Comics A great article on how marvel destroyed Spider-man.

“--whoa! how does a powerful superhero who feels he has a responsibility to do good, AND one whom hates being hated, not make sense in a government-backed super team. We all knew this wasn't going to be permanent, but i for one feel this is part of his necessary and natural service to the greater good..”

Peter has grown up over the years and has learned from his mistakes. With all the run In's he have had with is enemies to the way the press had demonise him, Peter of all people would have known better than to unmask, despite the presser he was receiving from Stark or the government. The Peter we all know would have never put his family or his friends in jeopardy over what was going on. The Peter Parker who has unmasked in Civil War is not the Peter Parker we know and that in itself is a disgrace.


"”read the latest issue of amazing. He points out that Stark is only called "boss" as tongue in cheek, which was its original intention (if since then some writers blurred its use.)and he grows back some balls. In fact if you look at itthe unmasking was the first time he played lacky. Going to washington with, accepting a million-dollar prototype from, and accepting a place to live when you have none, from a millionaire scientist who is a generation above your own makes sense to me"

The spider-Man we know would have never been a stooge for Stark or the Avengers and he would have kept his family away from what he was doing. As for his mistakes, he has learned before about what could happen when the wrong person finds out his secret identity, and with him just unmaking to the public makes absolutely no sense what so ever and it goes against his total character as a man, as a hero and as a human being.


“Then you're seriously missing out on some good stuff and, like so many, are clearly overreacting. Your very name is save marvel -- from what?? Oh no, marvel have some bad books!! How DARE they make mistakes. nevermind the current state of affairs is STILL the best its been in the last 10 years, and i should know, i gave up cos it got that bad. But im back and that has to tell you something”

I did not write the article and you coming back to comic books does not tell me anything other than the fact that you sound like a plaint for Marvel.

"But then he leaves behind his scientific roots, which so many of you long for him to rediscover. He also no longer has that security for the wife you guys want him to have so much. Or security for that aunt that keeps him tied to the classic past you love."

The Spider-Man we all know would never let fear stop him from doing the right thing and he would have never caved to pressure from anybody to revel his identity, regardless of what might happen to him. He was smart enough to know the real ramifications of reveling his identity to the public and the responsibility to his family and friends to keep them safe. He would have found a way to hide Mary Jane and his aunt

"Well who in the marvel U DOESNT respect Cap -- he's the freakin living legend!Doesn't mean pete has any particular ties with him."

You don’t know your Spider-Man history do you?

"Yeah cos going to hell is soooo much more responsible You seem to think you're either dealing with an immortal - i.e. someone who can afford to be on the run from the law - or bucky-- caps lacky. You're not. It made sense (to me, at least) for peter to side with tony, the rich scientist guy, who can provide security and let him obey the law still.Plus therin lies his links with the scientific community. It doesnt make sense for him to unmask, FINE, i'll concede that. Plus if he knew what tony was up to he'd change sides - which he will. You know all this, there have been MASSIVE hints about pete reconsidering. In fact, why are you moaning about this?? Why not sins past or the clone saga?? wait, what's waiting for me below.."

The real Spider-man would have never have chosen Stark over his family and his responsibility. He would have saw right though Stark and would have join the resistance. What Spider-Man did in Civil war was totally out of character and it goes against everything he stood for over the years.

i was right, you could not take part this article.
 
savemarvel said:
Actually there is a backlash towards the Spider-Man books . My comic dealer told me that a lot of people are asking him to take Spider-Man off their pull list because of what is happening with Civil War. You will not see the decline now but you will see it.

When?

Technically you should see a decline after civil war anyway, as people who were only picking it up due to the cross over stop getting it.

I'm not arguing the article per se, just the suggestion that spidey is about to go into free fall in sales.

