The Dark Knight Rises Adapting Robin

[DieSmiling]

Robin should be introduced in a fourth film, if one happens. His origin should be done completely and fully in detail, with Tony Zucco extorting the circus for protection money and cutting the rope that would lead to the Grayson parents death.

Bruce should be in the front row of this charity auction, and see this kid watch his parents die. It should be done mirroring the Batman Begins flashbacks to Bruce's early days, in the same style. We get the introduction to Dick the same way as Bruce and see the paralells in their story -- only this time Bruce is put into the position of mentor to the angry youth looking for vengeance. He is torn -- he wants to tell the kid it's not the right way, but he understands the kids rage and knows he can channel it.

Hence begins a long session of training that again mirrors Bruce's training from Begins, only Dick is in Bruce's role and Bruce is in the role of Ra's. Bruce is also doing things differently, his way. I'd have him be extremely hard, and at times, a huge *****ebag.

All this time Batman has his own storylines going on -- maybe Catwoman, maybe Riddler or Penguin (adapted to Nolan's world) maybe Talia Al Ghul or returns by Ra's or Joker, whatever, but one of the films primary storylines is Bruce training and talking to Dick, which reveals alot about each of their character, and is probably the emotional core of the movie.

Bruce is about to let Dick assume the role of Robin (which needs to be given a purpose earlier in the movie) when we rip off the animated series where Zucco comes back to Gotham and Batman goes on a vigelante tear trying to find this guy -- Dick then assumes the Robin role and goes out on his own to find the guy. Robin somehow gets there first, but doesn't kill the guy when that's been his focus the whole time -- getting to Zucco so he can kill him.

I think that's the best way to do it. If you had a good actor playing Dick Grayson and Nolan put in the effort to the movie he puts into everything it could be totally sick. I'd have Dick be 15 during the flashback to his parents death and 18 at the time he first goes out and fights. It should be a Robin origin story (think a darker more intense live action Robin's Reckoning) mixed in with three or so other Batman storylines, like a romance with Catwoman or Talia and villains like Riddler or Penguin doing villanous things.

Batman is still the main-character, and the training/Robin storyline is just as much about Bruce as Dick, but I think if the focus went into making it good and realistic, there's no reason it couldn't work.

 

[GL1]

So Batman trained Alfred when he was a kid because he saw himself treflected in Pennyworth's tragedy? Man, I always miss the best issues.

Man... you actually think you're making sense don't you? I don't see sarcasm, I just see gibberish.

That's why there'd be a Robin spinoff film; to showcase Robin's solo work outside of the main continuity. Meanwhile, the supposed death of Batman would cause a riot among the fans, thus ensuring that WB would start another franchise to rectify this...and properly show the Dynamic Duo side by side on film.

I mean, they don't even do that in the comics anymore. Robin is employed in Batman's war on crime just like any other of Batman's resources, not as a shadow or silent partner. I respect the silver age, I do... but the age of Robin swinging alongside Batman here and there are LOOONG gone... and to our benefit. Robin works best as a gopher.

Robin should be introduced in a fourth film, if one happens. His origin should be done completely and fully in detail, with Tony Zucco extorting the circus for protection money and cutting the rope that would lead to the Grayson parents death.

Bruce should be in the front row of this charity auction, and see this kid watch his parents die. It should be done mirroring the Batman Begins flashbacks to Bruce's early days, in the same style. We get the introduction to Dick the same way as Bruce and see the paralells in their story -- only this time Bruce is put into the position of mentor to the angry youth looking for vengeance. He is torn -- he wants to tell the kid it's not the right way, but he understands the kids rage and knows he can channel it.

Hence begins a long session of training that again mirrors Bruce's training from Begins, only Dick is in Bruce's role and Bruce is in the role of Ra's. Bruce is also doing things differently, his way. I'd have him be extremely hard, and at times, a huge *****ebag.

All this time Batman has his own storylines going on -- maybe Catwoman, maybe Riddler or Penguin (adapted to Nolan's world) maybe Talia Al Ghul or returns by Ra's or Joker, whatever, but one of the films primary storylines is Bruce training and talking to Dick, which reveals alot about each of their character, and is probably the emotional core of the movie.

