superheroes, and there’s absolutely room for Civil War and Spider-Girl, no matter what I may think about the treatment of Parker’s character in the former. But dammit, if one of them has to go, I know which one I’d pick for oblivion.Which is why you don't run Marvel Comics and thank God for that. Life’s too short; I’d rather have superheroes fly me into the stratosphere than mire me in the legislative muck. Again, what have YOU been reading?? The most vicious complaint against civil War is that the Registration Bill has NOT been explained fully enough, so some people are still confused..And I’d rather have the real Spider-Man back. He hasn't gone anywhere as far as i'm concerned. Through all the bad storylines and "variations" of his character we have seen from different writers down the years, the real Peter Parker shines through. Whether you like where the comic books are at the moment (ignoring sins past, etc and just looking at the current suit and civil war), the real Peter Parker will show through [and he'll kick Iron Man's ass ;)]
 
savemarvel said:
Is that the only argument you have? Please.. you don't know what the hell you are talking about.:thing:

**** you, dont get arsey with me. just saying the press conference wasnt an assurance, as if they were worried about spider-man's books collapsing. It was more of a promotion cos they know they can milk sales from this.
 

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