What I will say when people start talking about "real spider-man" or character would "never do this" you know you're in trouble. These are fictional characters that at times have to serve the story and as such can do pretty much anything. People have to consider they are not the personal guardians of these characters and just because you don't like a story line doesn't make it wrong. Why people feel the need to add 'weight' to their opinions by claiming something is 'wrong' is beyond me. Insecurity maybe?
 
savemarvel said:
From http://www.nowplayingmag.com/content/view/4041/


Not-So-Friendly Neighborhood Blog

Written by Arnold T. Blumberg

This fledgling little blog got some attention weeks back when I talked about my feelings regarding Marvel’s big event series, Civil War. Unfortunately, today I feel worse. And that’s because this is now about more than just a dark, brooding story about superhero schisms and governmental manipulation. Now it’s about a fundamental betrayal of Marvel’s flagship character and the core ideals that have shaped his personality for over 40 years. Now it’s personal. Now it’s about Spider-Man.

As everybody in comicdom knows, Peter Parker has revealed himself to the world as Spider-Man after some perfunctory soul-searching as part of the ongoing storyline involving his alliance with Tony Stark and the impending registration of all superheroes by the government. I’ve been reading about Spider-Man for over 30 years, and like other long-time fans I feel pretty secure about my perception of the character and the intrinsic traits that make him such an indelible pop culture icon. So I have no qualms about saying that Peter Parker simply wouldn’t do this. It just doesn’t ring true. All it does is leave a very bad taste in my mouth, and it convinces me more than ever – as if I needed more convincing – that Marvel has forgotten what makes their most popular character the man he is.
To be fair, Civil War isn’t entirely to blame; things were already going awry when Peter, Mary Jane and Aunt May (!) moved in with the Avengers. The perennial loner, whose previous flirtations with Avengers membership were always amusing jaunts meant to underline just what an individual Spidey remains, is now a card-carrying member of the establishment, which also doesn’t make any sense. Add to that the fact that he now seems less an independent thinker – a man with a strong moral streak and firm ethical convictions – and more the lapdog of an arms developer/millionaire/occasional alcoholic with a suit of armor and a clearly corrupt agenda, and I can safely lay the Spider-Man I once knew to rest. I don’t know where Peter Parker went, but he left the building a long time ago.

If the web-spinner was going to ally himself with anyone, it would have been Captain America. Throughout the history of the Marvel Universe, Spidey has never shown any particular tendency to respect or admire Iron Man/Tony Stark, but he has repeatedly shown extraordinary awe and respect for the WWII icon. Cap is unquestionably the moral center of the Marvel U., and if he has chosen to go underground in defiance of the government and his metallic former colleague, there’s no doubt in my mind that based on everything I ever knew about Parker, our favorite wall-crawler would follow the shield-toting legend to Hell and back. So who’s this guy in the ugly armored spider-suit: Ben Reilly?
Meanwhile, in another corner of the Marvel Universe, The Only Marvel Comic I Can Still Stomach Reading on a Regular Basis ™ is being cancelled…again. Spider-Girl by Tom DeFalco (bless this man) is perhaps the single greatest thing that Marvel publishes, a perfect distillation of the original spirit that infused all of Stan, Steve and Jack’s early ‘60s work. Set in a near future in which Peter and Mary Jane have a teenaged daughter May, a girl with all of her old man’s neuroses and the responsibility of carrying dad’s Spider-legacy forward, the title is retro and modern at the same time. It embraces the simple (but by no means simplistic) storytelling of those halcyon days with the brilliant substitution of a female lead and a powerful respect for the history of the Spider-saga even as it pushes that saga into all new and exciting directions. It’s sharply illustrated, page-turning fun…and for some reason, it’s always been teetering on annihilation. With the arrival of #100, it looks like Spider-Girl’s web-spinning days are at an end, at least temporarily.