Bruce is about to let Dick assume the role of Robin (which needs to be given a purpose earlier in the movie) when we rip off the animated series where Zucco comes back to Gotham and Batman goes on a vigelante tear trying to find this guy -- Dick then assumes the Robin role and goes out on his own to find the guy. Robin somehow gets there first, but doesn't kill the guy when that's been his focus the whole time -- getting to Zucco so he can kill him.

I think that's the best way to do it. If you had a good actor playing Dick Grayson and Nolan put in the effort to the movie he puts into everything it could be totally sick. I'd have Dick be 15 during the flashback to his parents death and 18 at the time he first goes out and fights. It should be a Robin origin story (think a darker more intense live action Robin's Reckoning) mixed in with three or so other Batman storylines, like a romance with Catwoman or Talia and villains like Riddler or Penguin doing villanous things.

Batman is still the main-character, and the training/Robin storyline is just as much about Bruce as Dick, but I think if the focus went into making it good and realistic, there's no reason it couldn't work.

Interesting. I would buy an 18 year old being able to fight, swing, drive or detective anywhere near Batman's level after only three years training. If you're not starring the 15-year old, then do flashbacks to an 8-year old... do it right if you're going to do it right, y'know?

I also wouldn't rush Robin. I wouldn't even have him suit up at first, but start training him in the background as the focus stays on Batman and his main storyline for the duration... I'd have Grayson in the cave, training, getting kicked around and perhaps clueing in on the children's nursery rhyme part of a Riddler clue, or perhaps provide a distraction to some gangsters in the field, just a couple small non-combat things.

In the following movie, with the actor aged lending credibility tot he length of his training, he could suit up for some small field support roles, to batman's shagrin, since Batman would, logically, be training a replacement, not a partner...

 

[El Payaso]

Man... you actually think you're making sense don't you? I don't see sarcasm, I just see gibberish.

So... no actual answer?

If Robin is not going to be Batman successor then why is he there for? Alfred on the other hand is not going to be Batman successor by any means.

Nobody wants to get rid of Batman, but he's supposed to die one day as he's human. Then, the much younger Robin goes on. That's the only way I could eventually think as Robin having a point.

 

[GL1]

So... no actual answer?

If Robin is not going to be Batman successor then why is he there for? Alfred on the other hand is not going to be Batman successor by any means.

Nobody wants to get rid of Batman, but he's supposed to die one day as he's human. Then, the much younger Robin goes on. That's the only way I could eventually think as Robin having a point.

Robin's a supporitng cast member... he serves several puproses, one of which is as a successor/apprentice/whatever. What is Alfred there for? Or Jim?

You say "Thus why Robin is totally unnecessary" and then explain a use for Robin... it's hard to really take you seriously when you contradict yourself and reliably apply a double standard of usefulness to Robin.

 

[El Payaso]

Robin's a supporitng cast member... he serves several puproses, one of which is as a successor/apprentice/whatever. What is Alfred there for? Or Jim?

You say "Thus why Robin is totally unnecessary" and then explain a use for Robin... it's hard to really take you seriously when you contradict yourself and reliably apply a double standard of usefulness to Robin.

I said he's totally unnecessary once - and just because - you said "The idea of Robin replacing Batman by being Robin is a bit of a stretch... and it gets rid of Batman, the best part of the franchise." Now you go "Robin (...) serves several puproses, one of which is as a successor"

The Invisiboy's original post said he'd replace Batman when "everyone is led to believe that Batman has been killed" which makes Robin a successor (even when eventually they'll find out that Batman's alive.) Now Robin being a successor to Batman means he will replace Batman so I must say, it's hard to really take you seriously when you contradict yourself and reliably apply a double standard of usefulness to Robin.

And Alfred, like Jim Gordon helps Batman in his mission, which makes already a useless character of Robin. But as I said, Robin being a successor is "the only way I could eventually think as Robin having a point"

There's a lot of other reasons why I think of Robin as a useless character but it's funny how I defend his usefulness better than you.

 

[Victarion]

The closest I wanna see to Robin is Bruce taking in an orphan. Adopting as a way of growing as a character, to show him becoming more responsible.