So why do we get endless ‘events’ like Civil War, in which an imposter posing as our Peter Parker – a shadow of Spider-Man every bit as offensive as the clone that derailed things in the ‘90s – betrays everything that Peter stands for, while a faithful but fresh take on the Spider-mythos like Spider-Girl is treated so shabbily? Is Civil War really what kids want from their superheroes? Is the day really over when superheroes are about escapism and high-flying adventure, offering the one refuge from reality where good is good, evil is evil, the lines are clearly drawn and justice always prevails? Or have we become so aged and cynical that we’d rather see our heroes dragged through the mud, turned into morally and ethically conflicted shadows that have forgotten everything that made them heroic while they bicker and argue about regulations and loyalties?
There’s always room for a different take on superheroes, and there’s absolutely room for Civil War and Spider-Girl, no matter what I may think about the treatment of Parker’s character in the former. But dammit, if one of them has to go, I know which one I’d pick for oblivion. Life’s too short; I’d rather have superheroes fly me into the stratosphere than mire me in the legislative muck. And I’d rather have the real Spider-Man back.





Amen.
 
gildea said:
When?

Technically you should see a decline after civil war anyway, as people who were only picking it up due to the cross over stop getting it.

I'm not arguing the article per se, just the suggestion that spidey is about to go into free fall in sales.

What I will say when people start talking about "real spider-man" or character would "never do this" you know you're in trouble. These are fictional characters that at times have to serve the story and as such can do pretty much anything. People have to consider they are not the personal guardians of these characters and just because you don't like a story line doesn't make it wrong. Why people feel the need to add 'weight' to their opinions by claiming something is 'wrong' is beyond me. Insecurity maybe?

And what is your part in all this other than to try to insult the fans of the character? Stupidity maybe?

If you don't like the fact that people are angry over what Marvel did to the character then that's your problem, not mine or anyone else.:spidey:
 
Savemarvel, you are wasting your breath with those two. They're the latest MARVEL IS TEH OWNZ guys.
 
Doc Destruction said:
Savemarvel, you are wasting your breath with those two. They're the latest MARVEL IS TEH OWNZ guys.

I notice that:)
 
savemarvel said:
And what is your part in all this other than to try to insult the fans of the character? Stupidity maybe?

If you don't like the fact that people are angry over what Marvel did to the character then that's your problem, not mine or anyone else.:spidey:


I insulted no one sir. My part was to point out the claims of a decline of sales in spidey and CW where objectively wrong, regardless of what statistically insignificant stuff someones LCS claims.

Anyway I'm indifferent to peoples opinion. I just don't care for people claiming it is more than opinion is all.

:)
 
savemarvel said:
I did not write the article and you coming back to comic books does not tell me anything other than the fact that you sound like a plaint for Marvel.


You don’t know your Spider-Man history do you?


i was right, you could not take part this article.

you are the biggest prick going, u know that? i didnt get personal at all with you, but you can't seem to handle anyone disagreeing with you. You're pathetic. Its all simply a matter of opinion and i expressed mine. The comic industry is in better condition now than its been in 10 years. FACT. all i tried to illustrate before was how tried giving up marvel, came back to comics through independents and ended up at marvel again cos of how good their comics have been. spider-man has been in a bit of a mess, but you are seriously hyped up and SCREWED up over this. chill, man. As for the spider-man history what are you on about?? I have read so many stories where heroes meet cap and are full of admiration for him. even ol' loner logan and a norse god. there really aren't any particular ties between pete and cap. as you said yourself, spider-man has always been a bit of a loner. hence no previous strong affiliations. it makes far more sense for poor li'l scientist pete to team up with rich big scientist tony. Writers who have been doing their job for 20years can see it, but you, a uptight upset fanboy cant? oh no, you're right, sorry, i just MUST agree with you. get off your high horse.

i really am sorry this has degraded to an argument. i just wanted to show that there is no "right" side to this (rather like the war) and you can't blindly defend your opinion with insults, matey.
 
Doc Destruction said:
Then stop reading these posts, Einstein.

sort of hard when 90% of all threads contain at least one "marvel and joey q have destroyed spider-man! he will not last another year!!!!" post in it...
 
The Joker said:
sort of hard when 90% of all threads contain at least one "marvel and joey q have destroyed spider-man! he will not last another year!!!!" post in it...

And you are somehow compelled to read such posts?
 
The Joker said:
sort of hard when 90% of all threads contain at least one "marvel and joey q have destroyed spider-man! he will not last another year!!!!" post in it...

You DID read the title of this post right?
 
MyPokerShirt said:
you are the biggest prick going, u know that? i didnt get personal at all with you, but you can't seem to handle anyone disagreeing with you. You're pathetic. Its all simply a matter of opinion and i expressed mine. The comic industry is in better condition now than its been in 10 years. FACT. all i tried to illustrate before was how tried giving up marvel, came back to comics through independents and ended up at marvel again cos of how good their comics have been. spider-man has been in a bit of a mess, but you are seriously hyped up and SCREWED up over this. chill, man. As for the spider-man history what are you on about?? I have read so many stories where heroes meet cap and are full of admiration for him. even ol' loner logan and a norse god. there really aren't any particular ties between pete and cap. as you said yourself, spider-man has always been a bit of a loner. hence no previous strong affiliations. it makes far more sense for poor li'l scientist pete to team up with rich big scientist tony. Writers who have been doing their job for 20years can see it, but you, a uptight upset fanboy cant? oh no, you're right, sorry, i just MUST agree with you. get off your high horse.

i really am sorry this has degraded to an argument. i just wanted to show that there is no "right" side to this (rather like the war) and you can't blindly defend your opinion with insults, matey.

Watch who you're calling a fanboy there, champ. Hypocrites are not cool.
 
gildea said:
I insulted no one sir. My part was to point out the claims of a decline of sales in spidey and CW where objectively wrong, regardless of what statistically insignificant stuff someones LCS claims.

Calling people insecure is an insult.

Anyway, if people's anectdotal evidence is correct about Spidey loyalists dropping the books, then the increased sales of Amazing and Civil War are coming from curious or people who don't normally read Spidey. If these newcomers don't continue to read the books once all the fuss dies down, then a decline of sales in Spidey titles may surface.

This may not be the case. I suspect it will be. Like I said, this is the clone saga all over again, only without the enhanced covers.
 
Jeffers said:
Calling people insecure is an insult.

Correct it is.
I didn't call anyone insecure. I asked a question (there is a question mark after it). Grammar dictates this isn't me calling anyone anything. Same reason I didn't consider the person replying to me as insulting when he used the word "stupidity" (though he did rather rudely dismiss someone else telling them that they "didn't know what the hell they were talking about" but thats another discussion).

Jeffers said:
Anyway, if people's anectdotal evidence is correct about Spidey loyalists dropping the books, then the increased sales of Amazing and Civil War are coming from curious or people who don't normally read Spidey. If these newcomers don't continue to read the books once all the fuss dies down, then a decline of sales in Spidey titles may surface.

This may not be the case. I suspect it will be. Like I said, this is the clone saga all over again, only without the enhanced covers.

As I said a decline is to be expected once the cross over finishes which is natural, however it was also suggested that people are cancelling their CW which may well be true but it is insignificant given that it is gaining sales.
 
gildea said:
As I said a decline is to be expected once the cross over finishes which is natural, however it was also suggested that people are cancelling their CW which may well be true but it is insignificant given that it is gaining sales.

My guess is Marvel will find the decline unnaturally large.
 
and thats a guess. its NOT shown in sales so far.sorry, but its not. i know lots of people here are pissed off, but when you consider only 40people at a time are on these comic boards, you guys don't account for too many people. i dont really know why you're starting on me for putting the other side of the argument across. i just think jackasses who think their opinion is the ONLY opinion should be shot.

Marvel isn't exactly in decline, spider-man is more popular than ever and whether you think theyre murdering the character or not there is no need to "save" spider-man and there is nothing destroyed in him, just cos you no longer recognise him as the character YOU thought he was.
 