 

[Katsuro]

And Alfred, like Jim Gordon helps Batman in his mission, which makes already a useless character of Robin. But as I said, Robin being a successor is "the only way I could eventually think as Robin having a point"

So wait, Robin is useless because Alfred and Jim already serve the purpose of helping Batman? Couldn't that logic be applied toe ither Alfred or Jim, since if one's there to help Batman, you dont need the other? That's ridiculous. Sure, they all help Batman, but they all help him in their own ways. That doens't make either one of them useless. I supposed Leslie Thompkins is useless, isn't she? Lucius Fox?

Great way to take these important characters and shorten their roles down to "helps Batman".

 

[El Payaso]

So wait, Robin is useless because Alfred and Jim already serve the purpose of helping Batman? Couldn't that logic be applied toe ither Alfred or Jim, since if one's there to help Batman, you dont need the other? That's ridiculous. Sure, they all help Batman, but they all help him in their own ways. That doens't make either one of them useless. I supposed Leslie Thompkins is useless, isn't she? Lucius Fox?

Great way to take these important characters and shorten their roles down to "helps Batman".

Yeah, each one does help Batman, but neither Alfred, Gordon, Thompkins or Fox has to be Batman's 8 y.o. adopted son in red and green tights in order to do so.

 

[GL1]

I said he's totally unnecessary once - and just because - you said "The idea of Robin replacing Batman by being Robin is a bit of a stretch... and it gets rid of Batman, the best part of the franchise." Now you go "Robin (...) serves several puproses, one of which is as a successor"

The Invisiboy's original post said he'd replace Batman when "everyone is led to believe that Batman has been killed" which makes Robin a successor (even when eventually they'll find out that Batman's alive.) Now Robin being a successor to Batman means he will replace Batman so I must say, it's hard to really take you seriously when you contradict yourself and reliably apply a double standard of usefulness to Robin.

And Alfred, like Jim Gordon helps Batman in his mission, which makes already a useless character of Robin. But as I said, Robin being a successor is "the only way I could eventually think as Robin having a point"

There's a lot of other reasons why I think of Robin as a useless character but it's funny how I defend his usefulness better than you.

I know plenty of people that can out-talk me... hardly makes them right, just clever. That said, Robin does serve the purpose of being an apprentice and eventual successor when Batman's alive. I still disagree with the concept of "Batman's dead so I'll be... ROBIN!" It's still a stretch.

And Dick Grayson, like Alfred and Jim Gordon and Lucious Fox and Leslie Thompkins, helps Batman in his mission. I don't see what his variable age and optional costume change that, or make him fundamentally different from the rest of Batman's supporting cast.

 

[El Payaso]

I know plenty of people that can out-talk me... hardly makes them right, just clever. That said, Robin does serve the purpose of being an apprentice and eventual successor when Batman's alive. I still disagree with the concept of "Batman's dead so I'll be... ROBIN!" It's still a stretch.

And Dick Grayson, like Alfred and Jim Gordon and Lucious Fox and Leslie Thompkins, helps Batman in his mission. I don't see what his variable age and optional costume change that, or make him fundamentally different from the rest of Batman's supporting cast.

His age makes Batman as corrupter of minors. His age makes him an u believable perfect skilled sidekick. Robin somehow is trained to fight crime with 2 years of training at 10 y.o.? Can't buy that. Not to mention Robin and his age makes Batman a Bat-father which stinks as he's a loner and doesn't have the time or interest in having a family and being resposible to raise a kid.

 

[GL1]

I say: "variable age"
You say: "10 y.o."

I say: "helps Batman in his mission" and "supporting cast"
You say: "[un]believable perfect skilled fighter"

Who are you arguing with, Payaso? Because that *isn't* a response to my post... it just isn't.

Yes, in the past Batman has been a corrupter of minors and a Bat-father. But the title of this thread is "Adapting Robin." What does the word adapting mean to you?

 

[SimpleHero82]

Hey all!
So I'm one of those kids who since the first Batman Begins website appeared which showed the batmobile and batman sitting all depressed has been checking this site daily for updates and all that good stuff. I finally registered!!!!!! Whoo lol.

So I had a dream last night that to go along with Nolan's style and if Robin was to be incorporated it would have to be done like so:

Basically Dick Grayson needs to become Robin on his own, without Batman's guidance, at least initially. His parents need to be killed by someone and Dick Grayson (sort of like Spidey in Raimi's films) needs to create a sort of costume on his own and begin to avenge their death from his apt or home where he's staying, going under the name of Robin.