In fact, when he turns around and joins cap and WHEN he kicks iron man's arse, are u gonna eat your words? we all know its going to happen, so really, like i said before, what is your problem here? he WILL change sides in the war. enough has been hinted at that.
 
Wow, I've never been so conflicted...

Seriously. On one hand I agree that I hate what Marvel is doing to Spidey, not the fact that he's an avenger, not the fact that he unmasked, but the fact that he's Tony Stark's lap dog. They took a character who has been comming of age over the past 40 years and sent him back to being a niave kid again. Completely trusting in this corrupt billionare, who clearly has his own agenda.

They pushed so muich in the 80's and early 90's to get Peter out of that awkward kid stage. Alot of stories revolved around his commitments as a man and so forth. And how he feels like a silly kid again. And that is what has been bothering me the most. They have him sub serviant to almost all the other super heroes like he's an inexperinced kid compared to all of them. It's really annoying.

But on the other hand, marvel has never been purely about escapism. They have been always about stories with depth. Remember they always wrote stories about heroe's that rejected thier abilites at first, or thought "how can I make money of off this?" And then a tragedy happens that makes them have to be a hero.

Marvel is trying to reflect a lot of what's going on in the modern world with the corrent civil war story line. And I actually appluade them for that effort, but there are deffinete things in this story that have left a bad taste in my mouth.


I sure hope MyPokerShirt is right and Spidey turns things around, I think he will, but he wen to far the other way at first to feel like out beloved Peter Parker of the past.

The question is has Mrvel gone too far with this story to come back from it in the end?
 
No, the question is, why the hell did he side with Iron Man when he's been shown to HIGHLY respect Cap about a million times?
 
yeah but at least agree that his repsect for cap is something not exactly unique. pete isnt going to let it blind him in doing what he thought was right. he's worked with cap and tony for months now. he's got closer to tony. i thought they wrote that in pretty clearly.ok, u dont believe it would happen. but its fiction and they went that way. i though they wrote it in pretty well, myself.
 
My opinion on the article: Meh. It's ben repeated ad nauseum on these boards, and every other comic message board out there, and it's been said better.

Do I agree with him? Yeah. I just can't bring myself to care anymore. Marvel's going to do what they want when they want to whatever character they want, and that's that. I've been incessantly complained about the status of the books since "Sins Past". I bought the books in the hopes that things would improve, and then I dropped all except Sensational after "The Other". I will soon be dropping Sensational, more likely than not, and then I will be reading no other 616 Spider-books.

Hence, why I haven't been posting here as much, lately. I just don't have the energy to keep reiterating the same tired arguments (no matter how correct they may be) in different threads over and over. The books are horrible, but people still buy them, so Marvel sees it as a success, and rightfully so. There's no reason for them to change what they're doing is people are going to pay 3 bucks a pop every month so that they can righteously b**** about them on the internet.

I WAS reading ASM in the store and just not buying them so that I could still criticise the book. Then I thought about how it wasn't cool of me to do that to me LCS owner, so I said "To hell with it", and walked away.

I don't read any of the Spider-man books aside from Sensational (which'll probably be dropped thanks to the events of CW), and that means I've done my own small part to voice my opinion about the changes. That's all I can do, shy of getting a gig at Marvel writing ASM and changing things my damn self, which I'd glady do, if it were that easy.

So, yeah, I agree with the guy, but I'm really just numbed to everything having to so with Spider-man nowadays. The teaser for Spider-Man 3 was the first time I've smiled at anything Spidey-related in awhile. I bought and read Spider-Man/Human Torch this past weekend, and I smiled and laughed myself silly. I'm reading the Essentials right-on, and they make me positively giddy at how great they are. 616 Spidey hasn't made me smile at an in-continuity story since I (heart) Marvel: Web of Romance.

I'm not going to hat eon either side of the argument, simply because neither side can change anythign so long as both sides are buying the books. I'm going to take my extra coinage per month and give it to an indy book, or put it towards a house or something. To hell with paying for s*** I don't even like.
 

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