Batman sees this happening and Dick could have even used Batman as an idol. But they eventually end up joining forces somehow... this i have yet to figure out how maybe you guys can help. But If Robin emerges on his own initially I think the bond between him and Bats would be better and more on a equal partner relationship benefitting from one another instead of batman always controlling robin. Just a dream I had heh.

Let me know what you guys think.

 

[GL1]

I think Robin kinda needs to grow into being his own man... like all other young men... the idea of a teenager, no matter how traumatic his parent's death or how natural and athlete or detective... the idea of him being "equal partners" with Batman is impossible to believe. A kid will never be 'equal partners' with an adult... neither will an 'eightteen year old' with vastly less experience,training and money... and probably motivation.

That said, there is value to making the relatinship equally beneficial... and not with Robin 'softening up' Batman either. That's crap from the 60's. Robin serves Batman as a scout or peon in his war on Crime, just as Batman serves Robin as a mentor and such, just like an master-apprentice relationship. On a subtler level Batman provides Robin with direction and purpose... and challenge. Robin on the other hand provides Batman with a concrete point of introspection, as well as unique insights...

And for those who have trouble imagining doing these things out of costume replace the words "Robin" above with "Dick Grayson"

 

[wellsy]

Alright - I'm no expert, but heres my take on the character and what I think would be a good adaptation.

At the end of one movie, his parents are killed by Tony Zucco as they help Batman save the city. Bruce, empathising with the boy, and feeling partially responsible for their deaths, takes him in. Dick Grayson is about 10 or 11 years old.

The next movie occurs about 2 years later. Grayson follows Batman and attempts to be like him, taking up martial arts, as well as maintaining his natural atheletcism that he picked up from his parents. He goes out to try and emulate his hero, but gets his arse handed to him (naturally). Batman comes in and tells him that he doesn't want the life of the crime fighting vigilante. Dick tells him to get lost in as many words, and returns to Wayne manor. He eventually finds out the Bruce is Batman (hes been tracking Bats for 2 years - detective skills and a convenient (as in dramatically) coincidence are all he needs to join the dots). By this time, Zucco has become a powerful crime boss, and has managed to elude Batman and GCPD for some time (I was tempted to have him become Black Mask, but I wasn't willing to make such a radical change to the established canon).

As Batman goes after him, Zucco, who suspects Batman is coming, sets a trap. Grayson realises that there is a trap, and manages to track Batman and get him out of the trap (while leaving the punching, kicking et. al to Batman, he does act as a distraction; this will be hard though, as it could easily become a bad bad joke). Zucco tries to run, and its Grayson that catches up with him, and gives him quite a socking (martial arts for two years, remember?).

After this, he says hes "moved on" from vengeance (much like at the end of BB), and Batman agrees to train him more (including eventually, field training).

Thats pretty much how I'd see it progressing. And while I know it doesn't seem right for a 12 or 13 year old to be beating the snot out of older (and undeniably larger) men, if he learns to use his advantages of speed, agility and flexibility, he can win. Also, I feel that Robin does need to be younger to begin with in order to be the squire/apprentice of the Dark Knight (its a historical accuracy, I do believe). I know this debate has been had before, but that is my take on the character.

I also wanted to adhere a bit to the notion that if you want to teach a child to swim, throw them into the sea (thats from Dune, for those who don't know).

Just my two cents. Opinions?

 

[Drizzle]

If Robin is in one of the Nolan sequels, I want to see this scene in there...

http://www.dvdactive.com/news/releases/300.html

 

[Mr. Socko]

LOL!


I hope Robin is never in another Batman movie.

 

[wellsy]

LOL!


I hope Robin is never in another Batman movie.

Ever thought of reading the first post?

Didn't think so.

And as for the scene - yeah sure, and why don't we throw in how Alfred did the same with Bruce . I pity da fool!

*Shakes head at his own trolling*

And now for something a bit more constructive...

Thinking about it, to me, the reason that Batman takes on any sidekicks at all is to get it out of them while they're young. Batman is, and always will be, the ultimate loner. To him, its a necessary concession to protect the sidekick(s) by allowing them to help him, in order to show them that they really DON'T want that life.

This, of course backfires (Dick Grayson becoming Nightwing), but he still tries (you know, you rail against the night, not that it'll change anything).

Thats just how I see the relationship between Batman and any sidekicks (Robin, Batgirl, Nightwing mainly).

And in that, is where I see a good story.

 

[madchild]

i would skip the whole robin phase. bring him in as a 15-16 year old who's lost his parents, Bruce takes him in, he turns into a scout for Batman (wearing a ninja costume?), for the third movie where he gets all the training to deal with anger etc, by the end of the 4th he's evolved into Nightwing

the whole Robin thing is all a bit too gay, Batman Forever proved that

 

[DangerousInc.]

I hate Robin and hope they keep him out of it but for some reason I reckon he'll be in the 3rd.

 

[wellsy]

I hate Robin and hope they keep him out of it but for some reason I reckon he'll be in the 3rd.

*Sighs*

Read the first post you nitwit.

 

[Mr. Socko]

We can post whatever we want. You see, this thread is about Robin, and if we feel Robin shouldn't be in this series, we have a right to say so. You think just because the original poster says "don't post anything negative about Robin", that we can't? The OP must be trying to run a totalitarian board. That's like me making a thread asking people's opinions on Batman & Robin then saying "You can't post anything negative in here." This thread is about adapting Robin, we have a right to say whether, why, or how he can be adapted. Again, this is not a totalitarian community.

 

[fireinflight]

Thanks for starting this thread. I've actually been chewing on this myself.

- I think I would start with Dick Grayson. I don't like the idea of combining all of the Robins for one character. If it's possible to be authentic while taking creative liberties, that's the path the director should go.

- In terms of costume...I know people are going to think I'm CRAZY (and perhaps someone might have mentioned this before), but I think a 'goth' type Robin would work extremely well. I'm thinking of something VERY dramatic but not over-the-top (let's be real, a sleep mask and tussled hair isn't going to trick anybody).

- I think a cape or long coat would work if done in goth style. I'm thinking elements of Blade could make this work.

- Robin was created for two reasons - 1) to tone down the comic and 2) give Batman someone to talk/relate to. Think about it...a kid will tone down A LOT! With that being said, I think a late teenage Robin would be as young as I would go.

- I think the villain should be the worst of the worst, in hopes of undermining Robin's competence. I imagine something happening where Robin's decisions or deficiencies compromise a "mission" or something (think Batman and Robin), and Batman is seriously forced to question whether or not teaming up with a kid was the right and responsible thing to do. Ultimately Robin will prove himself and convince Batman he is more than capable of holding his own. I'm not suggesting that Robin should be overzealous, rather there should be a villain that immediately gets the best of him on his BEST day. I think The Joker or Ra's would work well.

- I really have NO idea who to cast.

 

[wellsy]

First, this topic is NOT about whether Robin should be introduced. We've gone over that many times and I've made a new thread to keep that stuff out of here. To do otherwise is to demonstrate that you are either a jerk, a simpleton, or a pissflap.

...

Again, if you really are against including Robin then please use this thread to explain how you'd make the best of the decision rather than just opposing it

Straight from the horse's mouth Socko. This is a thread for speculation of how Robin should be done, not whether he should be included. The latter is an argument undoubtedly done to death.

I will say it again - this thread is speculative. If you don't want Robin, or have no constructive criticism or ideas to offer, then hold off on the posts please.

And finally, please do read the first post; it helps if we stay on in the spirit of the thread.

fire, thats not to shabby. It could, however, do with a bit of fleshing out.

And I just realised that I didn't post an idea for a costume either. It was suggested earlier that he be put in ninja gear, and thats the avenue I'd go for.

 

[Mr. Socko]

In the words of Michael Caine, "damn fascist pigs"

 

[Ixion]

I thought Dark Victory did a good job of introducing Robin in quite a dark Batman story, its certainly one of the best Batman books out there. Follow the Robin origin fairly close to that and I think he could work. You might not even have to show Dick in the Robin costume, have Bruce take him in, reveal his secret and Dick maybe helps out someway towards the end of a film and leave it open to interpretation what will happen after the film ends, we can all assume he'll go on to become Robin but it doesn't have to be shown.